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How can a php ng ban HTML tags posts?

I joined this ng and tried to post my first message that had a small php
code (HTML and all).

my newsserver aioe.net rejected the post saying "HTML Tags".

My message was in text format, not in html format, but it obviously had
html tags.

Now, a php or a perl/ cgi or a javascript ng is always going to had html
tags in posted messages. What is the point in not allowing Html tags?

admin of aioe.news.helpdesk says "
--
there're many stupid spammers that include an html message inside a
plain test message as an attemp to cheat some old and buggy newsreader
(notably some ancient version of OE).

the server rejects every message that include a couple of html tags (things
like:

<html>
<body>
</body>
</hml>

it's sounds like a false positive
--
"

Anyway, I went to googlegroups interface and posted successfully and
this ng's server didn't mind accepting that post.

Still, someone needs to convince the same to aioe admin and to other ng
servers who are having such restrictions.

Thanks.
--
V
Aug 8 '08 #1
17 1603

V S Rawat schreef:
I joined this ng and tried to post my first message that had a small php
code (HTML and all).

my newsserver aioe.net rejected the post saying "HTML Tags".

My message was in text format, not in html format, but it obviously had
html tags.

Now, a php or a perl/ cgi or a javascript ng is always going to had html
tags in posted messages. What is the point in not allowing Html tags?

admin of aioe.news.helpdesk says "
--
there're many stupid spammers that include an html message inside a
plain test message as an attemp to cheat some old and buggy newsreader
(notably some ancient version of OE).

the server rejects every message that include a couple of html tags (things
like:

<html>
<body>
</body>
</hml>

it's sounds like a false positive
--
"

Anyway, I went to googlegroups interface and posted successfully and
this ng's server didn't mind accepting that post.

Still, someone needs to convince the same to aioe admin and to other ng
servers who are having such restrictions.

Thanks.
Hi,

Dropping messages that contain <htmlor whatever is totally stupid.
How can you talk with people about webprogramming if these morons drop
any message with such content?

Simply ask them that question. I wonder how they respond. :P

admin of aioe.news.helpdesk /dev/null

Get a real ISP and your problem is over.
And please don't use googlegroups.
I drop all messages from there right away, too much spam and noobs.

Regards,
Erwin Moller

--
============================
Erwin Moller
Now dropping all postings from googlegroups.
Why? http://improve-usenet.org/
============================
Aug 8 '08 #2
On 8/8/2008 9:17 PM India Time, _Erwin Moller_ wrote:
V S Rawat schreef:
>I joined this ng and tried to post my first message that had a small php
code (HTML and all).

my newsserver aioe.net rejected the post saying "HTML Tags".

My message was in text format, not in html format, but it obviously had
html tags.

Now, a php or a perl/ cgi or a javascript ng is always going to had html
tags in posted messages. What is the point in not allowing Html tags?

admin of aioe.news.helpdesk says "
--
there're many stupid spammers that include an html message inside a
plain test message as an attemp to cheat some old and buggy newsreader
(notably some ancient version of OE).

the server rejects every message that include a couple of html tags (things
like:

<html>
<body>
</body>
</hml>

it's sounds like a false positive
--
"

Anyway, I went to googlegroups interface and posted successfully and
this ng's server didn't mind accepting that post.

Still, someone needs to convince the same to aioe admin and to other ng
servers who are having such restrictions.

Thanks.

Hi,

Dropping messages that contain <htmlor whatever is totally stupid.
How can you talk with people about webprogramming if these morons drop
any message with such content?

Simply ask them that question. I wonder how they respond. :P

admin of aioe.news.helpdesk /dev/null

Get a real ISP and your problem is over.
And please don't use googlegroups.
I drop all messages from there right away, too much spam and noobs.

Regards,
Erwin Moller
I have wrote to them.

http://news.aioe.org/webnews.php?zz=....helpdesk#3947
The admin guy is good, sensible, hardworking. He is responsive.

Above all, he is offering a free ng read/ post service.
--
V
Aug 8 '08 #3

V S Rawat schreef:
On 8/8/2008 9:17 PM India Time, _Erwin Moller_ wrote:
>V S Rawat schreef:
>>I joined this ng and tried to post my first message that had a small
php code (HTML and all).

my newsserver aioe.net rejected the post saying "HTML Tags".

My message was in text format, not in html format, but it obviously
had html tags.

Now, a php or a perl/ cgi or a javascript ng is always going to had
html tags in posted messages. What is the point in not allowing Html
tags?

admin of aioe.news.helpdesk says "
--
there're many stupid spammers that include an html message inside a
plain test message as an attemp to cheat some old and buggy
newsreader (notably some ancient version of OE).

the server rejects every message that include a couple of html tags
(things
like:

<html>
<body>
</body>
</hml>

it's sounds like a false positive
--
"

Anyway, I went to googlegroups interface and posted successfully and
this ng's server didn't mind accepting that post.

Still, someone needs to convince the same to aioe admin and to other
ng servers who are having such restrictions.

Thanks.

Hi,

Dropping messages that contain <htmlor whatever is totally stupid.
How can you talk with people about webprogramming if these morons drop
any message with such content?

Simply ask them that question. I wonder how they respond. :P

admin of aioe.news.helpdesk /dev/null

Get a real ISP and your problem is over.
And please don't use googlegroups.
I drop all messages from there right away, too much spam and noobs.

Regards,
Erwin Moller

I have wrote to them.

http://news.aioe.org/webnews.php?zz=....helpdesk#3947

The admin guy is good, sensible, hardworking. He is responsive.

Above all, he is offering a free ng read/ post service.
Ok. I read your message.
That guy can be a hard worker, nice guy, etc, his news/usenet setup is
simple below standard if he ditches anything containing html tags.

But you wrote that to him, so we'll have to see if he fixes it for you.

Regards,
Erwin Moller

--
============================
Erwin Moller
Now dropping all postings from googlegroups.
Why? http://improve-usenet.org/
============================
Aug 8 '08 #4
I joined this ng and tried to post my first message that had a small
php code (HTML and all).

my newsserver aioe.net rejected the post saying "HTML Tags".

My message was in text format, not in html format, but it obviously
had html tags.

Now, a php or a perl/ cgi or a javascript ng is always going to had
html tags in posted messages. What is the point in not allowing Html
tags?
admin of aioe.news.helpdesk says "
--
there're many stupid spammers that include an html message inside a
plain test message as an attemp to cheat some old and buggy newsreader
(notably some ancient version of OE).

the server rejects every message that include a couple of html tags
(things like:

<html>
<body>
</body>
</hml>

it's sounds like a false positive
--
"

Anyway, I went to googlegroups interface and posted successfully and
this ng's server didn't mind accepting that post.

Still, someone needs to convince the same to aioe admin and to other
ng servers who are having such restrictions.

Thanks.
Just a short note: If you're using aloe to get comp.lang.php, it is
still available through Verizon. Comp.* is one of the "big 8" that they
kept.

That sounds kind of dumb of aloe; hope your questions get some results.

HTH
Twayne
Aug 8 '08 #5
In our last episode, <ZJ2nk.581$7N1.81@trnddc06>, the lovely and talented
Twayne broadcast on comp.lang.php:
>I joined this ng and tried to post my first message that had a small
php code (HTML and all).

my newsserver aioe.net rejected the post saying "HTML Tags".
That sounds kind of dumb of aloe; hope your questions get some results.
As you can see from the headers, aieo.net does not ban code fragments.

<h1>This is a code fragment</h1>
<p><?php some routine to get some text here ?></p>

<div>

<img src="http://www.example.com/mypr0nprombanner.gif">

</div>

just those that trigger html rendering in broken old browsers.

There is no need to post whole documents, so this a classic
user problem that doesn't really exist.

--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/us****@larseighner.com
This would be the best of all possible worlds,
if there were no religions in it. -- John Adams
Aug 8 '08 #6
..oO(Lars Eighner)
>In our last episode,
<g7**********@aioe.org>,
the lovely and talented V S Rawat
broadcast on comp.lang.php:
I thought it was called introductory _line_. My fault ...
>I joined this ng and tried to post my first message that had a small php
code (HTML and all).
>my newsserver aioe.net rejected the post saying "HTML Tags".

aioe.net is a free service. If you don't like their policies, find another
server --- you could pay for service.
I recommend individual.net.
>the server rejects every message that include a couple of html tags (things
like:
>><html>
<body>
</body>
</hml>

SO? There is no need to post whole documents to any help group, especially
as HTML, BODY, and HEAD tags are complete optional in HTML 4.
There's no need to strip such tags from a plain text document either.
It's perfectly OK to reject HTML attachments and many news servers do
that, but it's totally braindead to reject plain text postings just
because they contain some tags. If that should really be the case here,
then even "free service" is absolutely no excuse for such stupidity.

And sometimes there's very well a reason to post a full and valid HTML
document, even though a URL would usually be better.

Micha
Aug 8 '08 #7
grr wrote:
On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 01:50:06 +0200, Michael Fesser <ne*****@gmx.dewrote:
>There's no need to strip such tags from a plain text document either.
It's perfectly OK to reject HTML attachments and many news servers do
that, but it's totally braindead to reject plain text postings just
because they contain some tags

If the post contains HTML tags then it isnt plain text.

Like the man said - use a different forum if you dont like that one.

Wrong. Whether a post contains html tags or not is immaterial. It is
the Content-Type header which determines whether it is plain text or not.

A plain text post can contain html tags <b>like this</bwhich will be
ignored by news readers.

New servers should be looking at the content-type header - perhaps his
news reader was setting the wrong content-type.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attglobal.net
==================

Aug 9 '08 #8
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
grr wrote:
>On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 01:50:06 +0200, Michael Fesser <ne*****@gmx.de>
wrote:
>>There's no need to strip such tags from a plain text document either.
It's perfectly OK to reject HTML attachments and many news servers do
that, but it's totally braindead to reject plain text postings just
because they contain some tags

If the post contains HTML tags then it isnt plain text.

Like the man said - use a different forum if you dont like that one.


Wrong. Whether a post contains html tags or not is immaterial. It is
the Content-Type header which determines whether it is plain text or not.

A plain text post can contain html tags <b>like this</bwhich will be
ignored by news readers.

New servers should be looking at the content-type header - perhaps his
news reader was setting the wrong content-type.
Looking at the OPs message source, it is text/plain.

So it looks like needless filtering on the news servers part as Jerry
and others have pointed out. Plain text is plain text.

<h1>This not a heading in plain text</h1>

Jeff
>
Aug 9 '08 #9
Jeff wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>grr wrote:
>>On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 01:50:06 +0200, Michael Fesser <ne*****@gmx.de>
wrote:

There's no need to strip such tags from a plain text document either.
It's perfectly OK to reject HTML attachments and many news servers do
that, but it's totally braindead to reject plain text postings just
because they contain some tags

If the post contains HTML tags then it isnt plain text.

Like the man said - use a different forum if you dont like that one.


Wrong. Whether a post contains html tags or not is immaterial. It is
the Content-Type header which determines whether it is plain text or not.

A plain text post can contain html tags <b>like this</bwhich will be
ignored by news readers.

New servers should be looking at the content-type header - perhaps his
news reader was setting the wrong content-type.

Looking at the OPs message source, it is text/plain.

So it looks like needless filtering on the news servers part as Jerry
and others have pointed out. Plain text is plain text.

<h1>This not a heading in plain text</h1>

Jeff
>>
Yes, the one which was posted was plain text. But we don't know about
the one which was rejected, do we?

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attglobal.net
==================

Aug 9 '08 #10
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
Jeff wrote:
>Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>grr wrote:
On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 01:50:06 +0200, Michael Fesser <ne*****@gmx.de>
wrote:

There's no need to strip such tags from a plain text document either.
It's perfectly OK to reject HTML attachments and many news servers do
that, but it's totally braindead to reject plain text postings just
because they contain some tags

If the post contains HTML tags then it isnt plain text.

Like the man said - use a different forum if you dont like that one.

Wrong. Whether a post contains html tags or not is immaterial. It
is the Content-Type header which determines whether it is plain text
or not.

A plain text post can contain html tags <b>like this</bwhich will
be ignored by news readers.

New servers should be looking at the content-type header - perhaps
his news reader was setting the wrong content-type.

Looking at the OPs message source, it is text/plain.

So it looks like needless filtering on the news servers part as
Jerry and others have pointed out. Plain text is plain text.

<h1>This not a heading in plain text</h1>

Jeff
>>>

Yes, the one which was posted was plain text. But we don't know about
the one which was rejected, do we?
You are right.

Jeff
>
Aug 9 '08 #11
grr wrote:
On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 10:43:13 -0400, Jerry Stuckle <js*******@attglobal.net>
wrote:
>Wrong. Whether a post contains html tags or not is immaterial. It is
the Content-Type header which determines whether it is plain text or not.

A plain text post can contain html tags <b>like this</bwhich will be
ignored by news readers.

No

A FILE can be plain text if it contains tags.

Once you submit that to any engine capable of running code the tags are code
and therefore the file cannot any longer be considered plain text.

The ISP is right to reject the post if it isn't embedded safely in some sort of
wrapper.

The content type header is an indicator it says what it thinks the content is
but does nothing to make it so.

Function overrides semantics in other words.
Incorrect. The generating news client inserts a Content-Type header
before sending it to the posting news server. And any responsible news
reader will pay attention to the content type.

There is a reason the Content-Type header is the ruler - for instance,
you might have <h1>html tags</h1in a plain text file. These should
not be parsed in a plain text file. Any newsreader which does is in
violation of the RFC's.

I suggest you study up on the headers and what they really mean.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attglobal.net
==================

Aug 9 '08 #12
On 8/10/2008 12:01 AM India Time, _Jerry Stuckle_ wrote:
Jeff wrote:
>Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>grr wrote:
On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 01:50:06 +0200, Michael Fesser <ne*****@gmx.de>
wrote:

There's no need to strip such tags from a plain text document either.
It's perfectly OK to reject HTML attachments and many news servers do
that, but it's totally braindead to reject plain text postings just
because they contain some tags
If the post contains HTML tags then it isnt plain text.

Like the man said - use a different forum if you dont like that one.
Wrong. Whether a post contains html tags or not is immaterial. It is
the Content-Type header which determines whether it is plain text or not.

A plain text post can contain html tags <b>like this</bwhich will be
ignored by news readers.

New servers should be looking at the content-type header - perhaps his
news reader was setting the wrong content-type.
Looking at the OPs message source, it is text/plain.

So it looks like needless filtering on the news servers part as Jerry
and others have pointed out. Plain text is plain text.

<h1>This not a heading in plain text</h1>

Jeff

Yes, the one which was posted was plain text. But we don't know about
the one which was rejected, do we?
And why exactly would one do it - sending an html message to clp thru
aioe so that it gets rejected, and then sending a plain text message to
clp thru googlegroups so that it gets posted, and then crying his heart
out at aioe-helpdesk and clp that his post got rejected????

--
V
Aug 9 '08 #13
V S Rawat wrote:
On 8/10/2008 12:01 AM India Time, _Jerry Stuckle_ wrote:
>Jeff wrote:
>>Jerry Stuckle wrote:
grr wrote:
On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 01:50:06 +0200, Michael Fesser <ne*****@gmx.de>
wrote:
>
>There's no need to strip such tags from a plain text document either.
>It's perfectly OK to reject HTML attachments and many news servers do
>that, but it's totally braindead to reject plain text postings just
>because they contain some tags
If the post contains HTML tags then it isnt plain text.
>
Like the man said - use a different forum if you dont like that one.
>
>
Wrong. Whether a post contains html tags or not is immaterial. It
is the Content-Type header which determines whether it is plain text
or not.

A plain text post can contain html tags <b>like this</bwhich will
be ignored by news readers.

New servers should be looking at the content-type header - perhaps
his news reader was setting the wrong content-type.
Looking at the OPs message source, it is text/plain.

So it looks like needless filtering on the news servers part as
Jerry and others have pointed out. Plain text is plain text.

<h1>This not a heading in plain text</h1>

Jeff

Yes, the one which was posted was plain text. But we don't know about
the one which was rejected, do we?

And why exactly would one do it - sending an html message to clp thru
aioe so that it gets rejected, and then sending a plain text message to
clp thru googlegroups so that it gets posted, and then crying his heart
out at aioe-helpdesk and clp that his post got rejected????
Maybe because he used his newsreader to send it through aioe and his
browser to send through google groups?

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attglobal.net
==================

Aug 9 '08 #14
In our last episode, <g7**********@registered.motzarella.org>, the lovely
and talented Jerry Stuckle broadcast on comp.lang.php:
Incorrect. The generating news client inserts a Content-Type header
before sending it to the posting news server. And any responsible news
reader will pay attention to the content type.
However aioe is not worried about a responsible news reader -- they
are worried about old OLE versions which (so they say) begins rendering
HTML when it sees an <htmlor <bodytag. Because aioe runs an open
server, no one would peer with them if they were not scrupulous about
spam suppression. There are many other free servers and free web-based
USENET interface which allow posting with free registration. Aioe also
has stringent, even draconian, restrictions on cross-posting and
multi-posting. As I demonstrated by posting from aioe, aioe does not
filter posts with html fragments, even with embedded php.

Frankly I do not see what the problem is in not being able to post
a few (in HTML 4) optional tags to a help group, but if this or
any other of aioe's restrictions are too confining, someone who really
wants help should not have a problem with registering for another free
site.
There is a reason the Content-Type header is the ruler - for instance,
you might have <h1>html tags</h1in a plain text file. These should
not be parsed in a plain text file. Any newsreader which does is in
violation of the RFC's.
Which has never been regarded as an especially damning charge at MicroSoft.
I suggest you study up on the headers and what they really mean.
--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/us****@larseighner.com
"Shhh! Be vewwy, vewwy quiet! I'm hunting Muswims!"
- President Elmer Bush
Aug 10 '08 #15
Lars Eighner wrote:
In our last episode, <g7**********@registered.motzarella.org>, the lovely
and talented Jerry Stuckle broadcast on comp.lang.php:
>Incorrect. The generating news client inserts a Content-Type header
before sending it to the posting news server. And any responsible news
reader will pay attention to the content type.

However aioe is not worried about a responsible news reader -- they
are worried about old OLE versions which (so they say) begins rendering
HTML when it sees an <htmlor <bodytag. Because aioe runs an open
server, no one would peer with them if they were not scrupulous about
spam suppression. There are many other free servers and free web-based
USENET interface which allow posting with free registration. Aioe also
has stringent, even draconian, restrictions on cross-posting and
multi-posting. As I demonstrated by posting from aioe, aioe does not
filter posts with html fragments, even with embedded php.
Which makes no difference. Even the old OLE versions should not be
rendering HTML in a plain text document. Their claim show just how
little they understand usenet.

The problem with the older readers is not that they render html tags in
a plain text document. Rather, it is just the opposite - they do NOT
render html tags, even when they are in html documents.
Frankly I do not see what the problem is in not being able to post
a few (in HTML 4) optional tags to a help group, but if this or
any other of aioe's restrictions are too confining, someone who really
wants help should not have a problem with registering for another free
site.
Neither do I. Which is one reason I don't use them.
>There is a reason the Content-Type header is the ruler - for instance,
you might have <h1>html tags</h1in a plain text file. These should
not be parsed in a plain text file. Any newsreader which does is in
violation of the RFC's.

Which has never been regarded as an especially damning charge at MicroSoft.
>I suggest you study up on the headers and what they really mean.
I did say "responsible news readers" above.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attglobal.net
==================

Aug 10 '08 #16
..oO(grr)
>On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 01:50:06 +0200, Michael Fesser <ne*****@gmx.dewrote:
>>
There's no need to strip such tags from a plain text document either.
It's perfectly OK to reject HTML attachments and many news servers do
that, but it's totally braindead to reject plain text postings just
because they contain some tags

If the post contains HTML tags then it isnt plain text.
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN">
<title>Wrong!</title>
<p>This is plain text, nothing else. Otherwise you wouldn't see the
tags, but the rendered output of an HTML engine (if you should in fact
see rendered HTML, then your newsreader is broken). The posting header
doesn't mark this as HTML, so it would be just wrong to interpret it as
that. The header clearly says "text/plain" and the newsreader has to
handle it appropriately. Everything else would be a severe bug.

<p>Ignoring content-type headers and performing inappropriate content
sniffing instead may even open security holes as has been seen in IE
often enough.
>Like the man said - use a different forum if you dont like that one.
Yes, use a competent one.

Micha
Aug 10 '08 #17
..oO(Lars Eighner)
>In our last episode, <g7**********@registered.motzarella.org>, the lovely
and talented Jerry Stuckle broadcast on comp.lang.php:
>Incorrect. The generating news client inserts a Content-Type header
before sending it to the posting news server. And any responsible news
reader will pay attention to the content type.

However aioe is not worried about a responsible news reader -- they
are worried about old OLE versions which (so they say) begins rendering
HTML when it sees an <htmlor <bodytag.
Who cares? Should we all avoid images on our websites just because some
browsers might use vulnerable JPEG libraries? The users are responsible
for their software, not the server.
>Frankly I do not see what the problem is in not being able to post
a few (in HTML 4) optional tags to a help group
It makes no sense. Plain text is plain text. Stripping it for no reason
is a bug.
>There is a reason the Content-Type header is the ruler - for instance,
you might have <h1>html tags</h1in a plain text file. These should
not be parsed in a plain text file. Any newsreader which does is in
violation of the RFC's.

Which has never been regarded as an especially damning charge at MicroSoft.
Maybe the server in question is run by MS - this would explain it.

Micha
Aug 10 '08 #18

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