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What's your compensation for carrying a pager???

P: n/a
My employer currently pays me $1/hour when I carry a pager. I have to
carry the pager every fourth week. The problem is that my employer
insists that I be available when I'm carrying the pager. So, for $1/hr
they expect me to remain within pager range, remain sober, and be
available to come to work. That really sucks on weekends. No going
to the beach (out of pager range) or out to a friend's cottage (out of pager
range), etc. Declining to carry the pager is NOT an option.

I'm curious what compensation others get and more importantly, what's
your employers expectation of your availability when you're on-call?

Thanks.
Jul 19 '05 #1
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36 Replies


P: n/a
"Richard" <pa*******@spamex.com> wrote in message
news:eI6bc.9796$Ig.3374@pd7tw2no...
My employer currently pays me $1/hour when I carry a pager. I have to
carry the pager every fourth week. The problem is that my employer
insists that I be available when I'm carrying the pager. So, for $1/hr
they expect me to remain within pager range, remain sober, and be
available to come to work. That really sucks on weekends. No going
to the beach (out of pager range) or out to a friend's cottage (out of pager range), etc. Declining to carry the pager is NOT an option.

I'm curious what compensation others get and more importantly, what's
your employers expectation of your availability when you're on-call?

Thanks.

For most employee's in a support role, carrying a pager and being available
on nights and weekends to respond to problems is a condition of employment
and they do not receive anything extra. The $1 per hour is probably to just
protect themselves from legal problems. In reality, the amount you receive
for carrying the pager is irrelevant. What is important is the total
compensation you receive. If you don't like your job or your total
compensation package, look for another job.
Jul 19 '05 #2

P: n/a

"Richard" <pa*******@spamex.com> wrote in message
news:eI6bc.9796$Ig.3374@pd7tw2no...
My employer currently pays me $1/hour when I carry a pager. I have to
carry the pager every fourth week. The problem is that my employer
insists that I be available when I'm carrying the pager. So, for $1/hr
they expect me to remain within pager range, remain sober, and be
available to come to work. That really sucks on weekends. No going
to the beach (out of pager range) or out to a friend's cottage (out of pager range), etc. Declining to carry the pager is NOT an option.

We pay $100/week. That's generally 12 hours overnight, and 48 hours on the
weekend.

So, I guess that's less than $1/hour.

We expect them to generally be within 15-30 minutes of a computer.

They don't need to come into work, they can work from home.

If any call takes an hour or more they also earn 1:1 comp time for those
calls.

We are flexible though and permit folks to change shifts as often as they
want (typically every other night it's a new person).

We only have 2 people currently carrying the page however, so it can get
rough.

On the same token we don't get too many pages and most are resolved within
10 minutes.

I'm curious what compensation others get and more importantly, what's
your employers expectation of your availability when you're on-call?

Thanks.

Jul 19 '05 #3

P: n/a

"Richard" <pa*******@spamex.com> wrote in message
news:eI6bc.9796$Ig.3374@pd7tw2no...
My employer currently pays me $1/hour when I carry a pager. I have to
carry the pager every fourth week. The problem is that my employer
insists that I be available when I'm carrying the pager. So, for $1/hr
they expect me to remain within pager range, remain sober, and be
available to come to work. That really sucks on weekends. No going
to the beach (out of pager range) or out to a friend's cottage (out of pager range), etc. Declining to carry the pager is NOT an option.

I'm curious what compensation others get and more importantly, what's
your employers expectation of your availability when you're on-call?

Thanks.

One employer I worked for was $250 per week another was $1 per non-work hour
(outside of the normal 9-5 weekday) plus time and a half if a call was
received in 15 minute increments.
Jim
Jul 19 '05 #4

P: n/a

"Jim Kennedy" <ke****************************@attbi.net> wrote in message
news:Z7gbc.61164$JO3.38313@attbi_s04...
|
| "Richard" <pa*******@spamex.com> wrote in message
| news:eI6bc.9796$Ig.3374@pd7tw2no...
| > My employer currently pays me $1/hour when I carry a pager. I have to
| > carry the pager every fourth week. The problem is that my employer
| > insists that I be available when I'm carrying the pager. So, for $1/hr
| > they expect me to remain within pager range, remain sober, and be
| > available to come to work. That really sucks on weekends. No going
| > to the beach (out of pager range) or out to a friend's cottage (out of
| pager
| > range), etc. Declining to carry the pager is NOT an option.
| >
| > I'm curious what compensation others get and more importantly, what's
| > your employers expectation of your availability when you're on-call?
| >
| > Thanks.
| >
| >
| One employer I worked for was $250 per week another was $1 per non-work
hour
| (outside of the normal 9-5 weekday) plus time and a half if a call was
| received in 15 minute increments.
| Jim
|
|

the time+half at 15 min intervals seems reasonable (much more reasonable
than the 1st hour free, rest at comp time -- if i understood the earlier
post properly)

;-{ mcs
Jul 19 '05 #5

P: n/a
Richard wrote:
My employer currently pays me $1/hour when I carry a pager. I have to
carry the pager every fourth week. The problem is that my employer
insists that I be available when I'm carrying the pager. So, for $1/hr
they expect me to remain within pager range, remain sober, and be
available to come to work. That really sucks on weekends. No going
to the beach (out of pager range) or out to a friend's cottage (out of pager
range), etc. Declining to carry the pager is NOT an option.

I'm curious what compensation others get and more importantly, what's
your employers expectation of your availability when you're on-call?

Thanks.

I carry a pager and a cell, and get squat for it, its a condition of
employment. We take turns being on call for weekends, but basically we
all are anyway, the on-call person will just contact me if the problem
is db related anyway, same goes for our network guys, as400 guys etc.
I do a lot of after hours monitoring & work on my own anyway, in turn I
get a lot of flexibility, if I want to leave early to watch one of my
kids school event I go, no questions asked. As long as everything runs
and runs smoothly things are ok. Works for me anyway...
cheers

Jul 19 '05 #6

P: n/a
Richard wrote:
My employer currently pays me $1/hour when I carry a pager. I have to
carry the pager every fourth week. The problem is that my employer
insists that I be available when I'm carrying the pager. So, for $1/hr
they expect me to remain within pager range, remain sober, and be
available to come to work. That really sucks on weekends. No going
to the beach (out of pager range) or out to a friend's cottage (out of pager
range), etc. Declining to carry the pager is NOT an option.

I'm curious what compensation others get and more importantly, what's
your employers expectation of your availability when you're on-call?


ZERO!

Jul 19 '05 #7

P: n/a
RE/
I'm curious what compensation others get and more importantly, what's
your employers expectation of your availability when you're on-call?


Same as my compensation for carrying a cell phone 24-7, giving the number to
everybody I work with, and always answering it unless I'm sitting on the
crapper: my clients don't ditch me in favor of somebody who does.
--
PeteCresswell
Jul 19 '05 #8

P: n/a

"Richard" <pa*******@spamex.com> wrote in message
news:eI6bc.9796$Ig.3374@pd7tw2no...
My employer currently pays me $1/hour when I carry a pager. I have to
carry the pager every fourth week. The problem is that my employer
insists that I be available when I'm carrying the pager. So, for $1/hr
they expect me to remain within pager range, remain sober, and be
available to come to work. That really sucks on weekends. No going
to the beach (out of pager range) or out to a friend's cottage (out of pager range), etc. Declining to carry the pager is NOT an option.

I'm curious what compensation others get and more importantly, what's
your employers expectation of your availability when you're on-call?

Thanks.

Richard,
I've been thinking on this more. One incentive that paying the on call
person for their after hours time is to have the system run smoothly and
make the occasion rare when someone actually has to be called. By paying
more when the on call person has to respond to an emergency there is
incentive to minimize emergencies. (I don't mean by not calling when there
is a problem, but rather trying to set up processes and proper maint. so
these are fewer.) Everyone wins in this situation. (more up time, less
emergencies)
Jim
Jul 19 '05 #9

P: n/a
> Same as my compensation for carrying a cell phone 24-7, giving the number to
everybody I work with, and always answering it unless I'm sitting on the
crapper: my clients don't ditch me in favor of somebody who does.


I'm sorry, a true consultant answers the phone even on the crapper ;-)

Neil Pike MVP/MCSE. Protech Computing Ltd
Reply here - no email
SQL FAQ (484 entries) see
http://forumsb.compuserve.com/gvforu...?SRV=MSDevApps
(faqxxx.zip in lib 7)
or http://www.ntfaq.com/Articles/Index....partmentID=800
or www.sqlserverfaq.com
or www.mssqlserver.com/faq

Jul 19 '05 #10

P: n/a
Well... When I started at this company we shared the time on 3 persons, so
we had to be on call every third week.. Then we had around $5.5/hr on
outofoffice time... And $40/hr when the phone rang. 1:st hr paid in full no
matter if we solved the problem in 5 minutes or in 1 hr. Same if we had to
log on remotely from home. If we had to go to the office we got 3 hrs paid
directly ( no matter if it took 5 minutes or 3 hrs ). If it took longer than
the time we already got paid for it was $40/hr... And we had to be available
24hrs a day from Monday 5am to Saturday 4.30pm ( we didn't have to be on
call after that since there were no production then )

But then we had to be able to either get logged in or be at the factory
within 1 hr.

The the factory was sold and we got another agreement that gaves us $1.85/hr
no matter if we have to go in or not. Now we don't have to be on call at all
since everything has been running so smoothly and we haven't got a single
call for over a year that is systemsrelated ( databases and servers ) and
the IT support has been outsourced.... :-)

/Jari

"Richard" <pa*******@spamex.com> wrote in message
news:eI6bc.9796$Ig.3374@pd7tw2no...
My employer currently pays me $1/hour when I carry a pager. I have to
carry the pager every fourth week. The problem is that my employer
insists that I be available when I'm carrying the pager. So, for $1/hr
they expect me to remain within pager range, remain sober, and be
available to come to work. That really sucks on weekends. No going
to the beach (out of pager range) or out to a friend's cottage (out of pager range), etc. Declining to carry the pager is NOT an option.

I'm curious what compensation others get and more importantly, what's
your employers expectation of your availability when you're on-call?

Thanks.

Jul 19 '05 #11

P: n/a

"Neil Pike" <ne******@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:VA******************@compuserve.com...
Same as my compensation for carrying a cell phone 24-7, giving the number to everybody I work with, and always answering it unless I'm sitting on the
crapper: my clients don't ditch me in favor of somebody who does.


I'm sorry, a true consultant answers the phone even on the crapper ;-)

Neil Pike MVP/MCSE. Protech Computing Ltd
Reply here - no email
SQL FAQ (484 entries) see
http://forumsb.compuserve.com/gvforu...?SRV=MSDevApps
(faqxxx.zip in lib 7)
or http://www.ntfaq.com/Articles/Index....partmentID=800
or www.sqlserverfaq.com
or www.mssqlserver.com/faq

Just don't flush while on the phone!
Jim
Jul 19 '05 #12

P: n/a
Richard wrote:
My employer currently pays me $1/hour when I carry a pager. I have to
carry the pager every fourth week. The problem is that my employer
insists that I be available when I'm carrying the pager. So, for $1/hr
they expect me to remain within pager range, remain sober, and be
available to come to work. That really sucks on weekends. No going
to the beach (out of pager range) or out to a friend's cottage (out of pager
range), etc. Declining to carry the pager is NOT an option.

I'm curious what compensation others get and more importantly, what's
your employers expectation of your availability when you're on-call?

Thanks.


When I started with my employer 2 years ago, we did not get any compensation at all for after hours 2nd level support.
During those days, you can almost expect a call when you are on shift.
Either 1st level support calls us directly or the boss does.

Nowadays, however, we get an additional $1000(AU) before tax per month to our pay,
after a change in the structure of the company. Plus there are not too much calls
after several of the issues from before have been sorted out one at a time.

Jul 19 '05 #13

P: n/a
RE/
I'm sorry, a true consultant answers the phone even on the crapper ;-)


Mea Culpa.... I *was* doing that..but kept getting caught when the guy next to
me flushed. "Gsssssssssshhhhhhh" "Pete...what's that noise?
Eeeeeewwww...Gross!"
--
PeteCresswell
Jul 19 '05 #14

P: n/a

"Mark C. Stock" <mcstockX@Xenquery .com> wrote in message
news:zb********************@comcast.com...
the time+half at 15 min intervals seems reasonable (much more reasonable
than the 1st hour free, rest at comp time -- if i understood the earlier
post properly)


Not quite clear in my post.

If the problem takes 5 minutes to fix, no pay... if it takes an hour to fix,
you get an hour of comp time.

What if it take 35 minutes... eh... I tell my folks to round up. :-)

(actually in general, especially at night I recommend they round up since
once you figure lack of sleep, etc... even the simpler calls take an hour.)

It's not as good as I'd like, but about the best we can do.


;-{ mcs

Jul 19 '05 #15

P: n/a
LOL

M eeee n people are too happy to be paid the large $ks
Sometimes some one looks for reasons to prove that they
worked after hours on something, may be trival and
not too necessary to be done at 2:25am on a weekend.

How about if every week "boss man" has at least
an incident of reinitializing one system or
restarting the communications PDA at 2:21am.
It thus looks like apart from giving you "Nada"
"Rien" you should be glad to have the savvy leash on
to seperate the "pros" from the rest in my case.
It is not uncommon to erroneously feel like
it is some kind of privilege
to attach a pager "savvy leash" on the straps of your pants
After all how many people work in IT and how many have pagers.
Money for carrying the pager? You are kidding me
Look somewhere else brother.
Well if you are paid for spending time on a discussion group
doing nothing which is directly job related may be you could as well
work a few extra hours when need arises.
TY
Jul 19 '05 #16

P: n/a
Compensation? They told me it was a bonus! ;-)

"Richard" <pa*******@spamex.com> wrote in
news:eI6bc.9796$Ig.3374@pd7tw2no:
My employer currently pays me $1/hour when I carry a pager. I have
to carry the pager every fourth week. The problem is that my employer
insists that I be available when I'm carrying the pager. So, for
$1/hr they expect me to remain within pager range, remain sober, and
be available to come to work. That really sucks on weekends. No
going to the beach (out of pager range) or out to a friend's cottage
(out of pager range), etc. Declining to carry the pager is NOT an
option.

I'm curious what compensation others get and more importantly, what's
your employers expectation of your availability when you're on-call?

Thanks.


Jul 19 '05 #17

P: n/a
I am on call 24x7x365. No extra pay. Salary low six figures.

"Richard" <pa*******@spamex.com> wrote in message news:<eI6bc.9796$Ig.3374@pd7tw2no>...
My employer currently pays me $1/hour when I carry a pager. I have to
carry the pager every fourth week. The problem is that my employer
insists that I be available when I'm carrying the pager. So, for $1/hr
they expect me to remain within pager range, remain sober, and be
available to come to work. That really sucks on weekends. No going
to the beach (out of pager range) or out to a friend's cottage (out of pager
range), etc. Declining to carry the pager is NOT an option.

I'm curious what compensation others get and more importantly, what's
your employers expectation of your availability when you're on-call?

Thanks.

Jul 19 '05 #18

P: n/a
At my company, working on-call is a choice.
They used to pay 1 hour out of 4 while on on-call shift.
We had to carry a cell phone, and being available to receive calls and
connect to work in less than 1 hour. It used to be a reward.
Then they choose to pay a fix amount of money (similar to the 1 out of
4), depending on the project and budget.
The problem was that they began to ask for *monitoring* runs, that is
not an on-call activity. And because of business issues (budget),
there were some reported bugs that made the application fail every
night.

I think that oncall work should be optional and well rewarded. And the
application should be in a maturity level that could fail only 1 out
of 3 nights.

"Richard" <pa*******@spamex.com> wrote in message news:<eI6bc.9796$Ig.3374@pd7tw2no>...
My employer currently pays me $1/hour when I carry a pager. I have to
carry the pager every fourth week. The problem is that my employer
insists that I be available when I'm carrying the pager. So, for $1/hr
they expect me to remain within pager range, remain sober, and be
available to come to work. That really sucks on weekends. No going
to the beach (out of pager range) or out to a friend's cottage (out of pager
range), etc. Declining to carry the pager is NOT an option.

I'm curious what compensation others get and more importantly, what's
your employers expectation of your availability when you're on-call?

Thanks.

Jul 19 '05 #19

P: n/a
One Billion Dollars. Tell them they need a pager that will work in the area
where you go.
"Richard" <pa*******@spamex.com> wrote in message
news:eI6bc.9796$Ig.3374@pd7tw2no...
My employer currently pays me $1/hour when I carry a pager. I have to
carry the pager every fourth week. The problem is that my employer
insists that I be available when I'm carrying the pager. So, for $1/hr
they expect me to remain within pager range, remain sober, and be
available to come to work. That really sucks on weekends. No going
to the beach (out of pager range) or out to a friend's cottage (out of pager range), etc. Declining to carry the pager is NOT an option.

I'm curious what compensation others get and more importantly, what's
your employers expectation of your availability when you're on-call?

Thanks.

Jul 19 '05 #20

P: n/a
In comp.databases.ms-sqlserver Richard <pa*******@spamex.com> wrote:
I'm curious what compensation others get and more importantly, what's
your employers expectation of your availability when you're on-call?


I get about 85 euros per week (I'm on-call every other week) plus if there
is a customer-related problem¹, I get 85 euros. Also, whether it's our
system or the customer's that's acting up, I get compensatory time
off. For every call between 10pm and 8 am or during the weekend, it's
two hours minimum (even if solving the problem only takes five minutes),
between 4pm and 10pm it's 1 hour.

We use cellphones, both voice calls and SMS messaging for the alerts. I
have only gotten one voice call so far, but numerous SMS messages. The SMS
messages are generated by our watchdog programs that monitor the network
and the servers. Generally it's enough I fix the problem within an hour. I
can do this from home, and we also have a laptop with a GSM card which can
also be used (so I don't have to stay home either).

¹ This could be something like customer's network being down or if they
call me uneccesarily.

--
Marko Poutiainen | These are my principles.
me*@paju.oulu.fi | If you don't like them, I have others.
http://www.toffeeweb.com | -Groucho Marx
Jul 19 '05 #21

P: n/a
Wow! It's amazing - I had no clue so many people got incentives to
carry the pager around! We have a team of 25+ developers, supporting a
24x6 worldwide system, and management requires everyone to carry the
pager all around - plus, our support system is not very refined - it
just sends all problems to everyone, which means everyone gets some 10
pages every night, most of which are junk status messages from servers
- take a look and fall back to sleep. and of course, we don't get paid
a cent extra.

The only way we beat the system is claim the pager ran out of juice
just when we get caught at not responding to it!

cheers :)
"Richard" <pa*******@spamex.com> wrote in message news:<eI6bc.9796$Ig.3374@pd7tw2no>...
My employer currently pays me $1/hour when I carry a pager. I have to
carry the pager every fourth week. The problem is that my employer
insists that I be available when I'm carrying the pager. So, for $1/hr
they expect me to remain within pager range, remain sober, and be
available to come to work. That really sucks on weekends. No going
to the beach (out of pager range) or out to a friend's cottage (out of pager
range), etc. Declining to carry the pager is NOT an option.

I'm curious what compensation others get and more importantly, what's
your employers expectation of your availability when you're on-call?

Thanks.

Jul 19 '05 #22

P: n/a
"Kundan" <ks**@caip.rutgers.edu> wrote in message
news:53**************************@posting.google.c om...
Wow! It's amazing - I had no clue so many people got incentives to
carry the pager around! We have a team of 25+ developers, supporting a
24x6 worldwide system, and management requires everyone to carry the
pager all around - plus, our support system is not very refined - it
just sends all problems to everyone, which means everyone gets some 10
pages every night, most of which are junk status messages from servers
- take a look and fall back to sleep. and of course, we don't get paid
a cent extra.

The only way we beat the system is claim the pager ran out of juice
just when we get caught at not responding to it!

cheers :)

It is not so amazing if you were to look at each person's total compensation
package. Also, it depends on their job responsibilities, since people who
created a system should not be paid more if they have to spend time fixing
it.
Jul 19 '05 #23

P: n/a
I previously worked for a major telecommunications corp. Originally
they compensated 1:1 for every hour that a 'paged' worker spent
responding to a problem, and also an hourly rate for simply being on
call. Then, with no apology, reason, or explanation, they terminated
that policy and gave no compensation whatsoever for being on call or
responding.
Then, (and I still have trouble believing the incredible gall of this
company), without permission, almost without prior notice, they
started sending the monthly leasing bills for each pager to the
employee who wore it, and expected the employee to pay the bill, which
had been recontracted under their name. Each employee then had to
submit a reimbursement request each month to recoup the expense. I
still feel this was highly illegal, and the employees should have
risen up and sued.
Jul 19 '05 #24

P: n/a
"Sean C." <db*****@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2f**************************@posting.google.c om...
I previously worked for a major telecommunications corp. Originally
they compensated 1:1 for every hour that a 'paged' worker spent
responding to a problem, and also an hourly rate for simply being on
call. Then, with no apology, reason, or explanation, they terminated
that policy and gave no compensation whatsoever for being on call or
responding.
Then, (and I still have trouble believing the incredible gall of this
company), without permission, almost without prior notice, they
started sending the monthly leasing bills for each pager to the
employee who wore it, and expected the employee to pay the bill, which
had been recontracted under their name. Each employee then had to
submit a reimbursement request each month to recoup the expense. I
still feel this was highly illegal, and the employees should have
risen up and sued.


Many companies require that employees pay for things and then ask for
reimbursement. It is the best way to ensure that the company is not paying
for duplicate pagers, something that pager companies have a habit of doing.

As to not paying for being on call, if you don't like it, you can quit your
job. They have the right to change your pay at any time, and you the right
to quit at any time (unless you have a contract of some sort). Works both
ways.
Jul 19 '05 #25

P: n/a
RE/
I get about 85 euros per week (I'm on-call every other week) plus if there
is a customer-related problem?, I get 85 euros. Also, whether it's our
system or the customer's that's acting up, I get compensatory time
off. For every call between 10pm and 8 am or during the weekend, it's
two hours minimum (even if solving the problem only takes five minutes),
between 4pm and 10pm it's 1 hour.


Union shop?

--
PeteCresswell
Jul 19 '05 #26

P: n/a
In comp.databases.ms-sqlserver "(Pete Cresswell)" <x@y.z> wrote:
I get about 85 euros per week (I'm on-call every other week) plus if there
is a customer-related problem?, I get 85 euros. Also, whether it's our
system or the customer's that's acting up, I get compensatory time
off. For every call between 10pm and 8 am or during the weekend, it's
two hours minimum (even if solving the problem only takes five minutes),
between 4pm and 10pm it's 1 hour.
Union shop?


Sorry?

--
Marko Poutiainen | These are my principles.
me*@paju.oulu.fi | If you don't like them, I have others.
http://www.toffeeweb.com | -Groucho Marx
Jul 19 '05 #27

P: n/a
RE/
Union shop?


Sorry?


Do the workers belong to a labor union?
--
PeteCresswell
Jul 19 '05 #28

P: n/a
In comp.databases.ms-sqlserver "(Pete Cresswell)" <x@y.z> wrote:
Union shop?
Sorry?

Do the workers belong to a labor union?


Some do. I don't. But union shops are, er, well I haven't seen one in my
life and I think they have been history for at least 40 years.

--
Marko Poutiainen | These are my principles.
me*@paju.oulu.fi | If you don't like them, I have others.
http://www.toffeeweb.com | -Groucho Marx
Jul 19 '05 #29

P: n/a
This thread overwhelms me. People seem to be asking the wrong
question.

The question is, "Are you a professional or not?"

If yes, then you are renting your professional knowledge/skills. You
are not renting your time. If you are an MBA renting your skills as a
trash evacuator, you are paid by the hour; if you are renting your
skills as a people-manager, then you are paid to execute the tasks of
your position. The former gets overtime, the latter does not, even if
it takes 24/7 to do the job.

Perhaps job descriptions are not clear enough. Recent definitions re
labor standards stratify the workforce by salary: Under $23,500,
madatory overtime; over $65,000; no overtime unless contracted
otherwise; between, depends on the contract.

I won't bore anyone with my personal reasons. I am a physician (MD in
practice), an MBA (consultant in practice), and an active database
programmer. For details about why I feel as I do, write me privately.
(In 35 years of medical practice, I have never received a cent for
being on call 24/7/365. On the toilet, during sex, at my parent's
funeral, nor any other time.)

Stan

"Richard" <pa*******@spamex.com> wrote in message news:<eI6bc.9796$Ig.3374@pd7tw2no>...
My employer currently pays me $1/hour when I carry a pager. I have to
carry the pager every fourth week. The problem is that my employer
insists that I be available when I'm carrying the pager. So, for $1/hr
they expect me to remain within pager range, remain sober, and be
available to come to work. That really sucks on weekends. No going
to the beach (out of pager range) or out to a friend's cottage (out of pager
range), etc. Declining to carry the pager is NOT an option.

I'm curious what compensation others get and more importantly, what's
your employers expectation of your availability when you're on-call?

Thanks.

Jul 19 '05 #30

P: n/a

"Stanley Sinclair" <st*************@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:6f**************************@posting.google.c om...
This thread overwhelms me. People seem to be asking the wrong
question.

The question is, "Are you a professional or not?"

If yes, then you are renting your professional knowledge/skills. You
are not renting your time. If you are an MBA renting your skills as a
trash evacuator, you are paid by the hour; if you are renting your
skills as a people-manager, then you are paid to execute the tasks of
your position. The former gets overtime, the latter does not, even if
it takes 24/7 to do the job.

Perhaps job descriptions are not clear enough. Recent definitions re
labor standards stratify the workforce by salary: Under $23,500,
madatory overtime; over $65,000; no overtime unless contracted
otherwise; between, depends on the contract.

I won't bore anyone with my personal reasons. I am a physician (MD in
practice), an MBA (consultant in practice), and an active database
programmer. For details about why I feel as I do, write me privately.
(In 35 years of medical practice, I have never received a cent for
being on call 24/7/365. On the toilet, during sex, at my parent's
funeral, nor any other time.)

Stan

"Richard" <pa*******@spamex.com> wrote in message

news:<eI6bc.9796$Ig.3374@pd7tw2no>...
My employer currently pays me $1/hour when I carry a pager. I have to
carry the pager every fourth week. The problem is that my employer
insists that I be available when I'm carrying the pager. So, for $1/hr
they expect me to remain within pager range, remain sober, and be
available to come to work. That really sucks on weekends. No going
to the beach (out of pager range) or out to a friend's cottage (out of pager range), etc. Declining to carry the pager is NOT an option.

I'm curious what compensation others get and more importantly, what's
your employers expectation of your availability when you're on-call?

Thanks.


Stan,
We can agree to disagree. It is unreasonable to be on call 7/24/365. For
people to function effectively they do need some "time off" ; if for no
other reason than to recharge the psychic batteries. Sure, if one is a
sales person on pure commission then I suppose that there is no reason for
getting paid for working 7/24/365. But some employers will abuse the
situation and by if nothing else it helps to recognize the beyond regular
hours effort. Sure if someone calls me after hours to ask a question I do
my best to help and don't expect additional compensation. But if all of a
sudden it became a regular thing and consistently required more work then
one must set boundaries. (where I work no system that I work on is medically
necessary - no one is hurt or injured if someone has to wait a little bit.)
In short, my employer hired me for about a 40 hour work week and not an 80+
hour work week consistently. If they want the 80+ then it has to be spelled
out in the employment agreement at hire not "slipped in"; then I can decide
if I want to take the job or not.

Also if the additional compensation is tied to whether I do something or
not - a two tier system - then it behooves management to make sure systems
are properly maintained so they are not paying higher after hours maintained
due to lack of regular scheduled main. (which may occur after hours and
would not be compensated for)

Jim
Jul 19 '05 #31

P: n/a
Stanley Sinclair wrote:
This thread overwhelms me. People seem to be asking the wrong
question.
That all depends on perspective, I suppose. I think the original
post was really actually asking about pagers, although you bring up a
not-entirely-orthogonal philospohical question.
The question is, "Are you a professional or not?"
I highly suspect that even this is not the question you want to ask.
This question highly depends on culture. What is "professional" to you
in a highly-competitive highly-capitalist country may not be the same
in more socialist countries.
If yes, then you are renting your professional knowledge/skills. You
are not renting your time. If you are an MBA renting your skills as a
Whether renting knowledge/skills or time probably depends on your
contract. Which was the OP's question - according to various
employee's contracts, how much is that individual being paid to carry a
pager.
trash evacuator, you are paid by the hour; if you are renting your
skills as a people-manager, then you are paid to execute the tasks of
your position. The former gets overtime, the latter does not, even if
it takes 24/7 to do the job. Perhaps job descriptions are not clear enough. Recent definitions re
labor standards stratify the workforce by salary: Under $23,500,
madatory overtime; over $65,000; no overtime unless contracted
otherwise; between, depends on the contract.
Sounds like the difference is < $23,500 and > $23,500, since you said
"depends on contract" for both $23,500-$65,000 and $65,001+. That
leaves a lot of room for discussion and negotiation with your employer.

Funny thing is, it's entirely a capitalist ideal for an employee (the
"seller" of knowledge/skills) to negotiate for the best rate for his or
her knowledge/skills that they can, and that can include bonus money
for working outside of negotiated hours, carrying a pager, etc.. And
then, some employers will simply offer that extra money as an incentive
to get the most qualified applicants to apply for their positions
(called "putting to tender" in some circles).

You've made quite a distinction by using the word "renting" instead of
simply "using". You seem to be implying a very capitalist outlook on
the world, and that's quite fine by me. I like to think of myself as
capitalist as well. But, in the same way that you probably think
highly of entrepreneurs who beat out their competition by offering the
best bang for a buck, or for their customers who pay premiums for
better service, you should look at the employer/employee relationship
and think highly of employees who manage to get extra perks, pay,
benefits, etc., as premiums that they have negotiated for. I see no
difference.
I won't bore anyone with my personal reasons. I am a physician (MD in
practice), an MBA (consultant in practice), and an active database
programmer. For details about why I feel as I do, write me privately.
(In 35 years of medical practice, I have never received a cent for
being on call 24/7/365. On the toilet, during sex, at my parent's
funeral, nor any other time.)


You need to hire a better negotiator. ;-) You're probably
self-employed, so you've got some limitations on what you can do.
Otherwise, principles about what should be enacted by law (is it
legally mandatory to pay someone to carry a pager?), if you believe
strongly that it shouldn't be legally required, should have absolutely
no bearing on what people manage to negotiate with their employers.
Jul 19 '05 #32

P: n/a
Indeed, Jim we can agree to disagree. However, in reading your
response, we have agreed completely!

<<It is unreasonable to be on call 7/24/365. For people to function
effectively they do need some "time off". . . >>

Yes. But it is the responsibilty of the Professional to find another
equally skilled Professional to cover him/her for the time off.

In reading the rest of your response, you agree completely that
everything depends on accurate disclosure and inclusion of all details
in an employment contract.

This is as much the responsibilty of the employee as the employer.

(And what about the self-employed?)

Stan
Jul 19 '05 #33

P: n/a
No doubts, it is the responsibility of the employee as the employer ..
Many times, the contracts are in such a manner that an employee may
not fully understand the implications ... In my previous job, in the
interview I was told that I'll be on-call(no compensation) in a rota
.... There were six people, so my cover was once in six weeks ... In a
few months time, just two of us were expected to do the job of all 6
(4 laid off on the same day) ... So lots of work during the day and
on-call once in two weeks ... When we requested for a compensation we
were bluntly told 'No such thing in your contract!!' ... I left the
job next month ..

A self-employed has to take professsional advice before signing
contracts, to avoid traps
Cheers
victor


st*************@bellsouth.net (Stanley Sinclair) wrote in message news:<6f**************************@posting.google. com>...
Indeed, Jim we can agree to disagree. However, in reading your
response, we have agreed completely!

<<It is unreasonable to be on call 7/24/365. For people to function
effectively they do need some "time off". . . >>

Yes. But it is the responsibilty of the Professional to find another
equally skilled Professional to cover him/her for the time off.

In reading the rest of your response, you agree completely that
everything depends on accurate disclosure and inclusion of all details
in an employment contract.

This is as much the responsibilty of the employee as the employer.

(And what about the self-employed?)

Stan

Jul 19 '05 #34

P: n/a
Glen A Stromquist <glen_stromquist@no_spam_yahoo.com> writes:
Richard wrote:
My employer currently pays me $1/hour when I carry a pager. I have
to carry the pager every fourth week. The problem is that my
employer insists that I be available when I'm carrying the pager.
So, for $1/hr they expect me to remain within pager range, remain
sober, and be available to come to work. That really sucks on
weekends. No going to the beach (out of pager range) or out to a
friend's cottage (out of pager range), etc. Declining to carry the
pager is NOT an option. I'm curious what compensation others get
and more importantly, what's your employers expectation of your
availability when you're on-call? Thanks.

I carry a pager and a cell, and get squat for it, its a condition of
employment. We take turns being on call for weekends, but basically
we all are anyway, the on-call person will just contact me if the
problem is db related anyway, same goes for our network guys, as400
guys etc. I do a lot of after hours monitoring & work on my own
anyway, in turn I get a lot of flexibility, if I want to leave early
to watch one of my kids school event I go, no questions asked. As
long as everything runs and runs smoothly things are ok. Works for
me anyway...


That sort of thing is tenable for "departmental" systems; it's much
less so for truly 24x7 systems that need to be monitored all the time.

We have some of the latter variety; the arrangement is $20/day, with
(1 + some percentage) of hourly rate additional compensation when
calls come in, with a minimum time period that gets billed.

If I never get called, I'll get $140 for a week on call. If I get
paged in the night, I'm sure to get an hour or two of compensation.

This arrangement feels reasonably fair.

There may be situations where employers feel they have their employees
"over the barrel" and can demand off-hours services at no charge.
That can, of course, be the justification for almost any sort of
unkindness.
--
output = reverse("gro.mca" "@" "enworbbc")
http://cbbrowne.com/info/sgml.html
Real Programmers are surprised when the odometers in their cars don't
turn from 99999 to A0000.
Jul 19 '05 #35

P: n/a
st*************@bellsouth.net (Stanley Sinclair) writes:
I won't bore anyone with my personal reasons. I am a physician (MD
in practice), an MBA (consultant in practice), and an active
database programmer. For details about why I feel as I do, write me
privately. (In 35 years of medical practice, I have never received
a cent for being on call 24/7/365. On the toilet, during sex, at my
parent's funeral, nor any other time.)


Ah, but do you not charge fees when called to do a procedure at those
odd hours, then?

It is usual, as far as I can tell, for doctors to indeed bill for
procedures done when they get called, whether that be during "normal
business hours" or after-hours. I once got a chunk of chicken stuck
in my throat, needing intervention of an ENT late at night; while I
did not see the bill, I can only assume that he got paid for doing the
procedure.

It does not strike me as "unprofessional" to imagine that one might
get compensated for such things. A company that expects its employees
to provide quality service can certainly be expected to pay for that.

In markets where employers can see many unemployed would-be staff
members, they can certainly choose to pay people less (irrespective of
reason). If they consider their staff to be valuable to them, then
compensating their staff in a manner that is regarded as "fair" is not
merely fair, but needful.

In particular, if there is the ability to choose whether or not to be
part of an "on-call" group, then for there to be "fairness," there
needs to be some difference in the handling of compensation for those
that choose this way or that. THAT is "only professional."
--
"cbbrowne","@","cbbrowne.com"
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linuxxian.html
Always remember that you're unique, just like everyone else.
Jul 19 '05 #36

P: n/a
Chris,

The subject of the thread has been "What's your compensation for
*carrying* a pager???" Of course I charge for "physical" procedures I
do.

But I don't charge (as lawyers do) for the dozen weekend calls, "I
forgot to refill my meds on Friday. The prescription is expired. I
need you to call the pharmacy and OK it." (A call like that typically
takes 15 minutes to handle, and costs me $1.25 for the answering
service, + whatever I pay for the cell phone, + the danger of taking
the call on the highway, + being called away from normal life + cost
of office staff pulling chart and entering on Monday AM + ...)

Nor do I charge (as lawyers do) for the 3 AM calls, "I can't sleep --
do something." That takes three minutes to handle (!@$*!) and one
hour to get back to sleep.

Let's see, lawyers get $250/hr (more on weekends) plus expenses.
Should YOU need to have your prescription refilled on a Sunday, how
would you feel about the bill for $80 (not covered by insurance)?

Stan
Christopher Browne <cb******@acm.org> wrote in message news:<60************@dev6.int.libertyrms.info>...
st*************@bellsouth.net (Stanley Sinclair) writes:
I won't bore anyone with my personal reasons. I am a physician (MD
in practice), an MBA (consultant in practice), and an active
database programmer. For details about why I feel as I do, write me
privately. (In 35 years of medical practice, I have never received
a cent for being on call 24/7/365. On the toilet, during sex, at my
parent's funeral, nor any other time.)


Ah, but do you not charge fees when called to do a procedure at those
odd hours, then?

It is usual, as far as I can tell, for doctors to indeed bill for
procedures done when they get called, whether that be during "normal
business hours" or after-hours. I once got a chunk of chicken stuck
in my throat, needing intervention of an ENT late at night; while I
did not see the bill, I can only assume that he got paid for doing the
procedure.

It does not strike me as "unprofessional" to imagine that one might
get compensated for such things. A company that expects its employees
to provide quality service can certainly be expected to pay for that.

In markets where employers can see many unemployed would-be staff
members, they can certainly choose to pay people less (irrespective of
reason). If they consider their staff to be valuable to them, then
compensating their staff in a manner that is regarded as "fair" is not
merely fair, but needful.

In particular, if there is the ability to choose whether or not to be
part of an "on-call" group, then for there to be "fairness," there
needs to be some difference in the handling of compensation for those
that choose this way or that. THAT is "only professional."

Jul 19 '05 #37

This discussion thread is closed

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