Does Oracle + VB is a good combination

[vincent delft]

Hello,

I must set-up an application with an Oracle Database running on Unix and a
GUI running on Windows 2000/XP machines.
The size of the DB is about 5GB.
The application will have about 1000 users and about 200 concurrent users
connected via a WAN.

My management propose the combination Oracle - ODBC - Visual Basic.

Does this will be stable and reliable enough ?
Must I propose an another architectur ? (PowerBuilder ?, Java ?, ...)
Does web based application can be cheaper (to build and maintain) than VB ?

Thanks for your feedbacks.

[Hans Forbrich]

Comments inline:

vincent delft wrote:

Hello,

I must set-up an application with an Oracle Database running on Unix and a
GUI running on Windows 2000/XP machines.
Good enough so far
The size of the DB is about 5GB.
Not an issue, other than you will probably get lazy about doing proper
design and administration. Five GB is a small corner of one disk these
days.
The application will have about 1000 users and about 200 concurrent users
connected via a WAN.
Now you are taking about an interesting, but not terribly significant,
load for a small server.

My management propose the combination Oracle - ODBC - Visual Basic.

This sounds like the last time management woke up was somewhere in the
late 1990's

Who will pay for installing the software on 1000 desktops? Who will
manage the software for 1000 desktops? With a web deployment, there is
nothing to install at the client's machine. Much, much less expensive
over 2-3 years!

ODBC has a tradition of being slower than direct connect and using only
common features - you are probably paying for database power that you
simply will not be able to use.
Does this will be stable and reliable enough ?
From the network back through to, and including the database, yes.

I haven't had good luck with big VB projects in a networked environment,
but that's usually a function of the developers not knowing how to code
something more robust than prototype.

By default, each VB project [used to] install it's own core DLLs (and
many commercial products are VB), and there was nothing that guaranteed
the DLLs being installed were compatible with your project. 90% of all
my Windows instability issues can be traced to DLL 'upgrades'.
Must I propose an another architectur ? (PowerBuilder ?, Java ?, ...)
Why not propose Oracle's web architecture? Or just plain HTML? Or
maybe Oracle's Portal? Getting everything from one vendor means you can
usually solve bug issues instead of having the vendors fighting about
who is responsible.
Does web based application can be cheaper (to build and maintain) than VB ?

In general, yes. Especially when you include code that does proper
error checking and exception handling, and when you include the cost to
roll-out production initially and the cost to roll-out bug-fixes and
upgrades.

Using VB however, the initial prototype is very cheap.
Thanks for your feedbacks.

--
/Hans
[mailto:`echo $from" | sed "s/yahoo/telusplanet/g"`]

[Jim Kennedy]

"vincent delft" <vi***********@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3f***********************@reader1.news.skynet .be...

Hello,

I must set-up an application with an Oracle Database running on Unix and a
GUI running on Windows 2000/XP machines.
The size of the DB is about 5GB.
The application will have about 1000 users and about 200 concurrent users
connected via a WAN.

My management propose the combination Oracle - ODBC - Visual Basic.

Does this will be stable and reliable enough ?
Must I propose an another architectur ? (PowerBuilder ?, Java ?, ...)
Does web based application can be cheaper (to build and maintain) than VB ?
Thanks for your feedbacks.

If you have to go with VB I would use Oracle's Ole Objects. Fast, easy to
use bind variables, easy to code, supports all the native types.
Jim

[vincent delft]

Thanks Jim,

Does your OLE experience shows you that this must be reliable enough
for 200 concurrent users connected via a WAN ?

Other options would be to install the VB part on a Citrix. Does this
is possible with OLE?
"Jim Kennedy" <kennedy-down_with_spammers@no_spam.comcast.net> wrote in message news:<ZH1jb.769048$YN5.751574@sccrnsc01>...

"vincent delft" <vi***********@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3f***********************@reader1.news.skynet .be...

Hello,

I must set-up an application with an Oracle Database running on Unix and a
GUI running on Windows 2000/XP machines.
The size of the DB is about 5GB.
The application will have about 1000 users and about 200 concurrent users
connected via a WAN.

My management propose the combination Oracle - ODBC - Visual Basic.

Does this will be stable and reliable enough ?
Must I propose an another architectur ? (PowerBuilder ?, Java ?, ...)
Does web based application can be cheaper (to build and maintain) than VB

?

Thanks for your feedbacks.

If you have to go with VB I would use Oracle's Ole Objects. Fast, easy to
use bind variables, easy to code, supports all the native types.
Jim

[Clifford Buetikofer]

vincent delft wrote:

Thanks Jim,

Does your OLE experience shows you that this must be reliable enough
for 200 concurrent users connected via a WAN ?

Other options would be to install the VB part on a Citrix. Does this
is possible with OLE?
"Jim Kennedy" <kennedy-down_with_spammers@no_spam.comcast.net> wrote in message news:<ZH1jb.769048$YN5.751574@sccrnsc01>...

"vincent delft" <vi***********@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3f***********************@reader1.news.skyn et.be...

Hello,

I must set-up an application with an Oracle Database running on Unix and a
GUI running on Windows 2000/XP machines.
The size of the DB is about 5GB.
The application will have about 1000 users and about 200 concurrent users
connected via a WAN.

My management propose the combination Oracle - ODBC - Visual Basic.

Does this will be stable and reliable enough ?
Must I propose an another architectur ? (PowerBuilder ?, Java ?, ...)
Does web based application can be cheaper (to build and maintain) than VB

?

Thanks for your feedbacks.

If you have to go with VB I would use Oracle's Ole Objects. Fast, easy to
use bind variables, easy to code, supports all the native types.
Jim

Vincent,

VB-Oracle can be very stable but like previous posters mentioned, you
need a very tightly managed desktop. We have VB-Oracle apps running
supporting 3500 users and the desktop is managed by SMS for a "standard"
client and to auto-push deployments. If you don't have a tool, it'll be
difficult to do deployments and DLL management.

Regarding using Citrix, the network footprint is about 24k per user so
you need to make sure you have the bandwidth. Also, latency values can
kill you if they're over 100ms. A GUI-driven app with bad latency will
drive your users absolutely crazy or else they learn the accelerator
keys REAL quick.

Cliff

[Jim Kennedy]

It is as reliable as anything else over a WAN. (certainly better than odbc)
You can put it on Citrix and it works just fine there. I have that very set
up on a Citrix farm.
Jim
"vincent delft" <vi***********@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5c*************************@posting.google.co m...

Thanks Jim,

Does your OLE experience shows you that this must be reliable enough
for 200 concurrent users connected via a WAN ?

Other options would be to install the VB part on a Citrix. Does this
is possible with OLE?
"Jim Kennedy" <kennedy-down_with_spammers@no_spam.comcast.net> wrote in

message news:<ZH1jb.769048$YN5.751574@sccrnsc01>...

"vincent delft" <vi***********@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3f***********************@reader1.news.skynet .be...

Hello,

I must set-up an application with an Oracle Database running on Unix and a GUI running on Windows 2000/XP machines.
The size of the DB is about 5GB.
The application will have about 1000 users and about 200 concurrent users connected via a WAN.

My management propose the combination Oracle - ODBC - Visual Basic.

Does this will be stable and reliable enough ?
Must I propose an another architectur ? (PowerBuilder ?, Java ?, ...)
Does web based application can be cheaper (to build and maintain) than

VB ?

Thanks for your feedbacks.

If you have to go with VB I would use Oracle's Ole Objects. Fast, easy to use bind variables, easy to code, supports all the native types.
Jim

[vincent delft]

Clifford Buetikofer <rc**********@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<Oc********************@comcast.com>...

vincent delft wrote:
Vincent,

VB-Oracle can be very stable but like previous posters mentioned, you
need a very tightly managed desktop. We have VB-Oracle apps running
supporting 3500 users and the desktop is managed by SMS for a "standard"
client and to auto-push deployments. If you don't have a tool, it'll be
difficult to do deployments and DLL management.
Indeed, but this application is not the first one. And the compny have
tools to push software (tey use SMS). If package management for VB +
oracle applications is the only weakness point, I think that the
company have the correct tools and team memeber to do that correctly.

But for you 3500 users, how do you connect the VB application with the
Oracle (on Unix ?) DB ? Have you several DB in Parallel ? Have you got
performances problems ? (if yes how did you solve them ?)


Regarding using Citrix, the network footprint is about 24k per user so
you need to make sure you have the bandwidth. Also, latency values can
kill you if they're over 100ms. A GUI-driven app with bad latency will
drive your users absolutely crazy or else they learn the accelerator
keys REAL quick.

Cliff

OK. Thanks for this very relevant remark.

[Clifford Buetikofer]

vincent delft wrote:

Clifford Buetikofer <rc**********@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<Oc********************@comcast.com>...

vincent delft wrote:
Vincent,

VB-Oracle can be very stable but like previous posters mentioned, you
need a very tightly managed desktop. We have VB-Oracle apps running
supporting 3500 users and the desktop is managed by SMS for a "standard"
client and to auto-push deployments. If you don't have a tool, it'll be
difficult to do deployments and DLL management.

Indeed, but this application is not the first one. And the compny have
tools to push software (tey use SMS). If package management for VB +
oracle applications is the only weakness point, I think that the
company have the correct tools and team memeber to do that correctly.

But for you 3500 users, how do you connect the VB application with the
Oracle (on Unix ?) DB ? Have you several DB in Parallel ? Have you got
performances problems ? (if yes how did you solve them ?)

Regarding using Citrix, the network footprint is about 24k per user so
you need to make sure you have the bandwidth. Also, latency values can
kill you if they're over 100ms. A GUI-driven app with bad latency will
drive your users absolutely crazy or else they learn the accelerator
keys REAL quick.

Cliff

OK. Thanks for this very relevant remark.

No databases in Parallel. It's just one large instance on a large 16
cpu server. It's an OLTP application and so the SQL is tuned for those
operations using materialized views and hints; plus lots of indexing.

Performance problems usually result from ad-hoc queries. Those are
spooled up and run in the background so as not to affect OLTP performance.

Connections are done through ODBC.

Cliff