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Does Microsoft have XML patents?


I read somewhere that Microsoft has hundreds or even more than a
thousand patents which are related to XML.

Can someone confirm/deny this?

-RFH

Dec 24 '07 #1
15 1861
In article
<dc**********************************@e10g2000prf. googlegroups.com>,
Ramon F Herrera <ra***@conexus.netwrote:
I read somewhere that Microsoft has hundreds or even more than a
thousand patents which are related to XML.

Can someone confirm/deny this?
I'd be rather surprised if anyone here could confirm or deny that you
have read something! :-)

But seriously, I suppose it depends on what you mean by "related".
Doing a search at the PTO site for patents that have "Microsoft" in the
assignee name field and XML in the abstract, I come up with 99, but many
of those just happen to specify that they use XML to store something--do
those count as being related to XML?

Anyway, if you want to check those out yourself, and decide which are
related, go here:

<http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html>

then click on "Quick Search", and put Microsoft in term 1, XML in term
2, and change field 1 to assignee name and field 2 to abstract, and you
should get the list I got (well, after you hit "search" :-)).

A similar search, but looking for XML in the claims, returns 213
patents. Again, though, a lot comes down to what it means to be related
to XML. There was one there, for instance, that had to do with speech
processing for telephony. In the claims, XML shows up as part of a
dependent claim. Let me digress to explain a little bit about patent
claims. There are two kinds of claims: independent claims and dependent
claims. An independent claim looks like something like this:

5. A method for blah blah blah comprising the steps of yadda yadda
yadda.

It stands alone. A dependent claim looks something like this:

6. The method of claim 5 where the step of yadda is done by a Nun
lathered in baby oil.

A dependent claim narrows down the claim it depends on. (BTW, a
dependent claim can be dependent on an earlier dependent claim, so we
could have a further dependent claim:

7. The method of claim 6 where the Nun is a she-male.

and so on).

That's how XML comes up in this speech processing patent. They have a
claim. Then they narrow it in a dependent claim. Then that dependent
claim is further narrowed in another dependent claim, which involves a
loadable grammar. Then, THAT dependent claim is further narrowed to
"The method of claim 12 wherein the grammar is loaded from an XML file".

I don't think I'd count this patent as being related to XML.

I can't think of any good way to do a search to just get ones that are
actually about XML, although I'd guess that most of those would have XML
mentioned in the abstract, so that list of 99 is probably the place to
start looking.

--
--Tim Smith
Dec 24 '07 #2
As was said: Depends on what you mean by "related". There have
certainly been XML-related patents -- I've been involved in several
that IBM has filed, and expect to contribute to others -- but whether
any of them affect any particular XML application depend on the exact
details of that application, just as is true in any other field of
engineering where patents may exist.

Could you be more specific about what question you're really trying to
answer?
Dec 25 '07 #3
____/ Ramon F Herrera on Monday 24 December 2007 19:13 : \____
I read somewhere that Microsoft has hundreds or even more than a
thousand patents which are related to XML.

Can someone confirm/deny this?
Microsoft will deny this, but it's already confirmed that Microsoft's 'Open'
XML, for example, is a patent trap. See here:

http://boycottnovell.com/2007/12/15/...-windows-only/

Mind the bit art the top. I've collected many more examples.
--
~~ Best of wishes

Roy S. Schestowitz | "Black holes are where God is divided by zero"
http://Schestowitz.com | Open Prospects | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Tasks: 124 total, 1 running, 123 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
http://iuron.com - knowledge engine, not a search engine
Dec 25 '07 #4
In article <19*****************@schestowitz.com>,
Roy Schestowitz <ne********@schestowitz.comwrote:
Microsoft will deny this, but it's already confirmed that Microsoft's 'Open'
XML, for example, is a patent trap. See here:
No more so than ODF.
--
--Tim Smith
Dec 25 '07 #5
On Dec 24, 10:50 pm, keshlam-nos...@comcast.net wrote:
Could you be more specific about what question you're really trying to
answer?
My concern - and that of all programmers, is that I can write any
conceivable program in C, Java or C++, etc. without fear. (obvious
restrictions notwithstanding).

Should I be fearful when I (or my programs) generate XML code?

-Ramon

Dec 25 '07 #6
On Dec 25, 12:09 am, Tim Smith <reply_in_gr...@mouse-potato.com>
wrote:
In article <19983549.1cevY8o...@schestowitz.com>,
Roy Schestowitz <newsgro...@schestowitz.comwrote:
Microsoft will deny this, but it's already confirmed that Microsoft's 'Open'
XML, for example, is a patent trap. See here:
No more so than ODF.
I beg to differ, Tim. Are you saying that the source code of C# or
Visual J are as open and devoid of the fear factor as that of Java?

I don't have to delve into the relationship (please!) between the
above and my question, do I?

-RFH

Dec 25 '07 #7
In article
<bc**********************************@e4g2000hsg.g ooglegroups.com>,
Ramon F Herrera <ra***@conexus.netwrote:
On Dec 25, 12:09 am, Tim Smith <reply_in_gr...@mouse-potato.com>
wrote:
In article <19983549.1cevY8o...@schestowitz.com>,
Roy Schestowitz <newsgro...@schestowitz.comwrote:
Microsoft will deny this, but it's already confirmed that Microsoft's
'Open'
XML, for example, is a patent trap. See here:
No more so than ODF.

I beg to differ, Tim. Are you saying that the source code of C# or
Visual J are as open and devoid of the fear factor as that of Java?
No. I'm saying that Sun has patents that cover ODF, Microsoft has
patents that cover OOXML. Both of them have made those patents
available reasonably (but not in a way that makes the formats "open" by
the standards usually used for things to be "open") for those who want
to implement those formats, respectively. Roy decided to use your
initial question as an opportunity to post part of his stock list of
anti-OOXML FUD.

--
--Tim Smith
Dec 25 '07 #8
* ke************@comcast.net fired off this tart reply:
(I'm firmly of the opinion that any engineer ought to do at least one
full patent search as part of their education.)
That might kill his desire for an engineering career!

--
Tux rox!
Dec 25 '07 #9
In article <40****************@schestowitz.com>,
Roy Schestowitz <ne********@schestowitz.comwrote:
You're replying to a Microsoft agent/apologist. S/he won't tell you that IBM
Prove it.

--
--Tim Smith
Dec 25 '07 #10
>Should I be fearful when I (or my programs) generate XML code?

1) XML isn't code, it's a data markup convention.

2) MS has no ownership in XML itself.

3) MS (or someone else) might have patents applicable to specific uses
of XML, to the same extent that they might have patents applicable to
that applciation if its data was kept in some other representation.

In other words, XML shouldn't make you any more fearful than anything
else does. Or any less; your C/Java/C++ code might also infringe
someone's patent.

--
Joe Kesselman / Beware the fury of a patient man. -- John Dryden
Dec 27 '07 #11
On Dec 27, 2:10 pm, Joseph Kesselman <keshlam-nos...@comcast.net>
wrote:
Should I be fearful when I (or my programs) generate XML code?

1) XML isn't code, it's a data markup convention.
When I got one of my multiple Computer Science degrees I was told:

- All code is data
- All data is code

-RFH

Dec 27 '07 #12
On Dec 27, 3:57 pm, Ramon F Herrera <ra...@conexus.netwrote:
When I got one of my multiple Computer Science degrees I was told:
- All code is data
- All data is code
With all due respect: c/is/can be treated as/ and I'll accept that;
otherwise no.

But this is philosophy, and the question was about law, neither of
which has much connection with reality...
Dec 28 '07 #13
Joseph Kesselman <ke************@comcast.netwrites:
>>Should I be fearful when I (or my programs) generate XML code?

1) XML isn't code, it's a data markup convention.

2) MS has no ownership in XML itself.

3) MS (or someone else) might have patents applicable to specific uses
of XML, to the same extent that they might have patents applicable to
that applciation if its data was kept in some other representation.

In other words, XML shouldn't make you any more fearful than anything
else does. Or any less; your C/Java/C++ code might also infringe
someone's patent.
I think you should be more concerned with the XSLT.
Dec 30 '07 #14
Hadron wrote:
I think you should be more concerned with the XSLT.
Don't see why...

--
Joe Kesselman / Beware the fury of a patient man. -- John Dryden
Jan 2 '08 #15
____/ Joseph Kesselman on Wednesday 02 January 2008 14:19 : \____
Hadron wrote:
>I think you should be more concerned with the XSLT.

Don't see why...
Neither can 'Hadron'. He wanted to make a witty remark by mentioning an
acronym.

--
~~ Best of wishes

http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
run-level 2 2007-12-10 11:12 last=
http://iuron.com - help build a non-profit search engine
Jan 2 '08 #16

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