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php 5 classes: public, protected and private

Hi,

finally giving php 5 a go, and going over the new approach to classes.
Can someone clarify the public, private and protected to me?

I quote the php manual: "The visibility of a property or method can be
defined by prefixing the declaration with the keywords: public,
protected or private. Public declared items can be accessed
everywhere."

But should I read "...can be accessed everywhere within a given class."
or "...can be accessed by all other classes." ?

Job

Nov 27 '06
86 4675
Curtis wrote:
>>That's just your opinion. Where does it say that I *MUST* define and use an
interface before I can access a class method? Interfaces are optional
(especuiall y in PHP) so it is not wrong to excercise the option NOT to use
them. I can define a class method and access that method without using an
interface, and that is what I choose to do.


No one is saying that you have to use interfaces. The point is that it
is there to help in organizing and creating classes, the same goes for
visibility keywords. Just because you don't have to use these, doesn't
mean that you should not use them.

I can see an advantage in using interfaces and/or visibility keywords
in PHP, if one is creating a large library, or to help communications
between a team of developers. These features can help track down where
a problem is if something isn't working right, or just for clarifying
the particular usage for the class or its members.

BTW, I do not believe there is any controversy over what encapsulation
is; if so, I haven't heard about it.
Hi, Curtis,

Actually, there is. Tony is claiming that variables should not be
private because they are not part of the implementation.

All of the industry-recognized experts, college level OOAD courses, etc.
disagree with him. So do the people who designed Java.

And even the PHP designers disagree with him - otherwise why would they
have bothered adding private and protected to variables, for instance?

Data should be private because it hides how the data is being stored. A
SQL database is a perfect example. You can't access the data directly,
but you can do it through SQL. And even if the internal representation
of the data changes (i.e. switch from MyISAM to InnoDB engines in MySQL,
or upgrade MySQL), you can still access the data with no changes to the
program. The data is encapsulated, but it is not hidden (it's all
available).

From one of the examples Tony quoted for an example of "proper" OO
coding. The user is storing:

public $longitude = 12.3456;
public $latitude = 23.4567;

The problem with having public variables is you may need to change them
later. There are other ways of storing this data, i.e.

public $longdeg = 12;
public $longmin = 34;
public $longsec = 56;

Or
public $longitude = array('deg'=>12 , 'min'=>34, 'sec'=>56);

Or
public $longitude = 45678; // number of seconds
Or
public $longitude = "12.34.56"

and so on.

If these variables are public, you can never change them. But what
happens if you need to - i.e. for performance? Or accuracy?

For instance, if your database stores the long/lat in "12.34.56" format,
and all you need to do is display it, converting to and from
degrees/decimal is unnecessary and inefficient.

Or what if your database is stored as number of seconds, and you just
need to pull out the degrees, minutes and seconds? Again, unnecessary
overhead.

Rather, if you encapsulate the longitude and latitude, making them
private, with accessor functions, the data is not hidden - but the
implementation is.

This is where the disagreement lies. And it's why Tony is wrong.
--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attgl obal.net
=============== ===
Dec 3 '06 #51
..oO(Tony Marston)
>I have no opinion on the SPL extension as I have never used it.
No surprise.
>That
argument is irrelevant anyway. The point being debated here is whether
interfaces in PHP are necessary, and it is my opinion that they are NOT.
So just because you don't use them they are not necessary?
That perfectly sums it all up and explains a lot.

A last short statement: There are some really convenient new features in
the OOP handling in PHP 5, which _require_ interfaces. No interfaces, no
such features. If you haven't used them yet, fine. But that doesn't mean
that they are not necessary. For many other people who make use of all
the benefits PHP 5 has to offer they _are_ necessary.

I'm out.

EOT
Micha
Dec 3 '06 #52
..oO(Tony Marston)
>This is a PHP newsgroup, so I am explaining how interfaces work within PHP.
OK, please do that, no empty promises. Please explain, what interfaces
in PHP are and what you can do with them. Or can't do. I'm listening!

Micha
Dec 3 '06 #53
Hi, Curtis,

Hello :)

<snip>
If these variables are public, you can never change them. But what
happens if you need to - i.e. for performance? Or accuracy?
<snip>
Rather, if you encapsulate the longitude and latitude, making them
private, with accessor functions, the data is not hidden - but the
implementation is.
I see, I see. All of a sudden, it's like a light bulb turned on in my
head. I have have experience using OOP in PHP, Perl, JavaScript, and
very little in Python and C++, but I am nowhere near an expert,
although I have learned a lot from just trying out code and reading
documentation. There is a lot to OOP I have yet to learn, so I'll try
getting the materials by the experts mentioned. ;)

Just to make sure I interpreted your post correctly:

The benefit of encapsulation is doing things like making certain class
members private, and then utilizing setters/getters so that you can be
much more flexible in changing your class in the future.

Dec 4 '06 #54

"Curtis" <dy****@gmail.c omwrote in message
news:11******** ************@79 g2000cws.google groups.com...
>Hi, Curtis,

Hello :)

<snip>
>If these variables are public, you can never change them. But what
happens if you need to - i.e. for performance? Or accuracy?
<snip>
>Rather, if you encapsulate the longitude and latitude, making them
private, with accessor functions, the data is not hidden - but the
implementati on is.

I see, I see. All of a sudden, it's like a light bulb turned on in my
head. I have have experience using OOP in PHP, Perl, JavaScript, and
very little in Python and C++, but I am nowhere near an expert,
although I have learned a lot from just trying out code and reading
documentation. There is a lot to OOP I have yet to learn, so I'll try
getting the materials by the experts mentioned. ;)

Just to make sure I interpreted your post correctly:

The benefit of encapsulation is doing things like making certain class
members private, and then utilizing setters/getters so that you can be
much more flexible in changing your class in the future.
No, encapsulation is not about making everything private, it is about
putting data and the operations which act upon that data into a single
class. The ability to make certain operations or pieces of data private or
protected is OPTIONAL, not MANDATORY.

I am not saying that you MUST NOT make things private/protected, I am simply
arguing against the statement that you MUST use the private/protected
option. The point is that his is entirely OPTIONAL and is a matter of
personal preference.

As for saying that you MUST make all data private and access it through
getters and setters, you obviously haven't read
http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/j...5-toolbox.html

--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org
Dec 4 '06 #55

"Michael Fesser" <ne*****@gmx.de wrote in message
news:ki******** *************** *********@4ax.c om...
.oO(Tony Marston)
>>I have no opinion on the SPL extension as I have never used it.

No surprise.
>>That
argument is irrelevant anyway. The point being debated here is whether
interfaces in PHP are necessary, and it is my opinion that they are NOT.

So just because you don't use them they are not necessary?
That perfectly sums it all up and explains a lot.

A last short statement: There are some really convenient new features in
the OOP handling in PHP 5, which _require_ interfaces. No interfaces, no
such features. If you haven't used them yet, fine. But that doesn't mean
that they are not necessary. For many other people who make use of all
the benefits PHP 5 has to offer they _are_ necessary.
So what you are saying is that interfaces are only necessary if you want to
make use of certain features. This supports my argument that interfaces are
OPTIONAL if you don't want to use those specialised features.

--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org
Dec 4 '06 #56

"Michael Fesser" <ne*****@gmx.de wrote in message
news:41******** *************** *********@4ax.c om...
.oO(Tony Marston)
>>This is a PHP newsgroup, so I am explaining how interfaces work within
PHP.

OK, please do that, no empty promises. Please explain, what interfaces
in PHP are and what you can do with them. Or can't do. I'm listening!

Micha
It is a simple argument. In PHP interfaces are optional. I *do not* have to
define an interface before I can access a method in an object. The fact that
interfaces may have their uses in specialised circumstances does not get
away from the fact that under normal use they are optional.

--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org
Dec 4 '06 #57
Why is it so difficult for you to accept that YOUR opinion is not the ONLY
opinion that is allowed to exist? Just because you can quote some people who
agree with you does not make you right. I have quoted from other sources who
agree with me, yet you dismiss all these different opinions as being
"irrelevant ".

Your use of personal insults also shows what a juvenile mind you have.

--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org

"Jerry Stuckle" <js*******@attg lobal.netwrote in message
news:v8******** *************** *******@comcast .com...
Tony Marston wrote:
>"Jerry Stuckle" <js*******@attg lobal.netwrote in message
news:4q******* *************** ********@comcas t.com...
>>>Tony Marston wrote:

<snip>
>>>>I suggest you learn to read. The article by Craig Larman clearly states
"In it, Parnas introduces information hiding. Many people have
misinterpre tted this term as meaning data encapsulation, and some books
erroneous ly define the concepts as synonyms"
Do you see? "Encapsulat ion" is not supposed to mean "data
encapsulati on".
Yes, I suggest you learn to read, Tony. Start with the real experts.

You're just a stupid troll who looks around for someone to support his
position. Read the authors I recommended.

And no, I don't need to read any more of your "experts". I've read
enough to see that you really don't understand what they're talking
about.

>This is something on which EVERY expert agrees. But you fail to
>understand .
Not EVERY export. Some agree, some don't..
OK, every RECOGNIZED expert. That does not include the "experts" trolls
like you recognize. Nor anyone who posts an essay or blog on the web.


Oh I see. Someone is not an expert unless you personally give them your
seal of approval. That is NOT how it works.

That's hilarious. You think you're an expert because you one time worked
on one failed OO project. Try working on a few dozen successful ones.
Then maybe you'll learn someone.

And these are experts recognized by the INDUSTRY. People who have been
doing OOAD for years. University Professors. Industry giants. And so
on.

But you think anyone who doesn't agree with you doesn't know anything. You
are beyond stupid, Tony. And people laugh at you.
>>
>>>>>And the same thing with Craig Larman's article. He agrees that
>encapsulat ion is good because it hides the design details. No one ever
>claimed it hid information.
>
>Wrong on both counts, Tony the Troll. Learn to read.


I suggest YOU learn to read. Encapsulation is NOT the same as data
hiding.

And I suggest you learn to read. I never said encapsulation had anything
do to with data hiding. But you're too stoopid to understand that,
either.
>>
>>>>"Encapsulat ion" is not supposed to mean "data encapsulation". It is
supposed to hide the implemetation (code), not the information (data).
Encapsulatio n includes bot DATA AND CODE. How information is stored is
part of the implementation, also. But that's what you can't get through
your thick skull.


Encapsulatio n means "implementa tion hiding" not "informatio n hiding". I
do not need private/protected variables to implement encapsulation.

Exactly. And how data is stored is part of the implementation. But
again, you're too stoopid to understand that part.
>>
>>>Maybe if you stood up and took a load off of your brain you could think
more clearly. I'd suggest you take a shit but I'm afraid you'd loose
what ever brains you might have.
>>>This is in perfect agreement with Booch, Rumbaugh, Iverson and
>>>others . And a direct CONTRADICTION to troll Tony Marston.


And other experts, such as Martin Fowler.

And no, your beloved Martin Fowler is not a widely recognized expert. Not
like Booch, Rumbaugh and Iverson, for three. But even so, Martin Fowler
agrees with the other three experts. But you're too stoopid to understand
that, either.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>It 's not worth getting into the argument. He's just a troll with
>>>>>>>delu sions of competency.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If everyone who disagrees with you is incompetent then the world
>>>>>>is full of idiots. Your opinion is not the only opinion, and there
>>>>>>are plenty of "experts" who have opposing views.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>No, I disagree with a lot of competent people. It's YOU who are an
>>>>>incomp etent troll. And you continue to prove it.
I see. I agree with some of the people that you disagree with, yet that
makes me a troll.
No, you're a troll because you come into a tread and start arguing your
case.


That is what newsgroups are for, to expose different points of view.

Yea, but the problem is you can't keep people like Tony Marston with shit
for brains out, either. But that's ok, there are a lot of people getting
a big laugh at you.

Imaging - calling yourself an "expert" when you've only worked on one
project - which failed. ROFLMAO!
>>
>>You refuse to read industry-recognized experts, but quote blogs by
people who agree with you.


I read from a different set of experts, as do many others.

And your "experts" are not recognized by the industry. They're just like
you - poor wanna-be's with a web site and delusions of competence. People
who are so desperate for attention they'll post any bullshit they can
find, just to get attention.
>>
>>>And even when you post a page of someone who agrees with me and I point
it out, you refute it and change the subject - finding another unknown
"expert" to support your claim.


So you agree that there are others out there, expert or not, who share MY
opinion and which contradicts YOUR opinion.

Sure, there are people who don't understand OO, encapsulation and the
rest. In fact, I'll bet bet Hillary Clinton would agree with you. And
she's even famous!
>>
>>>Also, I challenge you to find even ONE college level OO course in the
U.S. which agrees with you. I bet you can't. So I guess all those
professors are wrong, also.


If they are teaching that there is only one way to interpret what OO
means, and only one way to implement that interpretation, then they ARE
wrong. Just like those religious fanatics who preach that theirs is the
ONE and ONLY "true" faith.

So now you're saying even all the colleges and universities in this
country are wrong, also, because they don't agree with Tony Marston?

ROFLMAO!
>>
>>>You are a troll because you have absolutely no idea of which you talk.


I have an open mind. I am prepared to listen to all arguments before I
decide which path to follow. And I choose NOT to follow your particular
path.

That is the best line you've come up with yet, Tony!

No, you don't have an open mind. Your mind is fixated on how YOU think
things should be, and the rest of the world should conform to YOUR ideas.
And anyone who disagrees with you is wrong - including all colleges,
universities, industry-recognized experts...

That is not an open mind, Tony. That's a sign of megalomania. And you're
a troll, on top of it.
>>
>>>You have no real experience outside of your little bubble, yet claim you
are an expert.


I have never claimed to be an expert, unlike YOU. All I have done is
pointed out that other experts have opinions which differ from yours.

You have posted no "experts" who's opinions differ from mine. All you've
posted are blogs and other website entries by people no one else knows.
>< snip>
>>>And you won't even read the industry experts. Your mantra is:
"I've made up my mind. Don't confuse me with the facts".


That's funny. I thought that was YOUR mantra.

Nope, the facts I have are from recognized experts. You have no real
experience in OO, you have not read industry experts, you haven't even
taken a college course on OOAD. And yet you think everyone else is wrong.
><snip>
>>>The difference is my "bullshit" is supported by industry-recognized
techniques . Yours is only supported by unknown people who are trying to
get their names out.


So Martin Fowler is not a recognised expert?

Not as widely recognized as Booch, Rumbaugh and Iverson, amongst others.
And even so, if you really read what he says, he does agree with the three
above.
>< snip>
>>>>>Try working on an OO project with 100 programmers. Learn how to do
>proper OO.


That's the problem. Different people have a totally different idea as to
what "proper OO" actually is. You are the arrogant one who keeps
insisting that YOUR opinion is the ONLY opinion worth having.

Yes, you are arrogant, Tony. And I can see why they fired your ass from
the project.

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

Dec 4 '06 #58

"Jerry Stuckle" <js*******@attg lobal.netwrote in message
news:v8******** *************** *******@comcast .com...
Tony Marston wrote:
>"Jerry Stuckle" <js*******@attg lobal.netwrote in message
news:4q******* *************** ********@comcas t.com...
>>>Tony Marston wrote:


<snip>
>>>>This is a PHP newsgroup, so I am explaining how interfaces work within
PHP. It is a simple fact that interfaces ARE NOT NECESSARY in PHP. The
fact that interfaces are treated differently in other languages is
totally irrelevant. The fact that YOU think that interfaces in PHP
should behave exactly the same as in other languages is also irrelevant.
The subject of interfaces came up in the OO context, not a PHP interface.

However, you're too stupid to understand there's a difference between the
two. So you keep trying to change the subject then justifying your
change - just like any troll.


This is a PHP newsgroup. All my arguments concern PHP. I do not care that
other languages have different implementations because that is totally
irrelevant. The simple fact is that in PHP it is not necessary to use
interfaces.

This discussion has to do with interfaces in the OO context. They are not
the same as PHP interfaces.

But you're too stoopid to understand the difference, so like a troll you
try to change the subject.

Go away, troll.
I am not changing the subject, you are. This is a PHP newsgroup, and my
argument is simply that interfaces are not necessary in PHP. You cannot
disprove this argument, so you attempt to change it to a different argument.

--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org
Dec 4 '06 #59

"Jerry Stuckle" <js*******@attg lobal.netwrote in message
news:df******** *************** *******@comcast .com...
Curtis wrote:
>>>That's just your opinion. Where does it say that I *MUST* define and use
an
interface before I can access a class method? Interfaces are optional
(especuial ly in PHP) so it is not wrong to excercise the option NOT to
use
them. I can define a class method and access that method without using an
interface, and that is what I choose to do.


No one is saying that you have to use interfaces. The point is that it
is there to help in organizing and creating classes, the same goes for
visibility keywords. Just because you don't have to use these, doesn't
mean that you should not use them.

I can see an advantage in using interfaces and/or visibility keywords
in PHP, if one is creating a large library, or to help communications
between a team of developers. These features can help track down where
a problem is if something isn't working right, or just for clarifying
the particular usage for the class or its members.

BTW, I do not believe there is any controversy over what encapsulation
is; if so, I haven't heard about it.

Hi, Curtis,

Actually, there is. Tony is claiming that variables should not be private
because they are not part of the implementation.
Wrong again. I did not say that they SHOULD NOT be private, I said that they
DO NOT HAVE TO be private. It is optonal, not mandatory.
All of the industry-recognized experts, college level OOAD courses, etc.
disagree with him. So do the people who designed Java.

And even the PHP designers disagree with him - otherwise why would they
have bothered adding private and protected to variables, for instance?
They added those features so that programmers have the option of using them.
Their usage is OPTIONAL, not MANDATORY.
Data should be private because it hides how the data is being stored. A
SQL database is a perfect example. You can't access the data directly,
but you can do it through SQL. And even if the internal representation of
the data changes (i.e. switch from MyISAM to InnoDB engines in MySQL, or
upgrade MySQL), you can still access the data with no changes to the
program. The data is encapsulated, but it is not hidden (it's all
available).
Now it is you who is being stupid. The way in whch data is stored in the
database has nothing to do with making object variables public, protected or
private. In a well-written application all database access should be
performed in a separate data access object (DAO), thus making it possible to
switch from one database to another (e.g. fom MySQL to PostgreSQL) without
having any effect on the business object.

My argument is that it is not NECESSARY to make every class variable private
or protected. It is an OPTION, but one which does not provide any
additional functionality or increased performance. All it does is place
restrictions on the programmer.

--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org
Dec 4 '06 #60

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Hello I'm a network technician in training and I need your help. I am currently learning how to create and manage the different types of VPNs and I have a question about LAN-to-LAN VPNs. The last exercise I practiced was to create a LAN-to-LAN VPN between two Pfsense firewalls, by using IPSEC protocols. I succeeded, with both firewalls in the same network. But I'm wondering if it's possible to do the same thing, with 2 Pfsense firewalls...
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4482
by: 6302768590 | last post by:
Hai team i want code for transfer the data from one system to another through IP address by using C# our system has to for every 5mins then we have to update the data what the data is updated we have to send another system

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