469,352 Members | 1,641 Online
Bytes | Developer Community
New Post

Home Posts Topics Members FAQ

Post your question to a community of 469,352 developers. It's quick & easy.

PHP is the VB of Linux

I guess I'm talking to get this off my chest. I guess I'm talking to
the newbies out there wondering if they want to remain on ASP.NET, C#,
JSP, or whatever, or whether they want to do their next project in
PHP.

Okay. I moved from Microsoft Windows 2000 and Visual Basic and ASP to
Linux and JSP. I plan to stay on Linux now. Let's just say that I did
it, but JSP was aggravating. I had to type 10 times more code than I
felt I had to, and the data types always got in my way. Often I would
have to write some code, fix it, recompile again, then test, find a
bug, go back, etc. -- the compilation step was aggravating and slowed
things down a great deal. I kept wanting a VB for Linux.

Then, I started working with PHP and MySQL because I felt it had
finally matured. To my surprise, besides the {} and ;, PHP pretty much
is the VB of Linux thanks to the raw speed of the Zend PHP4 engine, if
not the PHP5 one around the corner. With PHP, I don't have to worry
about data types, mess with the slow compilation step, have the pain
of adding the JDBC connector to JSP, and I can write 10 times less
code and still have pretty fast pages. And, since you can now compile
PHP, you can run even faster than JSP if you need to do so. To top
things off, PHP is soon going to have a cross-platform GTK+ windowing
engine so that one can make standalone apps or client/server form
apps.

When I say VB and ASP, I didn't mean VB.NET. I took a class in VB.NET
and had to write code in C# and ASP.NET. Microsoft made some things
easier, and some things were ten times harder. I found the XML/XSLT
library sucked and was incomplete compared to the old one. Plus, I
realized I was writing for an unstable, unsecure, proprietary platform
that is doing nothing but get more and more complex. I thought, if
Windows is going in the direction of complexity and lock-in, and Linux
and Java is doing a 180 on that, and things have matured with Linux
and Java, why don't I just make the move, wholesale, to Linux? And it
was done. At first I liked JSP just to be free from Microsoft, but I'm
very glad I finally moved to PHP, where I plan to stay.

RedHat 9 made Apache, PHP, and MySQL a snap to install -- using
nothing but 6 checkboxes on the Add/Remove Programs and inserting the
disks.

Right now, the buzz is all about MySQL and LAMP, but with PostgreSQL
starting to grow up, and because of MySQL's licensing changes, we all
might be moving to LAPP with PostgreSQL, remaining open source.

So, anyway, I'm thinking about writing a work order management system
/ CRM as either a PHP web app, or a PHP/MySQL (or PostgreSQL)
appliance. I plan to make an open source version, and then a
customized version that I can sell for cash. The appliance would be a
rackmount 2 drive hardware mirror, AMD proc., with tape drive. Yes, it
would be built on Linux. You would manage the appliance with a web
browser and it would do nothing but feed it the daily tapes, keep it
in a cool, dust-free environment, and give it a nice UPS.

So, newbies, if you are looking for the "VB" in Linux, look no further
than PHP. It has matured.
Jul 17 '05 #1
24 3220
Google Mike wrote:
I guess I'm talking to get this off my chest.
An excellent post.
I kept wanting a VB for Linux.
http://www.realbasic.com/realbasic/index.php

According to the website Version 5.5 which is due RSN will also support
Linux.

As much as I love PHP this is very tempting at least for building user
GUI frontends.
To top things off, PHP is soon going to have a cross-platform GTK+
windowing engine so that one can make standalone apps or
client/server form apps.
While that is great until it gets a decent RAD IDE it is still going to
be best suited to the command line, and web.
RedHat 9 made Apache, PHP, and MySQL a snap to install -- using
nothing but 6 checkboxes on the Add/Remove Programs and inserting the
disks.
RH9 is very nice, I'm very happy not only with it, but the RHN too.
Right now, the buzz is all about MySQL and LAMP, but with PostgreSQL
starting to grow up, and because of MySQL's licensing changes, we all
might be moving to LAPP with PostgreSQL, remaining open source.
IMHO Postgresql is WAY ahead of MySQL, and has been for a couple of
years. Postgresql I believe is only a year or two from being real
competition to Oracle.
So, anyway, I'm thinking about writing a work order management system
/ CRM as either a PHP web app, or a PHP/MySQL (or PostgreSQL)
appliance. I plan to make an open source version, and then a
customized version that I can sell for cash. The appliance would be a
rackmount 2 drive hardware mirror, AMD proc., with tape drive. Yes,
it would be built on Linux. You would manage the appliance with a web
browser and it would do nothing but feed it the daily tapes, keep it
in a cool, dust-free environment, and give it a nice UPS.
An interesting business opportunity for sure, best of luck on your project.
So, newbies, if you are looking for the "VB" in Linux, look no
further than PHP. It has matured.


I'll agree to that. I have fallen in love with PHP this past year. I
slaved away with PERL and shell scripting for years to build server side
tools and interfaces as a systems administrator. Then I found PHP, and
while it started as a need to fix some web page tools, I soon found PHP
was very good off the web too. I now do all my coding in PHP.... PERL,
and BASH scripts are a thing of the past for me. I now actually enjoy
coding again. Most of the stuff I'm doing uses Postgresql as a database
and custom sockets for interfacing to business systems. It is amazing
how much easier it is because of PHP.

--
/---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---\
I ph***********@libertydice.org II No nation was ever ruined by I
I http://www.libertydice.org II trade, even seemingly the most I
I remove "3d6" to e-mail II disadvantageous. - Ben Franklin I
\---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/

Jul 17 '05 #2
Pham Nuwen wrote:
Google Mike wrote:
I guess I'm talking to get this off my chest.


An excellent post.


If PHP is the VB of Linux, what is the Fosters ?

--
Spam:newsgroup(at)cr*********@verisign-sux-klj.com
EMail:<0110001100101110011000100111010101110010011 010110
11001010100000001100011011100100110000101111010011 011100
11000010111001000101110011000110110111101101101001 00000>
Jul 17 '05 #3
Pham Nuwen <ph***********@libertydice.org> wrote in message

IMHO Postgresql is WAY ahead of MySQL, and has been for a couple of
years. Postgresql I believe is only a year or two from being real
competition to Oracle.


I guess I just don't know enough about Postgresql. I would think this
would be very useful information to know when doing a PHP project. I'd
really rather go full open source with my projects, so perhaps I need
to give it a try.

I did notice at my rinky dink bookstore here in Florence, South
Carolina, though, that there were 5 books on Postgresql and about 12
books on either LAMP or MySQL. Last year, I never even knew Postgresql
existed. So, it looks like it's gaining on mindshare. I have to also
think that I have to sell my solutions to IT Departments. Right now,
they know LAMP. If I said this isn't LAMP, but LAPP, I just don't know
if they'd "get" it.

I noticed that RH9 comes with it and it looks about as easy as MySQL
to fire up from the services control panel.

MySQL has a pretty reliable GUI called MySQL Command Console (mysqlcc)
that makes things super easy for me, like using MS Access or MS SQL
Server. Is there an equivalent on Postgresql?

MySQL is very fast because it's not full ANSI-92, but, for the most
part, a useful subset of that. Because Postgresql is ANSI-92 to the
nines, wouldn't you think it would be far slower?
Jul 17 '05 #4
With total disregard for any kind of safety measures
go********@hotpop.com (Google Mike) leapt forth and uttered:
Pham Nuwen <ph***********@libertydice.org> wrote in message

MySQL is very fast because it's not full ANSI-92, but, for the
most part, a useful subset of that. Because Postgresql is
ANSI-92 to the nines, wouldn't you think it would be far slower?


MySQL always wins out in raw speed trials, but PostgreSQL kills it in
terms of scalability (ie the ability to handle massive databases
without significant performance loss.) Which makes it far more
attractive for very intensive uses and very busy web applications.

Also, as Postgre supports fun stuff like triggers and stored
procedures it makes it a hell of a lot more attractive for business
applications.

--
There is no signature.....
Jul 17 '05 #5
Phil Roberts wrote:
Also, as Postgre supports fun stuff like triggers and stored
procedures it makes it a hell of a lot more attractive for business
applications.


Not to mention the incredibly horrible vacuum cleaning in PG which
makes Postgress a complete horror in large scale databases anyway.

--
Spam:newsgroup(at)cr*********@verisign-sux-klj.com
EMail:<0110001100101110011000100111010101110010011 010110
11001010100000001100011011100100110000101111010011 011100
11000010111001000101110011000110110111101101101001 00000>
Jul 17 '05 #6
On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:21:04 -0700, Google Mike wrote:
PHP pretty much is the VB of Linux

Thank you Mike... you have just made my hall of most _stupid_ quotes!!!!!

1:> PHP != specifically Unix (so there goes your point!)
2:> VB == M$ Bullshit!!!!!!!!!! (and yes, I did used to use it)
3:> M$ == _Bad News_ period!
That's like comparing an innocent kid in a Xmas play and a serial
killer... feel free to bash yourself relentlessly with my cluebat.

Still, what a chuckle you have just given me.. thanks.

Regards,

Ian

--
Ian.H [Design & Development]
digiServ Network - Web solutions
www.digiserv.net | irc.digiserv.net | forum.digiserv.net
Programming, Web design, development & hosting.

Jul 17 '05 #7
Carved in mystic runes upon the very living rock, the last words of
Google Mike of comp.lang.php make plain:
starting to grow up, and because of MySQL's licensing changes, Licensing changes?
So, newbies, if you are looking for the "VB" in Linux, look no further
than PHP. It has matured.


As one who's worked extensively in both PHP and VBScript, your comparison
just about made me toss my cookies. I've started including little rants
in the comments in my VBScript code whenever I run into something
incredibly stupid, which really is quite often.

That said, I don't mean to knock you. I certainly can appreciate the
sentiment of your post. For someone who's worked only in VB and doesn't
know what a horrible, horrible "language" it is, your comparison is quite
apt.

But overall it's like comparing a high-grade, fine-tuned sports car to a
kiddie cart. VBScript is such a wannabe language. Then again, Windows is
such a wannabe OS. So I guess the comparison really is appropriate!

--
Alan Little
Phorm PHP Form Processor
http://www.phorm.com/
Jul 17 '05 #8
Google Mike wrote:
I guess I just don't know enough about Postgresql. I would think this
would be very useful information to know when doing a PHP project. I'd
really rather go full open source with my projects, so perhaps I need
to give it a try.
I would, it is far more robust than MySQL IMHO, and much closer to being
a real RDMS. besides the learning curve is pretty small, most of the
basic PHP/PG functions are almost the same except use pg_<function>
instead of mysql_<function>.
I did notice at my rinky dink bookstore here in Florence, South
Carolina, though, that there were 5 books on Postgresql and about 12
books on either LAMP or MySQL. Last year, I never even knew Postgresql
existed. So, it looks like it's gaining on mindshare. I have to also
think that I have to sell my solutions to IT Departments. Right now,
they know LAMP. If I said this isn't LAMP, but LAPP, I just don't know
if they'd "get" it.
http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2001/01/25/lamp.html

"Let the M stand for MySQL and PostGreSQL."

http://advocacy.postgresql.org/casestudies/
I noticed that RH9 comes with it and it looks about as easy as MySQL
to fire up from the services control panel.
Yep it is. once you fire it up you do:

su - postgres
createuser <your dba user>
<y>
<y>
createdb <your database name>
exit
edit /var/lib/pgsql/data/pg_hba.conf & postgresql.conf if you want it to
be available to the network on port 5432.
su - <your dba user>
psql <your database name>

and away you go.
MySQL has a pretty reliable GUI called MySQL Command Console (mysqlcc)
that makes things super easy for me, like using MS Access or MS SQL
Server. Is there an equivalent on Postgresql?
Several.

pgAdmin is the gui (availble for Linux & Windows).
phpPgAdmin is the web based counterpart to phpMyAdmin.
MySQL is very fast because it's not full ANSI-92, but, for the most
part, a useful subset of that. Because Postgresql is ANSI-92 to the
nines, wouldn't you think it would be far slower?


Not really, and anything it loses in speed, trust me it more than makes
up in functionality, and reliability.

--
/---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---\
I ph***********@libertydice.org II No nation was ever ruined by I
I http://www.libertydice.org II trade, even seemingly the most I
I remove "3d6" to e-mail II disadvantageous. - Ben Franklin I
\---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/

Jul 17 '05 #9
127.0.0.1 wrote:
Not to mention the incredibly horrible vacuum cleaning in PG which
makes Postgress a complete horror in large scale databases anyway.


What is so horrible about it? I don't have any troubles with it, and I
have tables with 1.5 Million rows.

--
/---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---\
I ph***********@libertydice.org II No nation was ever ruined by I
I http://www.libertydice.org II trade, even seemingly the most I
I remove "3d6" to e-mail II disadvantageous. - Ben Franklin I
\---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/

Jul 17 '05 #10
Pham Nuwen wrote:
Not to mention the incredibly horrible vacuum cleaning in PG which
makes Postgress a complete horror in large scale databases anyway.


What is so horrible about it? I don't have any troubles with it, and
I have tables with 1.5 Million rows.


Does the content of those tables change frequently, and do you have any
tall skinny tables ?

--
Spam:newsgroup(at)cr*********@verisign-sux-klj.com
EMail:<0110001100101110011000100111010101110010011 010110
11001010100000001100011011100100110000101111010011 011100
11000010111001000101110011000110110111101101101001 00000>
Jul 17 '05 #11
On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:03:05 GMT, Pham Nuwen wrote:
Not really, and anything it loses in speed, trust me it more than makes
up in functionality, and reliability.


When I did some research regarding the choice between MySQL and
Postgre, the major downside for Postgre was that some claimed
experineces of crashes and data loss, something that seems not to
happen with MySQL. For me, that was a major turn down (after all,
before features comes data in a data base). Do you have any comments
on that?
Jul 17 '05 #12
Pham Nuwen wrote:
Google Mike wrote:

To top things off, PHP is soon going to have a cross-platform GTK+
windowing engine so that one can make standalone apps or
client/server form apps.

While that is great until it gets a decent RAD IDE it is still going to
be best suited to the command line, and web.


There's GLADE. So, I'd assume that PHP has just as good of a RAD as C does.
Jul 17 '05 #13
Gerhard Fiedler <me@privacy.net> wrote...
When I did some research regarding the choice between MySQL and
Postgre, the major downside for Postgre was that some claimed
experineces of crashes and data loss, something that seems not to
happen with MySQL. For me, that was a major turn down (after all,
before features comes data in a data base). Do you have any comments
on that?


What a bummer. Before I consider PostgreSQL, I better know it's as
reliable as MySQL. I haven't had anything but great experiences with
MySQL. About the only thing that was a bummer for me was the odd
case-sensitivies with MySQL when accessing via PHP.
Jul 17 '05 #14
On 13 Oct 2003 06:58:11 -0700, Google Mike wrote:
About the only thing that was a bummer for me was the odd
case-sensitivies with MySQL when accessing via PHP.


Can you expand a bit on that? I haven't seen anything like this (and
would like to know before I start chasing something else in case it
happens to me :)
Jul 17 '05 #15
127.0.0.1 wrote:
Pham Nuwen wrote:

Not to mention the incredibly horrible vacuum cleaning in PG which
makes Postgress a complete horror in large scale databases anyway.


What is so horrible about it? I don't have any troubles with it, and
I have tables with 1.5 Million rows.


Does the content of those tables change frequently, and do you have any
tall skinny tables ?


Much to my dismay. It changes frequently and is skinnier than all get
out. (4 columns) There is a dba (and I use the term loosely here) out
there who should be shot over this table amongst others.

--
/---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---\
I ph***********@libertydice.org II No nation was ever ruined by I
I http://www.libertydice.org II trade, even seemingly the most I
I remove "3d6" to e-mail II disadvantageous. - Ben Franklin I
\---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/

Jul 17 '05 #16
Gerhard Fiedler wrote:
On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:03:05 GMT, Pham Nuwen wrote:
Not really, and anything it loses in speed, trust me it more than makes
up in functionality, and reliability.

When I did some research regarding the choice between MySQL and
Postgre, the major downside for Postgre was that some claimed
experineces of crashes and data loss, something that seems not to
happen with MySQL. For me, that was a major turn down (after all,
before features comes data in a data base). Do you have any comments
on that?


I've never had any problems with it. For what it's worth, I store
medical data in postgresql, and I wouldn't do that if I had any concerns
about it's reliability.

--
/---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---\
I ph***********@libertydice.org II No nation was ever ruined by I
I http://www.libertydice.org II trade, even seemingly the most I
I remove "3d6" to e-mail II disadvantageous. - Ben Franklin I
\---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/

Jul 17 '05 #17
Gerhard Fiedler <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:<5h********************************@4ax.com>. ..
On 13 Oct 2003 06:58:11 -0700, Google Mike wrote:
About the only thing that was a bummer for me was the odd
case-sensitivies with MySQL when accessing via PHP.


Can you expand a bit on that? I haven't seen anything like this (and
would like to know before I start chasing something else in case it
happens to me :)


Gerhard, you'll probably experience it. I did. I was having very odd
problems at first when working with PHP and MySQL. I was getting
replies that told me that my query worked, but that I could not
extract values from the associative array that was returned. The
reason in this case was because the SQL SELECT statements I was using
had lowercase field names, rather than specifying something like
asterisk (*). Then, when I tried to access the result as in
$myrow['FIRSTNAME'], it would fail unless I switched it to
$myrow['firstname']. I also found that, for some reason, I have to
have a FROM clause in my SQL statement that specifies my table names
exactly as they are specified in the database. So, I had to use
'Logins' and 'LOGINS' or 'logins' would not work in the FROM clause
without error. I don't know why this is, but I gave in and just gave
PHP's MySQL connector, and/or MySQL, whatever it wanted by switching
the case around until my code worked.
Jul 17 '05 #18
Google Mike wrote on Monday 13 October 2003 21:09:
Gerhard, you'll probably experience it. I did. I was having very odd
problems at first when working with PHP and MySQL. I was getting
replies that told me that my query worked, but that I could not
extract values from the associative array that was returned. The
reason in this case was because the SQL SELECT statements I was using
had lowercase field names, rather than specifying something like
asterisk (*). Then, when I tried to access the result as in
$myrow['FIRSTNAME'], it would fail unless I switched it to
$myrow['firstname']. I also found that, for some reason, I have to
have a FROM clause in my SQL statement that specifies my table names
exactly as they are specified in the database. So, I had to use
'Logins' and 'LOGINS' or 'logins' would not work in the FROM clause
without error. I don't know why this is, but I gave in and just gave
PHP's MySQL connector, and/or MySQL, whatever it wanted by switching
the case around until my code worked.


http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/Name_case_sensitivity.html

--
Business Web Solutions
ActiveLink, LLC
www.active-link.com/intranet/
Jul 17 '05 #19
Google Mike <go********@hotpop.com> wrote or quoted:
So, newbies, if you are looking for the "VB" in Linux, look no further
than PHP. It has matured.


Likening PHP to VB may be appropriate - but it is *NOT* a compliment!
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ ti*@tt1lock.org Remove lock to reply.
Jul 17 '05 #20
Tim Tyler <ti*@tt1lock.org> wrote:
Likening PHP to VB may be appropriate - but it is *NOT* a compliment!


My point is that I can used to get a lot done really fast in VB, and
now that I don't want to be on Windows for my development anymore, PHP
is something where I can knock out web business app projects really
fast. I believe I can knock them out much faster than JSP, Python,
Perl, etc.
Jul 17 '05 #21
On 13 Oct 2003 21:09:03 -0700, Google Mike wrote:
Gerhard, you'll probably experience it. ...


Oh... :) As Zurab commented, MySQL is case-sensitive on Linux for
example. When doing development on Windows and deploying on Linux,
that can be an issue, as you might notice a typo only on the server.

I'm used to programming in case-sensitive environments and tend to
maintain the case even in case-insensitive ones, but typos of course
may happen. Thanks for following up.
Jul 17 '05 #22
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:13:05 GMT, Pham Nuwen wrote:
When I did some research regarding the choice between MySQL and
Postgre, the major downside for Postgre was that some claimed
experineces of crashes and data loss, something that seems not to
happen with MySQL. ...


I've never had any problems with it. For what it's worth, I store
medical data in postgresql, and I wouldn't do that if I had any concerns
about it's reliability.


Thanks for following up. Collecting experiences... Postgre is
definitely more attractive from a programmer's point of view :)
Jul 17 '05 #23
Zurab Davitiani <ag*@mindless.com> wrote

http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/Name_case_sensitivity.html


Gosh, Zurab. Thanks. That explains why that occurred.
Jul 17 '05 #24
go********@hotpop.com (Google Mike) wrote in message news:<25**************************@posting.google. com>...

My point is that I can used to get a lot done really fast in VB, and
now that I don't want to be on Windows for my development anymore, PHP
is something where I can knock out web business app projects really
fast. I believe I can knock them out much faster than JSP, Python,
Perl, etc.


Thanks for your post googlemike - very interesting thread. I'm at a
point where I'm about to start a new project and the choice is either
VC.NOT or PHP. Professionally I use Java & JSP, but this new project
is non work related and I want to avoid Java like the plague because
of the hassles you explained earlier.

I'll seriously look at using PHP & Postgres now :)
Jul 17 '05 #25

This discussion thread is closed

Replies have been disabled for this discussion.

Similar topics

4 posts views Thread by Jhuola Hoptire | last post: by
21 posts views Thread by Travis 'Bailo' Bickel | last post: by
5 posts views Thread by cranium.2003 | last post: by
1 post views Thread by rada.lambretha | last post: by
1 post views Thread by CARIGAR | last post: by
reply views Thread by suresh191 | last post: by
1 post views Thread by Marylou17 | last post: by
By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.