How about the future of PHP compared with Java?

[tenxian]

Is PHP more suitable for developing an interactive website than Java/
J2EE?

[cwdjrxyz]

On Apr 26, 2:00 am, tenxian <[e-mail]:

Is PHP more suitable for developing an interactive website than Java/
J2EE?

The question is so broad that there likely is no single correct answer
for all sorts of interactive websites. PHP has become much more
popular over recent years, and Java has become less popular. I find
PHP more easy to apply than Java in many cases, but then those who
started writing Java when it was young may often find Java code more
easy to write. Someone who comes from a background in C++ or some
other language might find it easier to use than PHP or Java. All sorts
of languages can be put on a server if the user is allowed to do so.
The main interactive site that I use written in Java is that of the
control panel for the server I use. This was of installed by the owner
of the server.

[tenxian]

On Apr 26, 3:16 pm, cwdjrxyz <[e-mail]:

On Apr 26, 2:00 am, tenxian <[e-mail]:

Is PHP more suitable for developing an interactive website than Java/
J2EE?

The question is so broad that there likely is no single correct answer
for all sorts of interactive websites. PHP has become much more
popular over recent years, and Java has become less popular. I find
PHP more easy to apply than Java in many cases, but then those who
started writing Java when it was young may often find Java code more
easy to write. Someone who comes from a background in C++ or some
other language might find it easier to use than PHP or Java. All sorts
of languages can be put on a server if the user is allowed to do so.
The main interactive site that I use written in Java is that of the
control panel for the server I use. This was of installed by the owner
of the server.

Is PHP becoming more and more popular? Any proof of that?

[Jerry Stuckle]

tenxian wrote:

On Apr 26, 3:16 pm, cwdjrxyz <[e-mail]:

>On Apr 26, 2:00 am, tenxian <[e-mail]:

>>Is PHP more suitable for developing an interactive website than Java/
J2EE?

The question is so broad that there likely is no single correct answer
for all sorts of interactive websites. PHP has become much more
popular over recent years, and Java has become less popular. I find
PHP more easy to apply than Java in many cases, but then those who
started writing Java when it was young may often find Java code more
easy to write. Someone who comes from a background in C++ or some
other language might find it easier to use than PHP or Java. All sorts
of languages can be put on a server if the user is allowed to do so.
The main interactive site that I use written in Java is that of the
control panel for the server I use. This was of installed by the owner
of the server.

Is PHP becoming more and more popular? Any proof of that?

The number of websites created in PHP vs. the number of websites created
in Java.

Also, look around. See how many hosting companies offer PHP vs. those
offering java.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attglobal.net
==================

[Piotr]

tenxian wrote:

Is PHP more suitable for developing an interactive website than Java/
J2EE?

This usually depends on the scale of the project.
Java as a language is far more mature and is better suited for big projects.
PHP still doesnt do best in very big projects (though it's improving),
but ss much easier to develop small applications with.

So if you expect to have 300+k lines of code, then I recommend Java. If
your target is small or medium site, hosted on some shared server ect.,
then you will be better off using PHP.

best regards
Piotr N

[firewoodtim]

Why limit this discussion to PHP vs Java? I program in PHP, but I
have been looking around for a different language to add to my bag of
skills, and a professor at a local college, who has experience in both
PHP and Java,tells me he is sold on .NET. He likes both C# and VB.
The problems he found with Java, he says, are "just fixed" in .NET.
Now what do you think of that?
On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:00:02 -0700 (PDT), tenxian
<hi**********@gmail.comwrote:

>Is PHP more suitable for developing an interactive website than Java/
J2EE?

[Jerry Stuckle]

Michael Vilain wrote:

In article
<56**********************************@w4g2000prd.g ooglegroups.com>,
tenxian <hi**********@gmail.comwrote:

>On Apr 26, 3:16 pm, cwdjrxyz <[e-mail]:

>>On Apr 26, 2:00 am, tenxian <[e-mail]:

Is PHP more suitable for developing an interactive website than Java/
J2EE?
The question is so broad that there likely is no single correct answer
for all sorts of interactive websites. PHP has become much more
popular over recent years, and Java has become less popular. I find
PHP more easy to apply than Java in many cases, but then those who
started writing Java when it was young may often find Java code more
easy to write. Someone who comes from a background in C++ or some
other language might find it easier to use than PHP or Java. All sorts
of languages can be put on a server if the user is allowed to do so.
The main interactive site that I use written in Java is that of the
control panel for the server I use. This was of installed by the owner
of the server.

Is PHP becoming more and more popular? Any proof of that?

How many _shared_ web hosting sites offer a Java server and application
environment? If you're paying for web space and sharing the machine
with other people, chances are you'll find php, MySQL, and perl on that
system at a minimum. When you create a page in Apache's mod_php or
mod_perl, there's no global environment to save context between pages.
Once the page is processed by the module, it's gone. You have to use
some sort of serialization (usually saving context between pages via
"sessions" which can be implemented via cookies or a table in MySQL).

I'm not that familiar with Java, but my understanding is that to run it
you use an application server (e.g. Tomcat) along with a web server and
you pretty much have the entire machine. That's great if you colocating
a box or have a virtual machine setup. It also means that someone's got
to manage it for you. I wouldn't propose such an environment to a small
shop as they'd need someone pretty high priced and hard to find to
support it. Many of the small coding projects in php don't require as
much care and feeding.

No, pretty much the same is true in Java. It isn't the language which
determines the need for sessions or cookies, it's the protocol. Java
has it's own way of handling data, but at the lowest level, it's not
that much different that PHP.

This debate is like arguing over which car is "better" (for varing
values of "better"). The Default Answer(tm) fits best here:

"That depends"

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attglobal.net
==================

[Jerry Stuckle]

firewoodtim wrote:

Why limit this discussion to PHP vs Java? I program in PHP, but I
have been looking around for a different language to add to my bag of
skills, and a professor at a local college, who has experience in both
PHP and Java,tells me he is sold on .NET. He likes both C# and VB.
The problems he found with Java, he says, are "just fixed" in .NET.
Now what do you think of that?
On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:00:02 -0700 (PDT), tenxian
<hi**********@gmail.comwrote:

>Is PHP more suitable for developing an interactive website than Java/
J2EE?

Because there are more appropriate newsgroups. And we don't need
another religious discussion here.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attglobal.net
==================

[C. (http://symcbean.blogspot.com/)]

On 26 Apr, 15:43, firewoodtim <[e-mail]:

Why limit this discussion to PHP vs Java? I program in PHP, but I
have been looking around for a different language to add to my bag of
skills, and a professor at a local college, who has experience in both
PHP and Java,tells me he is sold on .NET. He likes both C# and VB.
The problems he found with Java, he says, are "just fixed" in .NET.
Now what do you think of that?

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:00:02 -0700 (PDT), tenxian

<[e-mail]:

Is PHP more suitable for developing an interactive website than Java/
J2EE?

The problems with Java are now well-discussed in the open - so it
would be fairly easy for anyone to come along and write a better
version of the language - unfortunately Sun were encumbered with a
legacy they couldn't really walk away from.

But .NET introduces a whole set of problems on its own - Microsoft
don't really produce programming languages - they produce products.
What you can do with these products is severely constrained -
similarly what other people can help you with is also limited e.g.
http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2007/0...t_mvp_threats/ It
remains a single vendor product tied into that vendors other products.
In a number of areas Microsoft have profited from controlling access
to the product but also to information about the product; training is
now a major revenue stream for the company. They have also profited
from making their systems incompatible with those from other vendors
(witness SSL keep-alives). Endorsing this approach enforces a monopoly
position which has been proven to be abused in the past.

Java exists in a very healthy eco-system being first to market with a
fairly flexible core language with little platform dependancy.

Despite the existence of GUI widget bindings for PHP its current
memory management model is highly unsuited to desktop applications
(and that IMHO is GOOD thing). Unfortunately people still perceive
universal applicability of a language is a good thing - when really
its something of a myth. The same memory management which makes Java
work well for standalone applications undermines its effectiveness as
a web development language. Why do you think groovy, jython et al.
exist?

Similarly because Java did not wish to be too dependant on an existing
way of solving a problem, it has frequently gone off and built
byzantine and obscure but brutally 'correct' ways of doing things -
like JMS and JNDI.

Piotr wrote:

Java as a language is far more mature and is better suited for big projects.
PHP still doesnt do best in very big projects (though it's improving),

It's certainly easier to establish good programmer credentials using
Java compared with PHP. Leaving aside the issue of certification, you
simply can't write a working J2EE application unless you're a
proficient Java programmer. But it requires significantly less skill
to write a working PHP application - unfortunately the differences
will show up in terms of scalability, security and maintainability -
which are more difficult to prove than simple functionality.

I have never found any evidence to substantiate the claim that PHP is
less effective for large scale projects. IMHO the difference is due to
the fact that PHP does not have as well developed an eco-system; the
lack of namespaces is probably the main issue, but rather than finding
ways to avoid the problem (like continious integration) a great deal
of time and effort has been spent in addressing it directly.

C.