Dear friends of database(s),
After 13 years of Ingres, I am now using Oracle.
But is Oracle technically better than Ingres.
I would be much obliged if anyone could shed some light on the above
question.
It would also be helpful if you could 'please' keep your comments on a
technical level.
Regards
Michael Newport 10 7112 mi************@yahoo.com (michael newport) wrote in message news:<63*************************@posting.google.c om>... Dear friends of database(s),
After 13 years of Ingres, I am now using Oracle.
But is Oracle technically better than Ingres.
I would be much obliged if anyone could shed some light on the above question.
It would also be helpful if you could 'please' keep your comments on a technical level.
Regards Michael Newport
It's been a long time since I did anything with INGRES so I won't say
it's better or worse, because I don't know what technology it uses
now.
I will say that Oracle's Multiversioning makes systems run a lot
smoother than DBMS that uses various forms of locks to conrol access.
It can be more resource hungry, but the ease of use and performance
more than compensates, IMHO.
take a look at the Oracle Concepts manual. You'll learn a lot about
how the system operates and why.
HTH,
ed
"michael newport" <mi************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:63*************************@posting.google.co m... Dear friends of database(s),
After 13 years of Ingres, I am now using Oracle.
But is Oracle technically better than Ingres.
I would be much obliged if anyone could shed some light on the above question.
It would also be helpful if you could 'please' keep your comments on a technical level.
Anything that implements SQL sucks. Your question therefore is about the
degree of suckiness exhibited by each product. That's a tough one.
I like Ingres' ease of management. I like the fact that Ingres DDL is
"transactional". I like the ease with which I can create (and destroy) a
new Ingres database. I like the ease with which I can restore and recover
an Ingres database. I also like the look of a lot of what is coming in r3.
On the other hand I like the way Oracle implements the READ COMMITTED
isolation level.
As I implied, I'd rather not have to use either of them. But Ingres is the
least bad IMO.
Roy Hann (rhann at rationalcommerce dot com)
Rational Commerce Ltd. www.rationalcommerce.com
"Ingres development, tuning, and training experts" mi************@yahoo.com (michael newport) wrote in message news:<63*************************@posting.google.c om>... Dear friends of database(s),
After 13 years of Ingres, I am now using Oracle.
But is Oracle technically better than Ingres.
I would be much obliged if anyone could shed some light on the above question.
It would also be helpful if you could 'please' keep your comments on a technical level.
Regards Michael Newport
Michael, I have never worked directly with Ingres, but we had the
database here once and the two developers who worked with it liked
Oracle much better. Running the same applications against Oracle
provided more up time and required less database related maintenance.
Oracle has advanced greatly since then. There are two different
independent consulting reports that state that Oracle 10g is easier to
manage than SQL Server.
I have wroked with Oracle, SQL Server, DB2 UDB, and mySQL. I like
Oracle better than the others. I second, Ed's suggestion to look or
better yet read the Concepts manual. It is the place to start with
Oracle.
HTH -- Mark D Powell -- Ma*********@eds.com (Mark D Powell) wrote in message news:<26**************************@posting.google. com>... mi************@yahoo.com (michael newport) wrote in message news:<63*************************@posting.google.c om>... Dear friends of database(s),
After 13 years of Ingres, I am now using Oracle.
But is Oracle technically better than Ingres.
I would be much obliged if anyone could shed some light on the above question.
It would also be helpful if you could 'please' keep your comments on a technical level.
Regards Michael Newport
Michael, I have never worked directly with Ingres, but we had the database here once and the two developers who worked with it liked Oracle much better. Running the same applications against Oracle provided more up time and required less database related maintenance.
Oracle has advanced greatly since then. There are two different independent consulting reports that state that Oracle 10g is easier to manage than SQL Server.
I have wroked with Oracle, SQL Server, DB2 UDB, and mySQL. I like Oracle better than the others. I second, Ed's suggestion to look or better yet read the Concepts manual. It is the place to start with Oracle.
HTH -- Mark D Powell --
The July 19, 2004 issue of InformationWeek p 46 mentions that after a
decade of neglect by CA who had put their attention on Jasmine that CA
is showing renewed interest in marketing Ingres. The title of the
short article is CA goes open source with Ingres database. The
implication is that CA has a lot of work to do to catch up to other
relational database products.
But how good a database is for you depends a lot on the features you
need. Oracle contains a lot of features that many sites do not use,
but if you need analytical functions then Oracle has them. If you
have very large tables then Oracle has partitoned tables and indexes.
With a warehouse operation you might need/benefit from bitmap indexes.
If you really want to compare databases you have to make a list of
features you need/want and then list what each database offers.
HTH -- Mark D Powell --
look at it this way,
using Oracle 9i, I have now written a batch procedure in PL/SQL that
collects lots of data from various tables, and puts it all into a new
table. I also did the same using Ingres 6.4 some time back using only
SQL, running from a cron job.
In Oracle, when the user runs a report (the next day) from the table,
it is slower than it should be as the 'order by' is done at run time.
It seems that I cannot pre-order the data (though I have tried).
In Ingres I used to do this easily with :-
modify <table> to btree unique on <field1>, <field2>, <field3>
Regards
Michael Newport mi************@yahoo.com (michael newport) wrote in message news:<63************************@posting.google.co m>... look at it this way,
using Oracle 9i, I have now written a batch procedure in PL/SQL that collects lots of data from various tables, and puts it all into a new table. I also did the same using Ingres 6.4 some time back using only SQL, running from a cron job.
In Oracle, when the user runs a report (the next day) from the table, it is slower than it should be as the 'order by' is done at run time. It seems that I cannot pre-order the data (though I have tried).
In Ingres I used to do this easily with :- modify <table> to btree unique on <field1>, <field2>, <field3>
Regards Michael Newport
If your process uses only ANSI standard SQL then if you can build the
report table in Ingress then you should also be able to do it with any
other RDBMS that supports the same level of the ANSI standard. If the
SQL is not ANSI standard but involves extentions then it is subject to
question if the process is pure SQL.
The problem with using the rewriting of an existing peice of code as a
means of measuring a DB is that that code was probably written to work
based on the features of the existing DB. The new target DB may well
be based on different design principles and the code should be
structured differently on the new DB for optimal performance. The
problem is if you are good with the old system you are likely not (yet
anyway) good with the new one. Most people like what they know, and
are not going to like a DB with which they are unfamiliar and
inexperienced.
By the definition of an RDBMS a table is an unordered heap (see Codd).
Applying the sort at run time allows the data to be extracted in
whatever order is needed at the time. But if the report is
constructed such that it logically should be extracted in a specific
order then based on your example you would use an Indexed Organized
Table, IOT, which Oracle provides as an option.
IMHO -- Mark D Powell --
Hi,
Does Ingres R3 will suport ERP's like SAP Siebel et al.
Regards,
Goutam Sengupta Ma*********@eds.com (Mark D Powell) wrote in message news:<26**************************@posting.google. com>... mi************@yahoo.com (michael newport) wrote in message news:<63************************@posting.google.co m>... look at it this way,
using Oracle 9i, I have now written a batch procedure in PL/SQL that collects lots of data from various tables, and puts it all into a new table. I also did the same using Ingres 6.4 some time back using only SQL, running from a cron job.
In Oracle, when the user runs a report (the next day) from the table, it is slower than it should be as the 'order by' is done at run time. It seems that I cannot pre-order the data (though I have tried).
In Ingres I used to do this easily with :- modify <table> to btree unique on <field1>, <field2>, <field3>
Regards Michael Newport
If your process uses only ANSI standard SQL then if you can build the report table in Ingress then you should also be able to do it with any other RDBMS that supports the same level of the ANSI standard. If the SQL is not ANSI standard but involves extentions then it is subject to question if the process is pure SQL.
The problem with using the rewriting of an existing peice of code as a means of measuring a DB is that that code was probably written to work based on the features of the existing DB. The new target DB may well be based on different design principles and the code should be structured differently on the new DB for optimal performance. The problem is if you are good with the old system you are likely not (yet anyway) good with the new one. Most people like what they know, and are not going to like a DB with which they are unfamiliar and inexperienced.
By the definition of an RDBMS a table is an unordered heap (see Codd). Applying the sort at run time allows the data to be extracted in whatever order is needed at the time. But if the report is constructed such that it logically should be extracted in a specific order then based on your example you would use an Indexed Organized Table, IOT, which Oracle provides as an option.
IMHO -- Mark D Powell -- mi************@yahoo.com (michael newport) wrote in message news:<63************************@posting.google.co m>...
<snip> In Oracle, when the user runs a report (the next day) from the table, it is slower than it should be as the 'order by' is done at run time. It seems that I cannot pre-order the data (though I have tried).
In Ingres I used to do this easily with :- modify <table> to btree unique on <field1>, <field2>, <field3>
In other words, your routine had previously relied on an
implementation quirk/feature/nicety of the Ingres btree structure -
and a quirk/feature/nicety that wasn't guaranteed to continue
indefinitely. And you'd best hope your DBA didn't decide hash or isam
would be a better organisation for your table at some point ;)
The bottom line is simple - if you want your result set in a
particular order, guaranteed, whichever product you're using - it's
time for "order by".
- Tony
(PS. I might be wrong, but aren't there circumstances in Ingres 2.6
where this btree "feature" no longer holds true ? ISTR being advised
not to rely on it any more...)
....so anyway I have not had time to implement the IOT suggestion
(people keep giving me other work !), but its nice to know that I can
do the same thing in Oracle that I used to do in Ingres. So thanks for
the help.
But pre-ordering your data is a handy feature that saves time (during
the day) and hassle.
But getting back to my original question, "is Oracle technically
better than Ingres". I still can not say that it is. I was waiting for
a smoking gun from some Oracle people as to why Oracle is better.
Furthermore I kept having an Oracle "snapshot too old" problem which
meant that after weeks of studiously putting my SQL query together, I
am now having to split it up again. Something to do with the query
taking too long.
regards
Mike mi************@yahoo.com (michael newport) wrote in message news:<63*************************@posting.google.c om>... ...so anyway I have not had time to implement the IOT suggestion (people keep giving me other work !), but its nice to know that I can do the same thing in Oracle that I used to do in Ingres. So thanks for the help.
But pre-ordering your data is a handy feature that saves time (during the day) and hassle.
But getting back to my original question, "is Oracle technically better than Ingres". I still can not say that it is. I was waiting for a smoking gun from some Oracle people as to why Oracle is better.
Furthermore I kept having an Oracle "snapshot too old" problem which meant that after weeks of studiously putting my SQL query together, I am now having to split it up again. Something to do with the query taking too long.
regards Mike
Mike, sometimes you get a "snapshot too old" because your rollback
segments really are too small. How large are your segments in
relation to the amount of data (include index changes) you are trying
to change. Another common cause is too frequently committing during a
process that reads and updates the same table.
Unlike say DB2 UDB which says to commit often Oracle is designed so
that you should do large amounts of work between commits if concurrent
access requirements allow. If your are updating then OLTP activity
against the same table limits how long you want to hold a modified row
while inserts have no such concurrent activity and can be held for a
longer period without affecting any other session.
Also as you mentioned speeding up the processing of the query will
also reduce the chance of a snapshot too old error if the cause of the
problem is other sessions changing and committing data you need in
very small transactions. How does the explain look? Does the join
order appear to be the best order? Is the join method the best choice
for the data in question? Are you dealing with skewed data values?
If you are using an UNDO tablespace instead of manually configured
rollback setting the undo_retention period to be longer may help you
out.
HTH -- Mark D Powell --
HTH -- Mark D Powell -- This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics
by: Rhino |
last post by:
One of my friends, Scott, is a consultant who doesn't currently have
newsgroup access so I am asking these questions for him. I'll be telling him
how to monitor the answers via Google Newsgroup...
|
by: C P |
last post by:
I'm looking for some good comparisons between Oracle and SQL Server. Can
anyone provide some good links? I'm looking to answer "which is better for
me", as opposed to, "which is better". Most of...
|
by: Mark A |
last post by:
Here is Mark Townsend's (Oracle Product Manager) explanation and
justification for posting in the DB2 newsgroup, as posted on the Oracle
newsgroup, and my response:
"Mark Townsend"...
|
by: Chris Hohmann |
last post by:
"Mujahid" <mujahid@iqura.netwrote in message
news:OuhAYozFAHA.271@cppssbbsa04...
me
Oracle Database Utilities (Data Pump/SQL Loader)
http://otn.oracle.com/products/database/utilities/index.html...
|
by: michael newport |
last post by:
Dear friends of database(s),
After 13 years of Ingres, I am now using Oracle.
But is Oracle technically better than Ingres.
I would be much obliged if anyone could shed some light on the...
|
by: CloudSolutions |
last post by:
Introduction:
For many beginners and individual users, requiring a credit card and email registration may pose a barrier when starting to use cloud servers. However, some cloud server providers now...
|
by: Faith0G |
last post by:
I am starting a new it consulting business and it's been a while since I setup a new website. Is wordpress still the best web based software for hosting a 5 page website? The webpages will be...
|
by: ryjfgjl |
last post by:
In our work, we often need to import Excel data into databases (such as MySQL, SQL Server, Oracle) for data analysis and processing. Usually, we use database tools like Navicat or the Excel import...
|
by: Charles Arthur |
last post by:
How do i turn on java script on a villaon, callus and itel keypad mobile phone
|
by: ryjfgjl |
last post by:
In our work, we often receive Excel tables with data in the same format. If we want to analyze these data, it can be difficult to analyze them because the data is spread across multiple Excel files...
|
by: emmanuelkatto |
last post by:
Hi All, I am Emmanuel katto from Uganda. I want to ask what challenges you've faced while migrating a website to cloud.
Please let me know.
Thanks!
Emmanuel
|
by: BarryA |
last post by:
What are the essential steps and strategies outlined in the Data Structures and Algorithms (DSA) roadmap for aspiring data scientists? How can individuals effectively utilize this roadmap to progress...
|
by: Sonnysonu |
last post by:
This is the data of csv file
1 2 3
1 2 3
1 2 3
1 2 3
2 3
2 3
3
the lengths should be different i have to store the data by column-wise with in the specific length.
suppose the i have to...
|
by: Hystou |
last post by:
There are some requirements for setting up RAID:
1. The motherboard and BIOS support RAID configuration.
2. The motherboard has 2 or more available SATA protocol SSD/HDD slots (including MSATA, M.2...
| |