UI Architecture

[Michael Conroy]

I like the MS Money and InstallShield interfaces (at least, I like the
hypertext, Web based appearance.) I would like to provide such a front end
to my Windows Form application. However, I'm leary of the IE Web Browser
control. I don't even know if this is a prudent design decision owing to the
extra overhead of having to parse HTML and ASPX pages. Can anybody provide
guidance about hosting and interacting with Web-style content in a WinForms
app?

Cheers,
Mike

[Ahmed Qurashi]

See Microsoft Inductive User Interface Guidelines:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...guidelines.asp

MS Money is one of the case studies ;)

ok,
aq

"Michael Conroy" <Mi***********@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:B7**********************************@microsof t.com...

I like the MS Money and InstallShield interfaces (at least, I like the
hypertext, Web based appearance.) I would like to provide such a front end to my Windows Form application. However, I'm leary of the IE Web Browser
control. I don't even know if this is a prudent design decision owing to the extra overhead of having to parse HTML and ASPX pages. Can anybody provide guidance about hosting and interacting with Web-style content in a WinForms app?

Cheers,
Mike

[Michael Conroy]

Ahmed,

Thank you for your prompt response. The article is indeed illuminating, and
although I was aware of this approach (as a Money user), I wasn't aware of
its name. However, I'm still in limbo about the architecture. I want to use
the HTML style approach, but I'm curious about hosting the ASP.NET runtime
within my app. I'm able to do it, but it is a memory pig. I'm wondering if
others have taken this UI approach and how they have done it. I know the
WinForms model provides levels of flexibility with respect to user
interaction that may make it a better choice - however, the graphical
richness of the HTML style interface, coupled with a few other design
objectives including an "online" look-and-feel, as well as the desire to be
able to open Word docs right within the app make it seem like the Browser
control is a good idea. Just looking for reassurance...or even derision -
but SOME kind of bellwether would be great.

Best,
Michael

"Ahmed Qurashi" wrote:

See Microsoft Inductive User Interface Guidelines:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...guidelines.asp

MS Money is one of the case studies ;)

ok,
aq

"Michael Conroy" <Mi***********@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:B7**********************************@microsof t.com...

I like the MS Money and InstallShield interfaces (at least, I like the
hypertext, Web based appearance.) I would like to provide such a front

end

to my Windows Form application. However, I'm leary of the IE Web Browser
control. I don't even know if this is a prudent design decision owing to

the

extra overhead of having to parse HTML and ASPX pages. Can anybody

provide

guidance about hosting and interacting with Web-style content in a

WinForms

app?

Cheers,
Mike

[Ahmed Qurashi]

In .Net 2.0 (VS2005) a WinForm control is introduced called the WebBrowser
control. It exposes a wrapper around the OCX IE control and I believe has
greater flexibility in terms of UI and Data events. Performance-wise, I
think you are going to pay for it tho ;)

The inductive method provides the "don't make me think" simplicity of an
online web application look and feel within the client form context. But
actually consuming .aspx data within the form may have usability advantages
in that it can be consistant across different platforms.

I find it interesting that you tend toward an HTML interface as being
graphically "rich". I lean more toward the idea that an inductive WinForm
which can utilize dynamically generated GDI+ bitmaps and handle UI and Data
events via Timer based animations is the way to go. Now, with Managed
DirectX in the WinForm, this design method blows away anything I've seen in
the aspx space. I even experimented with Macromedia's Flash Remoting for
..Net to try to get something silmilar, but in Avalon with the Animation
class and TimeLines I think inductive UIs are clearly moving more toward
storyboarding, motion graphics and game design than the static web
experience.

It all depends on what you are trying to architect and how to be as
productive at it as possible. What is your target audience and use case
scenario for the apps you are looking to build?

ok,
aq

"Michael Conroy" <Mi***********@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:09**********************************@microsof t.com...

Ahmed,

Thank you for your prompt response. The article is indeed illuminating, and although I was aware of this approach (as a Money user), I wasn't aware of
its name. However, I'm still in limbo about the architecture. I want to use the HTML style approach, but I'm curious about hosting the ASP.NET runtime
within my app. I'm able to do it, but it is a memory pig. I'm wondering if others have taken this UI approach and how they have done it. I know the WinForms model provides levels of flexibility with respect to user
interaction that may make it a better choice - however, the graphical
richness of the HTML style interface, coupled with a few other design
objectives including an "online" look-and-feel, as well as the desire to be able to open Word docs right within the app make it seem like the Browser
control is a good idea. Just looking for reassurance...or even derision -
but SOME kind of bellwether would be great.

Best,
Michael

"Ahmed Qurashi" wrote:

See Microsoft Inductive User Interface Guidelines:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...guidelines.asp
MS Money is one of the case studies ;)

ok,
aq

"Michael Conroy" <Mi***********@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:B7**********************************@microsof t.com...

I like the MS Money and InstallShield interfaces (at least, I like the
hypertext, Web based appearance.) I would like to provide such a front

end

to my Windows Form application. However, I'm leary of the IE Web

Browser control. I don't even know if this is a prudent design decision owing

to the

extra overhead of having to parse HTML and ASPX pages. Can anybody

provide

guidance about hosting and interacting with Web-style content in a

WinForms

app?

Cheers,
Mike

[Michael Conroy]

Thanks again...

The application is a smart client app that was originally spec'd to be a Web
app. The deployment model, however, mandates that some clients will NEVER be
connected. So, those who maintain connectivity get regular updates through
the App Updater Block. I'm trying to use the UIP App block, but I haven't
decided if it's really what I want just yet.

The app is a refactored construct stemming from multiple versions of the
same basic codebase. I'm employing a "factory" approach to make the core
code as extensible as possible. This includes building application tools to
help create and configure the final deliverables.

Presentation layer is extremely important. My client base has given me the
impression that the traditional Windows Forms L&F is outdated. Mind you -
this is only my impression - and may be biased through a number of other
sources. Thus, I'm looking for ways to spice up presentation. Being a Money
and InstallShield, and (obviously) VS.NET user, I like the whole hypertext,
pretty graphics L&F. Trouble is - when I go to make WinForms, I feel like
I'm restricted to the toolbox palette. A nice layout manager would be
welcome. I know the new stuff is coming out with all that, but my
deliverable target is May/June. (Which is awfully ambitious - but sleep is
optional.) I'm currently running VS2003 with DNF1.1.

That's a synposis of my objective. Where might I find some examples of the
rich UI stuff you've mentioned?

Cheers,
Michael

"Ahmed Qurashi" wrote:

In .Net 2.0 (VS2005) a WinForm control is introduced called the WebBrowser
control. It exposes a wrapper around the OCX IE control and I believe has
greater flexibility in terms of UI and Data events. Performance-wise, I
think you are going to pay for it tho ;)

The inductive method provides the "don't make me think" simplicity of an
online web application look and feel within the client form context. But
actually consuming .aspx data within the form may have usability advantages
in that it can be consistant across different platforms.

I find it interesting that you tend toward an HTML interface as being
graphically "rich". I lean more toward the idea that an inductive WinForm
which can utilize dynamically generated GDI+ bitmaps and handle UI and Data
events via Timer based animations is the way to go. Now, with Managed
DirectX in the WinForm, this design method blows away anything I've seen in
the aspx space. I even experimented with Macromedia's Flash Remoting for
..Net to try to get something silmilar, but in Avalon with the Animation
class and TimeLines I think inductive UIs are clearly moving more toward
storyboarding, motion graphics and game design than the static web
experience.

It all depends on what you are trying to architect and how to be as
productive at it as possible. What is your target audience and use case
scenario for the apps you are looking to build?

ok,
aq

"Michael Conroy" <Mi***********@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:09**********************************@microsof t.com...

Ahmed,

Thank you for your prompt response. The article is indeed illuminating,

and

although I was aware of this approach (as a Money user), I wasn't aware of
its name. However, I'm still in limbo about the architecture. I want to

use

the HTML style approach, but I'm curious about hosting the ASP.NET runtime
within my app. I'm able to do it, but it is a memory pig. I'm wondering

if

others have taken this UI approach and how they have done it. I know the

WinForms model provides levels of flexibility with respect to user
interaction that may make it a better choice - however, the graphical
richness of the HTML style interface, coupled with a few other design
objectives including an "online" look-and-feel, as well as the desire to

be

able to open Word docs right within the app make it seem like the Browser
control is a good idea. Just looking for reassurance...or even derision -
but SOME kind of bellwether would be great.

Best,
Michael

"Ahmed Qurashi" wrote:

See Microsoft Inductive User Interface Guidelines:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...guidelines.asp
MS Money is one of the case studies ;)

ok,
aq

"Michael Conroy" <Mi***********@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:B7**********************************@microsof t.com...
> I like the MS Money and InstallShield interfaces (at least, I like the
> hypertext, Web based appearance.) I would like to provide such a front end
> to my Windows Form application. However, I'm leary of the IE Web Browser > control. I don't even know if this is a prudent design decision owing to the
> extra overhead of having to parse HTML and ASPX pages. Can anybody
provide
> guidance about hosting and interacting with Web-style content in a
WinForms
> app?
>
> Cheers,
> Mike

[Ahmed Qurashi]

Hi, I guess this is one of those threads that goes on and on...;)

I have been in the situation you are in before, the client knows what it
wants but its elusive. It's best to just demand a design from them and
implement it. Even if you hate it, they get what they want, right?

You could go the third-party layout manager route. If you take a look at the
myriad offerings on component source, most of the products tend to imitate
the UI of MS Office. Most of the animation components seem to be OCX
wrappers. And expensive ones at that!
http://www.componentsource.com/Catal...0%7EA200&ul=en

Which is all great but I think the next stage is using DirectX on the form.
Perhaps for compatability and performance issues it may be infeasible, but
with modern hardware and bandwith, and in certain use case scenarios, it
just might work. It would certainly be a miracle to design a DX UI on your
timetable, but it's still worth checking out I think.

Hope that helps! If you want to see some examples and talk further feel free
to contact me directly.

ok,
aq

"Michael Conroy" <Mi***********@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:97**********************************@microsof t.com...

Thanks again...

The application is a smart client app that was originally spec'd to be a Web app. The deployment model, however, mandates that some clients will NEVER be connected. So, those who maintain connectivity get regular updates through the App Updater Block. I'm trying to use the UIP App block, but I haven't
decided if it's really what I want just yet.

The app is a refactored construct stemming from multiple versions of the
same basic codebase. I'm employing a "factory" approach to make the core
code as extensible as possible. This includes building application tools to help create and configure the final deliverables.

Presentation layer is extremely important. My client base has given me the impression that the traditional Windows Forms L&F is outdated. Mind you -
this is only my impression - and may be biased through a number of other
sources. Thus, I'm looking for ways to spice up presentation. Being a Money and InstallShield, and (obviously) VS.NET user, I like the whole hypertext, pretty graphics L&F. Trouble is - when I go to make WinForms, I feel like
I'm restricted to the toolbox palette. A nice layout manager would be
welcome. I know the new stuff is coming out with all that, but my
deliverable target is May/June. (Which is awfully ambitious - but sleep is optional.) I'm currently running VS2003 with DNF1.1.

That's a synposis of my objective. Where might I find some examples of the rich UI stuff you've mentioned?

Cheers,
Michael

"Ahmed Qurashi" wrote:

In .Net 2.0 (VS2005) a WinForm control is introduced called the WebBrowser

control. It exposes a wrapper around the OCX IE control and I believe has greater flexibility in terms of UI and Data events. Performance-wise, I
think you are going to pay for it tho ;)

The inductive method provides the "don't make me think" simplicity of an
online web application look and feel within the client form context. But
actually consuming .aspx data within the form may have usability advantages in that it can be consistant across different platforms.

I find it interesting that you tend toward an HTML interface as being
graphically "rich". I lean more toward the idea that an inductive WinForm which can utilize dynamically generated GDI+ bitmaps and handle UI and Data events via Timer based animations is the way to go. Now, with Managed
DirectX in the WinForm, this design method blows away anything I've seen in the aspx space. I even experimented with Macromedia's Flash Remoting for
..Net to try to get something silmilar, but in Avalon with the Animation
class and TimeLines I think inductive UIs are clearly moving more toward
storyboarding, motion graphics and game design than the static web
experience.

It all depends on what you are trying to architect and how to be as
productive at it as possible. What is your target audience and use case
scenario for the apps you are looking to build?

ok,
aq

"Michael Conroy" <Mi***********@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:09**********************************@microsof t.com...

Ahmed,

Thank you for your prompt response. The article is indeed illuminating,

and

although I was aware of this approach (as a Money user), I wasn't

aware of its name. However, I'm still in limbo about the architecture. I want to use

the HTML style approach, but I'm curious about hosting the ASP.NET

runtime within my app. I'm able to do it, but it is a memory pig. I'm wondering if

others have taken this UI approach and how they have done it. I know

the

WinForms model provides levels of flexibility with respect to user
interaction that may make it a better choice - however, the graphical
richness of the HTML style interface, coupled with a few other design
objectives including an "online" look-and-feel, as well as the desire

to be

able to open Word docs right within the app make it seem like the

Browser control is a good idea. Just looking for reassurance...or even derision - but SOME kind of bellwether would be great.

Best,
Michael

"Ahmed Qurashi" wrote:

> See Microsoft Inductive User Interface Guidelines:
>

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...guidelines.asp

>
> MS Money is one of the case studies ;)
>
> ok,
> aq
>
> "Michael Conroy" <Mi***********@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in

message

> news:B7**********************************@microsof t.com...
> > I like the MS Money and InstallShield interfaces (at least, I like the > > hypertext, Web based appearance.) I would like to provide such a

front

> end
> > to my Windows Form application. However, I'm leary of the IE Web

Browser

> > control. I don't even know if this is a prudent design decision owing to

> the
> > extra overhead of having to parse HTML and ASPX pages. Can

anybody > provide
> > guidance about hosting and interacting with Web-style content in a
> WinForms
> > app?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Mike
>
>
>