a PHP Confession:

[ww]

Hi, my name is Will and I have been using PHP for over 4 months.

I first started using PHP over here and just today I started and
completed this page in under a few hours.

Now don't even begin to think that I know PHP, the only functions I
remember are, print(), echo(), require(), and date(), and I don't even
know what all date() really does. I am a *copy-and-paster* when it
comes to PHP. So how did I develop this extremly simple databse-driven
guest book? Dreamweaver.

Dreamweaver got me connected to the DB, I just passed it the DB name,
host name, user name, pass, etc.. and it created the code for me. It
took care of pagination and page navigation for me too! PAGINATION
people! It's not cleaner than my perl code, but I didn't have to think
about it, I just clicked a few buttons.

This is scary to me. I had no idea how easy it actually was to
implement PHP with Dreamweaver. I wonder how many little *web
designers* out there are putting out web pages left and right by
simply dragging and clicking in DW.

First off, this is threatening to those like me that actually code,
and secondly, it's scary because I'm afraid that I may become
converted to PHP. The thought makes my skin crawl, however the next
easy MySQL project I get will probably be done in PHP/Dreamweaver.

T£ also: http://silent11.com/blog/archives/000180.html

-w w

[elyob]

"ww" <ww3140@_yah-oo.com> wrote in message
news:au********************************@4ax.com...

Hi, my name is Will and I have been using PHP for over 4 months.

I first started using PHP over here and just today I started and
completed this page in under a few hours.

Now don't even begin to think that I know PHP, the only functions I
remember are, print(), echo(), require(), and date(), and I don't even
know what all date() really does. I am a *copy-and-paster* when it
comes to PHP. So how did I develop this extremly simple databse-driven
guest book? Dreamweaver.

Dreamweaver got me connected to the DB, I just passed it the DB name,
host name, user name, pass, etc.. and it created the code for me. It
took care of pagination and page navigation for me too! PAGINATION
people! It's not cleaner than my perl code, but I didn't have to think
about it, I just clicked a few buttons.

This is scary to me. I had no idea how easy it actually was to
implement PHP with Dreamweaver. I wonder how many little *web
designers* out there are putting out web pages left and right by
simply dragging and clicking in DW.

First off, this is threatening to those like me that actually code,
and secondly, it's scary because I'm afraid that I may become
converted to PHP. The thought makes my skin crawl, however the next
easy MySQL project I get will probably be done in PHP/Dreamweaver.

It's fine with me. I know how to code PHP and don't use Dreamweaver. I get
work because of my knowledge of the language. Hope to see you in an
interview ;)

[Ian.H]

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 02:24:45 +0000, ww wrote:
[ snip agreed about scary thoughts and drag-n-drool "coding" ]

First off, this is threatening to those like me that actually code, and
secondly, it's scary because I'm afraid that I may become converted to
PHP. The thought makes my skin crawl, however the next easy MySQL project
I get will probably be done in PHP/Dreamweaver.

I went from Perl to PHP about 6 years ago.. never looked back for Web
development, never seen any reason to. PHP IMO, is much more flexible for
Web development than Perl will ever be.. that said, I religiously use Perl
for any system admin coding.. a couple of Perl/Tk GUI things and for IRC
admin bots =)

Regards,

Ian

--
Ian.H [Design & Development]
digiServ Network - Web solutions
www.digiserv.net | irc.digiserv.net | forum.digiserv.net
Programming, Web design, development & hosting.

[Disco Plumber]

Ian.H (66.676% quality rating):

Web development than Perl will ever be.. that said, I religiously use Perl
for any system admin coding..

I find bash scripting and PHP to be more than adequate for sysadmin stuff.

/joe
--
Pink punches Mitch Kispert, and then slowly spits out arv("Littering
and...?");.

[Paulus Magnus]

"ww" <ww3140@_yah-oo.com> wrote in message
news:au********************************@4ax.com...

This is scary to me. I had no idea how easy it actually was to
implement PHP with Dreamweaver. I wonder how many little *web
designers* out there are putting out web pages left and right by
simply dragging and clicking in DW.

First off, this is threatening to those like me that actually code,
and secondly, it's scary because I'm afraid that I may become
converted to PHP. The thought makes my skin crawl, however the next
easy MySQL project I get will probably be done in PHP/Dreamweaver.

There are many web designers out there that actually think they're web
designers rather than simply graphics designers. This is why I personally
prefer the term web developer as it encompasses web design, graphical design
as well as the technical environment, programming, site promotion and
ongoing management.

We've seen how FrontPage has brought many people into the web site market
using these sorts of simplified methods so I see no problem. Making
something accessible to the mass market doesn't make them experts, although
it often makes them think that. Driving a car each day doesn't mean we can
all turn into world rally champions. It just changes things and as long as
the employers are not hood-winked into employing people with cut-and-paste
abilities we'll be OK.

On second thoughts we're f***ed then. ;)

*changes career path to rally driving*

[R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah]

"Paulus Magnus" <pa***********@loves-spam.com> wrote in message news:<bp**********@titan.btinternet.com>...

"ww" <ww3140@_yah-oo.com> wrote in message
news:au********************************@4ax.com...
<snip>
There are many web designers out there that actually think they're web
designers rather than simply graphics designers. This is why I personally
prefer the term web developer
I really love this word :)
as it encompasses web design, graphical design
as well as the technical environment, programming, site promotion and
ongoing management.

---
"Too much of something is less than nothing."
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com

[Geoff Berrow]

I noticed that Message-ID: <bp**********@titan.btinternet.com> from
Paulus Magnus contained the following:

We've seen how FrontPage has brought many people into the web site market
using these sorts of simplified methods so I see no problem. Making
something accessible to the mass market doesn't make them experts, although
it often makes them think that. Driving a car each day doesn't mean we can
all turn into world rally champions. It just changes things and as long as
the employers are not hood-winked into employing people with cut-and-paste
abilities we'll be OK.

On second thoughts we're f***ed then. ;)

I haven't got the latest DW so can't use these fancy PHP features.
However, I've used some of DWs automated features before (eg javascript
rollovers) and they are great.

The problem comes if you want to customise something outside the
parameters. DW has a photo album creator which is great as far as it
goes. But the album it creates does not use a style sheet and so is a
pain to customise. Some day I will figure how to edit this procedure
but it's not obvious.

I'm glad I can code stuff from scratch because I think it gives me a
better chance of customising pre written code, should I need to use it.

--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

[Warren Oates]

In article <rd********************************@4ax.com>,
Geoff Berrow <bl******@ckdog.co.uk> wrote:

:The problem comes if you want to customise something outside the
:parameters. DW has a photo album creator which is great as far as it
:goes. But the album it creates does not use a style sheet and so is a
:pain to customise. Some day I will figure how to edit this procedure
:but it's not obvious.

At some point even DW _must_ produce a text-only html file, no? You can
edit this with your favourite text editor* to do anything you want. Once
you've done it a few times and understand what's going on, you'll
probably chuck DW for good.

* 'text editor' NOT 'word processor' unless you're very very careful. I
think in Windoze you have something called Wordpad (that opens when you
view source, which is actually kind of neat).
--
Looks like more of Texas to me.
.... Arizona, where the nights are warm and the roads are straight.

[Geoff Berrow]

I noticed that Message-ID:
<Wa**************************@nr-tor01.bellnexxia.net> from Warren Oates
contained the following:

:The problem comes if you want to customise something outside the
:parameters. DW has a photo album creator which is great as far as it
:goes. But the album it creates does not use a style sheet and so is a
:pain to customise. Some day I will figure how to edit this procedure
:but it's not obvious.

At some point even DW _must_ produce a text-only html file, no? You can
edit this with your favourite text editor* to do anything you want. Once
you've done it a few times and understand what's going on, you'll
probably chuck DW for good.

You misunderstand. Using this procedure DW produces a whole load of
html files automatically, complete with previous and next links and
links to the index page of thumbnail images which it also creates
automatically by linking to Fireworks. It's a very quick way of
producing an album. But there is little choice over what the final
album looks like. I need to know how to modify the code that generates
the html so that I can get it to include style markup and a link to an
external stylesheet

See:
http://www.ckdog.co.uk/a_walk_in_the_park/

--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

[Warren Oates]

In article <e2********************************@4ax.com>,
Geoff Berrow <bl******@ckdog.co.uk> wrote:

:But there is little choice over what the final
:album looks like. I need to know how to modify the code that generates
:the html so that I can get it to include style markup and a link to an
:external stylesheet
:
:See:
:http://www.ckdog.co.uk/a_walk_in_the_park/

Well, if you're only doing these for you own use, the html is pretty
simple, you should be able to go through the code by hand and lay out
the pictures with straight CSS positioning or CSS plus tables, and it
really shouldn't take you more than an hour or so to get the whole thing
to validate for strict xhtml. I have no problem with people using tables
for that kind of layout; I don't believe that the Web is any more
"special" than any other form of information/entertainment media. I
mean, you can't buy a braille News of the World down at your local
newsagent's, can you? Or a spoken version of the Dandy? And no one
complains about that.

Getting back on topic, there's some interesting photo gallery stuff
using PHP and databases (or not) on Freshmeat.
--
Looks like more of Texas to me.
.... Arizona, where the nights are warm and the roads are straight.

[Geoff Berrow]

I noticed that Message-ID:
<Wa**************************@nr-ott02.bellnexxia.net> from Warren Oates
contained the following:

:See:
:http://www.ckdog.co.uk/a_walk_in_the_park/

Well, if you're only doing these for you own use, the html is pretty
simple, you should be able to go through the code by hand and lay out
the pictures with straight CSS positioning or CSS plus tables, and it
really shouldn't take you more than an hour or so to get the whole thing
to validate for strict xhtml.

Well, having started me thinking about it, I decided to see if the
command was editable. Turns out, it is, because it is written in
javascript. So I have tweaked it to add a link to an external
stylesheet. I'll also be able to add other CSS markup. So changing the
look of the album will be a simple matter of changing the stylesheet.

But you are right, there are some nice PHP albums out there (said he,
also getting back on topic). ;-)

--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

[Jerry Sievers]

pleased to meet you!

there's nothing wrong with what you are doing and you are just one of
many.

if your work consists of nothing but trivial sites with uninteresting
dataprocessing backends, you can go an entire career this way.

i don't agree with this approach and choose not to use WYSIWYG tools.

have a look at an old (1996 vintage) article i wrote on this topic.

http://www.jerrysievers.com/Articles...=fakingIt.html

to each his own.

ww <ww3140@_yah-oo.com> writes:

Hi, my name is Will and I have been using PHP for over 4 months.

I first started using PHP over here and just today I started and
completed this page in under a few hours.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Sievers 305 854-3001 (home) Unix Administrator/Consultant
305 321-1144 (mobile http://www.JerrySievers.com/

[FLEB]

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:46:42 +0000 (UTC), Paulus Magnus wrote:

There are many web designers out there that actually think they're web
designers rather than simply graphics designers. This is why I personally
prefer the term web developer as it encompasses web design, graphical design
as well as the technical environment, programming, site promotion and
ongoing management.

Then again, there are a lot of web developers* out there who think they're
web designers. Being a graphic designer by training and a web developer by
interest and study, I've seen 'em both.
* BTW- I don't mean to refer to you or anyone else specifically. I don't
know you or your work. It's just that "developer" is just a good term for
it.
-- Rudy Fleminger
-- [e-mail]
(put "Hey!" in the Subject line for priority processing!)
-- http://www.pixelsaredead.com