.Net development

[Philip Germanos]

Hello.
I have a project which consists of developing an application for pocket pc's.
Briefly the client application which is a medical application for
pharmacists will have to access a database server for data retreival.
Its the first time i am getting in touch with .Net development, so what's
the difference between C# and Visual Basic.Net and which one of them should i
use?
And by the way, which way is better, a two tier architecture with a client
application on the pocket pc's accessing the database server directly, or a
three tier architecture with a server application in between the client and
the database?
Do i need ASP.Net?
What tools do i need for the development?
Thank you.

[Denny Britz]

Hi Philip,
the biggest difference between C# and VB.NET ist their Syntax.
Both of them use the .NET Framework, so it makes no difference
if you use C# or VB.NET, even if there are some small things
in C# that you can't do with VB.NET and the other way round.

If you have to store your connection string (+ db password)
on the client application I would recommend a three-tier architecture.
The middle-tier then (e.g. a web-service) handles all incoming
db-requests and passes the data to the client.

If you use a Web-Service as yor middle-tier you need ASP.NET
and as a IDE I would recommend Visual Studio .NET.

But there are also some free IDE's like #Devlop or WebMatrix.

Hello.
I have a project which consists of developing an application for pocket pc's.
Briefly the client application which is a medical application for
pharmacists will have to access a database server for data retreival.
Its the first time i am getting in touch with .Net development, so what's
the difference between C# and Visual Basic.Net and which one of them should i
use?
And by the way, which way is better, a two tier architecture with a client
application on the pocket pc's accessing the database server directly, or a
three tier architecture with a server application in between the client and
the database?
Do i need ASP.Net?
What tools do i need for the development?
Thank you.

[Cor Ligthert]

Philip,

In the current versions there is almost no difference between C# and Visual
Basic Net.
It is used as the cement to get all the predefined and your own classes
working.

The current version of Visual Basic (when used Vistual Studio Net) is more
comfortable to work than C# with because that the build in intelissence in
VBNet is much higher and does background compiling. Therefore when you are
not such a secure typer (like me) you are probably less times building
programs.

In my opinion is with that everything said.

Therefore when you are used with a C derived language (C C++ Java
JavaScript) than your best choose is probably C#, when you are used to a
dialect of VB (VB6, VBS, VBA) than your best choose is probably VBNet.

The tool is Visual Studio Net which has more versions. When you are
professional developper than a MSDN subscription is probably a good choose.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/pr...o/default.aspx

http://msdn.microsoft.com/howtobuy/s...s/default.aspx

In general I have an answer on the rest of your questions, however I think
that those can be better answered by people exactly busy with the same
question as you.

Microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.compactframework

I hope this helps?

Cor

[Nick Malik [Microsoft]]

What is NOT clear about your application: Will it run connected (wirelessly)
or disconnected (client-server).
From your questions, it appears that you are considering client/server.
However, if it is possible to run your app as a web page on a server, and
just use the devices as very specialized web browsers, you way want to
seriously consider it.

I worked on a project that ran for a year before failing completely. We
were using handheld devices to collect data at remote locations and sync it
back to a central server when the user returns to the central location.

If you decide to go with disconnected mode:
I STRONGLY suggest that you want to investigate data replication tools. Set
up proofs of concept. Discuss better ways to do it. Take the time to think
about how you will merge data from many devices into the common central
database. Prove that it will work. Do NOTHING else until you get this
right. (This is where my project failed).

Language shouldn't matter. Google on C# vs VB.Net to see any one of
hundreds of discussions. I won't get into it. They are both excellent
languages.

Leverage "SQL Server for CE" heavily. This nifty tool gives you many of the
automatic data replication capabilities that you will need, but not all.

Once you have the data worked out, start working on different approaches for
GUI. You have a much smaller screen. If you users are over 40, they may
have eyesight problems that will make it harder to focus on small print or
to switch from looking at a small screen to looking at an object or person
that is a few feet away. You'll want to maximize the functionality of that
tiny screen while minimizing the discomfort that a poorly designed UI would
cause.

It is also hard as hell to do any serious data entry on a tiny screen. Use
controls for entering numbers and allow lookups of common text strings to
avoid your user having to enter much text.

Good luck

--
--- Nick Malik [Microsoft]
MCSD, CFPS, Certified Scrummaster
http://blogs.msdn.com/nickmalik

Disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this forum are my own, and not
representative of my employer.
I do not answer questions on behalf of my employer. I'm just a
programmer helping programmers.
--
"Philip Germanos" <Ph************@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:27**********************************@microsof t.com...

Hello.
I have a project which consists of developing an application for pocket
pc's.
Briefly the client application which is a medical application for
pharmacists will have to access a database server for data retreival.
Its the first time i am getting in touch with .Net development, so what's
the difference between C# and Visual Basic.Net and which one of them
should i
use?
And by the way, which way is better, a two tier architecture with a client
application on the pocket pc's accessing the database server directly, or
a
three tier architecture with a server application in between the client
and
the database?
Do i need ASP.Net?
What tools do i need for the development?
Thank you.

[Cor Ligthert]

Nick,

Did you see "what is the avarage age of a programmer" thread.

I hope they don't give all comments on you when they are over 40.

I have already very long a PDA.

(However it is one of the first (Palm), from the time when the Windows
versions where in a speed that you only could use it to show that you had
one).

:-)

Cor

[Nick Malik [Microsoft]]

Hi Cor,

Did you see "what is the avarage age of a programmer" thread.
nope
I hope they don't give all comments on you when they are over 40.

My comment was on the age of the users, not the age of the programmers. This
is an issue if a company issues a PDA to an employee and says "use it"
without considering that some folks will have a harder time using it due to
normal age considerations.

I have an old PDA too. Makes a great doorstop.
--
--- Nick Malik [Microsoft]
MCSD, CFPS, Certified Scrummaster
http://blogs.msdn.com/nickmalik

Disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this forum are my own, and not
representative of my employer.
I do not answer questions on behalf of my employer. I'm just a
programmer helping programmers.
--

[Cor Ligthert]

Nick,

I have an old PDA too. Makes a great doorstop.

You never thought on the fact that there are younger people who can have as
well eye problems.

That was the quoin from my message, I hoped you understood that.

Cor

[Nick Malik [Microsoft]]

Hi Cor,

You never thought on the fact that there are younger people who can have
as well eye problems.

In the US legal system, individual inability to use the tools of a job
disqualify you for the job if the employer made "reasonable accomodations"
to overcome the disability. Therefore, if a small number of young folks
cannot use an application, regardless of the computing device, businesses
often work around the problem by finding another job for those employees.

On the other hand, failing to consider the fact that nearly every employee
over 40 is potentially unable to use an application that doesn't take into
consideration the unique eyesight challenges that come from a small screen
that is not a fixed distance from the user's eyes... that would be an
application-killer because the application would not be accepted by the end
users who would need to use it.

While I do not dismiss your statement, I maintain that the one I brought up
is (a) more likely to affect the outcome of a software development project
involving handheld devices, and (b) different than the consideration of
disability.

Thanks for your feedback.

--
--- Nick Malik [Microsoft]
MCSD, CFPS, Certified Scrummaster
http://blogs.msdn.com/nickmalik

Disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this forum are my own, and not
representative of my employer.
I do not answer questions on behalf of my employer. I'm just a
programmer helping programmers.
--

[Philip Germanos]

Hi Nick.
First of all, i didnt understand what do you mean by saying if my
application will run connected (wirelessly) or disconnected (client-server).
Do you mean that if it is connected it isnt a client-server application? and
how can a disconnected one be a client-server app?
Second of all, to make my application description clearer to you, on the
client side, it wont be a web application(accessed by the pocket pc's
browser), it will be a software application downloaded on the device that can
work as a stand alone application with its own database and it could connect
to a server for data retreival and updates. So it will be sometimes
connected, some other times disconnected.
So please could you just make your opinion clearer on the subject?
Thank you.
Philip.

"Nick Malik [Microsoft]" wrote:

What is NOT clear about your application: Will it run connected (wirelessly)
or disconnected (client-server).
From your questions, it appears that you are considering client/server.
However, if it is possible to run your app as a web page on a server, and
just use the devices as very specialized web browsers, you way want to
seriously consider it.

I worked on a project that ran for a year before failing completely. We
were using handheld devices to collect data at remote locations and sync it
back to a central server when the user returns to the central location.

If you decide to go with disconnected mode:
I STRONGLY suggest that you want to investigate data replication tools. Set
up proofs of concept. Discuss better ways to do it. Take the time to think
about how you will merge data from many devices into the common central
database. Prove that it will work. Do NOTHING else until you get this
right. (This is where my project failed).

Language shouldn't matter. Google on C# vs VB.Net to see any one of
hundreds of discussions. I won't get into it. They are both excellent
languages.

Leverage "SQL Server for CE" heavily. This nifty tool gives you many of the
automatic data replication capabilities that you will need, but not all.

Once you have the data worked out, start working on different approaches for
GUI. You have a much smaller screen. If you users are over 40, they may
have eyesight problems that will make it harder to focus on small print or
to switch from looking at a small screen to looking at an object or person
that is a few feet away. You'll want to maximize the functionality of that
tiny screen while minimizing the discomfort that a poorly designed UI would
cause.

It is also hard as hell to do any serious data entry on a tiny screen. Use
controls for entering numbers and allow lookups of common text strings to
avoid your user having to enter much text.

Good luck

--
--- Nick Malik [Microsoft]
MCSD, CFPS, Certified Scrummaster
http://blogs.msdn.com/nickmalik

Disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this forum are my own, and not
representative of my employer.
I do not answer questions on behalf of my employer. I'm just a
programmer helping programmers.
--
"Philip Germanos" <Ph************@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:27**********************************@microsof t.com...

Hello.
I have a project which consists of developing an application for pocket
pc's.
Briefly the client application which is a medical application for
pharmacists will have to access a database server for data retreival.
Its the first time i am getting in touch with .Net development, so what's
the difference between C# and Visual Basic.Net and which one of them
should i
use?
And by the way, which way is better, a two tier architecture with a client
application on the pocket pc's accessing the database server directly, or
a
three tier architecture with a server application in between the client
and
the database?
Do i need ASP.Net?
What tools do i need for the development?
Thank you.

[Philip Germanos]

Hi Denny.
Thank you for your reply.
I have another question concerning your answer, my application wont be a web
application accessed via the pocket pc's browser, it will be a sofware app
downloaded to the device and that runs as a stand alone app with its own
database and at the same time it could connect to a server for data retreival
and update. So why do i need ASP.net?
I thought ASP.net is used as a server side for client web applications that
dynamically changes, or my app isnt a web application, but at the same time,
it needs to connect to a server, so can you clarify the subject for me?
I am new to multi-tier architecture programming and to .Net especially, so
thank you for your concern.

"Denny Britz" wrote:

Hi Philip,
the biggest difference between C# and VB.NET ist their Syntax.
Both of them use the .NET Framework, so it makes no difference
if you use C# or VB.NET, even if there are some small things
in C# that you can't do with VB.NET and the other way round.

If you have to store your connection string (+ db password)
on the client application I would recommend a three-tier architecture.
The middle-tier then (e.g. a web-service) handles all incoming
db-requests and passes the data to the client.

If you use a Web-Service as yor middle-tier you need ASP.NET
and as a IDE I would recommend Visual Studio .NET.

But there are also some free IDE's like #Devlop or WebMatrix.

Hello.
I have a project which consists of developing an application for pocket pc's.
Briefly the client application which is a medical application for
pharmacists will have to access a database server for data retreival.
Its the first time i am getting in touch with .Net development, so what's
the difference between C# and Visual Basic.Net and which one of them should i
use?
And by the way, which way is better, a two tier architecture with a client
application on the pocket pc's accessing the database server directly, or a
three tier architecture with a server application in between the client and
the database?
Do i need ASP.Net?
What tools do i need for the development?
Thank you.

[Nick Malik [Microsoft]]

Hello Philip,

ASP.Net can be used to create a web service that your handheld device can
access.

You have to ask yourself: "what mechanism will you use to synchronize the
data?"

This is a hard problem (as I indicated in my response). Microsoft SQL
Server for CE has solved this problem. I strongly encourage you to look
into that.

If your decide against a Microsoft product, there are one or two commercial
data sync products that may or may not use ActiveSync to move the data.

If you decide against those, and insist on reinventing this wheel... then
ASP.Net will become important to you as a way of hosting an interface on the
server that the handheld device can access.

--
--- Nick Malik [Microsoft]
MCSD, CFPS, Certified Scrummaster
http://blogs.msdn.com/nickmalik

Disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this forum are my own, and not
representative of my employer.
I do not answer questions on behalf of my employer. I'm just a
programmer helping programmers.
--
"Philip Germanos" <Ph************@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:E4**********************************@microsof t.com...

Hi Denny.
Thank you for your reply.
I have another question concerning your answer, my application wont be a
web
application accessed via the pocket pc's browser, it will be a sofware app
downloaded to the device and that runs as a stand alone app with its own
database and at the same time it could connect to a server for data
retreival
and update. So why do i need ASP.net?
I thought ASP.net is used as a server side for client web applications
that
dynamically changes, or my app isnt a web application, but at the same
time,
it needs to connect to a server, so can you clarify the subject for me?
I am new to multi-tier architecture programming and to .Net especially, so
thank you for your concern.

"Denny Britz" wrote:

Hi Philip,
the biggest difference between C# and VB.NET ist their Syntax.
Both of them use the .NET Framework, so it makes no difference
if you use C# or VB.NET, even if there are some small things
in C# that you can't do with VB.NET and the other way round.

If you have to store your connection string (+ db password)
on the client application I would recommend a three-tier architecture.
The middle-tier then (e.g. a web-service) handles all incoming
db-requests and passes the data to the client.

If you use a Web-Service as yor middle-tier you need ASP.NET
and as a IDE I would recommend Visual Studio .NET.

But there are also some free IDE's like #Devlop or WebMatrix.

> Hello.
> I have a project which consists of developing an application for pocket
> pc's.
> Briefly the client application which is a medical application for
> pharmacists will have to access a database server for data retreival.
> Its the first time i am getting in touch with .Net development, so
> what's
> the difference between C# and Visual Basic.Net and which one of them
> should i
> use?
> And by the way, which way is better, a two tier architecture with a
> client
> application on the pocket pc's accessing the database server directly,
> or a
> three tier architecture with a server application in between the client
> and
> the database?
> Do i need ASP.Net?
> What tools do i need for the development?
> Thank you.
>

[Nick Malik [Microsoft]]

By "connected (wireless)" I was referring to the option of creating a web
app on the server and browsing it with the client. You had not clarified
that in your original post. Thank you for clarifying that in the follow-up.

Let's not get hung up on labels. I don't want to argue what type of app
"is" or "is not" a client server app, because the term has so many meanings
as to be nearly useless in an actual design discussion. I'm sorry for
bringing it up.

Please correct me if I'm wrong: You are creating a stand-alone application
with database that can run on a Windows CE device like an HP Ipaq. You know
that you will need to provide a function for synchronizing the data with a
central server. For your application, you need mechanisms to store the
data, connect securely, transfer the data, and disconnect gracefully. For
this, I strongly suggest SQL Server for CE as a place to start. (Not a
place to end: you may need more than one db at the server end).

My clarified remarks are below:

If it is possible to run your app as a web page on a server, and
just use the devices as very specialized web browsers, you way want to
seriously consider it.

I worked on a project that ran for a year before failing completely. We
were using handheld devices to collect data at remote locations and sync
it
back to a central server when the user returns to the central location.

If you decide to go with disconnected mode:
I STRONGLY suggest that you want to investigate data replication tools.
Set
up proofs of concept. Discuss better ways to do it. Take the time to
think
about how you will merge data from many devices into the common central
database. Prove that it will work. Do NOTHING else until you get this
right. (This is where my project failed).

Language shouldn't matter. Google on C# vs VB.Net to see any one of
hundreds of discussions. I won't get into it. They are both excellent
languages.

Leverage "SQL Server for CE" heavily. This nifty tool gives you many of
the
automatic data replication capabilities that you will need, but not all.

Once you have the data worked out, start working on different approaches
for
GUI. You have a much smaller screen. If you users are over 40, they may
have eyesight problems that will make it harder to focus on small print
or
to switch from looking at a small screen to looking at an object or
person
that is a few feet away. You'll want to maximize the functionality of
that
tiny screen while minimizing the discomfort that a poorly designed UI
would
cause.

It is also hard as hell to do any serious data entry on a tiny screen.
Use
controls for entering numbers and allow lookups of common text strings to
avoid your user having to enter much text.

Good luck

--
--- Nick Malik [Microsoft]
MCSD, CFPS, Certified Scrummaster
http://blogs.msdn.com/nickmalik

Disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this forum are my own, and not
representative of my employer.
I do not answer questions on behalf of my employer. I'm just a
programmer helping programmers.
--
"Philip Germanos" <Ph************@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:52**********************************@microsof t.com... Hi Nick.
First of all, i didnt understand what do you mean by saying if my
application will run connected (wirelessly) or disconnected
(client-server).
Do you mean that if it is connected it isnt a client-server application?
and
how can a disconnected one be a client-server app?
Second of all, to make my application description clearer to you, on the
client side, it wont be a web application(accessed by the pocket pc's
browser), it will be a software application downloaded on the device that
can
work as a stand alone application with its own database and it could
connect
to a server for data retreival and updates. So it will be sometimes
connected, some other times disconnected.
So please could you just make your opinion clearer on the subject?
Thank you.
Philip.