VB vs C#

[Rena]

Hi all,

I really would like to know the managment of MS, will put more effort on
either VB or C#, because I believe there are not fair balance in the world.
I used to VB 6.0, and now working on VB .Net. I wonder if MS will now shift
most of their effort from VB to C#, or would like to retain them
in order to keep it as competive as they were during vb 5.0, 6.0 ages...

I donot wanna know it too late..... really hope some internal staff can
share their idea, thought and direction about it.

thx a lot,
Rena.

[Patrice]

Not an internal team but from what I've heard and seen so far they evolve
both.

Try :
http://msdn.microsoft.com/vbasic/whi...05_preview.asp
for Visual Basic 2005 enhancements...

In some cases they tend to favor C# in code samples (such as in the DirectX
SDK AFAIK) but on the other hand VB.NET could be favored in applications
such as Office as a replacement for VBA...

Patrice

--

"Rena" <Re**@mail.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:ef**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

Hi all,

I really would like to know the managment of MS, will put more effort on either VB or C#, because I believe there are not fair balance in the world. I used to VB 6.0, and now working on VB .Net. I wonder if MS will now shift most of their effort from VB to C#, or would like to retain them
in order to keep it as competive as they were during vb 5.0, 6.0 ages...

I donot wanna know it too late..... really hope some internal staff can share their idea, thought and direction about it.

thx a lot,
Rena.

[Peter van der Goes]

"Rena" <Re**@mail.com> wrote in message
news:ef**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

Hi all,

I really would like to know the managment of MS, will put more effort
on
either VB or C#, because I believe there are not fair balance in the
world.
I used to VB 6.0, and now working on VB .Net. I wonder if MS will now
shift
most of their effort from VB to C#, or would like to retain them
in order to keep it as competive as they were during vb 5.0, 6.0 ages...

I donot wanna know it too late..... really hope some internal staff can
share their idea, thought and direction about it.

thx a lot,
Rena.

I'm sure you'll get lots of opinions here in a public newsgroup, but I
really doubt that you'll get anything definitive from a Microsoft
representative. There are probably thousands of reasons why, but I'll throw
one out: Nondisclosure Agreements.
I, however, have a question for you. As the largest part of the learning
curve is not a given language, but .NET itself, why would this worry you? By
using VB.NET, you're learning the framework and that knowledge is applicable
to any language supported by .NET.
Start studying C# (and maybe C++ as well) now, just to become more
versatile, and you'll be covered for any future situation.
Just my $.02 worth...

--
Peter [MVP Visual Developer]
Jack of all trades, master of none.

[Rena]

Hi Patrice,
Yup, "tend to favor C# in code samples " that's also what i saw. And
although they keep to saying that choosing VB / C# are the same, as they are
compatable year before.
There are things C# can do but VB don't and visa versa. Really don't know
what MS / Bill's are thinking............

Rena.
"Patrice" <no****@nowhere.com> ¦b¶l¥ó
news:OB**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl ¤¤¼¶¼g...

Not an internal team but from what I've heard and seen so far they evolve
both.

Try :
http://msdn.microsoft.com/vbasic/whi...05_preview.asp for Visual Basic 2005 enhancements...

In some cases they tend to favor C# in code samples (such as in the DirectX SDK AFAIK) but on the other hand VB.NET could be favored in applications
such as Office as a replacement for VBA...

Patrice

--

"Rena" <Re**@mail.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:ef**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

Hi all,

I really would like to know the managment of MS, will put more

effort on

either VB or C#, because I believe there are not fair balance in the

world.

I used to VB 6.0, and now working on VB .Net. I wonder if MS will now

shift

most of their effort from VB to C#, or would like to retain them
in order to keep it as competive as they were during vb 5.0, 6.0 ages...

I donot wanna know it too late..... really hope some internal staff

can

share their idea, thought and direction about it.

thx a lot,
Rena.

[Rena]

Hi Peter,
Thx for your sharing.
it is possible if u are managing a team to know both VB / C#, but not as
productive / indepth as having a team know either one given
the same among of time right? If .net really is a framework that can
function 100% the same between VB & C#, I won't worry about
which one go for....or even ignore it. So it is not meaningless to decide
which to go b4 too late.
Framework, support, new component / template will affect the productivities,
and what i worry is that whether MS will bias either VB
or C#...as I can see when C# first come, lot of effort are given on it.

Rena.

"Peter van der Goes" <p_**********@toadstool.u> ¦b¶l¥ó
news:eR**************@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl ¤¤¼¶¼g...

"Rena" <Re**@mail.com> wrote in message
news:ef**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

Hi all,

I really would like to know the managment of MS, will put more effort
on
either VB or C#, because I believe there are not fair balance in the
world.
I used to VB 6.0, and now working on VB .Net. I wonder if MS will now
shift
most of their effort from VB to C#, or would like to retain them
in order to keep it as competive as they were during vb 5.0, 6.0 ages...

I donot wanna know it too late..... really hope some internal staff can share their idea, thought and direction about it.

thx a lot,
Rena.

I'm sure you'll get lots of opinions here in a public newsgroup, but I
really doubt that you'll get anything definitive from a Microsoft
representative. There are probably thousands of reasons why, but I'll

throw one out: Nondisclosure Agreements.
I, however, have a question for you. As the largest part of the learning
curve is not a given language, but .NET itself, why would this worry you? By using VB.NET, you're learning the framework and that knowledge is applicable to any language supported by .NET.
Start studying C# (and maybe C++ as well) now, just to become more
versatile, and you'll be covered for any future situation.
Just my $.02 worth...

--
Peter [MVP Visual Developer]
Jack of all trades, master of none.

[Patrice]

You'll notice that in most cases features unique to a .NET language are
largely based IMO on "tradition" (ie easy late bouding in VB.NET, pointers
in C# etc...). Anyway this is the just the "glue" for the Framework.
Ultimately they both compile to the same MSIL language and overall they are
quite similar...

I even wonder if you won't be able to mix them in a single project in
VS.NET 2005 (and it could perhaps be possible now with the command line
compiler ?). Also keep in mind that IMO your investment is not really in the
language you use but rather in what you make it do (and now you make them do
things in a very similar manner as they are both using the same class
library).

Frankly I wouldn't worry much about this until quantic computing or whatever
the next best thing comes out....

Pick just the one you are most comfortable with. Get familiar with the other
one and you should pretty much cover it...

Patrice

--

"Rena" <Re**@mail.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:OL**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...

Hi Patrice,
Yup, "tend to favor C# in code samples " that's also what i saw. And
although they keep to saying that choosing VB / C# are the same, as they are compatable year before.
There are things C# can do but VB don't and visa versa. Really don't know
what MS / Bill's are thinking............

Rena.
"Patrice" <no****@nowhere.com> ¦b¶l¥ó
news:OB**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl ¤¤¼¶¼g...

Not an internal team but from what I've heard and seen so far they evolve both.

Try :

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vbasic/whi...05_preview.asp

for Visual Basic 2005 enhancements...

In some cases they tend to favor C# in code samples (such as in the

DirectX

SDK AFAIK) but on the other hand VB.NET could be favored in applications
such as Office as a replacement for VBA...

Patrice

--

"Rena" <Re**@mail.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:ef**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

Hi all,

I really would like to know the managment of MS, will put more effort

on

either VB or C#, because I believe there are not fair balance in the

world.

I used to VB 6.0, and now working on VB .Net. I wonder if MS will now

shift

most of their effort from VB to C#, or would like to retain them
in order to keep it as competive as they were during vb 5.0, 6.0 ages...
I donot wanna know it too late..... really hope some internal

staff can

share their idea, thought and direction about it.

thx a lot,
Rena.

[Gerry Hickman]

Rena wrote:

I really would like to know the managment of MS, will put more effort on
either VB or C#,

I don't know what MS will do, but C# is the language of the future. It's
been rubber stamped by the ECMA, is more closely related to PERL and
JScript than VB, and can work outside the Microsoft framework.

I'm glad I chose C# three years ago because I won't need to "migrate"
for a long time!

--
Gerry Hickman (London UK)

[CMM]

You say "there are things C# can do but VB don't and visa versa." Quite
frankly... in terms of "doing"... I can't think of anything that one does
that the other doesn't.

Their differences are mainly in "how" you do things. VB has declarative
event handling (Private Myproc() Handles Object.Someevent), while delegates
abound in C#. VB can have loose typeing (which no good VB developer would
ever use... Option Strict should always be on), while C# has some neat GUI
tools to create Methods and Properties (which VB6 had but VB.NET strangely
doesn't!!!)

Although I like C#, I find VB is a lot more productive... mainly in the way
events are handled but also because the Microsoft.VisualBasic namespace
contains great wrappers around some really annoying non-RAD things in the
..NET. For instance doing MyStr.Substring() and specifying a value bigger than
the string results in a exception! The classic BASIC Left() function is smart
enough not to.

If you like the fact that using DateDiff() (in the VisualBasic namespace) is
one line of code while using DateSpan objects arithmatic can be several lines
of code, then VB is for you.

"Rena" wrote:

Hi Patrice,
Yup, "tend to favor C# in code samples " that's also what i saw. And
although they keep to saying that choosing VB / C# are the same, as they are
compatable year before.
There are things C# can do but VB don't and visa versa. Really don't know
what MS / Bill's are thinking............

Rena.
"Patrice" <no****@nowhere.com> ¦b¶l¥ó
news:OB**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl ¤¤¼¶¼g...

Not an internal team but from what I've heard and seen so far they evolve
both.

Try :

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vbasic/whi...05_preview.asp

for Visual Basic 2005 enhancements...

In some cases they tend to favor C# in code samples (such as in the

DirectX

SDK AFAIK) but on the other hand VB.NET could be favored in applications
such as Office as a replacement for VBA...

Patrice

--

"Rena" <Re**@mail.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:ef**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

Hi all,

I really would like to know the managment of MS, will put more

effort

on

either VB or C#, because I believe there are not fair balance in the

world.

I used to VB 6.0, and now working on VB .Net. I wonder if MS will now

shift

most of their effort from VB to C#, or would like to retain them
in order to keep it as competive as they were during vb 5.0, 6.0 ages...

I donot wanna know it too late..... really hope some internal staff

can

share their idea, thought and direction about it.

thx a lot,
Rena.

[CMM]

Aren't all those things true of Java as well? Is that "the language" of the
future?

"Gerry Hickman" wrote:

Rena wrote:

I really would like to know the managment of MS, will put more effort on
either VB or C#,

I don't know what MS will do, but C# is the language of the future. It's
been rubber stamped by the ECMA, is more closely related to PERL and
JScript than VB, and can work outside the Microsoft framework.

I'm glad I chose C# three years ago because I won't need to "migrate"
for a long time!

--
Gerry Hickman (London UK)

[Peter van der Goes]

"Rena" <Re**@mail.com> wrote in message
news:OY**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

Hi Peter,
Thx for your sharing.
it is possible if u are managing a team to know both VB / C#, but not as
productive / indepth as having a team know either one given
the same among of time right? If .net really is a framework that can
function 100% the same between VB & C#, I won't worry about
which one go for....or even ignore it. So it is not meaningless to decide
which to go b4 too late.
Framework, support, new component / template will affect the
productivities,
and what i worry is that whether MS will bias either VB
or C#...as I can see when C# first come, lot of effort are given on it.

Rena.

My *opinion* is that targeting a development group (as you seem to indicate)
as a one language group is shortsighted and unnecessarily restrictive. As
somebody else pointed out in this thread, it's hard to point out anything VB
can do that C# cannot (or vice-versa) from a practical standpoint.
Encouraging developers to be versatile is good for them and good for the
organization for which they work.

--
Peter [MVP Visual Developer]
Jack of all trades, master of none.

[Sean Hederman]

"CMM" <CM*@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:A2**********************************@microsof t.com...

Aren't all those things true of Java as well? Is that "the language" of
the
future?
Nope, Java is a proprietary language, whilst C# is not controlled by
Microsoft (although AFAIK they do chair the ECMA C# committee).
"Gerry Hickman" wrote:

Rena wrote:

> I really would like to know the managment of MS, will put more
> effort on
> either VB or C#,

I don't know what MS will do, but C# is the language of the future. It's
been rubber stamped by the ECMA, is more closely related to PERL and
JScript than VB, and can work outside the Microsoft framework.

I'm glad I chose C# three years ago because I won't need to "migrate"
for a long time!

--
Gerry Hickman (London UK)

[Sean Hederman]

"Peter van der Goes" <p_**********@toadstool.u> wrote in message
news:%2****************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

"Rena" <Re**@mail.com> wrote in message
news:OY**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

Hi Peter,
Thx for your sharing.
it is possible if u are managing a team to know both VB / C#, but not as
productive / indepth as having a team know either one given
the same among of time right? If .net really is a framework that can
function 100% the same between VB & C#, I won't worry about
which one go for....or even ignore it. So it is not meaningless to decide
which to go b4 too late.
Framework, support, new component / template will affect the
productivities,
and what i worry is that whether MS will bias either VB
or C#...as I can see when C# first come, lot of effort are given on it.

Rena.
My *opinion* is that targeting a development group (as you seem to
indicate) as a one language group is shortsighted and unnecessarily
restrictive. As somebody else pointed out in this thread, it's hard to
point out anything VB can do that C# cannot (or vice-versa) from a
practical standpoint.
Encouraging developers to be versatile is good for them and good for the
organization for which they work.

I agree. Whilst we generally work in C#, sometimes we use VB.NET, largely
when interfacing with VB6 components. It makes dealing with things like
optional parameters *so* much easier.
--
Peter [MVP Visual Developer]
Jack of all trades, master of none.

[Sean Hederman]

"CMM" <CM*@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:A8**********************************@microsof t.com...

You say "there are things C# can do but VB don't and visa versa." Quite
frankly... in terms of "doing"... I can't think of anything that one does
that the other doesn't.
C#: unsafe code blocks, checked/unchecked, operator overloading, using
statement, explicit interface implementation, unsigned types
VB.NET: optional parameters, named indexers, Catch/When, With statement,
implement interface members with method of different names
Their differences are mainly in "how" you do things. VB has declarative
event handling (Private Myproc() Handles Object.Someevent), while
delegates
abound in C#. VB can have loose typeing (which no good VB developer would
ever use... Option Strict should always be on), while C# has some neat GUI
tools to create Methods and Properties (which VB6 had but VB.NET strangely
doesn't!!!)

Although I like C#, I find VB is a lot more productive... mainly in the
way
events are handled but also because the Microsoft.VisualBasic namespace
contains great wrappers around some really annoying non-RAD things in the
.NET. For instance doing MyStr.Substring() and specifying a value bigger
than
the string results in a exception! The classic BASIC Left() function is
smart
enough not to.

If you like the fact that using DateDiff() (in the VisualBasic namespace)
is
one line of code while using DateSpan objects arithmatic can be several
lines
of code, then VB is for you.

"Rena" wrote:

Hi Patrice,
Yup, "tend to favor C# in code samples " that's also what i saw. And
although they keep to saying that choosing VB / C# are the same, as they
are
compatable year before.
There are things C# can do but VB don't and visa versa. Really don't know
what MS / Bill's are thinking............

Rena.
"Patrice" <no****@nowhere.com> ¦b¶l¥ó
news:OB**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl ¤¤¼¶¼g...

> Not an internal team but from what I've heard and seen so far they
> evolve
> both.
>
> Try :
>

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vbasic/whi...05_preview.asp

> for Visual Basic 2005 enhancements...
>
> In some cases they tend to favor C# in code samples (such as in the

DirectX

> SDK AFAIK) but on the other hand VB.NET could be favored in
> applications
> such as Office as a replacement for VBA...
>
> Patrice
>
> --
>
> "Rena" <Re**@mail.com> a écrit dans le message de
> news:ef**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I really would like to know the managment of MS, will put more

effort

> on
> > either VB or C#, because I believe there are not fair balance in the
> world.
> > I used to VB 6.0, and now working on VB .Net. I wonder if MS will now
> shift
> > most of their effort from VB to C#, or would like to retain them
> > in order to keep it as competive as they were during vb 5.0, 6.0
> > ages...
> >
> > I donot wanna know it too late..... really hope some internal
> > staff
> can
> > share their idea, thought and direction about it.
> >
> > thx a lot,
> > Rena.
> >
> >
>
>

[Gerry Hickman]

Hi CMM,

Aren't all those things true of Java as well? Is that "the language" of the
future?
Absolutely! It's just the discussion seemed to be more in the context of
what's included in Microsoft's .NET

After many years of dismissing Java, it now seems I was WRONG to write
it off. Arrhhhhh!
"Gerry Hickman" wrote:

Rena wrote:

I really would like to know the managment of MS, will put more effort on
either VB or C#,

I don't know what MS will do, but C# is the language of the future. It's
been rubber stamped by the ECMA, is more closely related to PERL and
JScript than VB, and can work outside the Microsoft framework.

I'm glad I chose C# three years ago because I won't need to "migrate"
for a long time!

--
Gerry Hickman (London UK)

--
Gerry Hickman (London UK)

[Gerry Hickman]

Peter van der Goes wrote:

can do that C# cannot (or vice-versa) from a practical standpoint.
Encouraging developers to be versatile is good for them and good for the
organization for which they work.

Yes, but as we discussed earlier, it's not about making personal
choices; it's about making the RIGHT choice for the big business of
tomorrow. That means making sure you've got standards in place, and that
you choose the language which is going to get the best support from the
vendor (C# in this case), and also that the language you choose is going
to available in the job seeker pool of tomorrow.

One of the biggest problems with VB vs C# right now, is that all the
experts choose C# and all the students/beginners choose VB. If you're in
world of big bucks enterprise computing, the choice is obvious.

You only have to look back at VB, VBScript and VBA to see how it hasn't
kept pace with open standards. C++, JScript and C# have all survived the
test of time, but there's simply no point in flogging the dead VB horse.

I'm really glad I never used VB6. I chose W3C DOM and PERL/JScript
instead, and while all my VB friends are busy trying to "migrate", I'm
just sitting back and relaxing.

--
Gerry Hickman (London UK)

[CMM]

Great examples of some key differences... but they still fall under what I
categorized as "how." For instance, Optional Parameters can be mimicked in C#
using carefully crafted overloaded methods. What I meant by "*what* you can
do" is for example: VB6 inability to create a standard Win32 library under
any circumstance... or maybe both C# and VB.NET's inability to expose and
share SingleInstance classes from an exe (like ol' COM EXE could do... though
you can still mimic it in .NET using Remoting).

Frankly, I'm hardpressed to think of anything (end-result) I can't
accomplish in either language.

"Sean Hederman" wrote:

"CMM" <CM*@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:A8**********************************@microsof t.com...

You say "there are things C# can do but VB don't and visa versa." Quite
frankly... in terms of "doing"... I can't think of anything that one does
that the other doesn't.

C#: unsafe code blocks, checked/unchecked, operator overloading, using
statement, explicit interface implementation, unsigned types
VB.NET: optional parameters, named indexers, Catch/When, With statement,
implement interface members with method of different names

Their differences are mainly in "how" you do things. VB has declarative
event handling (Private Myproc() Handles Object.Someevent), while
delegates
abound in C#. VB can have loose typeing (which no good VB developer would
ever use... Option Strict should always be on), while C# has some neat GUI
tools to create Methods and Properties (which VB6 had but VB.NET strangely
doesn't!!!)

Although I like C#, I find VB is a lot more productive... mainly in the
way
events are handled but also because the Microsoft.VisualBasic namespace
contains great wrappers around some really annoying non-RAD things in the
.NET. For instance doing MyStr.Substring() and specifying a value bigger
than
the string results in a exception! The classic BASIC Left() function is
smart
enough not to.

If you like the fact that using DateDiff() (in the VisualBasic namespace)
is
one line of code while using DateSpan objects arithmatic can be several
lines
of code, then VB is for you.

"Rena" wrote:

Hi Patrice,
Yup, "tend to favor C# in code samples " that's also what i saw. And
although they keep to saying that choosing VB / C# are the same, as they
are
compatable year before.
There are things C# can do but VB don't and visa versa. Really don't know
what MS / Bill's are thinking............

Rena.
"Patrice" <no****@nowhere.com> ¦b¶l¥ó
news:OB**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl ¤¤¼¶¼g...
> Not an internal team but from what I've heard and seen so far they
> evolve
> both.
>
> Try :
>
http://msdn.microsoft.com/vbasic/whi...05_preview.asp
> for Visual Basic 2005 enhancements...
>
> In some cases they tend to favor C# in code samples (such as in the
DirectX
> SDK AFAIK) but on the other hand VB.NET could be favored in
> applications
> such as Office as a replacement for VBA...
>
> Patrice
>
> --
>
> "Rena" <Re**@mail.com> a écrit dans le message de
> news:ef**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I really would like to know the managment of MS, will put more
effort
> on
> > either VB or C#, because I believe there are not fair balance in the
> world.
> > I used to VB 6.0, and now working on VB .Net. I wonder if MS will now
> shift
> > most of their effort from VB to C#, or would like to retain them
> > in order to keep it as competive as they were during vb 5.0, 6.0
> > ages...
> >
> > I donot wanna know it too late..... really hope some internal
> > staff
> can
> > share their idea, thought and direction about it.
> >
> > thx a lot,
> > Rena.
> >
> >
>
>

[CMM]

> You only have to look back at VB, VBScript and VBA to see how it hasn't

kept pace with open standards. C++, JScript and C# have all survived the
test of time, but there's simply no point in flogging the dead VB horse.
I can't see how what you say is true when the majority of internal business
apps and objects are written in VB or VBA. Also, you state C# has survived
the test of time. Isn't that an overstatement? I mean, it's 4 years old.
Perhaps you meant to say that C-derived languages have survived. Again, I
would beg to differ as the most widely used languages are actually
BASIC-derived or BASIC-esque... including the major database SQL procedural
languages (T-SQL for instance).

Only time will tell which one of these two great languages (VB.NET vs. C#)
will go the way of Delphi. ;-) My bet is that both will have their place...
C# will entrench in the back-end business objects, and class libraries, and
services, and VB will remain the top choice for User Interface development.
We'll see. :-)

"Gerry Hickman" wrote:
Peter van der Goes wrote:

can do that C# cannot (or vice-versa) from a practical standpoint.
Encouraging developers to be versatile is good for them and good for the
organization for which they work.

Yes, but as we discussed earlier, it's not about making personal
choices; it's about making the RIGHT choice for the big business of
tomorrow. That means making sure you've got standards in place, and that
you choose the language which is going to get the best support from the
vendor (C# in this case), and also that the language you choose is going
to available in the job seeker pool of tomorrow.

One of the biggest problems with VB vs C# right now, is that all the
experts choose C# and all the students/beginners choose VB. If you're in
world of big bucks enterprise computing, the choice is obvious.

You only have to look back at VB, VBScript and VBA to see how it hasn't
kept pace with open standards. C++, JScript and C# have all survived the
test of time, but there's simply no point in flogging the dead VB horse.

I'm really glad I never used VB6. I chose W3C DOM and PERL/JScript
instead, and while all my VB friends are busy trying to "migrate", I'm
just sitting back and relaxing.

--
Gerry Hickman (London UK)

[CMM]

Correction... I didn't mean to overstate the usage of VB or non-C
languages... I know full well that pretty much all major technologies and
platforms are written in C/C++... including the Java runtime. I was speaking
about business objects, database front-ends, office automation, etc.

"CMM" wrote:

You only have to look back at VB, VBScript and VBA to see how it hasn't
kept pace with open standards. C++, JScript and C# have all survived the
test of time, but there's simply no point in flogging the dead VB horse.

I can't see how what you say is true when the majority of internal business
apps and objects are written in VB or VBA. Also, you state C# has survived
the test of time. Isn't that an overstatement? I mean, it's 4 years old.
Perhaps you meant to say that C-derived languages have survived. Again, I
would beg to differ as the most widely used languages are actually
BASIC-derived or BASIC-esque... including the major database SQL procedural
languages (T-SQL for instance).

Only time will tell which one of these two great languages (VB.NET vs. C#)
will go the way of Delphi. ;-) My bet is that both will have their place...
C# will entrench in the back-end business objects, and class libraries, and
services, and VB will remain the top choice for User Interface development.
We'll see. :-)

"Gerry Hickman" wrote:

Peter van der Goes wrote:

can do that C# cannot (or vice-versa) from a practical standpoint.
Encouraging developers to be versatile is good for them and good for the
organization for which they work.

Yes, but as we discussed earlier, it's not about making personal
choices; it's about making the RIGHT choice for the big business of
tomorrow. That means making sure you've got standards in place, and that
you choose the language which is going to get the best support from the
vendor (C# in this case), and also that the language you choose is going
to available in the job seeker pool of tomorrow.

One of the biggest problems with VB vs C# right now, is that all the
experts choose C# and all the students/beginners choose VB. If you're in
world of big bucks enterprise computing, the choice is obvious.

You only have to look back at VB, VBScript and VBA to see how it hasn't
kept pace with open standards. C++, JScript and C# have all survived the
test of time, but there's simply no point in flogging the dead VB horse.

I'm really glad I never used VB6. I chose W3C DOM and PERL/JScript
instead, and while all my VB friends are busy trying to "migrate", I'm
just sitting back and relaxing.

--
Gerry Hickman (London UK)

[CMM]

Correction... I didn't mean to overstate the usage of VB or non-C
languages... I know full well that pretty much all major technologies and
platforms are written in C/C++... including the Java runtime. I was speaking
about business objects, database front-ends, office automation, etc.

"CMM" wrote:

You only have to look back at VB, VBScript and VBA to see how it hasn't
kept pace with open standards. C++, JScript and C# have all survived the
test of time, but there's simply no point in flogging the dead VB horse.

I can't see how what you say is true when the majority of internal business
apps and objects are written in VB or VBA. Also, you state C# has survived
the test of time. Isn't that an overstatement? I mean, it's 4 years old.
Perhaps you meant to say that C-derived languages have survived. Again, I
would beg to differ as the most widely used languages are actually
BASIC-derived or BASIC-esque... including the major database SQL procedural
languages (T-SQL for instance).

Only time will tell which one of these two great languages (VB.NET vs. C#)
will go the way of Delphi. ;-) My bet is that both will have their place...
C# will entrench in the back-end business objects, and class libraries, and
services, and VB will remain the top choice for User Interface development.
We'll see. :-)

"Gerry Hickman" wrote:

Peter van der Goes wrote:

can do that C# cannot (or vice-versa) from a practical standpoint.
Encouraging developers to be versatile is good for them and good for the
organization for which they work.

Yes, but as we discussed earlier, it's not about making personal
choices; it's about making the RIGHT choice for the big business of
tomorrow. That means making sure you've got standards in place, and that
you choose the language which is going to get the best support from the
vendor (C# in this case), and also that the language you choose is going
to available in the job seeker pool of tomorrow.

One of the biggest problems with VB vs C# right now, is that all the
experts choose C# and all the students/beginners choose VB. If you're in
world of big bucks enterprise computing, the choice is obvious.

You only have to look back at VB, VBScript and VBA to see how it hasn't
kept pace with open standards. C++, JScript and C# have all survived the
test of time, but there's simply no point in flogging the dead VB horse.

I'm really glad I never used VB6. I chose W3C DOM and PERL/JScript
instead, and while all my VB friends are busy trying to "migrate", I'm
just sitting back and relaxing.

--
Gerry Hickman (London UK)

[CMM]

Correction... I didn't mean to overstate the usage of VB or non-C
languages... I know full well that pretty much all major technologies and
platforms are written in C/C++... including the Java runtime. I was speaking
about business objects, database front-ends, office automation, etc.

"CMM" wrote:

You only have to look back at VB, VBScript and VBA to see how it hasn't
kept pace with open standards. C++, JScript and C# have all survived the
test of time, but there's simply no point in flogging the dead VB horse.

I can't see how what you say is true when the majority of internal business
apps and objects are written in VB or VBA. Also, you state C# has survived
the test of time. Isn't that an overstatement? I mean, it's 4 years old.
Perhaps you meant to say that C-derived languages have survived. Again, I
would beg to differ as the most widely used languages are actually
BASIC-derived or BASIC-esque... including the major database SQL procedural
languages (T-SQL for instance).

Only time will tell which one of these two great languages (VB.NET vs. C#)
will go the way of Delphi. ;-) My bet is that both will have their place...
C# will entrench in the back-end business objects, and class libraries, and
services, and VB will remain the top choice for User Interface development.
We'll see. :-)

"Gerry Hickman" wrote:

Peter van der Goes wrote:

can do that C# cannot (or vice-versa) from a practical standpoint.
Encouraging developers to be versatile is good for them and good for the
organization for which they work.

Yes, but as we discussed earlier, it's not about making personal
choices; it's about making the RIGHT choice for the big business of
tomorrow. That means making sure you've got standards in place, and that
you choose the language which is going to get the best support from the
vendor (C# in this case), and also that the language you choose is going
to available in the job seeker pool of tomorrow.

One of the biggest problems with VB vs C# right now, is that all the
experts choose C# and all the students/beginners choose VB. If you're in
world of big bucks enterprise computing, the choice is obvious.

You only have to look back at VB, VBScript and VBA to see how it hasn't
kept pace with open standards. C++, JScript and C# have all survived the
test of time, but there's simply no point in flogging the dead VB horse.

I'm really glad I never used VB6. I chose W3C DOM and PERL/JScript
instead, and while all my VB friends are busy trying to "migrate", I'm
just sitting back and relaxing.

--
Gerry Hickman (London UK)

[CMM]

Correction... I didn't mean to overstate the usage of VB or non-C
languages... I know full well that pretty much all major technologies and
platforms are written in C/C++... including the Java runtime. I was speaking
about business objects, database front-ends, office automation, etc.

"CMM" wrote:

You only have to look back at VB, VBScript and VBA to see how it hasn't
kept pace with open standards. C++, JScript and C# have all survived the
test of time, but there's simply no point in flogging the dead VB horse.

I can't see how what you say is true when the majority of internal business
apps and objects are written in VB or VBA. Also, you state C# has survived
the test of time. Isn't that an overstatement? I mean, it's 4 years old.
Perhaps you meant to say that C-derived languages have survived. Again, I
would beg to differ as the most widely used languages are actually
BASIC-derived or BASIC-esque... including the major database SQL procedural
languages (T-SQL for instance).

Only time will tell which one of these two great languages (VB.NET vs. C#)
will go the way of Delphi. ;-) My bet is that both will have their place...
C# will entrench in the back-end business objects, and class libraries, and
services, and VB will remain the top choice for User Interface development.
We'll see. :-)

"Gerry Hickman" wrote:

Peter van der Goes wrote:

can do that C# cannot (or vice-versa) from a practical standpoint.
Encouraging developers to be versatile is good for them and good for the
organization for which they work.

Yes, but as we discussed earlier, it's not about making personal
choices; it's about making the RIGHT choice for the big business of
tomorrow. That means making sure you've got standards in place, and that
you choose the language which is going to get the best support from the
vendor (C# in this case), and also that the language you choose is going
to available in the job seeker pool of tomorrow.

One of the biggest problems with VB vs C# right now, is that all the
experts choose C# and all the students/beginners choose VB. If you're in
world of big bucks enterprise computing, the choice is obvious.

You only have to look back at VB, VBScript and VBA to see how it hasn't
kept pace with open standards. C++, JScript and C# have all survived the
test of time, but there's simply no point in flogging the dead VB horse.

I'm really glad I never used VB6. I chose W3C DOM and PERL/JScript
instead, and while all my VB friends are busy trying to "migrate", I'm
just sitting back and relaxing.

--
Gerry Hickman (London UK)

[Sean Hederman]

Oh, I agree, the differences are largely just syntactic sugar. Many of the
items on my list can be duplicated by the other language without too much
difficulty. I don't believe that one language is "better" than the other in
general. Sometimes one is better in a specific circumstance. For example, I
generally use VB.NET when calling COM components authored in VB6, since it's
support for optional parameters makes this easier. Similarly, I generally
use C# when interfacing with Windows API's and C++ COM objects, since
unsafe, unsigned & checked/unchecked make this easier.

I used to be a VB.NET developer who occasionally used C#, now I'm a C#
developer who occasionally uses VB.NET. There's no real point getting hung
up by one language or another if their underlying base is identical. Use the
best tool for the job. Hell, I even occasionally use MC++, but it makes my
nose bleed ;D

"CMM" <CM*@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:20**********************************@microsof t.com...

Great examples of some key differences... but they still fall under what I
categorized as "how." For instance, Optional Parameters can be mimicked in
C#
using carefully crafted overloaded methods. What I meant by "*what* you
can
do" is for example: VB6 inability to create a standard Win32 library under
any circumstance... or maybe both C# and VB.NET's inability to expose and
share SingleInstance classes from an exe (like ol' COM EXE could do...
though
you can still mimic it in .NET using Remoting).

Frankly, I'm hardpressed to think of anything (end-result) I can't
accomplish in either language.

"Sean Hederman" wrote:

"CMM" <CM*@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:A8**********************************@microsof t.com...

> You say "there are things C# can do but VB don't and visa versa." Quite
> frankly... in terms of "doing"... I can't think of anything that one
> does
> that the other doesn't.

C#: unsafe code blocks, checked/unchecked, operator overloading, using
statement, explicit interface implementation, unsigned types
VB.NET: optional parameters, named indexers, Catch/When, With statement,
implement interface members with method of different names

> Their differences are mainly in "how" you do things. VB has declarative
> event handling (Private Myproc() Handles Object.Someevent), while
> delegates
> abound in C#. VB can have loose typeing (which no good VB developer
> would
> ever use... Option Strict should always be on), while C# has some neat
> GUI
> tools to create Methods and Properties (which VB6 had but VB.NET
> strangely
> doesn't!!!)
>
> Although I like C#, I find VB is a lot more productive... mainly in the
> way
> events are handled but also because the Microsoft.VisualBasic namespace
> contains great wrappers around some really annoying non-RAD things in
> the
> .NET. For instance doing MyStr.Substring() and specifying a value
> bigger
> than
> the string results in a exception! The classic BASIC Left() function is
> smart
> enough not to.
>
> If you like the fact that using DateDiff() (in the VisualBasic
> namespace)
> is
> one line of code while using DateSpan objects arithmatic can be several
> lines
> of code, then VB is for you.
>
> "Rena" wrote:
>
>> Hi Patrice,
>> Yup, "tend to favor C# in code samples " that's also what i saw.
>> And
>> although they keep to saying that choosing VB / C# are the same, as
>> they
>> are
>> compatable year before.
>> There are things C# can do but VB don't and visa versa. Really don't
>> know
>> what MS / Bill's are thinking............
>>
>> Rena.
>>
>>
>> "Patrice" <no****@nowhere.com> ¦b¶l¥ó
>> news:OB**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl ¤¤¼¶¼g...
>> > Not an internal team but from what I've heard and seen so far they
>> > evolve
>> > both.
>> >
>> > Try :
>> >
>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/vbasic/whi...05_preview.asp
>> > for Visual Basic 2005 enhancements...
>> >
>> > In some cases they tend to favor C# in code samples (such as in the
>> DirectX
>> > SDK AFAIK) but on the other hand VB.NET could be favored in
>> > applications
>> > such as Office as a replacement for VBA...
>> >
>> > Patrice
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > "Rena" <Re**@mail.com> a écrit dans le message de
>> > news:ef**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> > > Hi all,
>> > >
>> > > I really would like to know the managment of MS, will put more
>> effort
>> > on
>> > > either VB or C#, because I believe there are not fair balance in
>> > > the
>> > world.
>> > > I used to VB 6.0, and now working on VB .Net. I wonder if MS will
>> > > now
>> > shift
>> > > most of their effort from VB to C#, or would like to retain them
>> > > in order to keep it as competive as they were during vb 5.0, 6.0
>> > > ages...
>> > >
>> > > I donot wanna know it too late..... really hope some internal
>> > > staff
>> > can
>> > > share their idea, thought and direction about it.
>> > >
>> > > thx a lot,
>> > > Rena.
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>

[Chris]

Which is powerful the .net or c#....?

[Cor Ligthert]

"Gerry Hickman"
..

Yes, but as we discussed earlier, it's not about making personal choices;

Exactly read your own message again. There is not much stated on facts in
that.
(Those needs official references with numbers and than not only local facts
however world wide facts)

just my 2 eurocents

Cor

[Sean Hederman]

"Chris" <Ch***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:C0**********************************@microsof t.com...

Which is powerful the .net or c#....?

You're comparing apples and oranges. .NET is a platform on which .NET
executables run, and C# is one of the languages which produces .NET
executables.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

".NET stikes C# in the bytecode! And then follows up with a CAS revocation!"
"Oooh that's gotta hurt Jim!"
"I agree Ralph, I haven't seen a language look this down since they
announced My Namespaces for VB!"
"But wait, wait, C# jumps back in the ring and is demanding a stack walk!
And the umpire's given it to him! He's following up with some dextrous
unsafe code blocks and a fine piece of AppDomain instantiation!"

;-)

[Gerry Hickman]

Hi CMM,

Correction... I didn't mean to overstate the usage of VB or non-C
languages...
I knew what you meant!
I know full well that pretty much all major technologies and
platforms are written in C/C++... including the Java runtime. I was speaking
about business objects, database front-ends, office automation, etc.

OK, well my view on this is that anyone who wrote "business objects" in
VB6 made a mistake, and now they're paying for it. Database front-ends
written in VB or VB.NET (in my view) tend to be "beginner" front-ends.
We have a strict policy against it in all businesses I'm involved with.
All front-ends must be written in conformance with the W3C so that
they'll work on any computer with any browser from anywhere in the
world. How do you get a VB "front-end" working in an internet cafe in
China that's got Mozilla installed for example?

Office Automation is an interesting one. The guys in the next office
block from me have lot's of VBA and it's a nightmare - hard-coded into
actual databases and speadsheets. Some is in VB6, and so on.

I, on the other hand, use JScript and have managed to avoid all the
constant changes they keep making on the client side. My automation
stuff "just works", regardless of what version of office they've got, or
what service packs etc are installed. It's similar with Excel, there's
no silly security warnings annoying the user like wot U see if trying to
use dumbo "Macros" and "VB Projects".

I like the easy life!

--
Gerry Hickman (London UK)

[Rena]

Hi Sean,
"C# is one of the languages which produces .NET executables."

so it means if we wrote VB .net code and generate the executable, it is
first convert to C# then to C# executable?
Thanks
"Sean Hederman" <us***@blogentry.com> ¦b¶l¥ó
news:d0**********@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net ¤¤¼¶¼g...

"Chris" <Ch***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:C0**********************************@microsof t.com...

Which is powerful the .net or c#....?
You're comparing apples and oranges. .NET is a platform on which .NET
executables run, and C# is one of the languages which produces .NET
executables.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----
".NET stikes C# in the bytecode! And then follows up with a CAS revocation!" "Oooh that's gotta hurt Jim!"
"I agree Ralph, I haven't seen a language look this down since they
announced My Namespaces for VB!"
"But wait, wait, C# jumps back in the ring and is demanding a stack walk!
And the umpire's given it to him! He's following up with some dextrous
unsafe code blocks and a fine piece of AppDomain instantiation!"

;-)

[Peter van der Goes]

"Rena" <Re**@mail.com> wrote in message
news:uF**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

Hi Sean,
"C# is one of the languages which produces .NET executables."

so it means if we wrote VB .net code and generate the executable, it is
first convert to C# then to C# executable?
Thanks

No. Source code written in *any* .NET language is compiled to MSIL
(Microsoft Intermediate Language). There is no translation through C# from
VB. The MSIL is interpreted by and run through the .NET Framework.

--
Peter [MVP Visual Developer]
Jack of all trades, master of none.

[SB]

The sentence says "ONE of the languages"...ie, there are several others that
do the same thing.

-sb
"Rena" <Re**@mail.com> wrote in message
news:uF**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

Hi Sean,
"C# is one of the languages which produces .NET executables."

so it means if we wrote VB .net code and generate the executable, it is
first convert to C# then to C# executable?
Thanks
"Sean Hederman" <us***@blogentry.com> ¦b¶l¥ó
news:d0**********@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net ¤¤¼¶¼g...

"Chris" <Ch***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:C0**********************************@microsof t.com...

>
> Which is powerful the .net or c#....?

You're comparing apples and oranges. .NET is a platform on which .NET
executables run, and C# is one of the languages which produces .NET
executables.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----

".NET stikes C# in the bytecode! And then follows up with a CAS

revocation!"

"Oooh that's gotta hurt Jim!"
"I agree Ralph, I haven't seen a language look this down since they
announced My Namespaces for VB!"
"But wait, wait, C# jumps back in the ring and is demanding a stack walk!
And the umpire's given it to him! He's following up with some dextrous
unsafe code blocks and a fine piece of AppDomain instantiation!"

;-)

[Cor Ligthert]

Only a little additon to what Peter wrote.

With a .Net language is in this message as often meant a language that
builds .Net managed code.

C++ is a Visual.Studio.Net language however can do both.

Cor

[manoj bhardwaj]

hi i would like 2 thanks u for giving some information about vb. may u favour
me in this mb***@yahoo.com

"Rena" wrote:

Hi all,

I really would like to know the managment of MS, will put more effort on
either VB or C#, because I believe there are not fair balance in the world.
I used to VB 6.0, and now working on VB .Net. I wonder if MS will now shift
most of their effort from VB to C#, or would like to retain them
in order to keep it as competive as they were during vb 5.0, 6.0 ages...

I donot wanna know it too late..... really hope some internal staff can
share their idea, thought and direction about it.

thx a lot,
Rena.

[Jeswin P.]

Hi,

I guess we have all agreed that no language is better than the other, and it
depends more on what you want to do and you personal preference. There might
be some specialized requirements which mandate the use of a certain language
(C++.Net, and to a lesser extent C#)

For me, other than my personal preference for C++ style coding, these are
the other reasons for chosing C# (in no particular order of importance)
1. Mono has an excellent C# compiler. And it is pretty mature. So my
application will run on Linux.
2. The number of C# samples available are more. Tool/Component developers
often come from a C++ background and hence write their samples in C#.
3. Most open source projects are in C#. Even Microsoft's own Rotor is.
SharpDevelop is another example.(DotNetNuke is an exception.)
4. What if we need to write unsafe code in future? I might also need to
write a performance critical loop, with pointers. We all try to stay away
from it, but as a last resort. It is always better to have options.
5. Interesting features seem to be introduced first on C#. I tend to use
"using" a lot, which is coming to VB.Net 2005.
6. Co-variance/Contra-variance in Whidbey

Thanks,
Jeswin P.
(http://cyberjessy.blogspot.com)
"Rena" wrote:

Hi all,

I really would like to know the managment of MS, will put more effort on
either VB or C#, because I believe there are not fair balance in the world.
I used to VB 6.0, and now working on VB .Net. I wonder if MS will now shift
most of their effort from VB to C#, or would like to retain them
in order to keep it as competive as they were during vb 5.0, 6.0 ages...

I donot wanna know it too late..... really hope some internal staff can
share their idea, thought and direction about it.

thx a lot,
Rena.