Alternative to cocoon?

[Jeremy]

My requirements are very simple: When a user browses to an XML document,
the server should parse the document, apply its stylesheet, and spit the
HTML at the client. Apache Cocoon is a slow, bloated mess that is
impossible to configure and it is just not right at all for this purpose. I
have no interest whatsoever in servlets, all I need is easy-to-configure
server-side XSL transformation. Has anyone come up with an apache module
that does this without having to do tomcat and cocoon and sitemaps and all
that jazz?

Thanks,
-Jeremy

[Alexander Schatten]

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:22:29 +0000, Jeremy wrote:

My requirements are very simple: When a user browses to an XML document,
the server should parse the document, apply its stylesheet, and spit the
HTML at the client. Apache Cocoon is a slow, bloated mess that is
impossible to configure and it is just not right at all for this purpose.

I am sorry, just this sentence makes clear, that you have

(1) no idea about Cocoon

(2) did not try versions after 1.8
as a matter of fact: Cocoon is extremyl powerful, stable and flexible.
there are companies, that use Cocoon *because of performacne
considerations*; as Cocoon proved to be faster then other server tools.

moreover, you have various options to speed up Cocoon applications using
fine grained caching strategies, as an example.

additionally it has a vivid community with good support in the mailing
list for users as well as for developers. it is probably one of the
best Apache projects.

So I really would like you to really evaluate a project before you write
dubious stuff like to one cited above.
Alex

[Jeremy]

Fair enough - I apologize for bashing cocoon. I'm sure it's an excellent
solution for more advanced needs, but for my needs it is just plain
overkill. I don't think that whether or not there is a less flexible
solution is an unreasonable question - I phrased it like a jerk because I
was getting frustrated with trying to configure cocoon.

After I posted, a friend pointed me to mod_xslt which is pretty much exactly
what I need. Thanks for the reply.
"Alexander Schatten" <al****@gmx.at> wrote in message
news:pa****************************@gmx.at...

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:22:29 +0000, Jeremy wrote:

My requirements are very simple: When a user browses to an XML document, the server should parse the document, apply its stylesheet, and spit the
HTML at the client. Apache Cocoon is a slow, bloated mess that is
impossible to configure and it is just not right at all for this

purpose.
I am sorry, just this sentence makes clear, that you have

(1) no idea about Cocoon

(2) did not try versions after 1.8
as a matter of fact: Cocoon is extremyl powerful, stable and flexible.
there are companies, that use Cocoon *because of performacne
considerations*; as Cocoon proved to be faster then other server tools.

moreover, you have various options to speed up Cocoon applications using
fine grained caching strategies, as an example.

additionally it has a vivid community with good support in the mailing
list for users as well as for developers. it is probably one of the
best Apache projects.

So I really would like you to really evaluate a project before you write
dubious stuff like to one cited above.
Alex

[Hannes Gassert]

Jeremy wrote on Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:22:29 +0000:

I have no interest whatsoever in servlets, all I need is
easy-to-configure server-side XSL transformation. Has anyone come up
with an apache module that does this without having to do tomcat and
cocoon and sitemaps and all that jazz?

Searching for XSL on
modules.apache.org yields several
results, e.g. http://modules.apache.org/search?id=334. I haven't tried any
of those.
What I did try indeed is Popoon[1]. As you might have guessed, Popoon is
[an approximation to] a Cocoon port to PHP. It's lighter, smaller and you
have it running in no time, modifications can be made very quickly - PHP
is so simple. Due to sophisticated caching mechanisms it performs quite
well, too. Perhaps you might wan't to have a look at that?

Best regards,
Hannes Gassert
[1] http://bitflux.ch/developer/cms/popoon.html
--
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tel [phone] // key id 0x9EA04604 // www.mediagonal.ch

[Alexander Schatten]

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 23:15:57 +0000, Jeremy wrote:

Fair enough - I apologize for bashing cocoon. I'm sure it's an excellent
solution for more advanced needs, but for my needs it is just plain
overkill. I don't think that whether or not there is a less flexible
solution is an unreasonable question - I phrased it like a jerk because I
was getting frustrated with trying to configure cocoon.

well meanwhile I suggest Cocoon also for "small" problems. the reason is,
that it is extremly simple to configure:

(1) install a JDK

(2) download Cocoon, build it by starting one batch file and start it

thats it
with the outomount feature even generation of new subprojects became very
easy.
Alex

[Kermit T Tensmeyer]

"Jeremy" <je*****@uci.edu> wrote in message
news:VvBkb.595888$cF.261050@rwcrnsc53...

My requirements are very simple: When a user browses to an XML document,
the server should parse the document, apply its stylesheet, and spit the
HTML at the client. Apache Cocoon is a slow, bloated mess that is
impossible to configure and it is just not right at all for this purpose. I have no interest whatsoever in servlets, all I need is easy-to-configure
server-side XSL transformation. Has anyone come up with an apache module
that does this without having to do tomcat and cocoon and sitemaps and all
that jazz?

try axkit.org instead of implementing in java/tomcat use perl/modperl
instead.

[Nick Kew]

In article <pa****************************@gmx.at>, one of infinite monkeys
at the keyboard of "Alexander Schatten" <al****@gmx.at> wrote:

as a matter of fact: Cocoon is extremyl powerful, stable and flexible.
there are companies, that use Cocoon *because of performacne
considerations*; as Cocoon proved to be faster then other server tools.
Erm - what other server tools?

The context of the question was XSLT processing, and I have indeed
encountered one monumentally slow XSLT module[1]. I guess if you compare
to that, then cocoon or anything else comes out as much faster.
But if you take any implementation worth looking at from this (or last)
year you can expect a different result.
moreover, you have various options to speed up Cocoon applications using
fine grained caching strategies, as an example.
Likewise Apache 2 with a sensible XSLT filter.

Oh, and of course XSLT is just one application. If you want to suggest
another, that's fine: I expect I could implement a faster version of XYZ
with Apache 2, FWIW. That of course excepts jobs where "java" is part of
the requirements spec; maybe where a company is heavily locked-in or the
pointy-hairs can't grasp the difference between a tool and an outcome.
additionally it has a vivid community with good support in the mailing
list for users as well as for developers. it is probably one of the
best Apache projects.
httpd doesn't do too badly ...
So I really would like you to really evaluate a project before you write
dubious stuff like to one cited above.

Fair comment on the OP, but IMHO your post may be in danger of making a
similar mistake, praising a product by comparing it to unspecified and
perhaps inappropriate competition.

Hmmm ... I'd better shut up now; I'm probably falling straight into the
same rhetorical trap.

[1] it was based on Sablotron, and running the commandline "sabcmd" from
CGI was several hundred times faster.

--
Nick Kew

In urgent need of paying work - see http://www.webthing.com/~nick/cv.html