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Who is using PHP today?

I'm working to convince my office to make the switch to PHP from ASP.
I've convinced them that some change needs to be made, but I think
there is some hesitation about PHP being too non-corporate. Can anyone
give examples of big companies that are using PHP for real business? I
remember hearing that Yahoo! used it, but that was several years ago.
Anything you can send would be great.

May 4 '06
34 3579
On Thu, 04 May 2006 13:25:32 -0700, Chung Leong wrote:
I think you'll have a hard time finding any big business using PHP for
their mission critical systems. The best thing about using something from
Microsoft is that if things go wrong, you can always pin the blame on
Microsoft. With open source you're stuck with it. As much as I like PHP I
would never recommend it for projects where the stakes are high.


Then I think you have a deep seated issue in that you need someone to
blame when things go wrong.

When the stakes are "high" (which is a relative term from business to
business) then the consultant should recommend the best solution.

For web applications 9 out of 10 times (if not more) PHP is the best
solution and I have no issue recommending it even though there's no one to
pin the blame on if it goes wrong.

Think of it this way, ask the customer "which would you prefer: a
platform with someone to blame when it all goes wrong or a platform that
actually works?"

Cheers,
Andy

--
Andy Jeffries MBCS CITP ZCE | gPHPEdit Lead Developer
http://www.gphpedit.org | PHP editor for Gnome 2
http://www.andyjeffries.co.uk | Personal site and photos

May 4 '06 #11
Jon

"Andy Jeffries" <ne**@andyjeffr ies.co.uk> wrote in message
news:pa******** *************** ****@andyjeffri es.co.uk...
On Thu, 04 May 2006 13:25:32 -0700, Chung Leong wrote:
I think you'll have a hard time finding any big business using PHP for
their mission critical systems. The best thing about using something from
Microsoft is that if things go wrong, you can always pin the blame on
Microsoft. With open source you're stuck with it. As much as I like PHP I
would never recommend it for projects where the stakes are high.


Then I think you have a deep seated issue in that you need someone to
blame when things go wrong.

When the stakes are "high" (which is a relative term from business to
business) then the consultant should recommend the best solution.

For web applications 9 out of 10 times (if not more) PHP is the best
solution and I have no issue recommending it even though there's no one to
pin the blame on if it goes wrong.

Think of it this way, ask the customer "which would you prefer: a
platform with someone to blame when it all goes wrong or a platform that
actually works?"

Cheers,
Andy

--
Andy Jeffries MBCS CITP ZCE | gPHPEdit Lead Developer
http://www.gphpedit.org | PHP editor for Gnome 2
http://www.andyjeffries.co.uk | Personal site and photos


Nah, there's no need to blame people - he's just speaking the truth. We use
PHP for a ton of our web development, but for internal company applications,
it's mostly ASP.NET now and that was switched from classic ASP. There's more
backing from a company with MS than PHP despite the much better community
PHP has. In the end, it's a hard sell to companies when talking about using
PHP for large company applications accessed thousands of times a day and
dealing with millions of records from a DB - Most companies will spend the
money for the MS platform.

That being said, I'm a HUGE PHP fan and feel it's more flexible than ASP,
but reality is reality.
May 4 '06 #12
an@other.net wrote:
In article <tY************ *************** ***@onvoy.com>, ju****@koivi.co m
says...
Yahoo! has a handful of big-name PHP developers on staff - including
Rasmus Lerdorf and Andrei Zmievski

http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news...le.php/3587606
http://www.php.net/~derick/meeting-notes.html


PHP is a high level scripting language no different from any other. You
could set up MS basic to do the same job.

Personally I'd say its backward method of defining global variable scope
on its own causes enough extra typing to make me want to look elsewhere.

PHP provides no special fuctions no special security no special features
that dont exist in any other scripting language ever invented.

It's an ok scripting language and thats about it.

If you are writing serious "applicatio ns" it shouldn't even be
considered.


That's fine... but it had absolutely nothing to do with my post.

--
Justin Koivisto, ZCE - ju****@koivi.co m
http://koivi.com
May 4 '06 #13
NC
Nate Baxley wrote:

I'm working to convince my office to make the switch
to PHP from ASP.
In order to convince anyone to choose one technology over next, you
need a good set of reasons. You need to compare performance, cost, and
time to market (not necessarily in that order). Since you provided no
details as to what you currently using ASP for, no case can be made for
either switching or not switching.
I've convinced them that some change needs to be made,
but I think there is some hesitation about PHP being too
non-corporate.
What exactly do you mean by "non-corporate"? Inexpensive and easy to
use? That's an advantage. No corporate entity that controls the
product? It's Zend...
Can anyone give examples of big companies that are using
PHP for real business?
How do you define "real business"? Is Friendster with 27+ million
active users "real business" or not?
I remember hearing that Yahoo! used it, but that was several
years ago.


They still do. Michael Radwin keeps giving talks about it at various
conferences:

http://public.yahoo.com/~radwin/talks/

Most recent of them, actually, was delivered about a week ago at MySQL
User Conference...

Cheers,
NC

May 4 '06 #14
Andy Jeffries wrote:
Then I think you have a deep seated issue in that you need someone to
blame when things go wrong.
Try telling that to your boss after your recommendation has costed the
company half a mil :-)
When the stakes are "high" (which is a relative term from business to
business) then the consultant should recommend the best solution.
And the best solution in that case is one that has the lowest risk.
Using PHP in a system that's mission critical for your business is a
high risk proposition--both from a objective and selfish,
save-my-own-ass perspective. For one thing, there are no patches for
PHP. To plug a hole or fix a bug you have to do a point upgrade.
Quality control is substandard, with debilitating regressions creeping
into released versions. And when these bugs are discovered, barely any
effort is made to inform the user base of their existence.
For web applications 9 out of 10 times (if not more) PHP is the best
solution and I have no issue recommending it even though there's no one to
pin the blame on if it goes wrong.
I don't disagree, but the tenth is the one that the OP is looking for.
Think of it this way, ask the customer "which would you prefer: a
platform with someone to blame when it all goes wrong or a platform that
actually works?"


As a government employee, I say the former is preferable. LOL

But seriously, in all business decisions one has to weight the
potential rewards against the risks involved. To say that a switch to
PHP is good because so-and-so big-shot company is using it is as silly
as to say the switch shouldn't be made because so-and-so isn't using it.

May 4 '06 #15
Chung Leong wrote:
Andy Jeffries wrote:
Then I think you have a deep seated issue in that you need someone to
blame when things go wrong.

Try telling that to your boss after your recommendation has costed the
company half a mil :-)

When the stakes are "high" (which is a relative term from business to
business) then the consultant should recommend the best solution.

And the best solution in that case is one that has the lowest risk.
Using PHP in a system that's mission critical for your business is a
high risk proposition--both from a objective and selfish,
save-my-own-ass perspective. For one thing, there are no patches for
PHP. To plug a hole or fix a bug you have to do a point upgrade.
Quality control is substandard, with debilitating regressions creeping
into released versions. And when these bugs are discovered, barely any
effort is made to inform the user base of their existence.


And I would trust PHP a lot farther than ASP.Net.

And Microsoft has never regressed anything? ROFLMAO! I can't count the number
of rewrites I've been involved in before switching AWAY from MS products.

As for Quality Control - yes, I wish MS would get some. Their software is crap.
The only thing they have going for them is they have snowed those who don't
know a damn thing about IT but have high positions in big companies.
For web applications 9 out of 10 times (if not more) PHP is the best
solution and I have no issue recommending it even though there's no one to
pin the blame on if it goes wrong.

I don't disagree, but the tenth is the one that the OP is looking for.


I don't think it is the tenth in this case. I would have absolutely no problem
with a PHP solution.
Think of it this way, ask the customer "which would you prefer: a
platform with someone to blame when it all goes wrong or a platform that
actually works?"

As a government employee, I say the former is preferable. LOL


Ah, that explains things. Governments have never been noted for making
intelligent decisions.
But seriously, in all business decisions one has to weight the
potential rewards against the risks involved. To say that a switch to
PHP is good because so-and-so big-shot company is using it is as silly
as to say the switch shouldn't be made because so-and-so isn't using it.


Yep. And there are way too many risks with MS products!

Sorry, Chung, you're in the wrong newsgroup if you want to bash PHP and extol
the virtues of MS products.

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attgl obal.net
=============== ===
May 5 '06 #16

an@other.net wrote:
If you are writing serious "applicatio ns" it [php] shouldn't even be considered.


As I mentioned previously, I have 6 years worth of proof that your
statement is nonsense.

Anyway, with regards to C# being cumbersome... it's not really, it just
works very differently to PHP and 'traditional' ASP. It does take some
getting used to, but, at least in my opinion, it is a very nice
language to work with. Having said that, if you are simply writing
quick little scripts, then PHP is going to be must faster in terms of
development and benchmarking.
P.S. What the point in asking if any big companies are using the
language for real business, then admiting you are just a small shop
with one coder? heh.

Anyway.... I wish you good luck with whatever you choose.

May 5 '06 #17

Chung Leong wrote:
I think you'll have a hard time finding any big business using PHP for
their mission critical systems.
I've worked at three so far. There no reason not to use PHP for mission
critical stuff. Poor code is down to poor coders, which unfortunately
the PHP world seems to have a lot of.
Hmm, ok, that is a harsh statement, but the nature of the language
makes it attractive to the hobbiest, which isn't a bad thing but when
they start releasing code, well you only need to look at packetstorm or
similar on any given day to see what the problem is.

The best thing about using something
from Microsoft is that if things go wrong, you can always pin the blame
on Microsoft. With open source you're stuck with it. As much as I like
PHP I would never recommend it for projects where the stakes are high.


That's nonsense. Microsoft don't pay compensation for downtime, and if
they did they certainly wouldn't pay it for downtime caused by the code
written by the user.

In fact, in real life what happens is... Microsoft take a month or more
to find, fix and release a patch for the problem you've found.

The PHP devs will likely have a fix out within a few hours, or days at
most.

Not the mention that, if your code goes down, effecting your clients,
and sure they couldn't care less who's fault it is, they just want it
fixed. Being able to say, it wasn't us it was Microsofts fault really
doesn't cut it with shareholders.
I've spoken to people at MS about technical issues for beta projects
and such and they have always been very helpful, but they provide no
more or less help than the PHP community does.

May 5 '06 #18
On Thu, 04 May 2006 16:29:17 -0700, Chung Leong wrote:
When the stakes are "high" (which is a relative term from business to
business) then the consultant should recommend the best solution.


And the best solution in that case is one that has the lowest risk. Using
PHP in a system that's mission critical for your business is a high risk
proposition--both from a objective and selfish, save-my-own-ass
perspective. For one thing, there are no patches for PHP. To plug a hole
or fix a bug you have to do a point upgrade.


Or change the source yourself using a diff from the source code. If
you're a big development company then it's not much effort to do that on
one server then roll it out to the others through your choice of
distribution/packaging method.

The bonus is *YOU CAN DO THAT*, with MS you're stuck in to waiting for
their release cycle after they've tested that it works on Chinese Windows
with a Russian language editor running Office 97 (even though the patch to
the ASP component isn't at all related, they have to test it to ensure the
entire experience isn't broken).

Cheers,
Andy

--
Andy Jeffries MBCS CITP ZCE | gPHPEdit Lead Developer
http://www.gphpedit.org | PHP editor for Gnome 2
http://www.andyjeffries.co.uk | Personal site and photos

May 5 '06 #19
an
In article <pa************ *************** *@andyjeffries. co.uk>,
ne**@andyjeffri es.co.uk says...

On Thu, 04 May 2006 18:03:23 +0000, an wrote:
PHP is a high level scripting language no different from any other. You
could set up MS basic to do the same job.


Another opinion from a troll too cowardly to put his real name/email
address.


Are you saying he's wrong or are you going to cry like a baby and assume
that refutes everything anyone ever says?
May 5 '06 #20

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