RFD: comp.databases.mysql

[George Augustino]

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group comp.databases.mysql

Newsgroup line:
comp.databases.mysql MySQL relational database system discussion group.

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a
world-wide unmoderated Usenet newsgroup comp.databases.mysql.
This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time.
Procedural details are below.

RATIONALE: comp.databases.mysql

MySQL is a relational database server that is finding increasingly
wide acceptance as a backend solution for developing data-driven
Web sites and applications. MySQL is a free, open-source, professional
quality database system similar to Microsoft SQL Server and Oracle.
MySQL is a more powerful alternative to Microsoft Access databases,
but without the expensive costs of other database servers. There
is no newsgroup for MySQL, so this is the time to create one for
the rapidly growing user base.

CHARTER: comp.databases.mysql

This newsgroup comp.databases.mysql is a Big Eight Usenet discussion
group for the MySQL relational database system. Any range of topics
that pertain to MySQL may be discussed in this newsgroup.

Do not post any promotional material of any kind to this newsgroup.

Posting of binaries is not permitted, with the exception of small
digital signatures such as PGP.

END CHARTER.

PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call
For Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the
discussion warrants it. Please do not attempt to vote until this
happens.

All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.

This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and
"How to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to
these documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have
any questions about the process.

DISTRIBUTION:

news.announce.newgroups
news.groups
comp.databases
comp.lang.php
alt.php

A pointer to this RFD will be posted to the following mailing list:

Mailing list name: MySQL Advanced
Submission address: My************@googlegroups.com
URL: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/MySQL-Advanced
Proponent: George Augustino <ge**************@juno.com>

[Gary L. Burnore]

[comp.lang.php added]

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 11:57:46 -0500, George Augustino
<ge**************@juno.DROPcom> wrote:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:05:32 -0500, Gary L. Burnore
<gb******@databasix.com> wrote:

CHARTER: comp.databases.mysql

This newsgroup comp.databases.mysql is a Big Eight Usenet discussion
group for the MySQL relational database system. Any range of topics
that pertain to MySQL may be discussed in this newsgroup.

The following sentence should be changed to match the sentence that
follows it.

Posting of promotional material of any kind is not permitted.

Do not post any promotional material of any kind to this newsgroup.

Thanks. I will be noting all feedback on this proposal, even if I do
not reply to every single suggestion. I welcome any ideas to improve
the charter. I'm a programmer, not a writer. :o)

As for the readership count. You may or may not know that a very
large number of posts to comp.lang.php are mysql questions.
comp.lang.php "allows" them but I bet if you asked most posters there,
they'd say they'd like to see a place for mysql.
--
gburnore@databasix dot com
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[John Fitzsimons]

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 12:50:45 GMT, Robert McClenon
<ro*************@verizon.net> wrote:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:00:11 +0000, "George Augustino"
<ge**************@juno.com> wrote:

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group comp.databases.mysql

< snip >
Can you provide statistics on the volume of posts about MySQL in other
newsgroups or on mailing lists? The proponent of a new Big Eight
newsgroup usually provides traffic statistics to show that the group
will be used.

< snip >

A google search such as ;

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...%3Dalt.php.sql

suggests over 20,000 posts in alt.php.sql

Haven't bothered checking any others. Though I suggest that George
might want to.

Regards, John.

[John Fitzsimons]

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:00:11 +0000, "George Augustino"
<ge**************@juno.com> wrote:

alt.php.sql added.

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group comp.databases.mysql Newsgroup line:
comp.databases.mysql MySQL relational database system discussion group. This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a
world-wide unmoderated Usenet newsgroup comp.databases.mysql.
This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time.
Procedural details are below. RATIONALE: comp.databases.mysql MySQL is a relational database server that is finding increasingly
wide acceptance as a backend solution for developing data-driven
Web sites and applications. MySQL is a free, open-source, professional
quality database system similar to Microsoft SQL Server and Oracle.
MySQL is a more powerful alternative to Microsoft Access databases,
but without the expensive costs of other database servers. There
is no newsgroup for MySQL, so this is the time to create one for
the rapidly growing user base. CHARTER: comp.databases.mysql This newsgroup comp.databases.mysql is a Big Eight Usenet discussion
group for the MySQL relational database system. Any range of topics
that pertain to MySQL may be discussed in this newsgroup. Do not post any promotional material of any kind to this newsgroup. Posting of binaries is not permitted, with the exception of small
digital signatures such as PGP. END CHARTER. PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call
For Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the
discussion warrants it. Please do not attempt to vote until this
happens. All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups. This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and
"How to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to
these documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have
any questions about the process. DISTRIBUTION: news.announce.newgroups
news.groups
comp.databases
comp.lang.php
alt.php A pointer to this RFD will be posted to the following mailing list: Mailing list name: MySQL Advanced
Submission address: My************@googlegroups.com
URL: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/MySQL-Advanced
Proponent: George Augustino <ge**************@juno.com>

[John Fitzsimons]

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:00:11 +0000, "George Augustino"
<ge**************@juno.com> wrote:

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group comp.databases.mysql Newsgroup line:
comp.databases.mysql MySQL relational database system discussion group. This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a
world-wide unmoderated Usenet newsgroup comp.databases.mysql.
This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time.
Procedural details are below. RATIONALE: comp.databases.mysql
Is this a "geeks only" newsgroup ? IMO a lot of potential users/
interest could be from windows users. If so then the name should
reflect that eg.

comp.databases.mysql-win32

< snip >
Do not post any promotional material of any kind to this newsgroup.
Is that needed ? Aren't you stating the obvious ? "We don't want
spamming".

IMO one of the problems with existing MySQL forums is that there isn't
enough promotion of existing programs ! A "newbie" has little idea
what is available if he is a GUI user.

< snip >
A pointer to this RFD will be posted to the following mailing list: Mailing list name: MySQL Advanced
Submission address: My************@googlegroups.com
URL: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/MySQL-Advanced

Wondering why you didn't post to the other email list ;

Mailing-List: contact wi********@lists.mysql.com; run by ezmlm
List-ID: <win32.mysql.com>
List-Help: <mailto:wi********@lists.mysql.com>

Regards, John.

[Gary L. Burnore]

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:34:14 +1100, John Fitzsimons
<DE*************@sneakemail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:00:11 +0000, "George Augustino"
<ge**************@juno.com> wrote:

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group comp.databases.mysql

Newsgroup line:
comp.databases.mysql MySQL relational database system discussion group.

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a
world-wide unmoderated Usenet newsgroup comp.databases.mysql.
This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time.
Procedural details are below.

RATIONALE: comp.databases.mysql

Is this a "geeks only" newsgroup ? IMO a lot of potential users/
interest could be from windows users. If so then the name should
reflect that eg.

comp.databases.mysql-win32

win32 would exclude non windows platforms. Why do that?

< snip >

Do not post any promotional material of any kind to this newsgroup.
Is that needed ?

Yes.

Aren't you stating the obvious ?

No.

"We don't want spamming".

Advertisements != spamming.
IMO one of the problems with existing MySQL forums is that there isn't
enough promotion of existing programs ! A "newbie" has little idea
what is available if he is a GUI user.

If it's needed, a comp.databases.mysql.adverts could be created.
What's needed is a _discussion_ group. There's plenty of adverts on
their website now.
--
gburnore@databasix dot com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
How you look depends on where you go.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary L. Burnore | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
| ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
DataBasix | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
| ÝÛ³ 3 4 1 4 2 ݳ޳ 6 9 0 6 9 ÝÛ³
Black Helicopter Repair Svcs Division | Official Proof of Purchase
================================================== =========================
Want one? GET one! http://signup.databasix.com
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[Geoff Berrow]

I noticed that Message-ID: <co**********@blackhelicopter.databasix.com>
from Gary L. Burnore contained the following:

Do not post any promotional material of any kind to this newsgroup.

Is that needed ?

Yes.

There needs to be some distinction here. For instance, an announcement
about a new improved phpMyadmin would be of interest to readers. Some
would argue that that was promotional.

--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

[Warren Oates]

In article <0q********************************@4ax.com>,
John Fitzsimons <DE*************@sneakemail.com> wrote:

:Is this a "geeks only" newsgroup ? IMO a lot of potential users/
:interest could be from windows users. If so then the name should
:reflect that eg.
:
:comp.databases.mysql-win32

Sigh. If all the geeks use Windows, then thank Zeus I'm not one.

Geez, talk about narrow-minded. I personally feel the group should be
named comp.databases-vic20
--
Looks like more of Texas to me.
.... Arizona, where the nights are warm and the roads are straight.

[George Augustino]

personal rights and business needs. Because of
# this, foreign governments must not be allowed access to the
# escrow key."
# - George Fisher - Chairman and CEO Motorola
#
# "The NIST proposal states that the escrow agents will provide
# the key components to a government agency that 'properly
# demonstrates legal authorization to conduct electronic
# surveillance of communications which are encrypted.' The term
# 'legal authorization' leaves open the possibility that court
# issued warrants may not be required in some circumstances."
# - Robert H. Follett - Program Director IBM
#
# "If people choose to deposit their keys with the government or
# any other escrow agent, they must have some legal recourse in
# the event that those keys are improperly released. The most
# recent draft of the escrow procedures specifically states,
# however:
#
# 'These procedures do not create, and are not intended to
# create, any substantive rights for individuals intercepted
# through electronic surveillance, and noncompliance with these
# procedures shall not provide the basis for any motion to
# suppress or other objection to the introduction of electronic
# surveillance evidence lawfully acquired.'
#
# "Leaving users with no recourse will discourage use of the
# system and is a tacit acceptance of unscrupulous government
# behavior."
# - Jim Hickstein - TERADYNE
#
# "Wiretap subjects must be notified within 30 days after the
# operation is completed. If they are innocent, the government
# buys them new equipment to replace that which was compromised
# (per Lynn McNulty)... Nothing forces agents to 'forget' a key
# and stop using it."
#
# "Placing all keys in a central location will invite foreign
# intelligence services to either (a) impose similar requirements
# in their own nations, and/or (b) seek access to keys

[George Augustino]

Hi everyone. I'm looking for charter suggestions for
comp.databases.mysql. Please take a few moments to draft a short and
sweet charter, then post it here. I'd like to see as many variations
as possible before I submit the 2nd RFD to the NAN moderator. I never
intended my original draft to be the final. :)

(follow ups set to news.groups only)

George


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[Gary L. Burnore]

[comp.lang.php added]

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 11:33:29 -0600, "Adam H. Kerman"
<ah*@chinet.chinet.com> wrote:

John Fitzsimons <DE*************@sneakemail.com> wrote:

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:18:39 +0000 (UTC), ru*********@usask.ca wrote:

Note, it can be important to build up your case (e.g. your RATIONALE)
well because it can be quite difficult to obtain enough votes to
pass a proposal. The practical threshold of 120 YES votes is often
not achieved, and OFTEN that can be attributed to a proponent
underestimating the support (i.e. convincine readers).

120 sure is a lot of required votes. Hopefully George will consider
the "alt" hierarchy if it doesn't make the big 8. Fewer votes are
required there.

That's ridiculous. It belongs in comp. Let him get his ducks in a row.

Considering the number of mysql questions/threads in comp.lang.php
alone, I'm fairly certain there should be no problem at all coming up
with enough votes to make this group a reality.
A quick (and obviously unofficial) count of threads about MYSQL shows
15 between Dec 1 and today.

--
gburnore@databasix dot com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
How you look depends on where you go.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary L. Burnore | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
| ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
DataBasix | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³Ýۺݳ޳ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
| ÝÛ³ 3 4 1 4 2 ݳ޳ 6 9 0 6 9 ÝÛ³
Black Helicopter Repair Svcs Division | Official Proof of Purchase
================================================== =========================
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[George Augustino]

framework.

50. The conservatives are fools: They whine about the decay of
traditional values, yet they enthusiastically support technological
progress and economic growth. Apparently it never occurs to them that
you can't make rapid, drastic changes in the technology and the
economy of a society with out causing rapid changes in all other
aspects of the society as well, and that such rapid changes inevitably
break down traditional values.

51.The breakdown of traditional values to some extent implies the
breakdown of the bonds that hold together traditional small-scale
social groups. The disintegration of small-scale social groups is also
promoted by the fact that modern conditions often require or tempt
individuals to move to new locations, separating themselves from their
communities. Beyond that, a technological society HAS TO weaken family
ties and local communities if it is to function efficiently. In modern
society an individual's loyalty must be first to the system and only
secondarily to a small-scale community, because if the internal
loyalties of small-scale small-scale communities were stronger than
loyalty to the system, such communities would pursue their own
advantage at the expense of the system.

52. Suppose that a public official or a corporation executive appoints
his cousin, his friend or his co-religionist to a position rath