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How much are PHP programmers paid in Germany?

P: n/a
If someone can help me; how much EUR per hour (average) is standard payment
for PHP programmers in Germany? Thank you!

--
Relaxen und watch das blinkenlights...
Jul 17 '05 #1
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21 Replies


P: n/a
"Cpt. Zeep" <ze**@proning-dhi.hr> schrieb:
If someone can help me; how much EUR per hour (average) is standard payment
for PHP programmers in Germany? Thank you!


I'm not sure about the average, but my company will get for my work as
PHP developer >=100 EURO / hour.

Regards,
Matthias
Jul 17 '05 #2

P: n/a
Hi Zeep!

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:35:07 +0200, "Cpt. Zeep" <ze**@proning-dhi.hr>
wrote:
If someone can help me; how much EUR per hour (average) is standard payment
for PHP programmers in Germany? Thank you!


Don't know how your German is. www.gulp.de has information on
freelancer pricing.

HTH, Jochen

--
Jochen Daum - CANS Ltd.
PHP DB Edit Toolkit -- PHP scripts for building
database editing interfaces.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/phpdbedittk/
Jul 17 '05 #3

P: n/a
> If someone can help me; how much EUR per hour (average) is standard payment
for PHP programmers in Germany? Thank you!


we are programming for free!!!
Jul 17 '05 #4

P: n/a
Matthias Esken <mu******************@usenetverwaltung.org> wrote in message news:<bn**********@usenet.esken.de>...
"Cpt. Zeep" <ze**@proning-dhi.hr> schrieb:
If someone can help me; how much EUR per hour (average) is standard payment
for PHP programmers in Germany? Thank you!


I'm not sure about the average, but my company will get for my work as
PHP developer >=100 EURO / hour.


The Currency Converter found at http://www.xe.com/ucc/ says
100.00 EUR
Euro = 5,269.78 INR India Rupees!!!!!!!! I think, you guys can
work only one hour in a month!!!

---
"US got a nuclear bomb that can destroy the world 13 times. Russia
got a nuclear bomb that can destroy the world 7 times. But...my
friend! Tell me! CAN YOU KILL A MAN TWICE??!!!!!" -- P.A.Sangma, Peace
loving Indian politician against India's step to go for a nuclear
test.
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com
Jul 17 '05 #5

P: n/a
ng**********@rediffmail.com (R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah) schrieb:
The Currency Converter found at http://www.xe.com/ucc/ says
100.00 EUR
Euro = 5,269.78 INR India Rupees!!!!!!!! I think, you guys can
work only one hour in a month!!!


I'm not a freelancer. That's not the money I get, that's the money the
company gets from the customer for selling me and my work.

Regards,
Matthias
Jul 17 '05 #6

P: n/a
"<- Chameleon ->" <ch******@hotmail.NOSPAM.com> schrieb:
If someone can help me; how much EUR per hour (average) is standard payment
for PHP programmers in Germany? Thank you!


we are programming for free!!!


In fact, I do a lot for free.

That's why I have to get some more money for the paid jobs.

Regards,
Matthias
Jul 17 '05 #7

P: n/a
Hi R!

On 20 Oct 2003 22:16:12 -0700, ng**********@rediffmail.com (R. Rajesh
Jeba Anbiah) wrote:
Matthias Esken <mu******************@usenetverwaltung.org> wrote in message news:<bn**********@usenet.esken.de>...
"Cpt. Zeep" <ze**@proning-dhi.hr> schrieb:
> If someone can help me; how much EUR per hour (average) is standard payment
> for PHP programmers in Germany? Thank you!


I'm not sure about the average, but my company will get for my work as
PHP developer >=100 EURO / hour.


The Currency Converter found at http://www.xe.com/ucc/ says
100.00 EUR
Euro = 5,269.78 INR India Rupees!!!!!!!! I think, you guys can
work only one hour in a month!!!

I think Matthias desribed a top-notch freelancer with a rate of 100
EUR, but I think its not impossible. Realise as well, that with German
bureaucracy, there is a rate of about 50/70% (exclusive/inclusive
health insurance) that you're looking at, minus equipment.

A lot of people think, you can just work anywhere as an IT freelancer,
so you would best be working for EUR sitting in India, but I think
this is in most cases not true (due to eg. that only big companies are
able to write specs)
jochen
--
Jochen Daum - CANS Ltd.
PHP DB Edit Toolkit -- PHP scripts for building
database editing interfaces.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/phpdbedittk/
Jul 17 '05 #8

P: n/a
<- Chameleon -> wrote:
If someone can help me; how much EUR per hour (average) is standard
payment for PHP programmers in Germany? Thank you!


we are programming for free!!!


:))
Thank you all for help!

--
Relaxen und watch das blinkenlights...
Jul 17 '05 #9

P: n/a
Matthias Esken <mu******************@usenetverwaltung.org> wrote in message news:<bn*********@usenet.esken.de>...
ng**********@rediffmail.com (R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah) schrieb:
The Currency Converter found at http://www.xe.com/ucc/ says
100.00 EUR
Euro = 5,269.78 INR India Rupees!!!!!!!! I think, you guys can
work only one hour in a month!!!


I'm not a freelancer. That's not the money I get, that's the money the
company gets from the customer for selling me and my work.


I wonder, why almost all PHP programmers are working in sweatshops...
---
"If there is a God, he must be a sadist!"
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com
Jul 17 '05 #10

P: n/a
Jochen Daum <jo*********@cans.co.nz> wrote in message news:<u7********************************@4ax.com>. ..

<snip>
A lot of people think, you can just work anywhere as an IT freelancer,
so you would best be working for EUR sitting in India, but I think
this is in most cases not true (due to eg. that only big companies are
able to write specs)


I couldn't understand your reasons. Big companies are nothing but
just more people. In India, a jobless guy is 1000 times better than at
least 20 guys sitting in big companies.

In small companies, people don't write specs because the amount they
receive is very less. And it doesn't mean that they don't know how to
write specs/documentations.

Just take PHP or Linux or Napster. Are all these products developed
in big companies?

---
"If there is a God, he must be a sadist!"
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com
Jul 17 '05 #11

P: n/a
Hello Rajesh,

R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote:
Matthias Esken <mu******************@usenetverwaltung.org> wrote in
I'm not sure about the average, but my company will get for my work as
PHP developer >=100 EURO / hour.


The Currency Converter found at http://www.xe.com/ucc/ says
100.00 EUR
Euro = 5,269.78 INR India Rupees!!!!!!!! I think, you guys can
work only one hour in a month!!!


So in India 100 EUR is enough to pay everything you need for a month ?
In Europe ( Netherlands in my case ) it's not even enough
to pay the rent for the apartment for a week.

That's why the salaries differ so much between India <=> Europe/America.
Cost of living differs a lot.

Best regards,

Eric
Jul 17 '05 #12

P: n/a
R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote:
Jochen Daum <jo*********@cans.co.nz> wrote in message
news:<u7********************************@4ax.com>. ..

<snip>
A lot of people think, you can just work anywhere as an IT freelancer,
so you would best be working for EUR sitting in India, but I think
this is in most cases not true (due to eg. that only big companies are
able to write specs)


I couldn't understand your reasons. Big companies are nothing but
just more people. In India, a jobless guy is 1000 times better than at
least 20 guys sitting in big companies.

In small companies, people don't write specs because the amount they
receive is very less. And it doesn't mean that they don't know how to
write specs/documentations.


I think Jochen means that companies that hire freelance programmers usually
don't regard programming as their core business. Therefore they have less
experience with writing specs for software, which increases the need for
extensive communication between company and freelancer before and during
the project. Extensive communication is a lot harder if the freelancer is a
remote worker. And don't start talking about video conferencing.

Best regards,

Eric
Jul 17 '05 #13

P: n/a
Jochen Daum <jo*********@cans.co.nz> schrieb:
I think Matthias desribed a top-notch freelancer with a rate of 100
EUR, but I think its not impossible.


It's the rate that the company I'm working for will get from the
customer. On the other hand it's not only PHP, it's a good knowledge of
DB technology (e.g. Oracle) and the ability to understand the customers
wishes, being a good team player, write specifications on different
levels and so on.

Regards,
Matthias
Jul 17 '05 #14

P: n/a
Eric Veltman <eric@[RemoveThis]veltman.nu> wrote in message news:<vp************@corp.supernews.com>...
Hello Rajesh,

R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote:
Matthias Esken <mu******************@usenetverwaltung.org> wrote in
I'm not sure about the average, but my company will get for my work as
PHP developer >=100 EURO / hour.
The Currency Converter found at http://www.xe.com/ucc/ says
100.00 EUR
Euro = 5,269.78 INR India Rupees!!!!!!!! I think, you guys can
work only one hour in a month!!!


So in India 100 EUR is enough to pay everything you need for a month ?


It depends upon your life style. Guys working in big IT companies
draw about 30-50 thousand a month on average. There are guys who wear
costly shirts that costs about 2,000 and go for party (which is a
recent trend because of some kinda Westernisation) for which they
charge 1,000-10,000.... If you lead a simple life---without any
bike/car/PC/costly dresses/show-off, 5,000 is quite enough.
In Europe ( Netherlands in my case ) it's not even enough
to pay the rent for the apartment for a week.
I don't know about Netherlands. But, I guess the rent depends upon
the style of the apartment. Again, I think you could lead a simple
life in Netherlands with less dollars.
That's why the salaries differ so much between India <=> Europe/America.
Cost of living differs a lot.


I don't think, it's __cost of living__, but it is *life style*

---
"If there is a God, he must be a sadist!"
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com
Jul 17 '05 #15

P: n/a
Eric Veltman <eric@[RemoveThis]veltman.nu> wrote in message news:<vp************@corp.supernews.com>...
R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote:
Jochen Daum <jo*********@cans.co.nz> wrote in message
news:<u7********************************@4ax.com>. ..

<snip>
I think Jochen means that companies that hire freelance programmers usually
don't regard programming as their core business.
I never heard this before. I don't understand how far it is
true...
Therefore they have less
experience with writing specs for software, which increases the need for
extensive communication between company and freelancer before and during
the project.
Extensive communication is a lot harder if the freelancer is a
remote worker. And don't start talking about video conferencing.


I don't find anything wrong with video conferencing as it is a
good communication tool.

---
"If there is a God, he must be a sadist!"
Email: rrjanbiah-at-Y!com
Jul 17 '05 #16

P: n/a
Hello Rajesh,

R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote:
That's why the salaries differ so much between India <=> Europe/America.
Cost of living differs a lot.


I don't think, it's __cost of living__, but it is *life style*


Of course cost of living also depends on lifestyle. But in the Netherlands
and I think in most other European countries as well, 100 EUR is not enough
for anyone, not even for a person with the most sober lifestyle that you can
imagine. With 100 EUR you have to live on the streets in a cardboard box,
which reminds me of a song by the way :-) I am _not_ exaggerating here !

If you don't believe me, if you think I'm just living a too fancy life,
I recommend you do some proper research, talk to some people who have lived
in Europe for some time and had to pay their own rent, taxes, food, fuel,
etc.

Best regards,

Eric
Jul 17 '05 #17

P: n/a
ng**********@rediffmail.com (R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah) schrieb:
Eric Veltman <eric@[RemoveThis]veltman.nu> wrote in message news:<vp************@corp.supernews.com>...
Hello Rajesh,

R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah wrote:
Matthias Esken <mu******************@usenetverwaltung.org> wrote in
I'm not sure about the average, but my company will get for my work as
PHP developer >=100 EURO / hour.

The Currency Converter found at http://www.xe.com/ucc/ says
100.00 EUR
Euro = 5,269.78 INR India Rupees!!!!!!!! I think, you guys can
work only one hour in a month!!!
So in India 100 EUR is enough to pay everything you need for a month ?


It depends upon your life style. Guys working in big IT companies
draw about 30-50 thousand a month on average.


Good for you.

Now for the real calculation[1]. The company gets 100 EURO per hour. The
programmer works 40 hours a week and 4 weeks a month. That would(!) be
16.000 EURO. Now keep in mind that the programmer has e.g. 30 days payed
holiday per year, might be sick some days, needs time to learn and is
not sold to a customer every day. That leaves the company with an
average of maybe 11.000 EURO per month. The company has to rent an
office, hire staff for the internal work, buy new hardware and new
software and so on. Calculate an average share for each co-worker this
would cut down the income to 9.000 EURO. Then the company is willing to
pay the programmer let's say 5.000 EURO per month and has to pay 7.000
EURO because there are extra expenses for the social system. The
programmer get's 5.000 EURO and has to pay taxes and his share of the
money for the social system which will leave him with 2.500 EURO per
month.

The company got a result of 2.000 EURO per month which will be further
cut down by taxes and the programmer gets 2.500 EURO. Wonder where all
the money has gone? See above and read it again!

Now the programmer has his 2.500 EURO and pays 750 EURO as the rent for
a house for his family so he has 1.750 EURO to spend. He goes to a
restaurant once a month with his family and another 60 EURO are gone.
He's a smoker and needs a package of cigarettes each days, which will
add up to 100 EURO a month. He' ll have to buy food and clothes. And so
on and so on and so on ...
I don't think, it's __cost of living__, but it is *life style*


Life is no problem with the resulting 2.500 EURO but that's far far far
away from being rich.

Regards,
Matthias

[1] In fact, the numbers might be quite rough, but they give a good idea
about the reality.
Jul 17 '05 #18

P: n/a
> The Currency Converter found at http://www.xe.com/ucc/ says
100.00 EUR
Euro = 5,269.78 INR India Rupees!!!!!!!! I think, you guys can
work only one hour in a month!!!


Errrr... you are probably not aware of the cost of life differences
between India and Germany.

Whenever you are dealing with money conversion, try to find out
what is possible to buy for that money in the two different
countries. How many people can eat, in an average restaurant
with 5,269.78 INR? I can tell you that a 100 EUR dinner in an
average city restaurant in Germany is a dinner for 3, maximum 4
people.

What I mean is that the currency conversion isn't really
useful to compare wages across borders. For example, appearently
here in the UK you can buy with 1 British Pound the same stuff
that in Europe you buy with 1 EUR and in the US with 1 Dollar.
This has exceptions but in terms of daily life, after a bit of
experience moving around, it's something that tends to be true.

Ciao ciao!

anu
Jul 17 '05 #19

P: n/a
I do aggree with Erik and all other european guys. Cost of living is
pretty high in Netherlands(and in Europe) that I cannot accept jobs
less than 40 euro per hour(I have my own company that I turned one
room of my house to an office).

Because
I pay 1/3 of my income as tax
I pay my pension
I pay my insurances
I pay my internet connection(45 euro per month)
I pay one time cost for printer/computer/software( Did you know
Microsoft Visual Studio .NET is around 2000 euro)

And
I do not earn money when I am on vacation, when I break my
arm(football), when I dont have a project( Yeah we have economic
slowdown here still)
If I charge less, better I go for full time job because it provides
lots of security, which includes pension, insurances, payment when
sick, vacation money.

Working in India and Europe is totally different. Hard to make one to
one comparision.

PS: There are people in my city who has to live with their parents
because they are not able to find a house for the last 3 years. Yes
even if you want to pay around around 400 euro per month, you can not
get a house.

Gokhan Arli
Web Developer
www.sylow.net
Jul 17 '05 #20

P: n/a
> PS: There are people in my city who has to live with their parents
because they are not able to find a house for the last 3 years. Yes
even if you want to pay around around 400 euro per month, you can not
get a house.


400 euro (GBP 275) a month! Try living in London mate; Going rate for a
two bed flat where I live is more like GBP 1200 (1744 euro).

Jul 17 '05 #21

P: n/a
Gokhan ARLI wrote:
I do aggree with Erik and all other european guys. Cost of living is
pretty high in Netherlands(and in Europe) that I cannot accept jobs
less than 40 euro per hour(I have my own company that I turned one
room of my house to an office).

Because
I pay 1/3 of my income as tax
I pay my pension
I pay my insurances
I pay my internet connection(45 euro per month)
I pay one time cost for printer/computer/software( Did you know
Microsoft Visual Studio .NET is around 2000 euro)

And
I do not earn money when I am on vacation, when I break my
arm(football), when I dont have a project( Yeah we have economic
slowdown here still)
If I charge less, better I go for full time job because it provides
lots of security, which includes pension, insurances, payment when
sick, vacation money.

Working in India and Europe is totally different. Hard to make one to
one comparision.

PS: There are people in my city who has to live with their parents
because they are not able to find a house for the last 3 years. Yes
even if you want to pay around around 400 euro per month, you can not
get a house.

Gokhan Arli
Web Developer
www.sylow.net


Think Europe is bad? Try living in the Silicon Valley. (San Jose, CA, USA)
Thankfully I'm not completely out on my own yet (college student) so I
don't have to pay 1/3-1/2 a million USD for a stinking 3 bedroom 2 bath
house with no yard.
-Eric Kincl
Jul 17 '05 #22

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