I could see lot of noise against GPL. INAL, but many articles suggest
that we cannot add GPLed software with commercial software; if we add,
the commercial software will automatically become GPLed.
So, I would like to know, if the license issue affected your
business/PHP coding work. For example, you can't simply add PHPMailer
class <http://phpmailer.sourceforge.net/>, with any of your commercial
applications. So, what would you do in that case? or Any such personal
experiences? TIA.
--
| Just another PHP saint |
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com
18  2875 
Hello,
On 07/15/2004 05:20 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote: I could see lot of noise against GPL. INAL, but many articles suggest
that we cannot add GPLed software with commercial software; if we add,
the commercial software will automatically become GPLed.
So, I would like to know, if the license issue affected your
business/PHP coding work. For example, you can't simply add PHPMailer
class <http://phpmailer.sourceforge.net/>, with any of your commercial
applications. So, what would you do in that case? or Any such personal
experiences? TIA.
That's correct. If you use a package that is license only as GPL you
only link it (call it if you prefer) with other GPL software. You may
still sell your software as GPL but I suppose that you do not want to
open the source of your commercial application.
--
Regards,
Manuel Lemos
PHP Classes - Free ready to use OOP components written in PHP http://www.phpclasses.org/
PHP Reviews - Reviews of PHP books and other products http://www.phpclasses.org/reviews/
Metastorage - Data object relational mapping layer generator http://www.meta-language.net/metastorage.html
Manuel Lemos <ml****@acm.org> wrote in message news:<2l************@uni-berlin.de>... Hello,
On 07/15/2004 05:20 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote: I could see lot of noise against GPL. INAL, but many articles suggest
that we cannot add GPLed software with commercial software; if we add,
the commercial software will automatically become GPLed.
So, I would like to know, if the license issue affected your
business/PHP coding work. For example, you can't simply add PHPMailer
class <http://phpmailer.sourceforge.net/>, with any of your commercial
applications. So, what would you do in that case? or Any such personal
experiences? TIA.
That's correct. If you use a package that is license only as GPL you
only link it (call it if you prefer) with other GPL software. You may
still sell your software as GPL but I suppose that you do not want to
open the source of your commercial application.
Thanks indeed, for your comments. I really wonder what other PHP
saints would do in those situations.
--
| Just another PHP saint |
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com
Look into the socket functions of PHP and create some POP/IMAP/SMTP
object with them... thats what I'd do...
R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote: Manuel Lemos <ml****@acm.org> wrote in message news:<2l************@uni-berlin.de>...
Hello,
On 07/15/2004 05:20 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote:
I could see lot of noise against GPL. INAL, but many articles suggest
that we cannot add GPLed software with commercial software; if we add,
the commercial software will automatically become GPLed.
So, I would like to know, if the license issue affected your
business/PHP coding work. For example, you can't simply add PHPMailer
class <http://phpmailer.sourceforge.net/>, with any of your commercial
applications. So, what would you do in that case? or Any such personal
experiences? TIA.
That's correct. If you use a package that is license only as GPL you
only link it (call it if you prefer) with other GPL software. You may
still sell your software as GPL but I suppose that you do not want to
open the source of your commercial application.
Thanks indeed, for your comments. I really wonder what other PHP
saints would do in those situations.
"Manuel Lemos" <ml****@acm.org> wrote in message
news:2l************@uni-berlin.de... Hello,
On 07/15/2004 05:20 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote: I could see lot of noise against GPL. INAL, but many articles suggest
that we cannot add GPLed software with commercial software; if we add,
the commercial software will automatically become GPLed.
So, I would like to know, if the license issue affected your
business/PHP coding work. For example, you can't simply add PHPMailer
class <http://phpmailer.sourceforge.net/>, with any of your commercial
applications. So, what would you do in that case? or Any such personal
experiences? TIA.
That's correct. If you use a package that is license only as GPL you
only link it (call it if you prefer) with other GPL software. You may
still sell your software as GPL but I suppose that you do not want to
open the source of your commercial application.
No, any GPL code you use in your program remains GPL'd, you cannot change
the licence. If you change the GPL'd code then you must release the changes
as GPL.
Nobody can force you to adopt a specific licence for code you have written,
but they can enforce the terms and conditions of modifying their own code.
As long as you keep the GPL code seperate from your own code, i.e. in a
different folder then using it with your application shouldn't be a problem.
"CJ Llewellyn" <sa****@tmslifeline.com> wrote in message news:<cd**********@slavica.ukpost.com>... "Manuel Lemos" <ml****@acm.org> wrote in message
news:2l************@uni-berlin.de... Hello,
On 07/15/2004 05:20 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote: I could see lot of noise against GPL. INAL, but many articles suggest
that we cannot add GPLed software with commercial software; if we add,
the commercial software will automatically become GPLed.
So, I would like to know, if the license issue affected your
business/PHP coding work. For example, you can't simply add PHPMailer
class <http://phpmailer.sourceforge.net/>, with any of your commercial
applications. So, what would you do in that case? or Any such personal
experiences? TIA.
That's correct. If you use a package that is license only as GPL you
only link it (call it if you prefer) with other GPL software. You may
still sell your software as GPL but I suppose that you do not want to
open the source of your commercial application.
No, any GPL code you use in your program remains GPL'd, you cannot change
the licence. If you change the GPL'd code then you must release the changes
as GPL.
Nobody can force you to adopt a specific licence for code you have written,
but they can enforce the terms and conditions of modifying their own code.
As long as you keep the GPL code seperate from your own code, i.e. in a
different folder then using it with your application shouldn't be a problem.
This idea is completely new to me. I couldn't find any source
that is related to your views. So, is it ok to use GPLed codes with
any other licensed codes? Could you cite any source to vouch your
views (please)? Also, is there anyone who share this idea? TIA
--
| Just another PHP saint |
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com
Aidan <no**********@linknet.com.au> wrote in message news:<ne********************@titan.linknet.com.au> ... Look into the socket functions of PHP and create some POP/IMAP/SMTP
object with them... thats what I'd do...
True, we can write our own functions. But, my question is: can't we
use any GPLed codes with in our applications without
changing/affecting our license model?
--
| Just another PHP saint |
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com
"R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah" <ng**********@rediffmail.com> wrote in message
news:ab**************************@posting.google.c om... "CJ Llewellyn" <sa****@tmslifeline.com> wrote in message
news:<cd**********@slavica.ukpost.com>... "Manuel Lemos" <ml****@acm.org> wrote in message
news:2l************@uni-berlin.de... Hello,
On 07/15/2004 05:20 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote:
> I could see lot of noise against GPL. INAL, but many articles
suggest > that we cannot add GPLed software with commercial software; if we
add, > the commercial software will automatically become GPLed.
>
> So, I would like to know, if the license issue affected your
> business/PHP coding work. For example, you can't simply add
PHPMailer > class <http://phpmailer.sourceforge.net/>, with any of your
commercial > applications. So, what would you do in that case? or Any such
personal > experiences? TIA.
That's correct. If you use a package that is license only as GPL you
only link it (call it if you prefer) with other GPL software. You may
still sell your software as GPL but I suppose that you do not want to
open the source of your commercial application.
No, any GPL code you use in your program remains GPL'd, you cannot
change the licence. If you change the GPL'd code then you must release the
changes as GPL.
Nobody can force you to adopt a specific licence for code you have
written, but they can enforce the terms and conditions of modifying their own
code.
As long as you keep the GPL code seperate from your own code, i.e. in a
different folder then using it with your application shouldn't be a
problem.
This idea is completely new to me. I couldn't find any source
that is related to your views. So, is it ok to use GPLed codes with
any other licensed codes? Could you cite any source to vouch your
views (please)? Also, is there anyone who share this idea? TIA
Well reading the FAQs would be a good start. You'll notice that they refer
to the GPL programs you obtain or write, not code you've written under
private copyright. http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq....prietarySystem
States
"However, in many cases you can distribute the GPL-covered software
alongside your proprietary system. To do this validly, you must make sure
that the free and non-free programs communicate at arms length, that they
are not combined in a way that would make them effectively a single
program."
i.e you keep them at arms length then it's ok.
On 18 Jul 2004 23:13:42 -0700, ng**********@rediffmail.com (R. Rajesh
Jeba Anbiah) wrote: True, we can write our own functions. But, my question is: can't we
use any GPLed codes with in our applications without
changing/affecting our license model?
That's correct, you can't use the code without affecting your licencse
if it's not already GPL
Regards
Marian
--
Tipps und Tricks zu PHP, Coaching und Projektbetreuung http://www.heddesheimer.de/coaching/
"CJ Llewellyn" <sa****@tmslifeline.com> wrote in message news:<cd**********@slavica.ukpost.com>...
<snip>
This idea is completely new to me. I couldn't find any source
that is related to your views. So, is it ok to use GPLed codes with
any other licensed codes? Could you cite any source to vouch your
views (please)? Also, is there anyone who share this idea? TIA
Well reading the FAQs would be a good start. You'll notice that they refer
to the GPL programs you obtain or write, not code you've written under
private copyright.
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq....prietarySystem
States
"However, in many cases you can distribute the GPL-covered software
alongside your proprietary system. To do this validly, you must make sure
that the free and non-free programs communicate at arms length, that they
are not combined in a way that would make them effectively a single
program."
i.e you keep them at arms length then it's ok.
But, I couldn't understand how can we use it without mixing both
the codes. Also the other paragraphs suggest that the codes cannot be
mixed.
--
| Just another PHP saint |
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com
Marian Heddesheimer <18*************@spamgourmet.com> wrote in message news:<ah********************************@4ax.com>. .. On 18 Jul 2004 23:13:42 -0700, ng**********@rediffmail.com (R. Rajesh
Jeba Anbiah) wrote:
True, we can write our own functions. But, my question is: can't we
use any GPLed codes with in our applications without
changing/affecting our license model?
That's correct, you can't use the code without affecting your licencse
if it's not already GPL
CJ Llewellyn in other thread suggests that we can use it by
"distanting" the codes. I couldn't understand how that can be done in
PHP.
--
| Just another PHP saint |
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com
"R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah" <ng**********@rediffmail.com> wrote in message
news:ab**************************@posting.google.c om... "CJ Llewellyn" <sa****@tmslifeline.com> wrote in message
news:<cd**********@slavica.ukpost.com>... <snip>
This idea is completely new to me. I couldn't find any source
that is related to your views. So, is it ok to use GPLed codes with
any other licensed codes? Could you cite any source to vouch your
views (please)? Also, is there anyone who share this idea? TIA
Well reading the FAQs would be a good start. You'll notice that they
refer to the GPL programs you obtain or write, not code you've written under
private copyright.
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq....prietarySystem
States
"However, in many cases you can distribute the GPL-covered software
alongside your proprietary system. To do this validly, you must make
sure that the free and non-free programs communicate at arms length, that
they are not combined in a way that would make them effectively a single
program."
i.e you keep them at arms length then it's ok.
But, I couldn't understand how can we use it without mixing both
the codes. Also the other paragraphs suggest that the codes cannot be
mixed.
I would view this as being ok, GNU.org would probably disagree.
include('gpl/somebody.elses.code.php');
$oSec = new cSomebodyElsesCode();
Where as this would not.
include('gpl/somebody.elses.code.php');
class cMyDerivitiveOf extends cSomebodyElsesCode {
}
From the above FAQs, you are safe with
exec('/usr/bin/php gpl/somebody.elses.code.php');
A lot will depend on the actual program itself. If your program is dependent
on GPL code to function, such as adodb as a data abstraction layer then, you
are not going to get away with using anything other than a compatible
licence.
OTH, if you are using a library to say develop a spam-a-friend feature for a
CMS then you are not dependent on the mail library being present for the
program to function.
On 19 Jul 2004 06:34:38 -0700, ng**********@rediffmail.com (R. Rajesh
Jeba Anbiah) wrote: CJ Llewellyn in other thread suggests that we can use it by
"distanting" the codes. I couldn't understand how that can be done in
PHP.
that's an exercise for the advocates ;-)
I am not a lawyer and I think they may come to different conclusions.
But it may be hard to explain a judge the concept of coding.
I personally would not rely on any of the answers given. You would be
better off, asking your lawyer before you decide for any license
model.
From the technical point (and in my opinion) there ist no such thing
as "distancing" code. How would you measure this "distance"? If you
use GPL software (i.e. your products is build upon or relies on
another piece of GPL software) your product is also GPL.
If you have code that is completely standalone (i.e. it can run
completely without the GPL code), than you can license it as you like.
In this case users of your product can combine your product with other
GPL products without problems.
For example: A tool that can be used as an add-on for Online-Shops. If
it is standalone and maybe works with several different
Shop-Applications, you may be free to use your own license. If it
works only with osCommerce, which is GPL, your tool is also GPL.
Regards
Marian
--
Tipps und Tricks zu PHP, Coaching und Projektbetreuung http://www.heddesheimer.de/coaching/
Marian Heddesheimer <18*************@spamgourmet.com> wrote in message news:<ci********************************@4ax.com>. ..
<snip> If you have code that is completely standalone (i.e. it can run
completely without the GPL code), than you can license it as you like.
In this case users of your product can combine your product with other
GPL products without problems.
For example: A tool that can be used as an add-on for Online-Shops. If
it is standalone and maybe works with several different
Shop-Applications, you may be free to use your own license. If it
works only with osCommerce, which is GPL, your tool is also GPL.
Thanks for your comments. Yes, I understand the issues with GPL. Thanks.
--
| Just another PHP saint |
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com
"CJ Llewellyn" <sa****@tmslifeline.com> wrote in message news:<cd**********@slavica.ukpost.com>...
<snip> I would view this as being ok, GNU.org would probably disagree.
include('gpl/somebody.elses.code.php');
$oSec = new cSomebodyElsesCode();
Where as this would not.
include('gpl/somebody.elses.code.php');
class cMyDerivitiveOf extends cSomebodyElsesCode {
}
From the above FAQs, you are safe with
exec('/usr/bin/php gpl/somebody.elses.code.php');
A lot will depend on the actual program itself. If your program is dependent
on GPL code to function, such as adodb as a data abstraction layer then, you
are not going to get away with using anything other than a compatible
licence.
OTH, if you are using a library to say develop a spam-a-friend feature for a
CMS then you are not dependent on the mail library being present for the
program to function.
This is bit interesting.. But IMHO, GPL is really messy:(
--
| Just another PHP saint |
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com
R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote: This is bit interesting.. But IMHO, GPL is really messy:(
I don't think it's necessarily messy - GPL just does not have specific
instructions for scripting languages. It differentiates between
object/compiled code and source code for compiled languages, linking and
derivative software, but most of those do not directly apply to PHP
scripts. If you strictly translate GPL requirements into scripting and
regard all your scripts as source, then as a developer, you are closer to
extending, linking to, or creating derivative software rather than simply
making a use of the GPLed parts/libraries/classes (unless you use
exec(command) like another poster suggested). I believe the situation is
similar to why you cannot create non-GPLed apps with GPLed Qt libraries.
IANAL, but I would agree with those who said that most uses [and subsequent
redistribution] of GPLed scripts (bar exec-type commands) would force your
whole application to be GPLed. I personally try to avoid this by making my
own packages available under LGPL and recommending others use less
restrictive licenses whenever possible.
Hopefully, the next version of the GPL will include some appropriate
provisions for scripting languages. I believe this is the plan.
The confusion over these licenses and their various flavors is really
turning at lot of people away.
I picked PHP/Mysql because it made technical sense. I paid for and
have .NET so money is not an issue with me. I am investing hard time
and effort in my project and I am not going to jepodarize its value
and future over a few bucks.
I am writing code in PHP script which will access a mysql database. I
do not intend on releasing the source of my script. And I intend on
making lots of money on my app.
I believe since I am not including PHP code in my app, I am OK with
their license.
I believe since I am not including MySql code in app, that I am also
OK with their license.
I am not distributing copies of either PHP or Mysql with my app. I am
not adding to or modifying PHP or Mysql code, nor extending.
Am I legal? If this keeps up I may just buy licenses and make the
issue go away.
Look at all the bandwidth being consumed on this issue and I've read
most of it and I am still confused!!!!! And I am not a newbie at
these matters, I have been a corporate engineer (DowJonesIndustrial)
for over 18 years!!!
Does anyone know of a post that clearly states the issues?
"CJ Llewellyn" <sa****@tmslifeline.com> wrote in message news:<cd**********@slavica.ukpost.com>... "Manuel Lemos" <ml****@acm.org> wrote in message
news:2l************@uni-berlin.de... Hello,
On 07/15/2004 05:20 AM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote: I could see lot of noise against GPL. INAL, but many articles suggest
that we cannot add GPLed software with commercial software; if we add,
the commercial software will automatically become GPLed.
So, I would like to know, if the license issue affected your
business/PHP coding work. For example, you can't simply add PHPMailer
class <http://phpmailer.sourceforge.net/>, with any of your commercial
applications. So, what would you do in that case? or Any such personal
experiences? TIA.
That's correct. If you use a package that is license only as GPL you
only link it (call it if you prefer) with other GPL software. You may
still sell your software as GPL but I suppose that you do not want to
open the source of your commercial application.
No, any GPL code you use in your program remains GPL'd, you cannot change
the licence. If you change the GPL'd code then you must release the changes
as GPL.
Nobody can force you to adopt a specific licence for code you have written,
but they can enforce the terms and conditions of modifying their own code.
As long as you keep the GPL code seperate from your own code, i.e. in a
different folder then using it with your application shouldn't be a problem.
On 20 Jul 2004 06:43:06 -0700, cl****@qualitythink.com (Bob) wrote: Am I legal? If this keeps up I may just buy licenses and make the
issue go away.
As fas as I understand GPL you are pretty much legal because you don't
use any GPL code in your applications. You just use PHP to interpret
your own code (it's more like a compiler then) and you don't
incorporate PHP code in your application. The PHP license refers only
to the source code of PHP itself.
You also use mySQL. This might be another issue because mySQL states
clearly that you must buy a licence if you product relies on a mySQL
Database server to work properly and if your product is not under GPL
license. http://www.mysql.com/products/licensing/faq.html
I have also read somewhere, that you can avoid licensing mySQL if your
application can also work with other databases (like Postgres or
MS-SQL) as well as with mySQL.
So mySQL is quite clear in their license issues.
IANAL
HTH
Marian
--
Tipps und Tricks zu PHP, Coaching und Projektbetreuung http://www.heddesheimer.de/coaching/
Marian Heddesheimer wrote: As fas as I understand GPL you are pretty much legal because you don't
use any GPL code in your applications. You just use PHP to interpret
your own code (it's more like a compiler then) and you don't
incorporate PHP code in your application. The PHP license refers only
to the source code of PHP itself.
Yes.
You also use mySQL. This might be another issue because mySQL states
clearly that you must buy a licence if you product relies on a mySQL
Database server to work properly and if your product is not under GPL
license.
http://www.mysql.com/products/licensing/faq.html
I don't think so. From that page:
"So if you use MySQL with GPL-licensed software (or a license that is
GPL-compatible) we encourage you to use the GPL license. For all other
users of MySQL, we recommend that you purchase a MySQL commercial license"
IANAL, but I think this applies to compiled programs that link to or use
[newly] GPLed MySQL client libraries. Past versions of MySQL client
libraries were LGPLed and available for closed source redistribution, but
the new ones are not - they are provided under GPL; hence that statement.
At the same time, I don't believe this applies to PHP since by writing PHP
scripts you are not directly linking to or using MySQL libraries. I believe
this is true of all databases (and other extensions) - you don't accept MS
SQL Server or Oracle library EULAs by simply writing and distributing a PHP
script that connects, queries and disconnects - you don't even need to have
them installed to do this. I think the same would apply if you used ODBC
libraries/drivers - it's an extra layer but the circumstances are similar.
Or am I wrong? This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics
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