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VB or C#

I'm going to learn one of Framework based languages. I have a friend who
knows VB 2005 and he could help me with lessons. But I know from other
friends that C# is more popular and has higher demand.
My question - what to learn if I know in both VB and C# almost nothing.

Thank you

Esha
Sep 13 '06 #1
40 1799
Saying that C# is in more demand is a subjective statement, I disagree.

All .NET languages must follow a Common Language Specification (CLS) and
have roughly the same capabilitites. The actual language is a matter of
preference.

"esha" <es**@newsgroups.comwrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
I'm going to learn one of Framework based languages. I have a friend who
knows VB 2005 and he could help me with lessons. But I know from other
friends that C# is more popular and has higher demand.
My question - what to learn if I know in both VB and C# almost nothing.

Thank you

Esha

Sep 13 '06 #2
esha wrote:
I'm going to learn one of Framework based languages. I have a friend who
knows VB 2005 and he could help me with lessons. But I know from other
friends that C# is more popular and has higher demand.
My question - what to learn if I know in both VB and C# almost nothing.

Thank you

Esha

I'd say learn both. Start with vb since you'll be able to ask your
friend questions and get help.

Most articles and documentation provides examples in both. There are c#
to vb and vb to c# translators online.

If you know the framework, the language used doesn't matter so much.

--
David Hogue
Sep 13 '06 #3
"esha" <es**@newsgroups.comwrote
I'm going to learn one of Framework based languages. I have a friend who
knows VB 2005 and he could help me with lessons. But I know from other
friends that C# is more popular and has higher demand.
My question - what to learn if I know in both VB and C# almost nothing.
I think VB.NET is by far the easier of the two languages to learn.

I also think the C# is (in general) more valuable if you're looking to land
a programming job.

Given that most people program for money, I would go with C#.

Now, the two languages are largley the same in terms of features and
capabilities. There are a few things VB can do that C# can't, and a few
things that C# can do that VB can't. The list of these things is really
pretty small, and seldom comes up.

Either way, the majority of your learning time will be spent learning the 65
thousand classes that make up the .Net framework. This is the hard part -
there's alot there to learn, and it's gotta be learned. The particular
language syntax you use to call these 65k classes is largley irrelevant.
--
Chris Mullins
Sep 13 '06 #4
Esha,

I think that C# is far the easiest to learn, it has less keywords and less
extra standard namespaces so this helps you if you are learning from books
in a kind of theoretical way.

For a VB.Net programmer has C# however something not which is in VB.Net and
the VB.Net programmers find that extreme important, C# does not have
background compiling. This background compiling helps you to do autotyping,
correcting things and check everything while typing. For C# you have to
build/compile every time the project new, which is not the finest to do when
learning doing that practical coding.

That C# does not that background compiling can be an advantage for very
large projects on slow computers, before somebody wants to point me on that.

Cor

"esha" <es**@newsgroups.comschreef in bericht
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
I'm going to learn one of Framework based languages. I have a friend who
knows VB 2005 and he could help me with lessons. But I know from other
friends that C# is more popular and has higher demand.
My question - what to learn if I know in both VB and C# almost nothing.

Thank you

Esha

Sep 13 '06 #5
Hi Esha,

Both are equal as when learning either about 10% is language specific and
90% is framework. In the end you will find that it is easy to switch
between vb.net and C# since both share the (90%) framework part.
On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 02:27:20 +0200, esha <es**@newsgroups.comwrote:
I'm going to learn one of Framework based languages. I have a friend who
knows VB 2005 and he could help me with lessons. But I know from other
friends that C# is more popular and has higher demand.
My question - what to learn if I know in both VB and C# almost nothing.

Thank you

Esha



--
Happy Coding!
Morten Wennevik [C# MVP]
Sep 13 '06 #6
If you've never programmed before, start with C#, for several reasons.

While VB and C# perform almost the same operations, and while they each have
features that the other does not, which makes that sort of comparison a
wash, I see that you're just starting to learn programming, and that is why
I recommend starting with C#.

Why? VB is a more human-like programming language. Its syntax looks more
like human speech than any other major programming language. While this
makes it easy to learn, it also makes it easy to stop learning. And it makes
it harder to think "like the computer" when you're programming, which is
necessary to good programming.

In addition, the C# syntax is based on C and C++ syntax, but resembles very
closely Java, JavaScript, and EcmaScript, while the VB language does not
look much like any other syntax. This means that when you learn C# syntax,
you are that much closer to learning other common programming languages,
which is highly likely to come in handy, as seldom these days do programmers
have the luxury of programming every aspect of an application in a single
language, especially if working with the web.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Chicken Salad Surgery

What You Seek Is What You Get.

"esha" <es**@newsgroups.comwrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
I'm going to learn one of Framework based languages. I have a friend who
knows VB 2005 and he could help me with lessons. But I know from other
friends that C# is more popular and has higher demand.
My question - what to learn if I know in both VB and C# almost nothing.

Thank you

Esha

Sep 13 '06 #7

"esha" <es**@newsgroups.comwrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
I'm going to learn one of Framework based languages. I have a friend who knows
VB 2005 and he could help me with lessons. But I know from other friends that
C# is more popular and has higher demand.
My question - what to learn if I know in both VB and C# almost nothing.
Both are very similar languages but only C# has been released as an ECMA
standard. That means it has broader support, especially on non-Microsoft
operating systems. Something to consider.
Sep 13 '06 #8
Mike Lowery wrote:
"esha" <es**@newsgroups.comwrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
I'm going to learn one of Framework based languages. I have a friend who knows
VB 2005 and he could help me with lessons. But I know from other friends that
C# is more popular and has higher demand.
My question - what to learn if I know in both VB and C# almost nothing.

Both are very similar languages but only C# has been released as an ECMA
standard. That means it has broader support, especially on non-Microsoft
operating systems. Something to consider.
A corrollary to this is that since VB is not an ECMA standard,
Microsoft can change it dramatically at their own whims. It is much
harder for them to do this for C#.

But as other poster have said, learn both. It's not that much extra
effort and being able to code in both will look better on a resume than
just one.

Sep 13 '06 #9
Kevin,
>
Why? VB is a more human-like programming language. Its syntax looks more
like human speech than any other major programming language. While this
makes it easy to learn, it also makes it easy to stop learning. And it
makes it harder to think "like the computer" when you're programming,
which is necessary to good programming.
A little bit beside the truth, the probably still most used language for
common busines oriented language and measured in lifetime done (which is not
VB) is still more like "English" human speach than any other one.

It is absolute not needed to think like a computer, it is good to learn how
processes are done. That has nothing to do with a computer, which design
should be made on human processes.

Just my opinion (however not mine alone)

Cor
Sep 13 '06 #10
Mike,
>That means it has broader support, especially on non-Microsoft operating
systems. Something to consider.
Interesting can you explain this a little bit deeper, it is a interesting
subject I never have heard before about or stated with facts.

So maybe can you fullfil that gab?.

Cor
Sep 13 '06 #11

"Chris Dunaway" <du******@gmail.comwrote in message
news:11*********************@i3g2000cwc.googlegrou ps.com...
Mike Lowery wrote:
>"esha" <es**@newsgroups.comwrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
I'm going to learn one of Framework based languages. I have a friend who
knows
VB 2005 and he could help me with lessons. But I know from other friends
that
C# is more popular and has higher demand.
My question - what to learn if I know in both VB and C# almost nothing.

Both are very similar languages but only C# has been released as an ECMA
standard. That means it has broader support, especially on non-Microsoft
operating systems. Something to consider.

A corrollary to this is that since VB is not an ECMA standard,
Microsoft can change it dramatically at their own whims. It is much
harder for them to do this for C#.
Not as if standards have ever stopped Microsoft from implementing their own
proprietary solutions/additions! Hopefully since they authored this one they'll
stick with it (no guarantee.)


Sep 13 '06 #12

"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <no************@planet.nlwrote in message
news:eg**************@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
Mike,
>>That means it has broader support, especially on non-Microsoft operating
systems. Something to consider.

Interesting can you explain this a little bit deeper, it is a interesting
subject I never have heard before about or stated with facts.

So maybe can you fullfil that gab?.
Fact is projects like Mono do not (yet) fully support the VB language, but C# is
fully supported. One proposed reason is that VB hasn't been released as a
standard. The open source community rarely supports proprietary, non-standard
solutions.

C# standard:
http://www.ecma-international.org/pu...s/Ecma-334.htm

A related discussion about standardizing VB:
http://www.panopticoncentral.net/arc.../30/10911.aspx

Microsoft is about the only major software company that has continued to support
BASIC from past to present. BASIC also has the dogma of still being a
beginner's programming language with severe limitations and poor performance.
Although that was true 10+ years ago, I don't believe it to be true today. But
you only get one chance at a first impression.

Open source is entangled in .Net:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/06/...PENT2006-09-12


Sep 13 '06 #13
Mike,

Do you mean that this sentence:
>That means it has broader support, especially on non-Microsoft operating
systems. Something to consider.
Completely build on the Mono project and some personal opinions, because of
this sentence above I would have expected more.

You are right in that, that VB has a quicker evolution path than C# and
therefore probably Mono can not keep in line with that, but I think that
this tells more about what ECMA means as registration, like registration at
a non computer company has for ever meaned, it is no benefit. We have seen
that with more languages who don't exist anymore. Basic has a very long
lifeline you know (AFAIK after Cobol the longest) for a program language.

Before you misunderstood me, I find both VB.Net and C# very fine programming
languages.

Just my thought,

Cor

"Mike Lowery" <se******@mouse-potato.comschreef in bericht
news:%2******************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <no************@planet.nlwrote in message
news:eg**************@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>Mike,
>>>That means it has broader support, especially on non-Microsoft operating
systems. Something to consider.

Interesting can you explain this a little bit deeper, it is a interesting
subject I never have heard before about or stated with facts.

So maybe can you fullfil that gab?.

Fact is projects like Mono do not (yet) fully support the VB language, but
C# is fully supported. One proposed reason is that VB hasn't been
released as a standard. The open source community rarely supports
proprietary, non-standard solutions.

C# standard:
http://www.ecma-international.org/pu...s/Ecma-334.htm

A related discussion about standardizing VB:
http://www.panopticoncentral.net/arc.../30/10911.aspx

Microsoft is about the only major software company that has continued to
support BASIC from past to present. BASIC also has the dogma of still
being a beginner's programming language with severe limitations and poor
performance. Although that was true 10+ years ago, I don't believe it to
be true today. But you only get one chance at a first impression.

Open source is entangled in .Net:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/06/...PENT2006-09-12


Sep 14 '06 #14

"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <no************@planet.nlwrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
Mike,

Do you mean that this sentence:
>>That means it has broader support, especially on non-Microsoft operating
systems. Something to consider.

Completely build on the Mono project and some personal opinions, because of
this sentence above I would have expected more.
Not sure I understand your question. Mono is the only mature non-Windows CLR
port that I know of, and VB.Net is only partially supported.
You are right in that, that VB has a quicker evolution path than C# and
therefore probably Mono can not keep in line with that, but I think that this
tells more about what ECMA means as registration, like registration at a non
computer company has for ever meaned, it is no benefit.
I don't know that VB has a quicker evolutionary path. But I do know it hasn't
been published as a standard so that makes it more difficult for other
companies/organization to implement it. How can you safely write a compiler for
a language that hasn't been officially published? This is especially
unfortunate considering VB is one of the most widely used languages by (Windows)
programmers.
We have seen that with more languages who don't exist anymore. Basic has a
very long lifeline you know (AFAIK after Cobol the longest) for a program
language.
Hence my dogma comment.
Before you misunderstood me, I find both VB.Net and C# very fine programming
languages.

Just my thought,
I do as well, and even think that maybe there's really no good reason to have
both. They're not all that different, and being a programmer, I'd rather just
master one language than multiple!

Sep 14 '06 #15
Mike,

I have the idea that you have never used the VB.Net IDE. Just looked at some
blogs that the world is flat and therefore it is in your opinion flat.
..
Now you are probably telling something uninvestigated in this newsgroup,
just looking at the language specifications..

Cor

"Mike Lowery" <se******@mouse-potato.comschreef in bericht
news:um**************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <no************@planet.nlwrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>Mike,

Do you mean that this sentence:
>>>That means it has broader support, especially on non-Microsoft operating
systems. Something to consider.

Completely build on the Mono project and some personal opinions, because
of this sentence above I would have expected more.

Not sure I understand your question. Mono is the only mature non-Windows
CLR port that I know of, and VB.Net is only partially supported.
>You are right in that, that VB has a quicker evolution path than C# and
therefore probably Mono can not keep in line with that, but I think that
this tells more about what ECMA means as registration, like registration
at a non computer company has for ever meaned, it is no benefit.

I don't know that VB has a quicker evolutionary path. But I do know it
hasn't been published as a standard so that makes it more difficult for
other companies/organization to implement it. How can you safely write a
compiler for a language that hasn't been officially published? This is
especially unfortunate considering VB is one of the most widely used
languages by (Windows) programmers.
>We have seen that with more languages who don't exist anymore. Basic has
a very long lifeline you know (AFAIK after Cobol the longest) for a
program language.

Hence my dogma comment.
>Before you misunderstood me, I find both VB.Net and C# very fine
programming languages.

Just my thought,

I do as well, and even think that maybe there's really no good reason to
have both. They're not all that different, and being a programmer, I'd
rather just master one language than multiple!

Sep 14 '06 #16
OH MY GOD. Well now you know. This is one of the famous CANS OF WORMS and
you went and opened it again.

THIS THREAD WILL RUN AND RUN........AND RUN.
I have no personal axe to grind but I suggest you look at some code from
both languages. Visit one of the sample sites and download some from both
languages. The answer to your question is which looks easier to read and
sits more gently on the eye. Learn that one! And ignore all the VB C#
biggots.

C# samples at http://msdn.microsoft.com/vcsharp/do...les/23samples/

VB samples at http://www.freevbcode.com/

There are many more sites offering usfull samples

Good luck
Sep 14 '06 #17
Uh.... I've been using VB.Net and Visual Studio.Net IDE for about four years
now. Your poor English makes your messages very hard to understand.

"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <no************@planet.nlwrote in message
news:es**************@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
Mike,

I have the idea that you have never used the VB.Net IDE. Just looked at some
blogs that the world is flat and therefore it is in your opinion flat.
.
Now you are probably telling something uninvestigated in this newsgroup, just
looking at the language specifications..

Cor

"Mike Lowery" <se******@mouse-potato.comschreef in bericht
news:um**************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>
"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <no************@planet.nlwrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>Mike,

Do you mean that this sentence:

That means it has broader support, especially on non-Microsoft operating
systems. Something to consider.

Completely build on the Mono project and some personal opinions, because of
this sentence above I would have expected more.

Not sure I understand your question. Mono is the only mature non-Windows CLR
port that I know of, and VB.Net is only partially supported.
>>You are right in that, that VB has a quicker evolution path than C# and
therefore probably Mono can not keep in line with that, but I think that
this tells more about what ECMA means as registration, like registration at
a non computer company has for ever meaned, it is no benefit.

I don't know that VB has a quicker evolutionary path. But I do know it
hasn't been published as a standard so that makes it more difficult for other
companies/organization to implement it. How can you safely write a compiler
for a language that hasn't been officially published? This is especially
unfortunate considering VB is one of the most widely used languages by
(Windows) programmers.
>>We have seen that with more languages who don't exist anymore. Basic has a
very long lifeline you know (AFAIK after Cobol the longest) for a program
language.

Hence my dogma comment.
>>Before you misunderstood me, I find both VB.Net and C# very fine programming
languages.

Just my thought,

I do as well, and even think that maybe there's really no good reason to have
both. They're not all that different, and being a programmer, I'd rather
just master one language than multiple!


Sep 14 '06 #18
Your poor English makes your messages very hard to understand.
>
Yes the same I have with yours.

Cor
"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <no************@planet.nlwrote in message
news:es**************@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>Mike,

I have the idea that you have never used the VB.Net IDE. Just looked at
some blogs that the world is flat and therefore it is in your opinion
flat.
.
Now you are probably telling something uninvestigated in this newsgroup,
just looking at the language specifications..

Cor

"Mike Lowery" <se******@mouse-potato.comschreef in bericht
news:um**************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>
"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <no************@planet.nlwrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl.. .
Mike,

Do you mean that this sentence:

>That means it has broader support, especially on non-Microsoft
>operating systems. Something to consider.

Completely build on the Mono project and some personal opinions,
because of this sentence above I would have expected more.

Not sure I understand your question. Mono is the only mature
non-Windows CLR port that I know of, and VB.Net is only partially
supported.

You are right in that, that VB has a quicker evolution path than C# and
therefore probably Mono can not keep in line with that, but I think
that this tells more about what ECMA means as registration, like
registration at a non computer company has for ever meaned, it is no
benefit.

I don't know that VB has a quicker evolutionary path. But I do know it
hasn't been published as a standard so that makes it more difficult for
other companies/organization to implement it. How can you safely write
a compiler for a language that hasn't been officially published? This
is especially unfortunate considering VB is one of the most widely used
languages by (Windows) programmers.

We have seen that with more languages who don't exist anymore. Basic
has a very long lifeline you know (AFAIK after Cobol the longest) for a
program language.

Hence my dogma comment.

Before you misunderstood me, I find both VB.Net and C# very fine
programming languages.

Just my thought,

I do as well, and even think that maybe there's really no good reason to
have both. They're not all that different, and being a programmer, I'd
rather just master one language than multiple!



Sep 15 '06 #19
His argument bases on the fact that there is no standardization for VB.NET.
Because there is no standard there is alot of trouble supporting it in other
environments with another implementation (such as mono). Quite often people
come accross very strange edge conditions in C# (some which defy common
logic, especially dealing with advanced overloading etc), to determine
whether the compiler is acting in a compliant way or not one can cross
reference the ECMA specification which defines the behavior a compliant
compiler should have. Since there is no such definition for VB.NET one can
only say that the behavior exhibited by the MS compiler is the correct
behavior ... This becomes extremely problematic when trying to implement a
compiler for another environment that can be "compliant" with VB.NET ...

Because of this he is saying if cross platform development (compilation) is
important to you .. then C# is a better choice.

If you do not need to recompile (which is quite possible) it does not matter
which you use since mono can run the il produced by the vb.net compiler.

Cheers,

Greg

"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <no************@planet.nlwrote in message
news:es**************@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
Mike,

I have the idea that you have never used the VB.Net IDE. Just looked at
some blogs that the world is flat and therefore it is in your opinion
flat.
.
Now you are probably telling something uninvestigated in this newsgroup,
just looking at the language specifications..

Cor

"Mike Lowery" <se******@mouse-potato.comschreef in bericht
news:um**************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>
"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <no************@planet.nlwrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>Mike,

Do you mean that this sentence:

That means it has broader support, especially on non-Microsoft operating
systems. Something to consider.

Completely build on the Mono project and some personal opinions, because
of this sentence above I would have expected more.

Not sure I understand your question. Mono is the only mature non-Windows
CLR port that I know of, and VB.Net is only partially supported.
>>You are right in that, that VB has a quicker evolution path than C# and
therefore probably Mono can not keep in line with that, but I think that
this tells more about what ECMA means as registration, like registration
at a non computer company has for ever meaned, it is no benefit.

I don't know that VB has a quicker evolutionary path. But I do know it
hasn't been published as a standard so that makes it more difficult for
other companies/organization to implement it. How can you safely write a
compiler for a language that hasn't been officially published? This is
especially unfortunate considering VB is one of the most widely used
languages by (Windows) programmers.
>>We have seen that with more languages who don't exist anymore. Basic has
a very long lifeline you know (AFAIK after Cobol the longest) for a
program language.

Hence my dogma comment.
>>Before you misunderstood me, I find both VB.Net and C# very fine
programming languages.

Just my thought,

I do as well, and even think that maybe there's really no good reason to
have both. They're not all that different, and being a programmer, I'd
rather just master one language than multiple!


Sep 15 '06 #20
Greg Young <dr*******************@hotmail.comwrote:

<snip>
If you do not need to recompile (which is quite possible) it does not matter
which you use since mono can run the il produced by the vb.net
compiler.
Only as long as all of the VB.NET functions you've used from the
Microsoft.VisualBasic assembly are supported - I believe that these
days most are supported, but I suspect some aren't. That's another
reason it's harder to support VB.NET on other platforms than C# - you
can't really claim full language support without supporting all of the
"extra" functions.

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too
Sep 15 '06 #21
Jon,

Beside things as indexed properties there are not much things that differs.
However, for most VB.Net developers is the background compiling and what is
done with that automaticly very important.

I don't feel the difference if I am busy with VB.Net or C#. I miss in C#
handy things as by instance to stop the debugger in C# conditional which is
in VB.Net very easy (so an indirect question to you) for the rest I do not
even feel the difference. Althouhg VB.Net is still my favorite because of
those things I wrote in my first sentence. (Beside that I hate that I have
to write that not needed "DIM")

Cor
..
"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <sk***@pobox.comschreef in bericht
news:MP************************@msnews.microsoft.c om...
Greg Young <dr*******************@hotmail.comwrote:

<snip>
>If you do not need to recompile (which is quite possible) it does not
matter
which you use since mono can run the il produced by the vb.net
compiler.

Only as long as all of the VB.NET functions you've used from the
Microsoft.VisualBasic assembly are supported - I believe that these
days most are supported, but I suspect some aren't. That's another
reason it's harder to support VB.NET on other platforms than C# - you
can't really claim full language support without supporting all of the
"extra" functions.

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

Sep 15 '06 #22
Cor Ligthert [MVP] <no************@planet.nlwrote:
Beside things as indexed properties there are not much things that differs.
However, for most VB.Net developers is the background compiling and what is
done with that automaticly very important.

I don't feel the difference if I am busy with VB.Net or C#. I miss in C#
handy things as by instance to stop the debugger in C# conditional which is
in VB.Net very easy (so an indirect question to you) for the rest I do not
even feel the difference. Althouhg VB.Net is still my favorite because of
those things I wrote in my first sentence. (Beside that I hate that I have
to write that not needed "DIM")
None of that is relevant to the effort required to port a language to a
different platform, however, which was the topic of my post. You don't
just need to create a compiler, you need to add a fair amount of
framework support.

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too
Sep 15 '06 #23
Then I have really the idea that Jon knows something he can tell me, than he
gives an answer which what I cannot do anything. So to be implecit, what is
the C# equality for the VB.Net stop command?

Thanks in advance.

Cor

"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <sk***@pobox.comschreef in bericht
news:MP************************@msnews.microsoft.c om...
Cor Ligthert [MVP] <no************@planet.nlwrote:
>Beside things as indexed properties there are not much things that
differs.
However, for most VB.Net developers is the background compiling and what
is
done with that automaticly very important.

I don't feel the difference if I am busy with VB.Net or C#. I miss in C#
handy things as by instance to stop the debugger in C# conditional which
is
in VB.Net very easy (so an indirect question to you) for the rest I do
not
even feel the difference. Althouhg VB.Net is still my favorite because of
those things I wrote in my first sentence. (Beside that I hate that I
have
to write that not needed "DIM")

None of that is relevant to the effort required to port a language to a
different platform, however, which was the topic of my post. You don't
just need to create a compiler, you need to add a fair amount of
framework support.

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

Sep 15 '06 #24
Cor,

C# doesn't have an equivalent to VB.NET's Stop statement.
System.Debugger.Break does the same thing without polluting the
language with unneeded keywords.

Brian

Cor Ligthert [MVP] wrote:
So to be implecit, what is
the C# equality for the VB.Net stop command?
Sep 15 '06 #25
Brian,

Thanks,

Cor

"Brian Gideon" <br*********@yahoo.comschreef in bericht
news:11**********************@i3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
Cor,

C# doesn't have an equivalent to VB.NET's Stop statement.
System.Debugger.Break does the same thing without polluting the
language with unneeded keywords.

Brian

Cor Ligthert [MVP] wrote:
>So to be implecit, what is
the C# equality for the VB.Net stop command?

Sep 15 '06 #26
If you're going to be a web developer learning C# is the better choice
because the syntax is exactly the same as JavaScript and the grammar is
similar. The same is true when comparing C# and the Java language. There's
no such thing as a competent web developer that does not know how to code
using JavaScript and there's nobody who can honestly say JavaScript is not
required to master web development.

You can actually learn three languages for the price of one: JavaScript, C#
and Java. Then you apply the language to the .NET Framework. Its true that
the framework makes using different languages -- mostly equal to one
another -- but the white lie from those that support VB is the fact that
what they say is only partially true on the server because language features
leap frog one another all the time. So at any given point in time VB may
support more features and be optimized at a greater level than C# or C# may
have an edge for some time and VB will lag behind -- BUT -- those concerns
are only relevant for server-side code. Web developers also have to master
cleint-side code and that requires learning JavaScript. In fact the entire
web has for all intents and purposes become all about client-side JavaScript
at this point in time.

The people who support VB or those that babble about the languages being the
same keep forgetting to mention these facts.

Learn JavaScript and C#.

<%= Clinton Gallagher
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
MAP 43°2'17"N 88°2'37"W : 43°2'17"N 88°2'37"W

"esha" <es**@newsgroups.comwrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
I'm going to learn one of Framework based languages. I have a friend who
knows VB 2005 and he could help me with lessons. But I know from other
friends that C# is more popular and has higher demand.
My question - what to learn if I know in both VB and C# almost nothing.

Thank you

Esha

Sep 21 '06 #27
clinton,

You probably never have created as Webdevelopper an ASP page, which is
always loaded with VBS.

And because that this are Microsoft newsgroups and not Linux newsgroups it
the change that somebody who ask here a question is as webdeveloper more
familiar with ASP.

Beside that do I find it really a pity that you are using C# as JavaScript.
JavaScript is seldom OOP used, this can as well with C#, however with that
you are in my idea misusing the language.

(Almost everything you can do with C#, you can do with VB.Net by the way
especially when it is about webdevelopment, the last weeks are there more
enthusiast messages in the vb newsgroup from people using VB.Net while using
before other languages as C++ about the possibilities and performance
results with that language).

Just as answer on your reply. Beside the in my idea better VB.Net IDE, I
don't have any preference in both languages.

Cor
"clintonG" <cs*********@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.comschre ef in bericht
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
If you're going to be a web developer learning C# is the better choice
because the syntax is exactly the same as JavaScript and the grammar is
similar. The same is true when comparing C# and the Java language. There's
no such thing as a competent web developer that does not know how to code
using JavaScript and there's nobody who can honestly say JavaScript is not
required to master web development.

You can actually learn three languages for the price of one: JavaScript,
C# and Java. Then you apply the language to the .NET Framework. Its true
that the framework makes using different languages -- mostly equal to one
another -- but the white lie from those that support VB is the fact that
what they say is only partially true on the server because language
features leap frog one another all the time. So at any given point in time
VB may support more features and be optimized at a greater level than C#
or C# may have an edge for some time and VB will lag behind -- BUT --
those concerns are only relevant for server-side code. Web developers also
have to master cleint-side code and that requires learning JavaScript. In
fact the entire web has for all intents and purposes become all about
client-side JavaScript at this point in time.

The people who support VB or those that babble about the languages being
the same keep forgetting to mention these facts.

Learn JavaScript and C#.

<%= Clinton Gallagher
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
MAP 43°2'17"N 88°2'37"W : 43°2'17"N 88°2'37"W

"esha" <es**@newsgroups.comwrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>I'm going to learn one of Framework based languages. I have a friend who
knows VB 2005 and he could help me with lessons. But I know from other
friends that C# is more popular and has higher demand.
My question - what to learn if I know in both VB and C# almost nothing.

Thank you

Esha


Sep 22 '06 #28
Cor, Cor, Cor, you ignorant slut (that is a joke from an old TV show)

First of all, I have been writing code since the mid 1980s using BASIC,
Fortran, and C on DOS and Unix machines. I never really did well at it --
very poorly in fact -- and I didn't take coding seriously until I started
getting serious about web development.

After about 10 years of administration experience and the explosion of
growth of the Amiga, Mac, DOS/Windows and Unix OS systems I was supporting I
was no longer able to cope. Since I was working as an architect I decided to
focus on the Windows platform because we used DOS and Windows almost
exclusively because CAD was the fundamental application used by the AEC-CAFM
disciplines. The Mac was used a lot in those days too but most CAD vendors
dumped the Mac because it was a dog compared to the PC. Those were the days
when a 10 MB hard drive cost more than $3,000 US and a box of 3.5" floppies
was more than $80 US. You were probably still wearing diapers :-)

So when the web came around I started getting serious about coding. Since I
was a "Microsoft guy" I naturally used ASP/VBScript, JavaScript and of
course CSS which I note has syntax also derived from the legacy syntax of
the C programming language. I wrote all HTML and code by hand because I had
already learned the pitfalls of push-button monkey coding and how it
cripples a would-be web developer. I developed solutions for both intranet
and internet websites.

When the .NET Framework was released I started using VB.NET but then I had
what is called an epiphany (that word is in the dictionary). In case you
don't understand big words it means I pulled my head out of my @ss, took a
breath of fresh air and realized what a lame mistake I had made because half
of web development is done on the server and the other half is done on the
client and the half done on the client requires the use of JavaScript which
has been derived from C.

So I have to tell you Cor I enjoy arguing with you now and then but I have
to ask you to pull your head out of your @ss because you just don't know
what you're talking about when you criticize me. Furthermore, you seem to
have misunderstood what I said. I know you are learning English and words
and phrases may not make sense sometimes so just remember, I still love you
even though you have your head stuck up your @ss but it really is much nicer
out here where there is fresh air. The fresh air helps people think clearly
and understand why it is wiser and more efficient to do web development
using C#. So I'll repeat it again...

Half of web development is done on the server using C# and the other half is
done on the client using JavaScript so why use different languages with
different syntax?

The English word that will help you understand is the word "pragmatism."
Although it has several meanings, when you look it up in a dictionary and
cross reference how the word is used by those speaking and writing the
contemporary form of the English language you will understand why it is
pragmatic to learn three languages for the price of one. After all, isn't
that why you are trying to learn English? So you can speak and write with
others in many other nations?

Just think how small your world would be if you could only speak and write
in Dutch (which I'm assuming is your native language). The same pragmatic
principle works with programming languages. It is pragmatic to learn
languages that derive from the legacy of the C programming language because
doing so allows a developer to speak and write to many platforms.

Have a nice day over there...

<%= Clinton


"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <no************@planet.nlwrote in message
news:OE****************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
clinton,

You probably never have created as Webdevelopper an ASP page, which is
always loaded with VBS.

And because that this are Microsoft newsgroups and not Linux newsgroups it
the change that somebody who ask here a question is as webdeveloper more
familiar with ASP.

Beside that do I find it really a pity that you are using C# as
JavaScript. JavaScript is seldom OOP used, this can as well with C#,
however with that you are in my idea misusing the language.

(Almost everything you can do with C#, you can do with VB.Net by the way
especially when it is about webdevelopment, the last weeks are there more
enthusiast messages in the vb newsgroup from people using VB.Net while
using before other languages as C++ about the possibilities and
performance results with that language).

Just as answer on your reply. Beside the in my idea better VB.Net IDE, I
don't have any preference in both languages.

Cor
"clintonG" <cs*********@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.comschre ef in
bericht news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>If you're going to be a web developer learning C# is the better choice
because the syntax is exactly the same as JavaScript and the grammar is
similar. The same is true when comparing C# and the Java language.
There's no such thing as a competent web developer that does not know how
to code using JavaScript and there's nobody who can honestly say
JavaScript is not required to master web development.

You can actually learn three languages for the price of one: JavaScript,
C# and Java. Then you apply the language to the .NET Framework. Its true
that the framework makes using different languages -- mostly equal to one
another -- but the white lie from those that support VB is the fact that
what they say is only partially true on the server because language
features leap frog one another all the time. So at any given point in
time VB may support more features and be optimized at a greater level
than C# or C# may have an edge for some time and VB will lag behind --
BUT -- those concerns are only relevant for server-side code. Web
developers also have to master cleint-side code and that requires
learning JavaScript. In fact the entire web has for all intents and
purposes become all about client-side JavaScript at this point in time.

The people who support VB or those that babble about the languages being
the same keep forgetting to mention these facts.

Learn JavaScript and C#.

<%= Clinton Gallagher
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
MAP 43°2'17"N 88°2'37"W : 43°2'17"N 88°2'37"W

"esha" <es**@newsgroups.comwrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>I'm going to learn one of Framework based languages. I have a friend who
knows VB 2005 and he could help me with lessons. But I know from other
friends that C# is more popular and has higher demand.
My question - what to learn if I know in both VB and C# almost nothing.

Thank you

Esha



Sep 22 '06 #29
Clinton,
I am smiling now; I am glad that you think I am so young, so I leave you in
that delusion

You write about "pragmatism" as an English word and state a complete message
on it, maybe should you investigate something first before you write it. The
same is in fact for almost all what you wrote beside the things about
yourself, those I cannot check.

It is not only that I can speak with people in English, I can speak more
languages. That writing a language is much more difficult than speaking or
reading, is something people who are only able to speak the language they
learned at their mothers tit, is something those people don't understand.
They are often glad when they can speak 10 words in another language.

But your message was funny to read and I am glad about your compliment that
my behaviour makes that you have the idea that I am so young.

That your tone from the message is in a way you never will see me done, is
something I forgive you. If that is the only language you learned than you
cannot help that.

:-)

Cor


"clintonG" <cs*********@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.comschre ef in bericht
news:e3**************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
Cor, Cor, Cor, you ignorant slut (that is a joke from an old TV show)

First of all, I have been writing code since the mid 1980s using BASIC,
Fortran, and C on DOS and Unix machines. I never really did well at it --
very poorly in fact -- and I didn't take coding seriously until I started
getting serious about web development.

After about 10 years of administration experience and the explosion of
growth of the Amiga, Mac, DOS/Windows and Unix OS systems I was supporting
I was no longer able to cope. Since I was working as an architect I
decided to focus on the Windows platform because we used DOS and Windows
almost exclusively because CAD was the fundamental application used by the
AEC-CAFM disciplines. The Mac was used a lot in those days too but most
CAD vendors dumped the Mac because it was a dog compared to the PC. Those
were the days when a 10 MB hard drive cost more than $3,000 US and a box
of 3.5" floppies was more than $80 US. You were probably still wearing
diapers :-)

So when the web came around I started getting serious about coding. Since
I was a "Microsoft guy" I naturally used ASP/VBScript, JavaScript and of
course CSS which I note has syntax also derived from the legacy syntax of
the C programming language. I wrote all HTML and code by hand because I
had already learned the pitfalls of push-button monkey coding and how it
cripples a would-be web developer. I developed solutions for both intranet
and internet websites.

When the .NET Framework was released I started using VB.NET but then I had
what is called an epiphany (that word is in the dictionary). In case you
don't understand big words it means I pulled my head out of my @ss, took a
breath of fresh air and realized what a lame mistake I had made because
half of web development is done on the server and the other half is done
on the client and the half done on the client requires the use of
JavaScript which has been derived from C.

So I have to tell you Cor I enjoy arguing with you now and then but I have
to ask you to pull your head out of your @ss because you just don't know
what you're talking about when you criticize me. Furthermore, you seem to
have misunderstood what I said. I know you are learning English and words
and phrases may not make sense sometimes so just remember, I still love
you even though you have your head stuck up your @ss but it really is much
nicer out here where there is fresh air. The fresh air helps people think
clearly and understand why it is wiser and more efficient to do web
development using C#. So I'll repeat it again...

Half of web development is done on the server using C# and the other half
is done on the client using JavaScript so why use different languages with
different syntax?

The English word that will help you understand is the word "pragmatism."
Although it has several meanings, when you look it up in a dictionary and
cross reference how the word is used by those speaking and writing the
contemporary form of the English language you will understand why it is
pragmatic to learn three languages for the price of one. After all, isn't
that why you are trying to learn English? So you can speak and write with
others in many other nations?

Just think how small your world would be if you could only speak and write
in Dutch (which I'm assuming is your native language). The same pragmatic
principle works with programming languages. It is pragmatic to learn
languages that derive from the legacy of the C programming language
because doing so allows a developer to speak and write to many platforms.

Have a nice day over there...

<%= Clinton


"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <no************@planet.nlwrote in message
news:OE****************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>clinton,

You probably never have created as Webdevelopper an ASP page, which is
always loaded with VBS.

And because that this are Microsoft newsgroups and not Linux newsgroups
it the change that somebody who ask here a question is as webdeveloper
more familiar with ASP.

Beside that do I find it really a pity that you are using C# as
JavaScript. JavaScript is seldom OOP used, this can as well with C#,
however with that you are in my idea misusing the language.

(Almost everything you can do with C#, you can do with VB.Net by the way
especially when it is about webdevelopment, the last weeks are there more
enthusiast messages in the vb newsgroup from people using VB.Net while
using before other languages as C++ about the possibilities and
performance results with that language).

Just as answer on your reply. Beside the in my idea better VB.Net IDE, I
don't have any preference in both languages.

Cor
"clintonG" <cs*********@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.comschre ef in
bericht news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>If you're going to be a web developer learning C# is the better choice
because the syntax is exactly the same as JavaScript and the grammar is
similar. The same is true when comparing C# and the Java language.
There's no such thing as a competent web developer that does not know
how to code using JavaScript and there's nobody who can honestly say
JavaScript is not required to master web development.

You can actually learn three languages for the price of one: JavaScript,
C# and Java. Then you apply the language to the .NET Framework. Its true
that the framework makes using different languages -- mostly equal to
one another -- but the white lie from those that support VB is the fact
that what they say is only partially true on the server because language
features leap frog one another all the time. So at any given point in
time VB may support more features and be optimized at a greater level
than C# or C# may have an edge for some time and VB will lag behind --
BUT -- those concerns are only relevant for server-side code. Web
developers also have to master cleint-side code and that requires
learning JavaScript. In fact the entire web has for all intents and
purposes become all about client-side JavaScript at this point in time.

The people who support VB or those that babble about the languages being
the same keep forgetting to mention these facts.

Learn JavaScript and C#.

<%= Clinton Gallagher
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
MAP 43°2'17"N 88°2'37"W : 43°2'17"N 88°2'37"W

"esha" <es**@newsgroups.comwrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl.. .
I'm going to learn one of Framework based languages. I have a friend
who knows VB 2005 and he could help me with lessons. But I know from
other friends that C# is more popular and has higher demand.
My question - what to learn if I know in both VB and C# almost nothing.

Thank you

Esha



Sep 22 '06 #30
Hi Cor,

While Clinton's remarks are unkind, he is correct about the usefulness of
learning C# if one is going to be a web application developer. Clinton is a
self-described "curmudgeon," but he is truly often helpful, and I know that
he is motivated by kind intentions.

Your response which I (and probably Clinton, although I can't speak for him)
take issue with is this:
>Beside that do I find it really a pity that you are using C# as
JavaScript. JavaScript is seldom OOP used, this can as well with C#,
however with that you are in my idea misusing the language.
Now, I have some trouble parsing your messages, but I get better at it with
practice! If I understand you correctly, this statement is incorrect.
ASP.Net is a web application technology, used about 95% of the time to
develop ASP.Net web pages, which generate HTML and have a client-side and a
server-side aspect to them. In fact, there is little that one can do on the
client side without JavaScript, and the ASP.Net programming model makes
liberal use of it, particularly for event-handling, but also for other
purposes. In a web application of any size and/or complexity, it is vital
for the developer to be familiar with not only the server-side programming
language used, but all of the client-side technologies as well, including
(but not limited to) HTTP, HTML, CSS, and yes, JavaScript. Only IE supports
client-side VBScript.

Clinton is also correct in pointing out that C# and JavaScript use the same
syntax, almost entirely. And he is correct in that if you learn C, C++, C#,
Java, or JavaScript, you have learned the syntax to all of these. As a side
note, you have also learned the syntax for DirectX High-Level Shader
Language (HLSL). So, that makes 6 languages for the price of one. And that
is a compelling reason, if one is learning this stuff for the first time, to
begin with C#.

Now, you are correct in that most ASP.Net developers currently came from an
ASP background, and are familiar with VBScript already, which makes it
easier for them to transition to VB.Net than C#. For these people, VB.Net is
often useful. But the OP is not a seasoned ASP developer. He is just
starting out. So, I have to agree with Clinton that, under the
circumstances, taking a good look at learning C# would make sense.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Software Composer
http://unclechutney.blogspot.com

A watched clock never boils.

"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <no************@planet.nlwrote in message
news:eV****************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
Clinton,
I am smiling now; I am glad that you think I am so young, so I leave you
in that delusion

You write about "pragmatism" as an English word and state a complete
message on it, maybe should you investigate something first before you
write it. The same is in fact for almost all what you wrote beside the
things about yourself, those I cannot check.

It is not only that I can speak with people in English, I can speak more
languages. That writing a language is much more difficult than speaking or
reading, is something people who are only able to speak the language they
learned at their mothers tit, is something those people don't understand.
They are often glad when they can speak 10 words in another language.

But your message was funny to read and I am glad about your compliment
that my behaviour makes that you have the idea that I am so young.

That your tone from the message is in a way you never will see me done, is
something I forgive you. If that is the only language you learned than you
cannot help that.

:-)

Cor


"clintonG" <cs*********@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.comschre ef in
bericht news:e3**************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>Cor, Cor, Cor, you ignorant slut (that is a joke from an old TV show)

First of all, I have been writing code since the mid 1980s using BASIC,
Fortran, and C on DOS and Unix machines. I never really did well at it --
very poorly in fact -- and I didn't take coding seriously until I started
getting serious about web development.

After about 10 years of administration experience and the explosion of
growth of the Amiga, Mac, DOS/Windows and Unix OS systems I was
supporting I was no longer able to cope. Since I was working as an
architect I decided to focus on the Windows platform because we used DOS
and Windows almost exclusively because CAD was the fundamental
application used by the AEC-CAFM disciplines. The Mac was used a lot in
those days too but most CAD vendors dumped the Mac because it was a dog
compared to the PC. Those were the days when a 10 MB hard drive cost more
than $3,000 US and a box of 3.5" floppies was more than $80 US. You were
probably still wearing diapers :-)

So when the web came around I started getting serious about coding. Since
I was a "Microsoft guy" I naturally used ASP/VBScript, JavaScript and of
course CSS which I note has syntax also derived from the legacy syntax of
the C programming language. I wrote all HTML and code by hand because I
had already learned the pitfalls of push-button monkey coding and how it
cripples a would-be web developer. I developed solutions for both
intranet and internet websites.

When the .NET Framework was released I started using VB.NET but then I
had what is called an epiphany (that word is in the dictionary). In case
you don't understand big words it means I pulled my head out of my @ss,
took a breath of fresh air and realized what a lame mistake I had made
because half of web development is done on the server and the other half
is done on the client and the half done on the client requires the use of
JavaScript which has been derived from C.

So I have to tell you Cor I enjoy arguing with you now and then but I
have to ask you to pull your head out of your @ss because you just don't
know what you're talking about when you criticize me. Furthermore, you
seem to have misunderstood what I said. I know you are learning English
and words and phrases may not make sense sometimes so just remember, I
still love you even though you have your head stuck up your @ss but it
really is much nicer out here where there is fresh air. The fresh air
helps people think clearly and understand why it is wiser and more
efficient to do web development using C#. So I'll repeat it again...

Half of web development is done on the server using C# and the other half
is done on the client using JavaScript so why use different languages
with different syntax?

The English word that will help you understand is the word "pragmatism."
Although it has several meanings, when you look it up in a dictionary and
cross reference how the word is used by those speaking and writing the
contemporary form of the English language you will understand why it is
pragmatic to learn three languages for the price of one. After all, isn't
that why you are trying to learn English? So you can speak and write with
others in many other nations?

Just think how small your world would be if you could only speak and
write in Dutch (which I'm assuming is your native language). The same
pragmatic principle works with programming languages. It is pragmatic to
learn languages that derive from the legacy of the C programming language
because doing so allows a developer to speak and write to many platforms.

Have a nice day over there...

<%= Clinton


"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <no************@planet.nlwrote in message
news:OE****************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>clinton,

You probably never have created as Webdevelopper an ASP page, which is
always loaded with VBS.

And because that this are Microsoft newsgroups and not Linux newsgroups
it the change that somebody who ask here a question is as webdeveloper
more familiar with ASP.

Beside that do I find it really a pity that you are using C# as
JavaScript. JavaScript is seldom OOP used, this can as well with C#,
however with that you are in my idea misusing the language.

(Almost everything you can do with C#, you can do with VB.Net by the way
especially when it is about webdevelopment, the last weeks are there
more enthusiast messages in the vb newsgroup from people using VB.Net
while using before other languages as C++ about the possibilities and
performance results with that language).

Just as answer on your reply. Beside the in my idea better VB.Net IDE,
I don't have any preference in both languages.

Cor
"clintonG" <cs*********@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.comschre ef in
bericht news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
If you're going to be a web developer learning C# is the better choice
because the syntax is exactly the same as JavaScript and the grammar is
similar. The same is true when comparing C# and the Java language.
There's no such thing as a competent web developer that does not know
how to code using JavaScript and there's nobody who can honestly say
JavaScript is not required to master web development.

You can actually learn three languages for the price of one:
JavaScript, C# and Java. Then you apply the language to the .NET
Framework. Its true that the framework makes using different
languages -- mostly equal to one another -- but the white lie from
those that support VB is the fact that what they say is only partially
true on the server because language features leap frog one another all
the time. So at any given point in time VB may support more features
and be optimized at a greater level than C# or C# may have an edge for
some time and VB will lag behind -- BUT -- those concerns are only
relevant for server-side code. Web developers also have to master
cleint-side code and that requires learning JavaScript. In fact the
entire web has for all intents and purposes become all about
client-side JavaScript at this point in time.

The people who support VB or those that babble about the languages
being the same keep forgetting to mention these facts.

Learn JavaScript and C#.

<%= Clinton Gallagher
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
MAP 43°2'17"N 88°2'37"W : 43°2'17"N 88°2'37"W

"esha" <es**@newsgroups.comwrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl. ..
I'm going to learn one of Framework based languages. I have a friend
who knows VB 2005 and he could help me with lessons. But I know from
other friends that C# is more popular and has higher demand.
My question - what to learn if I know in both VB and C# almost
nothing.
>
Thank you
>
Esha
>




Sep 22 '06 #31
Kevin,

My first reply to Clinton was only trying to do it in a way as Clinton does
it in my idea often himself. See his reply to me. He did not understand that
I was doing that. :-). I certainly did not mean it exactly as I wrote,
therefore I have seen too many messages from Clinton.

In my idea I am very well (already for a very long time) handy with
JavaScript, but with that you don't learn OOP (which you in my idea for sure
will agree seeing our last discussion in this newsgroup) which is much more
important than writing a semicolon or whatever.

(I cannot get the right other word for that discussion in any language
because it was not a discussion, maybe elaborating)

If you use than C# or VB.Net is in my opinion than not so important, for
VB.Net speaks in my idea that it has a much more educational IDE because it
is helping you better and quicker to correct your mistyping's
(backgroundcompiling) and is easier to find the classes with the
intellisence (I use both languages). You see direct what you are doing
wrong. For C# speaks in my idea, that you have not so many keywords and
methods which overlaps each other in fact, as in VB.Net.

Cor
"Kevin Spencer" <uc*@ftc.govschreef in bericht
news:eZ**************@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
Hi Cor,

While Clinton's remarks are unkind, he is correct about the usefulness of
learning C# if one is going to be a web application developer. Clinton is
a self-described "curmudgeon," but he is truly often helpful, and I know
that he is motivated by kind intentions.

Your response which I (and probably Clinton, although I can't speak for
him) take issue with is this:
>>Beside that do I find it really a pity that you are using C# as
JavaScript. JavaScript is seldom OOP used, this can as well with C#,
however with that you are in my idea misusing the language.

Now, I have some trouble parsing your messages, but I get better at it
with practice! If I understand you correctly, this statement is incorrect.
ASP.Net is a web application technology, used about 95% of the time to
develop ASP.Net web pages, which generate HTML and have a client-side and
a server-side aspect to them. In fact, there is little that one can do on
the client side without JavaScript, and the ASP.Net programming model
makes liberal use of it, particularly for event-handling, but also for
other purposes. In a web application of any size and/or complexity, it is
vital for the developer to be familiar with not only the server-side
programming language used, but all of the client-side technologies as
well, including (but not limited to) HTTP, HTML, CSS, and yes, JavaScript.
Only IE supports client-side VBScript.

Clinton is also correct in pointing out that C# and JavaScript use the
same syntax, almost entirely. And he is correct in that if you learn C,
C++, C#, Java, or JavaScript, you have learned the syntax to all of these.
As a side note, you have also learned the syntax for DirectX High-Level
Shader Language (HLSL). So, that makes 6 languages for the price of one.
And that is a compelling reason, if one is learning this stuff for the
first time, to begin with C#.

Now, you are correct in that most ASP.Net developers currently came from
an ASP background, and are familiar with VBScript already, which makes it
easier for them to transition to VB.Net than C#. For these people, VB.Net
is often useful. But the OP is not a seasoned ASP developer. He is just
starting out. So, I have to agree with Clinton that, under the
circumstances, taking a good look at learning C# would make sense.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Software Composer
http://unclechutney.blogspot.com

A watched clock never boils.

"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <no************@planet.nlwrote in message
news:eV****************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>Clinton,
I am smiling now; I am glad that you think I am so young, so I leave you
in that delusion

You write about "pragmatism" as an English word and state a complete
message on it, maybe should you investigate something first before you
write it. The same is in fact for almost all what you wrote beside the
things about yourself, those I cannot check.

It is not only that I can speak with people in English, I can speak more
languages. That writing a language is much more difficult than speaking
or reading, is something people who are only able to speak the language
they learned at their mothers tit, is something those people don't
understand. They are often glad when they can speak 10 words in another
language.

But your message was funny to read and I am glad about your compliment
that my behaviour makes that you have the idea that I am so young.

That your tone from the message is in a way you never will see me done,
is something I forgive you. If that is the only language you learned than
you cannot help that.

:-)

Cor


"clintonG" <cs*********@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.comschre ef in
bericht news:e3**************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>Cor, Cor, Cor, you ignorant slut (that is a joke from an old TV show)

First of all, I have been writing code since the mid 1980s using BASIC,
Fortran, and C on DOS and Unix machines. I never really did well at
it -- very poorly in fact -- and I didn't take coding seriously until I
started getting serious about web development.

After about 10 years of administration experience and the explosion of
growth of the Amiga, Mac, DOS/Windows and Unix OS systems I was
supporting I was no longer able to cope. Since I was working as an
architect I decided to focus on the Windows platform because we used DOS
and Windows almost exclusively because CAD was the fundamental
application used by the AEC-CAFM disciplines. The Mac was used a lot in
those days too but most CAD vendors dumped the Mac because it was a dog
compared to the PC. Those were the days when a 10 MB hard drive cost
more than $3,000 US and a box of 3.5" floppies was more than $80 US. You
were probably still wearing diapers :-)

So when the web came around I started getting serious about coding.
Since I was a "Microsoft guy" I naturally used ASP/VBScript, JavaScript
and of course CSS which I note has syntax also derived from the legacy
syntax of the C programming language. I wrote all HTML and code by hand
because I had already learned the pitfalls of push-button monkey coding
and how it cripples a would-be web developer. I developed solutions for
both intranet and internet websites.

When the .NET Framework was released I started using VB.NET but then I
had what is called an epiphany (that word is in the dictionary). In case
you don't understand big words it means I pulled my head out of my @ss,
took a breath of fresh air and realized what a lame mistake I had made
because half of web development is done on the server and the other half
is done on the client and the half done on the client requires the use
of JavaScript which has been derived from C.

So I have to tell you Cor I enjoy arguing with you now and then but I
have to ask you to pull your head out of your @ss because you just don't
know what you're talking about when you criticize me. Furthermore, you
seem to have misunderstood what I said. I know you are learning English
and words and phrases may not make sense sometimes so just remember, I
still love you even though you have your head stuck up your @ss but it
really is much nicer out here where there is fresh air. The fresh air
helps people think clearly and understand why it is wiser and more
efficient to do web development using C#. So I'll repeat it again...

Half of web development is done on the server using C# and the other
half is done on the client using JavaScript so why use different
languages with different syntax?

The English word that will help you understand is the word "pragmatism."
Although it has several meanings, when you look it up in a dictionary
and cross reference how the word is used by those speaking and writing
the contemporary form of the English language you will understand why it
is pragmatic to learn three languages for the price of one. After all,
isn't that why you are trying to learn English? So you can speak and
write with others in many other nations?

Just think how small your world would be if you could only speak and
write in Dutch (which I'm assuming is your native language). The same
pragmatic principle works with programming languages. It is pragmatic to
learn languages that derive from the legacy of the C programming
language because doing so allows a developer to speak and write to many
platforms.

Have a nice day over there...

<%= Clinton


"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <no************@planet.nlwrote in message
news:OE****************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl.. .
clinton,

You probably never have created as Webdevelopper an ASP page, which is
always loaded with VBS.

And because that this are Microsoft newsgroups and not Linux newsgroups
it the change that somebody who ask here a question is as webdeveloper
more familiar with ASP.

Beside that do I find it really a pity that you are using C# as
JavaScript. JavaScript is seldom OOP used, this can as well with C#,
however with that you are in my idea misusing the language.

(Almost everything you can do with C#, you can do with VB.Net by the
way especially when it is about webdevelopment, the last weeks are
there more enthusiast messages in the vb newsgroup from people using
VB.Net while using before other languages as C++ about the
possibilities and performance results with that language).

Just as answer on your reply. Beside the in my idea better VB.Net IDE,
I don't have any preference in both languages.

Cor
"clintonG" <cs*********@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.comschre ef in
bericht news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
If you're going to be a web developer learning C# is the better choice
because the syntax is exactly the same as JavaScript and the grammar
is similar. The same is true when comparing C# and the Java language.
There's no such thing as a competent web developer that does not know
how to code using JavaScript and there's nobody who can honestly say
JavaScript is not required to master web development.
>
You can actually learn three languages for the price of one:
JavaScript, C# and Java. Then you apply the language to the .NET
Framework. Its true that the framework makes using different
languages -- mostly equal to one another -- but the white lie from
those that support VB is the fact that what they say is only partially
true on the server because language features leap frog one another all
the time. So at any given point in time VB may support more features
and be optimized at a greater level than C# or C# may have an edge for
some time and VB will lag behind -- BUT -- those concerns are only
relevant for server-side code. Web developers also have to master
cleint-side code and that requires learning JavaScript. In fact the
entire web has for all intents and purposes become all about
client-side JavaScript at this point in time.
>
The people who support VB or those that babble about the languages
being the same keep forgetting to mention these facts.
>
Learn JavaScript and C#.
>
<%= Clinton Gallagher
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
MAP 43°2'17"N 88°2'37"W : 43°2'17"N 88°2'37"W
>
>
>
"esha" <es**@newsgroups.comwrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl.. .
>I'm going to learn one of Framework based languages. I have a friend
>who knows VB 2005 and he could help me with lessons. But I know from
>other friends that C# is more popular and has higher demand.
>My question - what to learn if I know in both VB and C# almost
>nothing.
>>
>Thank you
>>
>Esha
>>
>
>




Sep 23 '06 #32
People who have argued their point unsuccessfully always try to change the
subject.

Because a programming language can be used to conform to a specific
programming methodology has nothing to do with the question that was asked.

Nobody asked how to learn OOP Cor so there's no need to talk about it but if
you do want to talk about it and compare VB.NET to C# when learning OOP
everybody I know that also knows VB.NET -- including myself -- consider
VB.NET a sloppy language that makes OOP read more like POOP.

Finally, you don't know what you're talking about again which is typical.
JavaScript does in fact support OOP however not as robust or as elegant as a
language such as C#. In fact JSON is becoming quite popular for this reason.

Hi to Kevin and bye-bye I'm through with this topic...

<%= Clinton

"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <no************@planet.nlwrote in message
news:O3**************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
Kevin,

My first reply to Clinton was only trying to do it in a way as Clinton
does it in my idea often himself. See his reply to me. He did not
understand that I was doing that. :-). I certainly did not mean it exactly
as I wrote, therefore I have seen too many messages from Clinton.

In my idea I am very well (already for a very long time) handy with
JavaScript, but with that you don't learn OOP (which you in my idea for
sure will agree seeing our last discussion in this newsgroup) which is
much more important than writing a semicolon or whatever.

(I cannot get the right other word for that discussion in any language
because it was not a discussion, maybe elaborating)

If you use than C# or VB.Net is in my opinion than not so important, for
VB.Net speaks in my idea that it has a much more educational IDE because
it is helping you better and quicker to correct your mistyping's
(backgroundcompiling) and is easier to find the classes with the
intellisence (I use both languages). You see direct what you are doing
wrong. For C# speaks in my idea, that you have not so many keywords and
methods which overlaps each other in fact, as in VB.Net.

Cor
"Kevin Spencer" <uc*@ftc.govschreef in bericht
news:eZ**************@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>Hi Cor,

While Clinton's remarks are unkind, he is correct about the usefulness of
learning C# if one is going to be a web application developer. Clinton is
a self-described "curmudgeon," but he is truly often helpful, and I know
that he is motivated by kind intentions.

Your response which I (and probably Clinton, although I can't speak for
him) take issue with is this:
>>>Beside that do I find it really a pity that you are using C# as
JavaScript. JavaScript is seldom OOP used, this can as well with C#,
however with that you are in my idea misusing the language.

Now, I have some trouble parsing your messages, but I get better at it
with practice! If I understand you correctly, this statement is
incorrect. ASP.Net is a web application technology, used about 95% of the
time to develop ASP.Net web pages, which generate HTML and have a
client-side and a server-side aspect to them. In fact, there is little
that one can do on the client side without JavaScript, and the ASP.Net
programming model makes liberal use of it, particularly for
event-handling, but also for other purposes. In a web application of any
size and/or complexity, it is vital for the developer to be familiar with
not only the server-side programming language used, but all of the
client-side technologies as well, including (but not limited to) HTTP,
HTML, CSS, and yes, JavaScript. Only IE supports client-side VBScript.

Clinton is also correct in pointing out that C# and JavaScript use the
same syntax, almost entirely. And he is correct in that if you learn C,
C++, C#, Java, or JavaScript, you have learned the syntax to all of
these. As a side note, you have also learned the syntax for DirectX
High-Level Shader Language (HLSL). So, that makes 6 languages for the
price of one. And that is a compelling reason, if one is learning this
stuff for the first time, to begin with C#.

Now, you are correct in that most ASP.Net developers currently came from
an ASP background, and are familiar with VBScript already, which makes it
easier for them to transition to VB.Net than C#. For these people, VB.Net
is often useful. But the OP is not a seasoned ASP developer. He is just
starting out. So, I have to agree with Clinton that, under the
circumstances, taking a good look at learning C# would make sense.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Software Composer
http://unclechutney.blogspot.com

A watched clock never boils.

"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <no************@planet.nlwrote in message
news:eV****************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>Clinton,
I am smiling now; I am glad that you think I am so young, so I leave you
in that delusion

You write about "pragmatism" as an English word and state a complete
message on it, maybe should you investigate something first before you
write it. The same is in fact for almost all what you wrote beside the
things about yourself, those I cannot check.

It is not only that I can speak with people in English, I can speak more
languages. That writing a language is much more difficult than speaking
or reading, is something people who are only able to speak the language
they learned at their mothers tit, is something those people don't
understand. They are often glad when they can speak 10 words in another
language.

But your message was funny to read and I am glad about your compliment
that my behaviour makes that you have the idea that I am so young.

That your tone from the message is in a way you never will see me done,
is something I forgive you. If that is the only language you learned
than you cannot help that.

:-)

Cor


"clintonG" <cs*********@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.comschre ef in
bericht news:e3**************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
Cor, Cor, Cor, you ignorant slut (that is a joke from an old TV show)

First of all, I have been writing code since the mid 1980s using BASIC,
Fortran, and C on DOS and Unix machines. I never really did well at
it -- very poorly in fact -- and I didn't take coding seriously until
I started getting serious about web development.

After about 10 years of administration experience and the explosion of
growth of the Amiga, Mac, DOS/Windows and Unix OS systems I was
supporting I was no longer able to cope. Since I was working as an
architect I decided to focus on the Windows platform because we used
DOS and Windows almost exclusively because CAD was the fundamental
application used by the AEC-CAFM disciplines. The Mac was used a lot in
those days too but most CAD vendors dumped the Mac because it was a dog
compared to the PC. Those were the days when a 10 MB hard drive cost
more than $3,000 US and a box of 3.5" floppies was more than $80 US.
You were probably still wearing diapers :-)

So when the web came around I started getting serious about coding.
Since I was a "Microsoft guy" I naturally used ASP/VBScript, JavaScript
and of course CSS which I note has syntax also derived from the legacy
syntax of the C programming language. I wrote all HTML and code by hand
because I had already learned the pitfalls of push-button monkey coding
and how it cripples a would-be web developer. I developed solutions for
both intranet and internet websites.

When the .NET Framework was released I started using VB.NET but then I
had what is called an epiphany (that word is in the dictionary). In
case you don't understand big words it means I pulled my head out of my
@ss, took a breath of fresh air and realized what a lame mistake I had
made because half of web development is done on the server and the
other half is done on the client and the half done on the client
requires the use of JavaScript which has been derived from C.

So I have to tell you Cor I enjoy arguing with you now and then but I
have to ask you to pull your head out of your @ss because you just
don't know what you're talking about when you criticize me.
Furthermore, you seem to have misunderstood what I said. I know you are
learning English and words and phrases may not make sense sometimes so
just remember, I still love you even though you have your head stuck up
your @ss but it really is much nicer out here where there is fresh air.
The fresh air helps people think clearly and understand why it is wiser
and more efficient to do web development using C#. So I'll repeat it
again...

Half of web development is done on the server using C# and the other
half is done on the client using JavaScript so why use different
languages with different syntax?

The English word that will help you understand is the word
"pragmatism." Although it has several meanings, when you look it up in
a dictionary and cross reference how the word is used by those speaking
and writing the contemporary form of the English language you will
understand why it is pragmatic to learn three languages for the price
of one. After all, isn't that why you are trying to learn English? So
you can speak and write with others in many other nations?

Just think how small your world would be if you could only speak and
write in Dutch (which I'm assuming is your native language). The same
pragmatic principle works with programming languages. It is pragmatic
to learn languages that derive from the legacy of the C programming
language because doing so allows a developer to speak and write to many
platforms.

Have a nice day over there...

<%= Clinton


"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <no************@planet.nlwrote in message
news:OE****************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl. ..
clinton,
>
You probably never have created as Webdevelopper an ASP page, which is
always loaded with VBS.
>
And because that this are Microsoft newsgroups and not Linux
newsgroups it the change that somebody who ask here a question is as
webdeveloper more familiar with ASP.
>
Beside that do I find it really a pity that you are using C# as
JavaScript. JavaScript is seldom OOP used, this can as well with C#,
however with that you are in my idea misusing the language.
>
(Almost everything you can do with C#, you can do with VB.Net by the
way especially when it is about webdevelopment, the last weeks are
there more enthusiast messages in the vb newsgroup from people using
VB.Net while using before other languages as C++ about the
possibilities and performance results with that language).
>
Just as answer on your reply. Beside the in my idea better VB.Net IDE,
I don't have any preference in both languages.
>
Cor
>
>
"clintonG" <cs*********@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.comschre ef in
bericht news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>If you're going to be a web developer learning C# is the better
>choice because the syntax is exactly the same as JavaScript and the
>grammar is similar. The same is true when comparing C# and the Java
>language. There's no such thing as a competent web developer that
>does not know how to code using JavaScript and there's nobody who can
>honestly say JavaScript is not required to master web development.
>>
>You can actually learn three languages for the price of one:
>JavaScript, C# and Java. Then you apply the language to the .NET
>Framework. Its true that the framework makes using different
>languages -- mostly equal to one another -- but the white lie from
>those that support VB is the fact that what they say is only
>partially true on the server because language features leap frog one
>another all the time. So at any given point in time VB may support
>more features and be optimized at a greater level than C# or C# may
>have an edge for some time and VB will lag behind -- BUT -- those
>concerns are only relevant for server-side code. Web developers also
>have to master cleint-side code and that requires learning
>JavaScript. In fact the entire web has for all intents and purposes
>become all about client-side JavaScript at this point in time.
>>
>The people who support VB or those that babble about the languages
>being the same keep forgetting to mention these facts.
>>
>Learn JavaScript and C#.
>>
><%= Clinton Gallagher
> NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
> URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
> MAP 43°2'17"N 88°2'37"W : 43°2'17"N 88°2'37"W
>>
>>
>>
>"esha" <es**@newsgroups.comwrote in message
>news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl. ..
>>I'm going to learn one of Framework based languages. I have a friend
>>who knows VB 2005 and he could help me with lessons. But I know from
>>other friends that C# is more popular and has higher demand.
>>My question - what to learn if I know in both VB and C# almost
>>nothing.
>>>
>>Thank you
>>>
>>Esha
>>>
>>
>>
>
>




Sep 23 '06 #33

Brian Gideon wrote:
Cor,

C# doesn't have an equivalent to VB.NET's Stop statement.
System.Debugger.Break does the same thing without polluting the
language with unneeded keywords.

Brian

Cor Ligthert [MVP] wrote:
So to be implecit, what is
the C# equality for the VB.Net stop command?
Wow - quite a lot of bigotry here!

I've worked in both languages - variants of C (yes, I'm ancient) and VB
since the 16 bit days (a la VB3).

Honestly, the entire discussion of porting to other platforms is
superfluous. 90% of the work done in the US today is targeted at a
specific platform and never migrates. Since VB syntax is more readily
understood than C# (to the untrained eye), it is slowly becoming the
language of choice for most new projects. Yes, you can make more $$$
writing C#, but those days are quickly drawing to a close as well since
VB is catching up in terms of breadth of functionality. Coupled with
the tight integration with T-SQL through the CLR in the latest set of
tools (SQL Sever 2005 and VS 2005) you can capture all three major
tiers with a single language.

If you want to learn a language, take the VB route. It will be less
painful for a non-programmer and more intuitive. There's no
substitute, though, for the "homework" - that is - the grasp of
process, before you jump into any serious programming mode. You can be
a savante in VB or C#, but if you don't understand patterns, OOP and
methodolgies, you won't write functionally efficient code.

Besides, if you go VB, you'll become a M$FT junkie more quickly...

Sep 24 '06 #34
milimol <jc******@jvc2.comwrote:

<snip>
Honestly, the entire discussion of porting to other platforms is
superfluous. 90% of the work done in the US today is targeted at a
specific platform and never migrates. Since VB syntax is more readily
understood than C# (to the untrained eye), it is slowly becoming the
language of choice for most new projects.
<snip>

Do you have any evidence for saying it's becoming the language of
choice for new projects? (I don't have any contrary evidence, but I'm
wary of asserions like this being made without evidence.)

Do you just mean projects which are being developed by relatively
junior developers? That's the only time when the "untrained eye" is
particularly relevant, after all.

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too
Sep 24 '06 #35
Jon,

Again you put a reply out of its context.

It was an answer on the message where in the main thing was.
>the same thing without polluting the language with unneeded keywords.
I think it is not up to a C# biased person, to tell what is wrong in VB.Net;
those who are using VB.Net do it themselves. VB.Net developers give seldom
comments on the C# language. VB.Net developers are mostly professionals
telling what is good or bad about their tool.

In my experience it are mostly beginners who tells shortcomings from other
tools.

I hope that you are able to understand what I want to say with this message.
If you don't understand it, than it is not a language problem, but something
else

Cor

"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <sk***@pobox.comschreef in bericht
news:MP************************@msnews.microsoft.c om...
milimol <jc******@jvc2.comwrote:

<snip>
>Honestly, the entire discussion of porting to other platforms is
superfluous. 90% of the work done in the US today is targeted at a
specific platform and never migrates. Since VB syntax is more readily
understood than C# (to the untrained eye), it is slowly becoming the
language of choice for most new projects.

<snip>

Do you have any evidence for saying it's becoming the language of
choice for new projects? (I don't have any contrary evidence, but I'm
wary of asserions like this being made without evidence.)

Do you just mean projects which are being developed by relatively
junior developers? That's the only time when the "untrained eye" is
particularly relevant, after all.

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

Sep 24 '06 #36
Since VB syntax is more readily
understood than C# (to the untrained eye), it is slowly becoming the
language of choice for most new projects.
I have to take issue with these 2 comments. First, the fact that a
programming language is more readily understood "to the untrained eye"
(which I do not disagree with) is no recommendation for its use. Instead, it
implies that the language enables "untrained" developers to produce
software. How can this be a good thing? From my experience, I have seen (and
worked on) quite a bit of poor VB and VB.Net code written by people who are
paid to do it. IMHO, one of the benefits of the C family of languages is
that the code looks more like what it is - logic and mathematics. It
requires and encourages a deeper understanding of both disciplines to use.
At any rate, it can hardly be said that this characteristic of the VB
language is beneficial. Note that physicians have not "dumbed down" the
terminology they use in their practice. Would you go to a physician who
couldn't understand Latin?

As for the assertion that "it is slowly becoming the language of choice for
most new projects," show us some statistical evidence to back up that claim.
Otherwise, it is simply rhetoric, and weakens your argument, since this is
not a political forum.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Software Composer
http://unclechutney.blogspot.com

A watched clock never boils.

"milimol" <jc******@jvc2.comwrote in message
news:11**********************@i3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
>
Brian Gideon wrote:
>Cor,

C# doesn't have an equivalent to VB.NET's Stop statement.
System.Debugger.Break does the same thing without polluting the
language with unneeded keywords.

Brian

Cor Ligthert [MVP] wrote:
So to be implecit, what is
the C# equality for the VB.Net stop command?

Wow - quite a lot of bigotry here!

I've worked in both languages - variants of C (yes, I'm ancient) and VB
since the 16 bit days (a la VB3).

Honestly, the entire discussion of porting to other platforms is
superfluous. 90% of the work done in the US today is targeted at a
specific platform and never migrates. Since VB syntax is more readily
understood than C# (to the untrained eye), it is slowly becoming the
language of choice for most new projects. Yes, you can make more $$$
writing C#, but those days are quickly drawing to a close as well since
VB is catching up in terms of breadth of functionality. Coupled with
the tight integration with T-SQL through the CLR in the latest set of
tools (SQL Sever 2005 and VS 2005) you can capture all three major
tiers with a single language.

If you want to learn a language, take the VB route. It will be less
painful for a non-programmer and more intuitive. There's no
substitute, though, for the "homework" - that is - the grasp of
process, before you jump into any serious programming mode. You can be
a savante in VB or C#, but if you don't understand patterns, OOP and
methodolgies, you won't write functionally efficient code.

Besides, if you go VB, you'll become a M$FT junkie more quickly...

Sep 24 '06 #37
milimol wrote:
Brian Gideon wrote:
Cor,

C# doesn't have an equivalent to VB.NET's Stop statement.
System.Debugger.Break does the same thing without polluting the
language with unneeded keywords.

Brian

Cor Ligthert [MVP] wrote:
So to be implecit, what is
the C# equality for the VB.Net stop command?

Wow - quite a lot of bigotry here!
I don't know, I guess you're referring to my assertion that a stop
statement is unnecessary, but I didn't see that anyone presented
contrary arguements for me to even be intolerant of. Do you think C#
would benefit from a stop statement similar to VB.NET? If so then tell
us why.

Brian

Sep 24 '06 #38
Cor Ligthert [MVP] <no************@planet.nlwrote:
Again you put a reply out of its context.

It was an answer on the message where in the main thing was.
the same thing without polluting the language with unneeded keywords.

I think it is not up to a C# biased person, to tell what is wrong in VB.Net;
I don't see why not.
those who are using VB.Net do it themselves. VB.Net developers give seldom
comments on the C# language.
I've seen plenty of criticism that way, actually. Sometimes it's valid,
sometimes it's not. The fact that it comes from a VB.NET developer is
irrelevant to me.
VB.Net developers are mostly professionals telling what is good or bad about
their tool.
So why shouldn't C# developers say what they don't like about a
language? I don't believe in stifling discussion - as far as I'm
concerned, a criticism's validity is based on its content, not who's
saying it.
In my experience it are mostly beginners who tells shortcomings from other
tools.
That's as may be, but it certainly doesn't mean that experienced people
shouldn't comment based on principles.
I hope that you are able to understand what I want to say with this message.
If you don't understand it, than it is not a language problem, but something
else
I think I understand you, but I disagree with you completely.

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too
Sep 24 '06 #39
Brian,

I was only curious if it was there, if it was, it could be handy; if it is
not there, it is not something I miss.

I get the idea that you (and mabye Jon because he did not answer) think that
I asked that to show that C# has something not that is VB.Net. That did
completely not come into my mind until now.

Cor

"Brian Gideon" <br*********@yahoo.comschreef in bericht
news:11*********************@e3g2000cwe.googlegrou ps.com...
milimol wrote:
>Brian Gideon wrote:
Cor,

C# doesn't have an equivalent to VB.NET's Stop statement.
System.Debugger.Break does the same thing without polluting the
language with unneeded keywords.

Brian

Cor Ligthert [MVP] wrote:
So to be implecit, what is
the C# equality for the VB.Net stop command?

Wow - quite a lot of bigotry here!

I don't know, I guess you're referring to my assertion that a stop
statement is unnecessary, but I didn't see that anyone presented
contrary arguements for me to even be intolerant of. Do you think C#
would benefit from a stop statement similar to VB.NET? If so then tell
us why.

Brian

Sep 25 '06 #40
Cor Ligthert [MVP] <no************@planet.nlwrote:
I was only curious if it was there, if it was, it could be handy; if it is
not there, it is not something I miss.

I get the idea that you (and mabye Jon because he did not answer) think that
I asked that to show that C# has something not that is VB.Net. That did
completely not come into my mind until now.
I didn't reply because I didn't see what your question had to do with
my previous statement.

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too
Sep 25 '06 #41

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