When to quote?

[battle.chris]

Hi.

Our development team has been offered a project that's far bigger than
anything we've done previously.

The client wants time estimates and quotes, but has only provided a
fairly brief outline of requirements. My question is: how do we address
this? Should we make a best guess? Quote for the development of a
function spec, then quote on the project once it's been completed?

Thanks.

[Bosconian]

<ba**********@gmail.comwrote in message
news:11*********************@f16g2000cwb.googlegro ups.com...

Hi.

Our development team has been offered a project that's far bigger than
anything we've done previously.

The client wants time estimates and quotes, but has only provided a
fairly brief outline of requirements. My question is: how do we address
this? Should we make a best guess? Quote for the development of a
function spec, then quote on the project once it's been completed?

Thanks.

As the developer it's your responsibility to probe the client for all the
necessary information you need to put together an accurate bid. If they are
unable or unwilling to go through this process then avoid them like the
plague, but more than likely they lack the technical expertise to provide
anything more than a general outline of the requirements.

For bigger projects it's not unusual to ask the prospective client for a
lump sum to cover the costs of this preliminary investigative process, as
the information you ultimately provide them will have great value.

[Erwin Moller]

ba**********@gmail.com wrote:

Hi.

Our development team has been offered a project that's far bigger than
anything we've done previously.

The client wants time estimates and quotes, but has only provided a
fairly brief outline of requirements. My question is: how do we address
this? Should we make a best guess? Quote for the development of a
function spec, then quote on the project once it's been completed?

Thanks.

Hi

My 2 cents:

If you have a client like that you are in risk of producing something that
is not what they want. That is trouble.

In most cases the client don't know excactly what they want and need your
help to form their own opinion.

How I approach this: Make a rude estimate of the project, confirm that it
will cost them 20.000 plus or minus 25%. And tell them you EXPECT that at
least one person will be available to make quick decisions during
development.
In that way you can get the job, AND make sure the endproduct will be what
they want.
It also helps a lot to put one day time into it and produce a raw HTML
version that doesn't work, but show the process to the client in big lines.
(Like, here you can log in, this is what you see if you click XXX, etc)
It helps the client to form their opinion.

In case you don't trust them, and they will not help during development,
think twice before taking the job.
I NEVER develop stuff anymore without expecting the client the look over my
shoulder during development.

Just my 2 cent.

Best of luck!

Regards,
Erwin Moller

[Krustov]

<comp.lang.php>
<>
<27 Nov 2006 17:17:50 -0800>
<11*********************@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups. com>

Our development team has been offered a project that's far bigger than
anything we've done previously.

The client wants time estimates and quotes, but has only provided a
fairly brief outline of requirements.

Thats a bit like walking into a car showroom and asking how much a car
is without actually saying what model your interested in .

Unless they are willing to give you accurate details of what they do or
dont want - then walk away - for that sort of client is often more
trouble than they are worth .
--
www.phpwhois.co.uk

[Shelly]

"Krustov" <[e-mail] in message
news:MP************************@news.newsreader.co m...

<comp.lang.php>
<>
<27 Nov 2006 17:17:50 -0800>
<11*********************@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups. com>

>Our development team has been offered a project that's far bigger than
anything we've done previously.

The client wants time estimates and quotes, but has only provided a
fairly brief outline of requirements.

Thats a bit like walking into a car showroom and asking how much a car
is without actually saying what model your interested in .

Unless they are willing to give you accurate details of what they do or
dont want - then walk away - for that sort of client is often more
trouble than they are worth .

I agree. Did you ever see "Johnny Dangerously"? Well, I was caught in that
trap once. ONCE!

The worst thing you can do is to promise them delivery on a poorly designed
spec. They will come back later with "Oh, that was supposed to be in Phase
I, not Phase II". You won't have anything in writing and so you will either
have to eat it or fight to get paid for Phase I.

The project that taught me this lesson was my first with PHP. My son sold
it very cheaply. I figured that it would take a certain amount of time and
I would wind up getting paid about $10 and hour -- but it was a learning
experience so that was OK. Normally, I would get between $40 and $60.
Well, it kept growing and growing and growing because we didn't have that
spec well defined. In the end I wound up working for $2 an hour. Of
course, that led to contracts where I started getting $60 an hour, but the
lesson was learned about clearly defining the requirements UP FRONT!

The temptation to snag the big one is great. So, I would recommend to
either demand definite requirements so that you can price it properly OR
either walk away or YOU define the requirements and overbid it somewhat. If
they buy into your statement of work in your proposal, you can always say
that this new requirement that they just foisted upon you is "out of spec"
and requires and additional fee of $X. Get it in WRITING!

One more thing, get a significant percentage up front. I try for half, but
will take as low as a quarter for a large contract.

Shelly

[CptDondo]

ba**********@gmail.com wrote:

Hi.

Our development team has been offered a project that's far bigger than
anything we've done previously.

The client wants time estimates and quotes, but has only provided a
fairly brief outline of requirements. My question is: how do we address
this? Should we make a best guess? Quote for the development of a
function spec, then quote on the project once it's been completed?

I agree with the other posters. I would also add that you allocate and
specify the number of client contact hours in the job, especially if you
think the client is unsure of the whole process. I got a really nice
job once, we bid it lump sum at 300 hours, and the post mortem showed we
did it in just about 225. Should have made a good profit. But the
client *required* over 300 hours of meetings over many days, and we had
nothing in the contract to limit that. Needless to say, we lost our ass*s.

There are very good contract books for consultants. Google for "errors
and omissions insurance". Many insurance companies have contract
handbooks you can download for free. (And don't be afraid to download
one for engineers, architects, whatever. The principles are the same.)