Re: THIS NEWSGROUP IS NOT FOR GENERAL WINDOWS QUESTIONS - IT'S FOR ".NET" PROGRAMMING QUESTIONS

[Cowboy \(Gregory A. Beamer\)]

Top posting is also considered bad netiquette.

--
Gregory A. Beamer
MVP, MCP: +I, SE, SD, DBA

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"Scott M." <s-***@nospam.nospamwrote in message
news:ed**************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>

[Scott M.]

Sorry about the future-post group. I've noticed a large increase in the

number of general Windows questions hitting this NG lateley and thought
I'd try a test to see if anyone actually reads it.

I've never future-posted before and won't again, but thought it might be
worth a shot to see if it helps at all. Those of you who know me, know I
follow NG netiquitte.

Again, sorry for the inconvenience.

-Scott

"Cowboy (Gregory A. Beamer)" <No************@comcast.netNoSpamMwrote in
message news:uf**************@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

Top posting is also considered bad netiquette.

--
Gregory A. Beamer
MVP, MCP: +I, SE, SD, DBA

Subscribe to my blog
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"Scott M." <s-***@nospam.nospamwrote in message
news:ed**************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>>

[Cor Ligthert [MVP]]

As Scott wrote in a message sent at the same (real time)

Not only read the Upper Case messages Gregory, in my idea are you already
old enough to read text in lower cases.

(The above sentence came in my mind when writing this, not violated ment, I
know better)

:-)

Cor

"Cowboy (Gregory A. Beamer)" <No************@comcast.netNoSpamMschreef in
bericht news:uf**************@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

Top posting is also considered bad netiquette.

--
Gregory A. Beamer
MVP, MCP: +I, SE, SD, DBA

Subscribe to my blog
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"Scott M." <s-***@nospam.nospamwrote in message
news:ed**************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>>

[Scott M.]

If by "top posting" you mean posting a reply at the top of the original
message, rather than below it, I think there has been enough debate to show
that there is hardly a concensous on whether that is bad netiquitte or not.

Future-posting (which I did and apologized for immediately knowing that it
was wrong) is bad netiquitte, but as I've written, I wanted to try a
one-time test to see if it could help stem the tide of incorrect postings to
this group.

This type of future post isn't necessarially the same thing as other future
posts as I'm not posting a question that I'm trying to get eveyone to
answer. The intention was to have it act as an entrance sign-post that
someone might see before they posted an irrelevent post.

-Scott

"Cowboy (Gregory A. Beamer)" <No************@comcast.netNoSpamMwrote in
message news:uf**************@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

Top posting is also considered bad netiquette.

--
Gregory A. Beamer
MVP, MCP: +I, SE, SD, DBA

Subscribe to my blog
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or just read it:
http://gregorybeamer.spaces.live.com/

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"Scott M." <s-***@nospam.nospamwrote in message
news:ed**************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>>

[Jeff Gaines]

On 05/08/2008 in message <#H**************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gblScott M.
wrote:

>If by "top posting" you mean posting a reply at the top of the original
message, rather than below it, I think there has been enough debate to
show that there is hardly a concensous on whether that is bad netiquitte
or not.

There is a clear consensus outside the MSFT groups. People who top post
have usually only been using Usenet since MSFT came (belatedly) on to the
Internet scene by providing non-standards compliant tools like OE and IE.
Those of us who were using Usenet long before that understand the rationale.

--
Jeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK
All those who believe in psychokinesis raise my hand.

[Scott M.]

Well, pardon my frankness, but your message screams of ellitism and is just
plain wrong.

MS came on to the Internet the same way evey other IT company came to the
Internet in those days (which by the way was about 15 years ago - hardly
recent).

The tools to which you refer don't really have anything to do with
netiquette, as they are a means of accessibility, and not responsible for
the content posted to the Usenet.

And since I am part of the "us" to which you refer (those using the Usenet
prior to IE and OE), I think my opinion counts just as much as yours.

My long history with newsgroups tells me that top-posting (posting a reply
above the message that is being replied to) is hated by some and not by
others. Some say that it makes a long thread more readable, as the messages
can be read in the sequence they were replied to. Others (myself included)
will say that you shouldn't have to scroll page after page just to see a
short response to a post.

Since, I'm sure you know that no one ever wins a flame war, I'll just sum up
my future-post and immediate explanation for doing so with the same response
I've already posted, which is to say that unlike most future-posts, mine was
not meant to force others to constantly see my message so I could get help.
It was a simple test to see if a sign-post at the entrance to this
particular NG would have any effect on irrelevant posts.

-Scott

"Jeff Gaines" <jg************@yahoo.co.ukwrote in message
news:xn****************@msnews.microsoft.com...

On 05/08/2008 in message <#H**************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gblScott M.
wrote:

>>If by "top posting" you mean posting a reply at the top of the original
message, rather than below it, I think there has been enough debate to
show that there is hardly a concensous on whether that is bad netiquitte
or not.

There is a clear consensus outside the MSFT groups. People who top post
have usually only been using Usenet since MSFT came (belatedly) on to the
Internet scene by providing non-standards compliant tools like OE and IE.
Those of us who were using Usenet long before that understand the
rationale.

--
Jeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK
All those who believe in psychokinesis raise my hand.

[Rory Becker]

Hello Scott M.,

unlike most future-posts, mine was not meant to force others to
constantly see my message so I could get help. It was a simple test to
see if a sign-post at the entrance to this particular NG would have
any effect on irrelevant posts.

I quite liked the idea. Just like a pinned message in a forum

Pretty responsible use of a technique for an intended good purpose that is
often used irresponsibly for a bad purpose.

No harm.. No Foul.

Indeed the intention was to improve the community and may have saved us from
having to answer a few irrelavent posts.

Although to some extent the thread(s) that have been spawned might counter
that. as I said the intention was to help..

You just can't please some people. :P

--
Rory

[Marc]

"Cowboy (Gregory A. Beamer)" <No************@comcast.netNoSpamMwrote in message news:uf**************@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

Top posting is also considered bad netiquette.

It's not 1998 mate - no one cares any more. I certainly don't.

[Marc]

"Scott M." <s-***@nospam.nospamwrote

Future-posting (which I did and apologized for immediately knowing that it
was wrong) is bad netiquitte, but as I've written, I wanted to try a
one-time test to see if it could help stem the tide of incorrect postings
to this group.

Hence here it makes sense to do the future post, and at least it seemed to
help a little. I think you've done right Scott.

[darrel]

There is a clear consensus outside the MSFT groups.

Actually, no, there isn't.

There's a history of top-posting being bad netiquette, but I've noticed as
of late I've been in discussions where admins specifically encourage that
you don't trim replies and top-post everything.

I find it annoying, but hey, when in rome...

-Darrel

[Jeff Gaines]

On 08/08/2008 in message <uS**************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbldarrel
wrote:

>

>>There is a clear consensus outside the MSFT groups.

Actually, no, there isn't.

That's not my experience, of the 24 groups I subscribe to it's only the
MSFT groups where top posting is tolerated. They do tend to be technical
groups if that makes a difference.

>There's a history of top-posting being bad netiquette, but I've noticed as
of late I've been in discussions where admins specifically encourage that
you don't trim replies and top-post everything.

I don't subscribe to any moderated news groups so have no experience of
that. The couple of mail lists I subscribe to enforce the original Usenet
etiquette ruthlessly though.

>I find it annoying, but hey, when in rome...

I still believe it's caused by the common use of OE, especially by people
who didn't use a news reader before OE appeared - which must have been 5
years or so after I started using Usenet. Agent was the front runner when
I started and I stuck with it for many years, I still believe that
technically it's miles ahead of anything else.

--
Jeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK
If it's not broken, mess around with it until it is

[Cor Ligthert[MVP]]

Jeff,

Is what you called the newsgroup etiquete in this case not simple the
behaviour of netscape newsreaders and some other newsreader?

I know more examples of etiquete which are based on favoriting its own
behavniour as how it should happen.

However, there is luckely in in the the USA and the South Afrika not any
etiquette anymore that blacks should sit in the back of a bus.

Just my thought about this kinds of etiquette.

Cor

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

Cor Ligthert[MVP] <no************@planet.nlwrote:

Is what you called the newsgroup etiquete in this case not simple the
behaviour of netscape newsreaders and some other newsreader?

Pretty much every newsreader before Outlook Express, I suspect. It was
made the default behaviour of the software because it was observed that
interspersed posting (with appropriate snipping) leads to a richer
interaction, enabling point-by-point discussion and a simpler
chronology of what's been stated. (Appropriate snipping is also more
efficient in terms of bandwidth too - although that was a much bigger
deal in the past than it is now, where many thousands of posts can be
transmitted in the same amount of data as a single video.)

Reading a top-posted thread with many posts in is like watching
Memento, but without the entertainment value.

For *simple* one-on-one email discussions top-posting is entirely
reasonable, but on groups with potentially thousands of readers, I
personally believe that interspersed posting is a better way to provide
the context to the reader. (Even in email if I want to reply to two
points separately I usually go back to the interspersed style.)

I know more examples of etiquete which are based on favoriting its own
behavniour as how it should happen.

However, there is luckely in in the the USA and the South Afrika not any
etiquette anymore that blacks should sit in the back of a bus.

Just my thought about this kinds of etiquette.

That's a completely inappropriate comparison in my opinion. This isn't
a practice born out of prejudice or wanting to hold on to power - it's
a practice born out of wanting to communicate effectively.

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
Web site: http://www.pobox.com/~skeet
Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
C# in Depth: http://csharpindepth.com

[Jeff Gaines]

On 09/08/2008 in message
<6C**********************************@microsoft.co mCor Ligthert[MVP]
wrote:

>However, there is luckely in in the the USA and the South Afrika not any
etiquette anymore that blacks should sit in the back of a bus.

Cor

That is such a profound statement that I can think of nothing further to
say...

P.S. Wherever those black people sit in the bus, and whether they read
their newspaper from right to left or left to right, they surely will read
it top to bottom :-)

--
Jeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK
640k ought to be enough for anyone.
(Bill Gates, 1981)

[SpotNet]

"Cor Ligthert[MVP]" <no************@planet.nlwrote in message
news:6C**********************************@microsof t.com...

Jeff,

Is what you called the newsgroup etiquete in this case not simple the behaviour
of netscape newsreaders and some other newsreader?

I know more examples of etiquete which are based on favoriting its own
behavniour as how it should happen.

However, there is luckely in in the the USA and the South Afrika not any
etiquette anymore that blacks should sit in the back of a bus.

Just my thought about this kinds of etiquette.

Cor

That is nothing to do with etiquette. Making an analogy between posting
messages\responses on a news server, and the treatment of people no different to
any person, other than wearing the brunt of paranoia (and fear), is appalling, not
'bad etiquette'.

America in it's history feared the Catholic, The American Indian, The Negro, The
Jew, The Islamic, and now The Newsgroup Poster. Lock and Load Cor here come The
Top Posters, The In Line Posters, The Bottom Posters, The Put the Entire Message
In The Subject Line Posters, The Spam Bombers, The English Not First Language
Posters, by then the U.N. may globalise you into civilisation.

- SpotNet