Certification on 9i .

[Oba]

I am currently hitting my head on the wall to get certified on 9i, but we
now have 10g, so do I hold off or continue my work? Please advice thanks.

[Hans Forbrich]

Oba wrote:

I am currently hitting my head on the wall to get certified on 9i, but we
now have 10g, so do I hold off or continue my work? Please advice thanks.

Several of the professional here will say neither cert. is necessary, or
even a waste of time and money. (My belief: use the cert. as a guide for
your studies and make your goal to be a superior DBA - then being certified
is an extra.)

You need to realize that many certification exams have errors (I'm finding
it's not isolated to Oracle's exams). As a result there is some doubt to
the 'worth' of certification (look through the archives for the
discussions).

When you study, make sure you understand the reality as well as the
'material'. Personally test each example. Realize the 'books' and 'self
test' guides generally have the same mistakes as the exams - you should be
solid enough to know reality and strong enough to accept the fact the tests
can (will) be wrong.

If, after the above you still want to proceed ... I'm finding there are a
lot of 9i installations around and more planned. Many companies are
looking at 10g with interest - but waiting a while. If you plan on
supporting a 9i environment in the next 2 years, keep plugging away. Then
just take the upgrade exam.

/Hans

[Daniel Morgan]

Oba wrote:

I am currently hitting my head on the wall to get certified on 9i, but we
now have 10g, so do I hold off or continue my work? Please advice thanks.

Hans is correct. I think the certs are a waste of time and money. It
won't get you a job and it won't get you the skills you need to get
a job.

Why do I say that? Go to http://www.dice.com, http://www.hotjobs.com,
http://www.monster.com and see how many jobs there are for "Oracle"
then see how many jobs for "Oracle AND OCP".

That said I am a strong believer in education so I think classes
are worth a lot ... provided they are not taught by a certificate
mill ... meaning a company that doesn't teach you hands-on skills
but rather just the correct answers to a paper test.

--
Daniel Morgan
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...ad/oad_crs.asp
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...oa/aoa_crs.asp
da******@x.washington.edu
(replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)

[Dave]

"Daniel Morgan" <da******@x.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:1082727979.601882@yasure...

Oba wrote:

I am currently hitting my head on the wall to get certified on 9i, but we now have 10g, so do I hold off or continue my work? Please advice

thanks.
Hans is correct. I think the certs are a waste of time and money. It
won't get you a job and it won't get you the skills you need to get
a job.

Why do I say that? Go to http://www.dice.com, http://www.hotjobs.com,
http://www.monster.com and see how many jobs there are for "Oracle"
then see how many jobs for "Oracle AND OCP".

That said I am a strong believer in education so I think classes
are worth a lot ... provided they are not taught by a certificate
mill ... meaning a company that doesn't teach you hands-on skills
but rather just the correct answers to a paper test.

--
Daniel Morgan
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...ad/oad_crs.asp
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...oa/aoa_crs.asp
da******@x.washington.edu
(replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)

It may not get you a job on its own - but it could well get you and
interview and may well be a differntiator between two people

[Daniel Morgan]

Dave wrote:

It may not get you a job on its own - but it could well get you and
interview and may well be a differntiator between two people

In this part of the planet ... it won't even get you an interview.
In fact just the opposite in some situations.

Your mileage may vary depending on where you are on the planet.
--
Daniel Morgan
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...ad/oad_crs.asp
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...oa/aoa_crs.asp
da******@x.washington.edu
(replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)

[Joel Garry]

Daniel Morgan <da******@x.washington.edu> wrote in message news:<1082727979.601882@yasure>...

Oba wrote:

I am currently hitting my head on the wall to get certified on 9i, but we
now have 10g, so do I hold off or continue my work? Please advice thanks.
Hans is correct. I think the certs are a waste of time and money. It
won't get you a job and it won't get you the skills you need to get
a job.

Why do I say that? Go to http://www.dice.com, http://www.hotjobs.com,
http://www.monster.com and see how many jobs there are for "Oracle"
then see how many jobs for "Oracle AND OCP".

Use "Certification" instead of "OCP". Of course, this picks up places
that want you to have Oracle and networking certs, but how silly is
that?

That said I am a strong believer in education so I think classes
are worth a lot ... provided they are not taught by a certificate
mill ... meaning a company that doesn't teach you hands-on skills
but rather just the correct answers to a paper test.

Pretty much agree with you and Hans, but must point out to the OP the
divergence between reality and the HR "professionals." The HR people
don't generally understand that there may be differences between
different types of certification. So I'd say "continue your work,"
because it documents that you are interested in continuing your career
over time.

jg
--
@home.com is bogus. "When I was a kid the Mafia ran the numbers
racket and the government ran the jails. Today, the government runs
the numbers racket and the jails are turned over to private industry.
I'm not sure exactly what kind of progress that is." - Some
journalists' fishing buddy.

[Don Million]

There are some companies where certification will help you get past HR
to the hiring manager. There are practically NO companies where
certification would be viewed as a negative. So, bottom line is, it
can't hurt.

[Michael]

I was just hired as an Oracle DBA. Though I have been a DBA for a few
years having an OCP was a major factor in me getting the job as I do
not have a college degree.

I also attended Oracle University (4 courses). This seemed to give
the employer a sense of insurance. A new employee is always seen a
little bit as a risk.
Hope this helps,

Michael

[Daniel Morgan]

Don Million wrote:

There are some companies where certification will help you get past HR
to the hiring manager. There are practically NO companies where
certification would be viewed as a negative. So, bottom line is, it
can't hurt.

Except your checkbook balance.

--
Daniel Morgan
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...ad/oad_crs.asp
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...oa/aoa_crs.asp
da******@x.washington.edu
(replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)

[Rich Sias]

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:34:18 UTC, "Dave" <da*************@ntlXworld.com>
wrote:

"Daniel Morgan" <da******@x.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:1082727979.601882@yasure...

Why do I say that? Go to http://www.dice.com, http://www.hotjobs.com,
http://www.monster.com and see how many jobs there are for "Oracle"
then see how many jobs for "Oracle AND OCP".

That said I am a strong believer in education so I think classes
are worth a lot ... provided they are not taught by a certificate
mill ... meaning a company that doesn't teach you hands-on skills
but rather just the correct answers to a paper test.

It may not get you a job on its own - but it could well get you and
interview and may well be a differntiator between two people

I have seen several messages along these lines. I DO have 9+ years
experience with an obscure database. Many of these skills are useful in any
database setting. I'm looking to getting a "crash" education so that I can
drop in a "5 years" experience slot and not embarass myself to much. I did
a little work with Oracle 5 and none since. Alot has changed I am sure
since we are now up to 10g. I was just over on the oracle site and found:
1. self - study CDs, 2. certification exams (OCP?) and 3. Online Library of
400 courses.

What do you recommend, 1,2 and/or 3 ? I figure with 9 years and some
Oracle mention may get past the HR filter and to the real person to talk
to. They will find out undoubtedly that the Oracle is NOT the 9 years but
useful nevertheless. I expect the courses to take several weeks to
complete because of the volume of coverage. Do either courses offer
"hands-on" to experience errors speed differences etc. So one can learn
more than just syntax issues?
--
Rich Sias

dba seeking new employment

[Daniel Morgan]

Rich Sias wrote:

I have seen several messages along these lines. I DO have 9+ years
experience with an obscure database. Many of these skills are useful in any
database setting. I'm looking to getting a "crash" education so that I can
drop in a "5 years" experience slot and not embarass myself to much. I did
a little work with Oracle 5 and none since. Alot has changed I am sure
since we are now up to 10g. I was just over on the oracle site and found:
1. self - study CDs, 2. certification exams (OCP?) and 3. Online Library of
400 courses.

I still recommend you forget the whole thing. But since you obviously
aren't interested in such advice ... I suggest you make sure you
understand the following:

1. How the multiversion concurrency model works?
2. How to join tables in both ANSI and ISO syntax
3. How to find all of the column names belonging to a table in
a different schema to which you have the UPDATE privilege

And that you can solve the following on a whiteboard:

Assuming two tables with identical structure. Write a single SQL
statement that will determine all of the rows in the first table
that are not in the second and all of the rows in the second that
are not in the first. The result set should identify the table
that was the source of each row identified.

--
Daniel Morgan
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...ad/oad_crs.asp
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...oa/aoa_crs.asp
da******@x.washington.edu
(replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)

[Lucas]

"Oba" <ob******@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<c6**********@sparta.btinternet.com>...

I am currently hitting my head on the wall to get certified on 9i, but we
now have 10g, so do I hold off or continue my work? Please advice thanks.

I am currently studying for Oracle9i OCP (passed first 2 exams, have
the 3rd's book in front of me but I am slacking off doing this). Go
for you Oracle9i and keep on track. Make a plan and study to it. It
helps to purchase your next Exam, book it with prometric, and mark it
on the calendar.

Yes, the value of Certification is certainly contraversial. It
certainly does not mean that you are a serious DBA and are hireable,
but it does mean something. In the least, it means that you had some
commitment to studying Oracle and that you gained some level of book
understanding of the fundamentals. It is another item to add to the
resume and it does give you a goal for learning Oracle better.
Experience is superior, but OCP can only help.

For me, these are the reasons I am studying for OCP Certification (In
Order):
1. Personal Accomplishment -- and Certificate on the Office Cube
2. Learn more Oracle -- Gain some degree of better understanding of
Oracle Database Technology
3. Professional Accomplishment -- to show to my Director and provide
some tangible item of professional growth (maybe he will feel more
confident and be just a bit more likely to put me in like for an
increase/promotion)
4. Resume Item -- every little bit helps
5. Make Larry Ellison proud (just kidding)

I am thinking about going for my OCM afterwards. Now that looks
tough. 2 days of hand-on lab testing. Only offered in Chicago.
There are only about 100 in the world (vs like 150,000+ for OCP).

Lucas

Lucas C. Lukasiak
http://www.ctoug.org/

[GregoryD]

"Daniel Morgan" <da******@x.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:1082768760.767181@yasure...

Dave wrote:

It may not get you a job on its own - but it could well get you and
interview and may well be a differntiator between two people

In this part of the planet ... it won't even get you an interview.
In fact just the opposite in some situations.

Only if the guy doing the hiring is a complete tool.

Now, I put a lot of people to work, so here's the IT recruiting side of it:
I'll always take a guy with 5 years of experience over a guy who just
read about a topic and got a certificate. I have a friend who is one of
the worst coders on the friggin planet, yet she continues to find work
because she has work experience. If I have to discern between two
guys with similar backgrounds and skillsets and the money is the same,
I'll go with the certified professional. Certifications are just like your
references... the better they are, the better you are.

Frankly, though, I think that you'd be better off spending the money on
a Dale Carnegie session or two. There are plenty of people out there
with a lot of technical knowledge and the personality of a tree stump.
Selling yourself is one of the most important parts in getting any job,
and too many people have absolutely no clue how to do it.

GregoryD