I'm working to convince my office to make the switch to PHP from ASP.
I've convinced them that some change needs to be made, but I think
there is some hesitation about PHP being too non-corporate. Can anyone
give examples of big companies that are using PHP for real business? I
remember hearing that Yahoo! used it, but that was several years ago.
Anything you can send would be great.
34  3509 
Nate Baxley schrieb: Can anyone give examples of big companies
that are using PHP for real business?
Electronic Arts
McAfee
UPI
T-Online
UCLA
MIT
Lycos
T-Online
Disney
HP
wallstreet online
Nate Baxley wrote: I'm working to convince my office to make the switch to PHP from ASP.
I've convinced them that some change needs to be made, but I think
there is some hesitation about PHP being too non-corporate.
How a company who is still using ASP can consider PHP as non-corporate
is laughable.
Can anyone
give examples of big companies that are using PHP for real business?
I've worked as a PHP developer since 2000. The companies I've worked
for have all been involved with "real business", which is handy since I
insist on getting paid in real money.
I remember hearing that Yahoo! used it, but that was several years ago.
Anything you can send would be great.
My current company use PHP explicitly. I can't (wont) say who we are
from this address, but +£10k per hour in business goes through our PHP
code, which runs over approx 30 servers and is used by clients in
countries all over the world, which means it deals with exotic
character sets and date/time issues too.
However, I am by no stretch suggesting that we are a big company, there
are many much larger companies using PHP.
What other platforms are you considering, what kind of application are
you developing?
You have to consider your existing developers, they're used coding
against a MS platform, PHP is very different. Also, what database(s)
are you currently using, is it easy to change?
You need to get away from ASP, that's for certain, but it might be
wiser to head for ASP.net. I suppose it depends on how much "platform
intertia" your dev team shows. http://www.w3.org http://www.apple.com/ http://www.ericsson.com/ http://www.francetelecom.com/ http://www.sony.com/
--
"Nate Baxley" <nb*****@gmail.com> ???????/???????? ? ???????? ?????????:
news:11**********************@g10g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com... I'm working to convince my office to make the switch to PHP from ASP.
I've convinced them that some change needs to be made, but I think
there is some hesitation about PHP being too non-corporate. Can anyone
give examples of big companies that are using PHP for real business? I
remember hearing that Yahoo! used it, but that was several years ago.
Anything you can send would be great.
Nate Baxley wrote: I'm working to convince my office to make the switch to PHP from ASP.
I've convinced them that some change needs to be made, but I think
there is some hesitation about PHP being too non-corporate. Can anyone
give examples of big companies that are using PHP for real business? I
remember hearing that Yahoo! used it, but that was several years ago.
Anything you can send would be great.
Yahoo! has a handful of big-name PHP developers on staff - including
Rasmus Lerdorf and Andrei Zmievski http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news...le.php/3587606 http://www.php.net/~derick/meeting-notes.html
--
Justin Koivisto, ZCE - ju****@koivi.com http://koivi.com
In article <tY******************************@onvoy.com>, ju****@koivi.com
says... Nate Baxley wrote: I'm working to convince my office to make the switch to PHP from ASP.
I've convinced them that some change needs to be made, but I think
there is some hesitation about PHP being too non-corporate. Can anyone
give examples of big companies that are using PHP for real business? I
remember hearing that Yahoo! used it, but that was several years ago.
Anything you can send would be great.
Yahoo! has a handful of big-name PHP developers on staff - including
Rasmus Lerdorf and Andrei Zmievski
http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news...le.php/3587606
http://www.php.net/~derick/meeting-notes.html
--
Justin Koivisto, ZCE - ju****@koivi.com
http://koivi.com
PHP is a high level scripting language no different from any other. You
could set up MS basic to do the same job.
Personally I'd say its backward method of defining global variable scope
on its own causes enough extra typing to make me want to look elsewhere.
PHP provides no special fuctions no special security no special features
that dont exist in any other scripting language ever invented.
It's an ok scripting language and thats about it.
If you are writing serious "applications" it shouldn't even be
considered.
There's no question that we need to get away from ASP. I've gone down
the ASP.NET road and found it very cumbersome for the work that we do.
We basically are creating lots and lots of CRUD calls for directories,
news, inventories, etc. I've used PHP in my background and was happy
with it. The Object Oriented functionality new to PHP since I used it
also has me intrigued. We are basically a MS shop currently in the
sense that our server is Windows 2003 and our DB is SQL Server.
However, all of our development is done with Dreamweaver and we're not
really tied into MS so much that we can't leave. For now I'm doing
testing with PHP on our Windows box and accessing SQL Server with
little trouble. I don't know that I want to leave SQL Server for
MySQL, although I might consider using PostgreSQL. We are a very small
shop but looking to expand. I am currently the only true programmer,
so that side of things isn't a problem. Any comments?
On Thu, 04 May 2006 18:03:23 +0000, an wrote: PHP is a high level scripting language no different from any other. You
could set up MS basic to do the same job.
Another opinion from a troll too cowardly to put his real name/email
address.
....
Andy
--
Andy Jeffries MBCS CITP ZCE | gPHPEdit Lead Developer http://www.gphpedit.org | PHP editor for Gnome 2 http://www.andyjeffries.co.uk | Personal site and photos
Nate Baxley wrote: I'm working to convince my office to make the switch to PHP from ASP.
I've convinced them that some change needs to be made, but I think
there is some hesitation about PHP being too non-corporate. Can anyone
give examples of big companies that are using PHP for real business? I
remember hearing that Yahoo! used it, but that was several years ago.
Anything you can send would be great.
What does "switching to PHP" mean exactly? Are you talking about an
intranet application or the product that your company produces?
I think you'll have a hard time finding any big business using PHP for
their mission critical systems. The best thing about using something
from Microsoft is that if things go wrong, you can always pin the blame
on Microsoft. With open source you're stuck with it. As much as I like
PHP I would never recommend it for projects where the stakes are high.
On Thu, 04 May 2006 13:25:32 -0700, Chung Leong wrote: I think you'll have a hard time finding any big business using PHP for
their mission critical systems. The best thing about using something from
Microsoft is that if things go wrong, you can always pin the blame on
Microsoft. With open source you're stuck with it. As much as I like PHP I
would never recommend it for projects where the stakes are high.
Then I think you have a deep seated issue in that you need someone to
blame when things go wrong.
When the stakes are "high" (which is a relative term from business to
business) then the consultant should recommend the best solution.
For web applications 9 out of 10 times (if not more) PHP is the best
solution and I have no issue recommending it even though there's no one to
pin the blame on if it goes wrong.
Think of it this way, ask the customer "which would you prefer: a
platform with someone to blame when it all goes wrong or a platform that
actually works?"
Cheers,
Andy
--
Andy Jeffries MBCS CITP ZCE | gPHPEdit Lead Developer http://www.gphpedit.org | PHP editor for Gnome 2 http://www.andyjeffries.co.uk | Personal site and photos
"Andy Jeffries" <ne**@andyjeffries.co.uk> wrote in message
news:pa***************************@andyjeffries.co .uk... On Thu, 04 May 2006 13:25:32 -0700, Chung Leong wrote: I think you'll have a hard time finding any big business using PHP for
their mission critical systems. The best thing about using something from
Microsoft is that if things go wrong, you can always pin the blame on
Microsoft. With open source you're stuck with it. As much as I like PHP I
would never recommend it for projects where the stakes are high.
Then I think you have a deep seated issue in that you need someone to
blame when things go wrong.
When the stakes are "high" (which is a relative term from business to
business) then the consultant should recommend the best solution.
For web applications 9 out of 10 times (if not more) PHP is the best
solution and I have no issue recommending it even though there's no one to
pin the blame on if it goes wrong.
Think of it this way, ask the customer "which would you prefer: a
platform with someone to blame when it all goes wrong or a platform that
actually works?"
Cheers,
Andy
--
Andy Jeffries MBCS CITP ZCE | gPHPEdit Lead Developer
http://www.gphpedit.org | PHP editor for Gnome 2
http://www.andyjeffries.co.uk | Personal site and photos
Nah, there's no need to blame people - he's just speaking the truth. We use
PHP for a ton of our web development, but for internal company applications,
it's mostly ASP.NET now and that was switched from classic ASP. There's more
backing from a company with MS than PHP despite the much better community
PHP has. In the end, it's a hard sell to companies when talking about using
PHP for large company applications accessed thousands of times a day and
dealing with millions of records from a DB - Most companies will spend the
money for the MS platform.
That being said, I'm a HUGE PHP fan and feel it's more flexible than ASP,
but reality is reality. an@other.net wrote: In article <tY******************************@onvoy.com>, ju****@koivi.com
says... Yahoo! has a handful of big-name PHP developers on staff - including
Rasmus Lerdorf and Andrei Zmievski
http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news...le.php/3587606
http://www.php.net/~derick/meeting-notes.html
PHP is a high level scripting language no different from any other. You
could set up MS basic to do the same job.
Personally I'd say its backward method of defining global variable scope
on its own causes enough extra typing to make me want to look elsewhere.
PHP provides no special fuctions no special security no special features
that dont exist in any other scripting language ever invented.
It's an ok scripting language and thats about it.
If you are writing serious "applications" it shouldn't even be
considered.
That's fine... but it had absolutely nothing to do with my post.
--
Justin Koivisto, ZCE - ju****@koivi.com http://koivi.com
Nate Baxley wrote:
I'm working to convince my office to make the switch
to PHP from ASP.
In order to convince anyone to choose one technology over next, you
need a good set of reasons. You need to compare performance, cost, and
time to market (not necessarily in that order). Since you provided no
details as to what you currently using ASP for, no case can be made for
either switching or not switching.
I've convinced them that some change needs to be made,
but I think there is some hesitation about PHP being too
non-corporate.
What exactly do you mean by "non-corporate"? Inexpensive and easy to
use? That's an advantage. No corporate entity that controls the
product? It's Zend...
Can anyone give examples of big companies that are using
PHP for real business?
How do you define "real business"? Is Friendster with 27+ million
active users "real business" or not?
I remember hearing that Yahoo! used it, but that was several
years ago.
They still do. Michael Radwin keeps giving talks about it at various
conferences: http://public.yahoo.com/~radwin/talks/
Most recent of them, actually, was delivered about a week ago at MySQL
User Conference...
Cheers,
NC
Andy Jeffries wrote: Then I think you have a deep seated issue in that you need someone to
blame when things go wrong.
Try telling that to your boss after your recommendation has costed the
company half a mil :-)
When the stakes are "high" (which is a relative term from business to
business) then the consultant should recommend the best solution.
And the best solution in that case is one that has the lowest risk.
Using PHP in a system that's mission critical for your business is a
high risk proposition--both from a objective and selfish,
save-my-own-ass perspective. For one thing, there are no patches for
PHP. To plug a hole or fix a bug you have to do a point upgrade.
Quality control is substandard, with debilitating regressions creeping
into released versions. And when these bugs are discovered, barely any
effort is made to inform the user base of their existence.
For web applications 9 out of 10 times (if not more) PHP is the best
solution and I have no issue recommending it even though there's no one to
pin the blame on if it goes wrong.
I don't disagree, but the tenth is the one that the OP is looking for.
Think of it this way, ask the customer "which would you prefer: a
platform with someone to blame when it all goes wrong or a platform that
actually works?"
As a government employee, I say the former is preferable. LOL
But seriously, in all business decisions one has to weight the
potential rewards against the risks involved. To say that a switch to
PHP is good because so-and-so big-shot company is using it is as silly
as to say the switch shouldn't be made because so-and-so isn't using it.
Chung Leong wrote: Andy Jeffries wrote:
Then I think you have a deep seated issue in that you need someone to
blame when things go wrong.
Try telling that to your boss after your recommendation has costed the
company half a mil :-)
When the stakes are "high" (which is a relative term from business to
business) then the consultant should recommend the best solution.
And the best solution in that case is one that has the lowest risk.
Using PHP in a system that's mission critical for your business is a
high risk proposition--both from a objective and selfish,
save-my-own-ass perspective. For one thing, there are no patches for
PHP. To plug a hole or fix a bug you have to do a point upgrade.
Quality control is substandard, with debilitating regressions creeping
into released versions. And when these bugs are discovered, barely any
effort is made to inform the user base of their existence.
And I would trust PHP a lot farther than ASP.Net.
And Microsoft has never regressed anything? ROFLMAO! I can't count the number
of rewrites I've been involved in before switching AWAY from MS products.
As for Quality Control - yes, I wish MS would get some. Their software is crap.
The only thing they have going for them is they have snowed those who don't
know a damn thing about IT but have high positions in big companies.
For web applications 9 out of 10 times (if not more) PHP is the best
solution and I have no issue recommending it even though there's no one to
pin the blame on if it goes wrong.
I don't disagree, but the tenth is the one that the OP is looking for.
I don't think it is the tenth in this case. I would have absolutely no problem
with a PHP solution.Think of it this way, ask the customer "which would you prefer: a
platform with someone to blame when it all goes wrong or a platform that
actually works?"
As a government employee, I say the former is preferable. LOL
Ah, that explains things. Governments have never been noted for making
intelligent decisions.
But seriously, in all business decisions one has to weight the
potential rewards against the risks involved. To say that a switch to
PHP is good because so-and-so big-shot company is using it is as silly
as to say the switch shouldn't be made because so-and-so isn't using it.
Yep. And there are way too many risks with MS products!
Sorry, Chung, you're in the wrong newsgroup if you want to bash PHP and extol
the virtues of MS products.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp. js*******@attglobal.net
================== an@other.net wrote: If you are writing serious "applications" it [php] shouldn't even be
considered.
As I mentioned previously, I have 6 years worth of proof that your
statement is nonsense.
Anyway, with regards to C# being cumbersome... it's not really, it just
works very differently to PHP and 'traditional' ASP. It does take some
getting used to, but, at least in my opinion, it is a very nice
language to work with. Having said that, if you are simply writing
quick little scripts, then PHP is going to be must faster in terms of
development and benchmarking.
P.S. What the point in asking if any big companies are using the
language for real business, then admiting you are just a small shop
with one coder? heh.
Anyway.... I wish you good luck with whatever you choose.
Chung Leong wrote: I think you'll have a hard time finding any big business using PHP for
their mission critical systems.
I've worked at three so far. There no reason not to use PHP for mission
critical stuff. Poor code is down to poor coders, which unfortunately
the PHP world seems to have a lot of.
Hmm, ok, that is a harsh statement, but the nature of the language
makes it attractive to the hobbiest, which isn't a bad thing but when
they start releasing code, well you only need to look at packetstorm or
similar on any given day to see what the problem is.
The best thing about using something
from Microsoft is that if things go wrong, you can always pin the blame
on Microsoft. With open source you're stuck with it. As much as I like
PHP I would never recommend it for projects where the stakes are high.
That's nonsense. Microsoft don't pay compensation for downtime, and if
they did they certainly wouldn't pay it for downtime caused by the code
written by the user.
In fact, in real life what happens is... Microsoft take a month or more
to find, fix and release a patch for the problem you've found.
The PHP devs will likely have a fix out within a few hours, or days at
most.
Not the mention that, if your code goes down, effecting your clients,
and sure they couldn't care less who's fault it is, they just want it
fixed. Being able to say, it wasn't us it was Microsofts fault really
doesn't cut it with shareholders.
I've spoken to people at MS about technical issues for beta projects
and such and they have always been very helpful, but they provide no
more or less help than the PHP community does.
On Thu, 04 May 2006 16:29:17 -0700, Chung Leong wrote: When the stakes are "high" (which is a relative term from business to
business) then the consultant should recommend the best solution.
And the best solution in that case is one that has the lowest risk. Using
PHP in a system that's mission critical for your business is a high risk
proposition--both from a objective and selfish, save-my-own-ass
perspective. For one thing, there are no patches for PHP. To plug a hole
or fix a bug you have to do a point upgrade.
Or change the source yourself using a diff from the source code. If
you're a big development company then it's not much effort to do that on
one server then roll it out to the others through your choice of
distribution/packaging method.
The bonus is *YOU CAN DO THAT*, with MS you're stuck in to waiting for
their release cycle after they've tested that it works on Chinese Windows
with a Russian language editor running Office 97 (even though the patch to
the ASP component isn't at all related, they have to test it to ensure the
entire experience isn't broken).
Cheers,
Andy
--
Andy Jeffries MBCS CITP ZCE | gPHPEdit Lead Developer http://www.gphpedit.org | PHP editor for Gnome 2 http://www.andyjeffries.co.uk | Personal site and photos
In article <pa****************************@andyjeffries.co.uk >, ne**@andyjeffries.co.uk says...
On Thu, 04 May 2006 18:03:23 +0000, an wrote: PHP is a high level scripting language no different from any other. You
could set up MS basic to do the same job.
Another opinion from a troll too cowardly to put his real name/email
address.
Are you saying he's wrong or are you going to cry like a baby and assume
that refutes everything anyone ever says?
In article <qv******************************@onvoy.com>, ju****@koivi.com
says... PHP is a high level scripting language no different from any other. You
could set up MS basic to do the same job.
Personally I'd say its backward method of defining global variable scope
on its own causes enough extra typing to make me want to look elsewhere.
PHP provides no special fuctions no special security no special features
that dont exist in any other scripting language ever invented.
It's an ok scripting language and thats about it.
If you are writing serious "applications" it shouldn't even be
considered.
That's fine... but it had absolutely nothing to do with my post.
--
Justin Koivisto, ZCE - ju****@koivi.com
http://koivi.com
Actually it answered it perfectly.
You want to change to PHP but you can't seem to demonstrate a single
reason to do so other than you appear to fancy a change.
This message points out PHP is nothing special and tells you there IS
no arguament to use PHP over anything else.
Seems exactly the response you should get to me. an@othernoname.net wrote: In article <pa****************************@andyjeffries.co.uk >,
ne**@andyjeffries.co.uk says...
On Thu, 04 May 2006 18:03:23 +0000, an wrote:
PHP is a high level scripting language no different from any other. You
could set up MS basic to do the same job.
Another opinion from a troll too cowardly to put his real name/email
address.
Are you saying he's wrong or are you going to cry like a baby and assume
that refutes everything anyone ever says?
No, I think me means that people who don't even put in their real name aren't
worth the time. And their posts aren't worth the bytes they take.
Go away, troll.
And BTW - you didn't answer his question.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp. js*******@attglobal.net
==================
> You want to change to PHP but you can't seem to demonstrate a single reason to do so other than you appear to fancy a change.
This message points out PHP is nothing special and tells you there IS
no arguament to use PHP over anything else.
Your arguament is as strong as your spelling.
Jerry Stuckle wrote: And I would trust PHP a lot farther than ASP.Net.
And Microsoft has never regressed anything? ROFLMAO! I can't count the number
of rewrites I've been involved in before switching AWAY from MS products.
The difference here is that you can point a finger at Microsoft and say
"it's their fault."
As for Quality Control - yes, I wish MS would get some. Their software is crap.
The only thing they have going for them is they have snowed those who don't
know a damn thing about IT but have high positions in big companies.
Well, precisely.
I don't think it is the tenth in this case. I would have absolutely no problem
with a PHP solution.
I didn't say PHP isn't right for his situation. The OP is looking for a
PHP deployment at a large, well known companies. an@other.com wrote:
Actually it answered it perfectly.
I never asked a question, only provided data - there was nothing to answer.
You want to change to PHP but you can't seem to demonstrate a single
reason to do so other than you appear to fancy a change.
No, I don't want to change to PHP. I've been using it for quite a long
time now.
This message points out PHP is nothing special and tells you there IS
no arguament to use PHP over anything else.
Actually, every language is special in some way, or they would never
have come about. That is what makes arguments to any language over
another, and it always depends on the tasks at hand and the future of
the application.
Seems exactly the response you should get to me.
I think you need to learn how to read usenet posts and follow threads.
--
Justin Koivisto, ZCE - ju****@koivi.com http://koivi.com
Nate Baxley wrote: I'm working to convince my office to make the switch to PHP from ASP.
I've convinced them that some change needs to be made, but I think
there is some hesitation about PHP being too non-corporate. Can anyone
give examples of big companies that are using PHP for real business? I
remember hearing that Yahoo! used it, but that was several years ago.
Anything you can send would be great.
There are some talented german coders at www.thinkphp.de who have some
big corporate clients.
Some details are on their projects page (projects link on menu at top
of page, list of projects in menu on left)
The Enterprise->References page shows their clients include: www.hypovereinsbank.de www.postadress.de (for the german post office) www.lycos.de
Siemens IC is mentioned too but no webpage is given
Babelfish gave the usual mixed results. Apparently PHP is a handy swiss
measurer for web projects...
Tim
Nate Baxley wrote: There's no question that we need to get away from ASP. I've gone down
the ASP.NET road and found it very cumbersome for the work that we do.
We basically are creating lots and lots of CRUD calls for directories,
news, inventories, etc. I've used PHP in my background and was happy
with it. The Object Oriented functionality new to PHP since I used it
also has me intrigued. We are basically a MS shop currently in the
sense that our server is Windows 2003 and our DB is SQL Server.
However, all of our development is done with Dreamweaver and we're not
really tied into MS so much that we can't leave. For now I'm doing
testing with PHP on our Windows box and accessing SQL Server with
little trouble. I don't know that I want to leave SQL Server for
MySQL, although I might consider using PostgreSQL. We are a very small
shop but looking to expand. I am currently the only true programmer,
so that side of things isn't a problem. Any comments?
As other people have mentioned, there are big companies running PHP (Yahoo,
Honda) but sometimes it's also worth noting what other organisations are
using it too (e.g. SANS for one). Did you try asking what large companies
are running ASP?
Regards the finger pointing thing....have you ever dealt with Microsoft to
get an issue resolved - I've tried. If you're lucky, it will be a security
problem - if you publish the details then you may get a fix in a few
months. OTOH, with FOSS software on several occasions I've been able to
fully characterize the problem and in some cases write a fix myself. Where
I've gone back to the developer, I've seen very quick turnaround. One
exception to this is with a problem in the RedHat's Anaconda, round about
7.something. They behaved in a very Microsoftish way, denying any sort of
bug ("it's supposed to work that way") although admittedly they fixed it in
the next release. More recently I've been running SuSE on my servers and
found little to complain about.
I suggest you also take the time to read the licences that came with your
existing software. If your software destroys all your files, eats your
first-born, rapes your girlfriend and steals your car, Microsoft will only
offer you a refund on what you paid for it (but you've got to stop using
it).
Searching Amazon for C# gives about 514 hits. PHP gives 655 hits. For
Google, searching for PHP in the body of the page (not URL) returns about 1
billion hits. ASP, half that, C# about 100 million. In the URL, Google
finds about 4 billion for PHP, and 3 billion for ASP. See also http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm
If having commercial backing provides a security blanket for your customers,
you can buy PHP support from Oracle, IBM and Zend.
IME, ASP is too limited for building real applications and sooner or later
you start adding in bits to solve problems. So it's worth also taking the
time to note where you have had to buy in additional ActiveX or COM objects
to solve problems using ASP. While the capital cost may not have been
significant, what about the TCO? Where is the accountability?
As for the DB question...PHP will work with MS-SQL server, although since
you're breaking your lock-in to Microsoft, there's little reason to retain
MS on your webserver OS. OTOH from a Linux box it's bit more tricky to
connect to a MS-SQL Server backend (Microsoft's systems are very hard to
integrate with other vendor solutions except where they (try) to apply open
standards) but in no way impossible. You might want to consider Sybase as
an alternative DBMS - IIRC MS SQL Server started off as a port of Sybase
with some GUI bolt ons.
HTH
C.
Nate Baxley wrote: I'm working to convince my office to make the switch to PHP from ASP.
I've convinced them that some change needs to be made, but I think
there is some hesitation about PHP being too non-corporate. Can anyone
give examples of big companies that are using PHP for real business? I
remember hearing that Yahoo! used it, but that was several years ago.
Anything you can send would be great.
IMHO, you don't have to convince your office; they'll automatically
get switched to PHP like anyone (provided the current scenario remains
same).
digg.com uses PHP and developed by few developers and relatively
small--but gets high traffic
<http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2006/04/digg_phps_scalability_and_perf.html>
--
<?php echo 'Just another PHP saint'; ?>
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com Blog: http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/
Chung Leong wrote:
<snip> And the best solution in that case is one that has the lowest risk.
Using PHP in a system that's mission critical for your business is a
high risk proposition--both from a objective and selfish,
save-my-own-ass perspective. For one thing, there are no patches for
PHP. To plug a hole or fix a bug you have to do a point upgrade.
Quality control is substandard, with debilitating regressions creeping
into released versions. And when these bugs are discovered, barely any
effort is made to inform the user base of their existence.
Does MS call every XP or IE users whenever they find bugs? For PHP,
bugs are always advertised in the homepage <http://www.php.net/>--look
at the issue related to 5.1.3.
--
<?php echo 'Just another PHP saint'; ?>
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com Blog: http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/
R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote: Does MS call every XP or IE users whenever they find bugs? For PHP,
bugs are always advertised in the homepage <http://www.php.net/>--look
at the issue related to 5.1.3.
Microsoft does a decent job documenting their bugs. KB articles at MSDN
usually contain fair amount of details and impact assessments. A line
in the changelog doesn't really cut it when you need to convince the
technically-challenged higher-ups that it isn't your fault that
something bad happened.
The problems with 5.1.3 underscores what I said about the lack of
quality control. Regressions that serious (and easy to detect) should
never have been allowed to slip through. QA is a tidious job of course.
You have to pay people to do it.
"Nate Baxley" <nb*****@gmail.com> wrote in
news:11**********************@g10g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com: I'm working to convince my office to make the switch to PHP from ASP.
I've convinced them that some change needs to be made, but I think
there is some hesitation about PHP being too non-corporate. Can
anyone give examples of big companies that are using PHP for real business?
I remember hearing that Yahoo! used it, but that was several years ago.
Anything you can send would be great.
One very large company uses PHP. PSA Peugeot citroen they have used it
for years
just look at there site and see http://www.psa-peugeot-citroen.com
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Thanks for all of the comments. I think that on the technical side
I've convinced my boss that PHP will work fine. Much better than the
current ASP that we have and much faster development (at least with our
current skill set) than ASP.NET. Having several large companies also
convinced him that it's not just a bunch of lunch time hackers throwing
together sites, and we'll be able to to throw names like Yahoo, Sony,
and Apple at any clients that have a problem with a non-Microsoft
technology that they've never heard of. Saddly we have to be prepared
for clients second guessing our technical decisions occasionaly.
Anyway, thanks again for all of the input and if you have any other
"well known" brands using PHP, keep posting them. It's nice to see
this "little" language being used so prevelantly.
Nate
Thanks for all of the comments. I think that on the technical side
I've convinced my boss that PHP will work fine. Much better than the
current ASP that we have and much faster development (at least with our
current skill set) than ASP.NET. Having several large companies also
convinced him that it's not just a bunch of lunch time hackers throwing
together sites, and we'll be able to to throw names like Yahoo, Sony,
and Apple at any clients that have a problem with a non-Microsoft
technology that they've never heard of. Saddly we have to be prepared
for clients second guessing our technical decisions occasionaly.
Anyway, thanks again for all of the input and if you have any other
"well known" brands using PHP, keep posting them. It's nice to see
this "little" language being used so prevelantly.
Nate
Nate Baxley wrote: Saddly we have to be prepared
for clients second guessing our technical decisions occasionaly.
Clients thinking they know better? I don't believe that for a moment!
:p
Anyway, thanks again for all of the input and if you have any other
"well known" brands using PHP, keep posting them. It's nice to see
this "little" language being used so prevelantly.
I mean no offence, but you sound like you're posting via
timemachine.google.com, set back to 2002.
Back then I could understand this question/argument but it's blatantly
obvious that the landscape has changed much since then; ASP is long
since dead, ASP.net as a firm hold and PHP is a mature language, but
evolving very quickly. If you want to see how professional PHP is now,
take a look at the trade shows. There are some very big names using
and/or investing in the technology.
Also, and here's where I'm probably going to offend you, although I
genuinely don't mean to.... if you don't think your team has the
skillset for ASP.net then you must have either very good sales people,
or clueless clients.
There's a serious point there, if your team doesn't have the ability to
code properly (in which case learning c# syntax would not be a concern)
then your PHP code is going to turn out like a "lunchtime hackers"
project. The platform is, without doubt, capable of running complex
applications in very professional environments, if your developers
aren't then there's no point in going through all the hassle of moving
platform from ASP to PHP because you just wont notice the difference.
Send your devs on a training course, or at least get them zend
certified (it's very cheap).
Nate
Goodluck,
Nat (without the e ;o)
Nat,
No offence taken. You make a good point about poor coders being able
to mess up a project no matter what language they use. I think that
what we don't currently have is the experience using the compiled
(ASP.NET) architecture vs a scripting (PHP/ASP) architecture. For the
projects that we are doing, the compiled approach involves too much
overhead for the fairly simple pages we create. I have confidence that
our programmers will be able to use the expanded functionality (more
functions and object oriented programming) available in PHP where ASP
was holding us back. And, yes I know that ASP has been long dead and
believe me we have wanted to make the switch away from it for a while
but with our size it's hard to dedicate people to migrating code or
creating new "widgets" when we can easily throw in our ASP components
that are developed and tested. It's a bit of a catch-22 since we will
eventually be held back by this strategy and that's where we are today.
I do think that we will be able to move forward with PHP and be better
for it.
Thanks again for all of the comments!
Nate Baxley
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