What you guys use to create web pages?

[Marco]

Ive been using front page but it starts to anoy me when i need to change in
the source things that i cant change while in the "normal" mode, specialy
when working with tables its soo hard to tell him what we realy want with
out going to source and change it there.

heh heh probably some while say use the mighty notepad ;) , its not good for
i use it only when its to change a few things and not to start pages from
scratch.

[Kevin Thorpe]

Marco wrote:

Ive been using front page but it starts to anoy me when i need to change in
the source things that i cant change while in the "normal" mode, specialy
when working with tables its soo hard to tell him what we realy want with
out going to source and change it there.

heh heh probably some while say use the mighty notepad ;) , its not good for
i use it only when its to change a few things and not to start pages from
scratch.

use vi! but only if you're at least a 7th level magic user ;-)

Personally I use vi (notpad on steroids) for everything; helped by the
fact that I lean heavily on style sheets. My colleague then uses
Dreamweaver to ruin^h^h^h^h style on top of the working code.

Dreamweaver is rather expensive though.
Mozilla's composer isn't too bad.

[Guillaume Brocker]

Marco wrote:

Ive been using front page but it starts to anoy me when i need to change in
the source things that i cant change while in the "normal" mode, specialy
when working with tables its soo hard to tell him what we realy want with
out going to source and change it there.

heh heh probably some while say use the mighty notepad ;) , its not good for
i use it only when its to change a few things and not to start pages from
scratch.

For me, good tools are text editor doing syntax highlighting. For
example, *vim* is not bad :) I'm a fun of *eclipse* too.

<http://www.vim.org>
<http://www.eclipse/org>
<http://www.eclipse-plugins.info>

But please, push that ugly frontpage aside :)

--
Guillaume Brocker

[Guillaume Brocker]

Guillaume Brocker wrote:

<http://www.eclipse/org>

The good uri is <http://www.eclipse.org>

--
Guillaume Brocker

[Paul 'piz' Wellner Bou]

> Ive been using front page but it starts to anoy me when i need to change in

the source things that i cant change while in the "normal" mode, specialy
when working with tables its soo hard to tell him what we realy want with
out going to source and change it there.

I _never_ used and _never_ would use frontpage.
I hate WYSIWYG Editors...
I wouldn't use Mozilla's editor neither...
I used Dreamweaver a few months - but only the source editor.

Nowadays IE, Mozilla, Netscape, Konquerer, Opera, etc all understand
(more or less) CSS2 - there is no reason to use chaos-table-structures
which force you to use a WYSIWYG.

Handcoding - IMHO the only way.

Editors?
On Windows UltraEdit*, PHPEdit*, Maguma
On Linux: Quanta etc for little things
For both: Eclipse with php plugin, Zend Studio*, (ConTEXT)

*great!

There are a few more like BlueFish, Meybohms, etc which aren't bad but
they didn't convince me.

greetz
Paul

[Ian.H]

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:00:23 +0000, Kevin Thorpe wrote:

Marco wrote:

Ive been using front page but it starts to anoy me when i need to change
in the source things that i cant change while in the "normal" mode,
specialy when working with tables its soo hard to tell him what we realy
want with out going to source and change it there.

heh heh probably some while say use the mighty notepad ;) , its not good
for i use it only when its to change a few things and not to start pages
from scratch.

use vi! but only if you're at least a 7th level magic user ;-)

Personally I use vi (notpad on steroids) for everything; helped by the
fact that I lean heavily on style sheets. My colleague then uses
Dreamweaver to ruin^h^h^h^h style on top of the working code.

Dreamweaver is rather expensive though. Mozilla's composer isn't too bad.

Vim is great!

Anjuta is a nice GUI editor (amongst other bits and pieces) for *nix.

As for Dreamweaver, I don't know if there's a windoze port available, but
'Screem' looks somewhat similar for *nix anyway.

Regards,

Ian

--
Ian.H
digiServ Network
London, UK
http://digiserv.net/

[Tony Marston]

For my PHP code I use PHPEdit from http://www.phpedit.net/. It has syntax
colouring, code hints, and an interactive debugger.

As all my HTML is generated via XML and XSL stylesheets I also use Komodo
from http://www.activestate.com/Products/Komodo/ as it has an interactive
XSL debugger.

NEVER NEVER NEVER use FrontPage as it is an enormous pile of poo. WYSIWYG
editors are for girls. Real men use text editors.

--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net

"Paul 'piz' Wellner Bou" <pa**********@united-scripts.com> wrote in message
news:c0*************@ID-205474.news.uni-berlin.de...

Ive been using front page but it starts to anoy me when i need to change in the source things that i cant change while in the "normal" mode, specialy when working with tables its soo hard to tell him what we realy want with out going to source and change it there.

I _never_ used and _never_ would use frontpage.
I hate WYSIWYG Editors...
I wouldn't use Mozilla's editor neither...
I used Dreamweaver a few months - but only the source editor.

Nowadays IE, Mozilla, Netscape, Konquerer, Opera, etc all understand
(more or less) CSS2 - there is no reason to use chaos-table-structures
which force you to use a WYSIWYG.

Handcoding - IMHO the only way.

Editors?
On Windows UltraEdit*, PHPEdit*, Maguma
On Linux: Quanta etc for little things
For both: Eclipse with php plugin, Zend Studio*, (ConTEXT)

*great!

There are a few more like BlueFish, Meybohms, etc which aren't bad but
they didn't convince me.

greetz
Paul

[Jeffrey Silverman]

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:54:23 +0000, Tony Marston wrote:

NEVER NEVER NEVER use FrontPage as it is an enormous pile of poo.

I agree completely and will also back this statement up with example (as
calling something a pile of poo without references to back it up is just
name calling).

Here is the (boring) story:
I was requested to take an existing FrontPage-created website and
reformat it and post it to the web. The frontpage pages were a
*nightmare* to reformat! For layout of images, instead of using regular
<img ...> tags there were all these XML declarations all over the place.
WTF?? The page was actually unusable in any browser other than MSIE and
even in IE it was not completely readable!!! Frontpage used CSS
positioning for elements that do not need to be positioned.

I had to manually (well, with Perl, Vim and some ad-hoc macros) strip out
irrelevant XML and CSS information and basically start from scratch.

Okay, not the best story, but the eXPerience definitely reaffirmed my
hatred of FrontPage.

<sideNote>
Wow! I can't believe how many respondees to the OP us Vi!
</sideNote>

later...

--
Jeffrey D. Silverman | jeffrey AT jhu DOT edu
Website | http://www.wse.jhu.edu/newtnotes/

[Jon Beckett]

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:07:39 +0100, "Marco" <mpgtlatbluewindotch>
wrote:

Ive been using front page but it starts to anoy me when i need to change in
the source things that i cant change while in the "normal" mode, specialy
when working with tables its soo hard to tell him what we realy want with
out going to source and change it there.

heh heh probably some while say use the mighty notepad ;) , its not good for
i use it only when its to change a few things and not to start pages from
scratch.

To be honest, with this being a PHP newsgroup, I guess you're only
going to be asking about HTML creation for page templates?

Dreamweaver seems to write very neat code, but still not as readable
as hand-written code...

If you are hand writing HTML in the Windows world, I have absolutely
relied on Textpad for a long time now (many years).

It's rock solid. It's stable. It has syntax hilighting. You can invent
your own syntax hilighting. You can make your own menu commands. You
can capture output. You can use regular expressions for both finding
and replacing. You can run external programs and capture their output
from your custom menu commands - running regexs on that output if you
want... the list goes on.

It isn't through some kind of mistake that people like Sun, IBM and
quite a few universities around the world have huge numbers of Textpad
licenses for their students...

[Carl]

I use crimson editor. Much more comfortable to use than notepad, and
it's free ;) Frontpage sucks btw...

[Brandon Blackmoor]

Marco wrote:

Ive been using front page but it starts to anoy me when i
need to change in the source things that i cant change while
in the "normal" mode, specialy when working with tables its

1) Use CSS for layout, rather than tables.

2) A good editor (my favorite) is TextPad.

bblackmoor
2004-02-17

[steven mestdagh]

Marco <mpgtlatbluewindotch> wrote:

Ive been using front page but it starts to anoy me

fp gives tons of unnecessary code, some of which is not even html.
writing your code by hand is not so hard, much cleaner and therefore
quicker for viewers of your site on a low bandwidth link.
as a text editor i use vim. it's very powerful, available on many
platforms (the default editor on most unix-like systems) and does
nice colored highlighting of html and php (it knows most of php's
built-in functions).

steven.

[Trent]

"Marco" <mpgtlatbluewindotch> wrote in message news:<40**********@news.bluewin.ch>...

Ive been using front page but it starts to anoy me when i need to change in
the source things that i cant change while in the "normal" mode, specialy
when working with tables its soo hard to tell him what we realy want with
out going to source and change it there.

heh heh probably some while say use the mighty notepad ;) , its not good for
i use it only when its to change a few things and not to start pages from
scratch.

l33t doodz like to say they use Notepad, but it's really a poor text
editor. I prefer EditPlus or gVim.

Yeah, I *like* colored code and some frills here and there. If that
means I'm not hardcore, bfd.

[Brad Kent]

I use textpad (www.textpad.com)
It's a great "notepad on steroids" for windows.
"Marco" <mpgtlatbluewindotch> wrote in message news:<40**********@news.bluewin.ch>...

Ive been using front page but it starts to anoy me when i need to change in
the source things that i cant change while in the "normal" mode, specialy
when working with tables its soo hard to tell him what we realy want with
out going to source and change it there.

heh heh probably some while say use the mighty notepad ;) , its not good for
i use it only when its to change a few things and not to start pages from
scratch.

[adamt]

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:07:39 +0100, Marco wrote:

I'm getting on well with Bluefish for writing the HTML/PHP/Javascript/CSS
bits.

http://bluefish.openoffice.nl/

And I use the gimp for creating the static images.

http://www.gimp.org/

I'm sorta stuck using PHPmyAdmin for the MySQL stuff, as my current host
doesn't give shell accounts.

[R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah]

"Marco" <mpgtlatbluewindotch> wrote in message news:<40**********@news.bluewin.ch>...

Ive been using front page but it starts to anoy me when i need to change in
the source things that i cant change while in the "normal" mode, specialy
when working with tables its soo hard to tell him what we realy want with
out going to source and change it there.

heh heh probably some while say use the mighty notepad ;) , its not good for
i use it only when its to change a few things and not to start pages from
scratch.

I use PHPEdit+DW. Would use PHPEdit almost all (99%) time. Would use
DW rarely especially for templating, HTML source cleanup/formatting
and markup validation.

BTW, I will be very much interested to see some colourful editors
like OptiPerl (<http://www.xarka.com/optiperl/features.html>).
OptiPerl is the coolest editor I have ever seen (but available only
for Perl).

--
"Success is not what you achieve, but it is what you die for"
If you live in USA, please support John Edwards.
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com

[Daytha]

dreamweaver )-> menu )-> CLean up word HTML
;-)
"Jeffrey Silverman" <je*****@jhu.edu> wrote in message
news:pa****************************@jhu.edu...

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:54:23 +0000, Tony Marston wrote:

NEVER NEVER NEVER use FrontPage as it is an enormous pile of poo.

I agree completely and will also back this statement up with example (as
calling something a pile of poo without references to back it up is just
name calling).

Here is the (boring) story:
I was requested to take an existing FrontPage-created website and
reformat it and post it to the web. The frontpage pages were a
*nightmare* to reformat! For layout of images, instead of using regular
<img ...> tags there were all these XML declarations all over the place.
WTF?? The page was actually unusable in any browser other than MSIE and
even in IE it was not completely readable!!! Frontpage used CSS
positioning for elements that do not need to be positioned.

I had to manually (well, with Perl, Vim and some ad-hoc macros) strip out
irrelevant XML and CSS information and basically start from scratch.

Okay, not the best story, but the eXPerience definitely reaffirmed my
hatred of FrontPage.

<sideNote>
Wow! I can't believe how many respondees to the OP us Vi!
</sideNote>

later...

--
Jeffrey D. Silverman | jeffrey AT jhu DOT edu
Website | http://www.wse.jhu.edu/newtnotes/

[Jeffrey Silverman]

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 13:08:01 +0100, Daytha wrote:

dreamweaver )-> menu )-> CLean up word HTML
;-)

Argh! I knew there was an easier way...

Except...

I run Linux. Only Linux. And thus, I do not have DW installed.

Curse you, Macromedia (and Adobe) for not porting your products to Linux!

Oh, well....

--
Jeffrey D. Silverman | jeffrey AT jhu DOT edu
Website | http://www.wse.jhu.edu/newtnotes/

[skyweb]

Jeffrey Silverman ha scritto:

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 13:08:01 +0100, Daytha wrote:

dreamweaver )-> menu )-> CLean up word HTML
;-)

Argh! I knew there was an easier way...

Except...

I run Linux. Only Linux. And thus, I do not have DW installed.

Curse you, Macromedia (and Adobe) for not porting your products to Linux!

with CrossOffice you can install Dreamweaver MX :)

[skyweb]

Kevin Thorpe ha scritto:

use vi! but only if you're at least a 7th level magic user ;-)

there are some plug-in to view php code colour!?

[JVlad]

-definitely, PHPED 3.3 by NuSphere. It's the best IDE.
Has embedded browser, profiler, debugger, ftp, ftps, webdav and
webdav/ssl clients for publishing, one-touch publishing for the
project feature, CVS client, integrated with PHP Documentor, has HTML
TIDY embedded, can be extended with 3rd party tools like HTML
Validators, PHP scripts etc. Great remote debugger, much more powerful
than anything else.

JV.

"Marco" <mpgtlatbluewindotch> wrote in message news:<40**********@news.bluewin.ch>...

Ive been using front page but it starts to anoy me when i need to change in
the source things that i cant change while in the "normal" mode, specialy
when working with tables its soo hard to tell him what we realy want with
out going to source and change it there.

heh heh probably some while say use the mighty notepad ;) , its not good for
i use it only when its to change a few things and not to start pages from
scratch.

[Ian.H]

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 17:44:31 +0000, skyweb wrote:

Kevin Thorpe ha scritto:

use vi! but only if you're at least a 7th level magic user ;-)

there are some plug-in to view php code colour!?

Vim comes with a PHP syntax highlight file (and Smarty) =)

Regards,

Ian

--
Ian.H
digiServ Network
London, UK
http://digiserv.net/

[B. Johannessen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Jeffrey Silverman wrote:

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 13:08:01 +0100, Daytha wrote:

dreamweaver )-> menu )-> CLean up word HTML

Argh! I knew there was an easier way...
Except...
I run Linux. Only Linux. And thus, I do not have DW installed.

Tidy: http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett/tidy/
Bob

- --
| B. Johannessen <bo*@db.org> [phone] - http://db.org/
| Mail & Spam - News, Drafts & Standards - http://db.org/blog/
| On The Origin Of Spam; Spam Statistics - http://db.org/spam/
- --
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iD8DBQFANEKrooisUyMOFlgRAvR/AJ9XS5kagLZ/5nurxDZQd9TX2+oVpACePuOd
mDxxE2kcDF6D95Rq172fAVc=
=514I
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Dan Tripp]

Marco wrote:

Ive been using front page but it starts to anoy me when i need to change in
the source things that i cant change while in the "normal" mode, specialy
when working with tables its soo hard to tell him what we realy want with
out going to source and change it there.

heh heh probably some while say use the mighty notepad ;) , its not good for
i use it only when its to change a few things and not to start pages from
scratch.

I love HomeSite. Macromedia didn't jack it up after they bought it.

The new version of Dreamweaver (MX2004) doesn't completely suck, and if
I knew less... oops, I mean if I were "more visually inclined/ a
designer-type" I'd probably use it. It's doing a lot better now than
the earlier versions... which definitely sucked.

TextPad gathers rave reviews and near-religious fanaticism from one of
my friends, but I never saw "the light."

The worst HTML I've ever seen from any application is hands-down
Microsoft Word. One particular document I was editing was a
multi-generation Word document that had been saved back and forth
to/from HTML/.doc over and over. Dreamweaver's "clean MS Word" command
chewed through about a third of the drek, but it still was 90% dross.
Good God that sucked.

- Dan
http://blog.dantripp.com

[David Mackenzie]

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:07:39 +0100, "Marco" <mpgtlatbluewindotch>
wrote:

Ive been using front page but it starts to anoy me when i need to change in
the source things that i cant change while in the "normal" mode, specialy
when working with tables its soo hard to tell him what we realy want with
out going to source and change it there.

heh heh probably some while say use the mighty notepad ;) , its not good for
i use it only when its to change a few things and not to start pages from
scratch.

I've seen a few prople rave about TextPad, and I'd like to rave about
it, too.

I've been using it since around 1998. I had to view a text file from a
customer. It was several hundred K in size and Notepad just couldn't
handle it. Textpad coped no problem.

I use it for PHP (syntax highlight, auto indent, bracket matching etc)
and all other text file viewing/manipulation activities. With a lack
of tools such as grep and diff on Windows, Textpad is a fine
substitute.

--
David ( @priz.co.uk )

[Jeffrey Silverman]

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 04:59:23 +0000, B. Johannessen wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Jeffrey Silverman wrote:

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 13:08:01 +0100, Daytha wrote:

dreamweaver )-> menu )-> CLean up word HTML

Argh! I knew there was an easier way...
Except...
I run Linux. Only Linux. And thus, I do not have DW installed.

Tidy: http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett/tidy/
Bob

<snip!>

Thanks, Tidy helps a little.

But... It doesn't fully clean up all the XML and fixed positioning
gobbeldygook that FrontPage stuck in.

later...

--
Jeffrey D. Silverman | jeffrey AT jhu DOT edu
Website | http://www.wse.jhu.edu/newtnotes/

[Jeffrey Silverman]

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 17:42:45 +0000, skyweb wrote:

Jeffrey Silverman ha scritto:

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 13:08:01 +0100, Daytha wrote:

dreamweaver )-> menu )-> CLean up word HTML
;-)

Argh! I knew there was an easier way...

Except...

I run Linux. Only Linux. And thus, I do not have DW installed.

Curse you, Macromedia (and Adobe) for not porting your products to Linux!

with CrossOffice you can install Dreamweaver MX :)

I did not know that. I actually use Crossover for MS Office. But I was
under the impression that DWMX will not work very well. I tried Flash MX
Studio under Crossover (or whatever that's called) and it *almost* works.

--
Jeffrey D. Silverman | jeffrey AT jhu DOT edu
Website | http://www.wse.jhu.edu/newtnotes/

[Dan Tripp]

David Mackenzie wrote:

I use it for PHP (syntax highlight, auto indent, bracket matching etc)
and all other text file viewing/manipulation activities. With a lack
of tools such as grep and diff on Windows, Textpad is a fine
substitute.

And it's only $27 to own legally. =)

- Dan
http://blog.dantripp.com/

[M. Katz]

On Mac OS X, is one of the world's best text-editing, coding,
development tools: BBEdit by Barebones Software.
http://www.barebones.com/products/bbedit/

It's clean and solid. it has fantastic search and replace tools with
regular expressions. It makes quick work of hundreds of files at once.
It has syntax coloring for dozens of commen languages. It integrates
FTP and SFTP open/save so you can maintain a remote site without
leaving the program. Line numbering and a thousand other
customizations don't seem to bloat or slow the program in any way. It
can suggest HTML and CSS syntax. For web coding, it even has
integrated preview right within the program if you want, based on the
same rendering engine that drives Safari, or you can preview in any
other internet browsers.

This program is such a pleasure to use, some people say it's reason
enough to get a Mac. :)

Did I mention that CVS is built in as well.

M. Katz

[David Mackenzie]

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 15:19:23 GMT, Dan Tripp
<th*******@MyEMailAddress.com> wrote:

David Mackenzie wrote:

I use it for PHP (syntax highlight, auto indent, bracket matching etc)
and all other text file viewing/manipulation activities. With a lack
of tools such as grep and diff on Windows, Textpad is a fine
substitute.

And it's only $27 to own legally. =)

Which I do.

--
David ( @priz.co.uk )

[Ian.H]

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:53:48 +0000, David Mackenzie wrote:

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 15:19:23 GMT, Dan Tripp <th*******@MyEMailAddress.com>
wrote:

David Mackenzie wrote:

I use it for PHP (syntax highlight, auto indent, bracket matching etc)
and all other text file viewing/manipulation activities. With a lack of
tools such as grep and diff on Windows, Textpad is a fine substitute.

And it's only $27 to own legally. =)

Which I do.

GVim is free and _MUCH_ more flexible than TextPad ;)

Regards,

Ian

--
Ian.H
digiServ Network
London, UK
http://digiserv.net/

[Jeffrey Silverman]

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:14:27 +0000, Ian.H wrote:

<snip!>

GVim is free and _MUCH_ more flexible than TextPad ;)

Regards,

Ian

But has a *much* steeper learning curve. (although less of a learning
curve than straight-up Vi on account of Gvim's GUI capabilities)

Not that I don't use Gvim. I do. It rocks the coding booty hole, so to
speak. (I know I'm a geek when I get all excited about Vi and its clones!)

--
Jeffrey D. Silverman | jeffrey AT jhu DOT edu
Website | http://www.wse.jhu.edu/newtnotes/

[Matt Curtis]

bk***********@yahoo.com (Brad Kent) wrote in message news:<7a**************************@posting.google. com>...

I use textpad (www.textpad.com)
It's a great "notepad on steroids" for windows.

It looks like textpad.com has been down for the past few days, anyone
know what's up with that? I want to download add-ons!