360 .NET

[John Bailo]

Can I develop in .NET for the Xbox 360 computer?

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

John Bailo <ja*****@texeme.com> wrote:

Can I develop in .NET for the Xbox 360 computer?

Certainly not in a supported way - and I'd very much doubt that you'd
be able to find a version of .NET compiled for that architecture. If
people put Linux on hacked machines, then maybe Mono will work - but I
really wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

[John Bailo]

Jon Skeet [C# MVP] wrote:

John Bailo <ja*****@texeme.com> wrote:

Can I develop in .NET for the Xbox 360 computer?

Certainly not in a supported way - and I'd very much doubt that you'd
be able to find a version of .NET compiled for that architecture. If
people put Linux on hacked machines, then maybe Mono will work - but I
really wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

That's sort of sad, since .NET is supposed to be this *universal*
development platform and they're always giving out Xbox's at all these
Microsoft Events.

Yet, it's completely unintegrated into their .NET /Framework/

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

John Bailo <ja*****@texeme.com> wrote:

That's sort of sad, since .NET is supposed to be this *universal*
development platform and they're always giving out Xbox's at all these
Microsoft Events.

Yet, it's completely unintegrated into their .NET /Framework/

It's not meant to be totally universal - I don't believe they're
suggesting that games developers should be developing in .NET for the
game itself (quite possibly the game *server*, but that's a different
matter). They're also not encouraging anyone other than games
developers to develop on XBox 360, as far as I've seen.

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

[John Bailo]

Jon Skeet [C# MVP] wrote:

It's not meant to be totally universal - I don't believe they're
suggesting that games developers should be developing in .NET for the
game itself (quite possibly the game *server*, but that's a different
matter). They're also not encouraging anyone other than games
developers to develop on XBox 360, as far as I've seen.

So in other words, after telling us about the beauty of managed code,
etc, etc, and how .NET is 'just as fast as c++' they restict access to
their most premier platform?

[mphacker]

Under the covers, yes the xbox 360 is a computer but it is not designed
or marketed to be allow just anyone to develop software for it. It is
a game console just like the PS2 or Nintendo. Only Microsoft
authorized and licensed game developers have access to the development
platform.

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

John Bailo <ja*****@texeme.com> wrote:

Jon Skeet [C# MVP] wrote:

It's not meant to be totally universal - I don't believe they're
suggesting that games developers should be developing in .NET for the
game itself (quite possibly the game *server*, but that's a different
matter). They're also not encouraging anyone other than games
developers to develop on XBox 360, as far as I've seen.

So in other words, after telling us about the beauty of managed code,
etc, etc, and how .NET is 'just as fast as c++' they restict access to
their most premier platform?

Yes, just as they've restricted access to the XBox itself. You can't
get legitimate consumer dev kits for most consoles - the PS2 is the
exception, really.

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

[John Bailo]

mphacker wrote:

Under the covers, yes the xbox 360 is a computer but it is not designed
or marketed to be allow just anyone to develop software for it. It is
a game console just like the PS2 or Nintendo. Only Microsoft
authorized and licensed game developers have access to the development
platform.

Can 'licensed game developers' use .NET to program games for it?

[John Bailo]

Jon Skeet [C# MVP] wrote:

Yes, just as they've restricted access to the XBox itself. You can't
get legitimate consumer dev kits for most consoles - the PS2 is the
exception, really.

Well, the PS/3 will at least run Linux, so I can develop with
Eclipse/Java on it.

Sounds like going the all Microsoft route is a dead end if they won't
share the Xbox with .NET developers.

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

John Bailo <ja*****@texeme.com> wrote:

Can 'licensed game developers' use .NET to program games for it?

I really don't know, I'm afraid - but I would be slightly surprised if
they'd bothered to port the CLR at this point.

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

John Bailo <ja*****@texeme.com> wrote:

Well, the PS/3 will at least run Linux, so I can develop with
Eclipse/Java on it.
Only if Java and SWT have been ported to Cell.
Sounds like going the all Microsoft route is a dead end if they won't
share the Xbox with .NET developers.

Only if you're absolutely fixated on developing on a games console.

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

[Miha Markic [MVP C#]]

Hi,

"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <sk***@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:MP************************@msnews.microsoft.c om...

John Bailo <ja*****@texeme.com> wrote:

Can 'licensed game developers' use .NET to program games for it?

I really don't know, I'm afraid - but I would be slightly surprised if
they'd bothered to port the CLR at this point.

Why's that?
..net is just fine for game development, too - just see the managed DirectX.
And it would cut the development time while sacrificing few % in performance
terms.

--
Miha Markic [MVP C#]
RightHand .NET consulting & development www.rthand.com
Blog: http://cs.rthand.com/blogs/blog_with_righthand/

[Cor Ligthert [MVP]]

John,

Can I develop in .NET for the Xbox 360 computer?

In my opinion do you have a strong point with this and are doing very well
for Microsoft by bringing this to the attention.

Just my personal opinion.

Cor

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

<"Miha Markic [MVP C#]" <miha at rthand com>> wrote:

John Bailo <ja*****@texeme.com> wrote:

Can 'licensed game developers' use .NET to program games for it?

I really don't know, I'm afraid - but I would be slightly surprised if
they'd bothered to port the CLR at this point.

Why's that?
.net is just fine for game development, too - just see the managed DirectX.
And it would cut the development time while sacrificing few % in performance
terms.

I'd be very surprised if the CLR gained much ground in the game dev
world, where people tend to want every ounce of performance they can
get.

Put it this way - .NET's been available for quite a while on Windows.
What proportion of games do you think use significant amounts of .NET
code (on the client)?

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

Cor Ligthert [MVP] <no************@planet.nl> wrote:

Can I develop in .NET for the Xbox 360 computer?

In my opinion do you have a strong point with this and are doing very well
for Microsoft by bringing this to the attention.

Why? MS doesn't *want* consumers to be able to develop on the XBox 360,
so why would they not only open up the box but port the CLR to a
different architecture?

If MS wanted consumers developing apps on their consoles, they wouldn't
have done their best to stop people doing so on the current generation,
would they?

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

[Cor Ligthert [MVP]]

Jon,

I can not believe that Microsoft takes the approach that the market can not
create easily software for their hardware. That is proven the route for the
losers and the basis of the success from Microsoft on IBM PC computers. (And
in a way by instance the disaster of OS/2 systems, although it was not
blocked there however the wall was to high to do it).

However I can be wrong.

Cor

"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <sk***@pobox.com> schreef in bericht
news:MP************************@msnews.microsoft.c om...

Cor Ligthert [MVP] <no************@planet.nl> wrote:

> Can I develop in .NET for the Xbox 360 computer?

In my opinion do you have a strong point with this and are doing very
well
for Microsoft by bringing this to the attention.

Why? MS doesn't *want* consumers to be able to develop on the XBox 360,
so why would they not only open up the box but port the CLR to a
different architecture?

If MS wanted consumers developing apps on their consoles, they wouldn't
have done their best to stop people doing so on the current generation,
would they?

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

Cor Ligthert [MVP] <no************@planet.nl> wrote:

I can not believe that Microsoft takes the approach that the market can not
create easily software for their hardware. That is proven the route for the
losers and the basis of the success from Microsoft on IBM PC computers. (And
in a way by instance the disaster of OS/2 systems, although it was not
blocked there however the wall was to high to do it).

OS/2 was a general purpose operating system, however. A games console
is meant to be for playing games, and that's practically it. Very few
games consoles manufacturers historically have allowed users to write
their own programs. (Most have been cracked by enthusiasts, but that's
not the same as the manufacturer encouraging it.)

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

[Miha Markic [MVP C#]]

Why's that?
.net is just fine for game development, too - just see the managed
DirectX.
And it would cut the development time while sacrificing few % in
performance
terms.

I'd be very surprised if the CLR gained much ground in the game dev
world, where people tend to want every ounce of performance they can
get.

Put it this way - .NET's been available for quite a while on Windows.
What proportion of games do you think use significant amounts of .NET
code (on the client)?

Yes, I know. But still - building with .net isn't a big performance hit
afterall - there was doom or something ported to managed code and the
penality was like 5%.
I would trade those 5% for much shorter development. Perhaps it is just me.
Anyway, I can see your point (and expected such an answer :-))

--
Miha Markic [MVP C#]
RightHand .NET consulting & development www.rthand.com
Blog: http://cs.rthand.com/blogs/blog_with_righthand/

[Cor Ligthert [MVP]]

Jon,

OS/2 was a general purpose operating system, however. A games console
is meant to be for playing games, and that's practically it. Very few
games consoles manufacturers historically have allowed users to write
their own programs. (Most have been cracked by enthusiasts, but that's
not the same as the manufacturer encouraging it.)

I think that you can be right, do you think that we can be the successors
from Allen and Gates by creating an open (I did not say free) game system.

:-)

Cor

[Miha Markic [MVP C#]]

Hi Cor,

"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <no************@planet.nl> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...

Jon,

OS/2 was a general purpose operating system, however. A games console
is meant to be for playing games, and that's practically it. Very few
games consoles manufacturers historically have allowed users to write
their own programs. (Most have been cracked by enthusiasts, but that's
not the same as the manufacturer encouraging it.)

I think that you can be right, do you think that we can be the successors
from Allen and Gates by creating an open (I did not say free) game system.

Sure, we'll just have to invest $4 billion - what do you say, $1B per each?
:-P

--
Miha Markic [MVP C#]
RightHand .NET consulting & development www.rthand.com
Blog: http://cs.rthand.com/blogs/blog_with_righthand/