Java...it's so Nineties!

[John A. Bailo]

http://yahoo.businessweek.com/techno...213_042973.htm

"Reports by Evans Data Corp., which does annual surveys of the
activities of software developers, show Java use is slipping as LAMP and
Microsoft's (MSFT) .NET technology gain traction. In North America, the
percentage of developers who use Java as one of their principal
programming languages declined to 47.9 in Evans' fall survey, vs. 51.4%
in the fall of 2002. The same surveys show that while Java use is
climbing in Asia, it's on the decline in Europe.

Meanwhile, .NET usage increased to 54.1% from 40.3% in the same period
in North America, and exceeded Java use in Europe and Asia. In a
different survey series, the use of PHP in North America grew to 36.1%
this fall, from 26% in the fall of 2003. It grew almost as quickly in
Europe and Asia. "There's more competition out there," says Evans
President John Andrews. "These other technologies are catching hold.
They're biting away at [Java's] share."

[Lloyd Dupont]

Ho, no.....
My (unfair) competitive advantage is gnawed away by people realizing .NET
power ;-)

--
Regards,
Lloyd Dupont

NovaMind development team
NovaMind Software
Mind Mapping Software
<www.nova-mind.com>
"John A. Bailo" <ja*****@texeme.com> wrote in message
news:d6******************************@speakeasy.ne t...

http://yahoo.businessweek.com/techno...213_042973.htm

"Reports by Evans Data Corp., which does annual surveys of the activities
of software developers, show Java use is slipping as LAMP and Microsoft's
(MSFT) .NET technology gain traction. In North America, the percentage of
developers who use Java as one of their principal programming languages
declined to 47.9 in Evans' fall survey, vs. 51.4% in the fall of 2002. The
same surveys show that while Java use is climbing in Asia, it's on the
decline in Europe.

Meanwhile, .NET usage increased to 54.1% from 40.3% in the same period in
North America, and exceeded Java use in Europe and Asia. In a different
survey series, the use of PHP in North America grew to 36.1% this fall,
from 26% in the fall of 2003. It grew almost as quickly in Europe and
Asia. "There's more competition out there," says Evans President John
Andrews. "These other technologies are catching hold. They're biting away
at [Java's] share."

[baalbek]

John A. Bailo wrote:
< snip load of tripe >

Unix, its so Seventies!

Microsoft, its so Eighties!

Linux, its so Ninieties!

C++, its so Eighties!

Ruby, its so Nineties!

Shakespeare, its so Sixteen Centuryish!

Beethoven, its so Eighteen Centuryish!

Our daily bread, its so now!

Our last fall-out with our girl frien, its so yesterday!

[Viator]

The data you have produced is not strange because outsourcing is
shifting the focus towards asian countries.

Amit :-)

[BearItAll]

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:01:02 -0800, John A. Bailo wrote:

http://yahoo.businessweek.com/techno...213_042973.htm

"Reports by Evans Data Corp., which does annual surveys of the
activities of software developers, show Java use is slipping as LAMP and
Microsoft's (MSFT) .NET technology gain traction. In North America, the
percentage of developers who use Java as one of their principal
programming languages declined to 47.9 in Evans' fall survey, vs. 51.4%
in the fall of 2002. The same surveys show that while Java use is
climbing in Asia, it's on the decline in Europe.

Meanwhile, .NET usage increased to 54.1% from 40.3% in the same period
in North America, and exceeded Java use in Europe and Asia. In a
different survey series, the use of PHP in North America grew to 36.1%
this fall, from 26% in the fall of 2003. It grew almost as quickly in
Europe and Asia. "There's more competition out there," says Evans
President John Andrews. "These other technologies are catching hold.
They're biting away at [Java's] share."

I haven't used .NET for real except to try it out, but I can see it's
attraction for programmers that have only used the likes of visual basic
or C++ on a MS Windows platform. You can almost go ahead and write your
application ignorant of the actual Interface. I know the .NET engine had
security problems, I don't know if all of them have been solved.

However, php is free. Very easy to learn and write with and you don't end
up with bloated code in your web space. There are a lot of open source
modules, example code, tutorials. But more important is that when you look
arround the various php code sites what you see is the enthusiasm and
inovation that I thought the programming world had lost.

..NET may well be easy to use, but I think it is very unlikely to inspire
new generations of programmers to new heights simply because the
programmer is too far removed from the engine. PHP can and does inspire.
It isn't the end of all languages, it is simply that the programmer can
get closer to the engine, feel his/her way around, but with the helping
hand of pre-written modules and a good open communitee if you have
problems.

[Richard Grimes]

BearItAll wrote:

I know the
.NET engine had security problems, I don't know if all of them have
been solved.
cite?
However, php is free. Very easy to learn and write with and you don't
end up with bloated code in your web space. There are a lot of open
source modules, example code, tutorials. But more important is that
when you look arround the various php code sites what you see is the
enthusiasm and inovation that I thought the programming world had
lost.

Java is free, .NET is free, in both cases the SDK and compilers are free
too: you just pay for the development 'environment'. As we all know,
real developers do not need fancy RAD designers <g>.

Richard
--
http://www.grimes.demon.co.uk

[Alun Harford]

"John A. Bailo" <ja*****@texeme.com> wrote in message
news:d6******************************@speakeasy.ne t...

http://yahoo.businessweek.com/techno...213_042973.htm

"Reports by Evans Data Corp., which does annual surveys of the activities
of software developers, show Java use is slipping as LAMP and Microsoft's
(MSFT) .NET technology gain traction. In North America, the percentage of
developers who use Java as one of their principal programming languages
declined to 47.9 in Evans' fall survey, vs. 51.4% in the fall of 2002. The
same surveys show that while Java use is climbing in Asia, it's on the
decline in Europe.

Meanwhile, .NET usage increased to 54.1% from 40.3% in the same period in
North America, and exceeded Java use in Europe and Asia.

Java is one of my principle programming languages.
Therefore I know J#, as does every other Java developer on the planet
(although some don't know it yet).

Alun Harford

(I also know C#, but that's beside the point)

[Luc The Perverse]

"Richard Grimes" <ri******@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:uE*************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

BearItAll wrote:

I know the
.NET engine had security problems, I don't know if all of them have
been solved.

cite?

However, php is free. Very easy to learn and write with and you don't
end up with bloated code in your web space. There are a lot of open
source modules, example code, tutorials. But more important is that
when you look arround the various php code sites what you see is the
enthusiasm and inovation that I thought the programming world had
lost.

Java is free, .NET is free, in both cases the SDK and compilers are free
too: you just pay for the development 'environment'. As we all know, real
developers do not need fancy RAD designers <g>.

Ah but suddenly .NET loses its appeal when it doesn't have it's nifty GUI -
because the appeal has always been having the code made for you :)

--
LTP

:)

[thad01]

In comp.os.linux.advocacy BearItAll <sp**@rassler.co.uk> wrote:

I haven't used .NET for real except to try it out, but I can see it's
attraction for programmers that have only used the likes of visual basic
or C++ on a MS Windows platform. You can almost go ahead and write your
application ignorant of the actual Interface. I know the .NET engine had
security problems, I don't know if all of them have been solved.

Most of my consulting work is in C/C++ and Java, but I've tried to
stay current with .Net just to keep my skill set diverse. The
expansion of .Net is hardly a surprise, MS has pulled pretty much
all of their older development technologies into the .Net tent.
Used to be a VB programmer? Now you're a VB.Net programmer. A
good strategy actually, and it sets them up for an easier
transition for when the market forces them to pry their
application suite off of Windows and go platform-independent.

As for .Net passing Java in popularity... Dice still shows about
20 percent more Java jobs than .Net jobs, so I'm not so certain
those claims hold water.

Cheers,

Thad

[The Ghost In The Machine]

In comp.os.linux.advocacy, th****@tux.glaci.remove-this.com
<th****@tux.glaci.remove-this.com>
wrote
on Thu, 15 Dec 2005 03:03:49 +0000 (UTC)
<dn**********@tux.glaci.com>:

In comp.os.linux.advocacy BearItAll <sp**@rassler.co.uk> wrote:

I haven't used .NET for real except to try it out, but I can see it's
attraction for programmers that have only used the likes of visual basic
or C++ on a MS Windows platform. You can almost go ahead and write your
application ignorant of the actual Interface. I know the .NET engine had
security problems, I don't know if all of them have been solved.
Most of my consulting work is in C/C++ and Java, but I've tried to
stay current with .Net just to keep my skill set diverse. The
expansion of .Net is hardly a surprise, MS has pulled pretty much
all of their older development technologies into the .Net tent.
Used to be a VB programmer? Now you're a VB.Net programmer. A
good strategy actually, and it sets them up for an easier
transition for when the market forces them to pry their
application suite off of Windows and go platform-independent.

As for .Net passing Java in popularity... Dice still shows about
20 percent more Java jobs than .Net jobs, so I'm not so certain
those claims hold water.

That means that the job breakdown is 54.5% Java, 45.5% .NET.
Remember, however, that .NET isn't nearly as old as Java; it
might be 3-4 years old at the very most.

Therefore it's catching up rather fast. Java is The Establishment,
..NET the underdog (despite .NET being developed by a certain
monopoly or near-monopoly). And then there's LAMP and small
custom C/C++ solutions like dhttp.

As for security problems in .NET -- I suspect that's par for the course.
:-/

Cheers,

Thad

--
#191, ew****@earthlink.net
It's still legal to go .sigless.

[thad01]

In comp.os.linux.advocacy The Ghost In The Machine <ew***@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:

That means that the job breakdown is 54.5% Java, 45.5% .NET.
Remember, however, that .NET isn't nearly as old as Java; it
might be 3-4 years old at the very most.
I'm also not sure how useful a comparison it is, as .Net
encompasses multiple languages and tools, while Java is
arguably a single language. Nevertheless, it there is
certainly plenty of work in both camps, and either or both
is a good thing to have in your bag of tricks.
Therefore it's catching up rather fast. Java is The Establishment,
.NET the underdog (despite .NET being developed by a certain
monopoly or near-monopoly). And then there's LAMP and small
custom C/C++ solutions like dhttp.

The multi-language nature of .Net and Microsoft's desktop share
will likely give it the edge in raw deployment numbers, but I
expect Java will hold the lead in the big SOA / middle tier
projects for quite some time. MS will lead on the front end
and Java on the back end. You will probably find plenty of
environments that will contain an mix of both for the
foreseeable future.

Cheers,

Thad

[John A. Bailo]

th****@tux.glaci.remove-this.com wrote:

The multi-language nature of .Net and Microsoft's desktop share
will likely give it the edge in raw deployment numbers, but I
expect Java will hold the lead in the big SOA / middle tier
projects for quite some time. MS will lead on the front end
and Java on the back end. You will probably find plenty of
environments that will contain an mix of both for the
foreseeable future.

Very insightful interpretation...one that I will accept.

[chrisv]

baalbek wrote:

John A. Bailo wrote:
< snip load of tripe >

Don't feed the Bailo troll.

[The Ghost In The Machine]

In comp.os.linux.advocacy, John A. Bailo
<ja*****@texeme.com>
wrote
on Thu, 15 Dec 2005 10:55:20 -0800
<43**************@texeme.com>:

th****@tux.glaci.remove-this.com wrote:

The multi-language nature of .Net and Microsoft's desktop share
will likely give it the edge in raw deployment numbers, but I
expect Java will hold the lead in the big SOA / middle tier
projects for quite some time. MS will lead on the front end
and Java on the back end. You will probably find plenty of
environments that will contain an mix of both for the
foreseeable future.

Very insightful interpretation...one that I will accept.

Ditto here. :-) This is why SOAP and other such efforts
will be useful, since both Java and .NET support it.

--
#191, ew****@earthlink.net
It's still legal to go .sigless.

[Cos]

Well, in case of Java - you don't need to pay a dime even for
development environment:
- there's NetBeans
- there's Java Stidio Enterprise
- there's Java Creator for Web apps development
These are available from Sun with no charge. I believe others do
similar stuff.

So, my point is that Java development is getting bigger, especially
with the open source movement, accepted by big folks developing Java to
gain some market share :-)

Cos