Is "Whidbey" going to de-skill developers ?

[Fresh Air Rider]

Hi Everyone

Thanks for your replies and thanks to everyone for making such an
interesting discussion.

After working very hard to get my Computer Science degree and
investing my own hard earnt money heavily in MSDN subscriptions and
programming books etc just to keep my skills up to date, I began to
wonder if it had all been worthwhile now that the forthcoming ASP.Net
2.0 (Whidbey) seems to be abstracting much of the techniques that I
had learnt to "hand code".

For instance, I was particularly pleased with my implementation of
Roles Based Forms Authentication that I had mastered in C# but now I
understand that it will all be wasted now that this functionality will
be covered by the new Membership classes.

I fully understand that by definition, IT is a constantly evolving
industry but it does make me worry that the very systems that we use
to improve business efficiency could one day make the role of the
qualified developer redundant.

Maybe this is what Microsoft are working towards or maybe I'm just a
Luddite.

What are your thoughts ?

[rkc]

Fresh Air Rider wrote:

I fully understand that by definition, IT is a constantly evolving
industry but it does make me worry that the very systems that we use
to improve business efficiency could one day make the role of the
qualified developer redundant.

Maybe this is what Microsoft are working towards or maybe I'm just a
Luddite.

What are your thoughts ?

Many people make a good living fixing MS Access applications that
were created by non-technical office staff using the wonderful
wizards available to them. The wizards are just powerful enough to
enable the creation of applications that show how valuable an
application that actually worked could be.

[Bradley1234]

After working very hard to get my Computer Science degree and
investing my own hard earnt money
hard EARNED money (but sounds like earnt I guess)

heavily in MSDN subscriptions and programming books etc just to keep my skills up to date, I began to
wonder if it had all been worthwhile now that the forthcoming ASP.Net
2.0 (Whidbey) seems to be abstracting much of the techniques that I
had learnt to "hand code".

For instance, I was particularly pleased with my implementation of
Roles Based Forms Authentication that I had mastered in C# but now I
understand that it will all be wasted now that this functionality will
be covered by the new Membership classes.

I fully understand that by definition, IT is a constantly evolving
industry but it does make me worry that the very systems that we use
to improve business efficiency could one day make the role of the
qualified developer redundant.

Maybe this is what Microsoft are working towards or maybe I'm just a
Luddite.

What are your thoughts ?

Its like Deja Vu all over again. You learn how to write in a language, then
the language goes away and you have to learn new ways. You learn the new
thing and after 4 years of not using the old language, somebody asks you to
take a test to see if youre qualified but you forgot certain C syntax and
which h. file has what and you get a 53% score on the C test and it makes
you feel really dumb, then the hiring company wonders if you ever knew C at
all.

Dont get to accustomed to a single skill, its going to get obsolete, the
only constant thing is change.

Its like going from Tube tvs to transistor, lots of people did not want to
learn what transistors were; OR with cars and fuel injection vs carbs; or
with smog controls

You gotta ride the wave and react in real time. cowabunga

[basecamp]

ba humbug xmas and new year ho ho ho
one good thing about this is that all my cigarettes have gone in the
system.net.crap.ashtray.
well you know this if you want to be a player then c++ is where its at
and c# will be the major rival to java.
vb.net and vb should have been drowned at birth all except for
the old ASP which was the best bit of scripting fun that i have had in ages.
go for your MCP in c# or get your MCAD its gotta be the best way forward

"Fresh Air Rider" wrote:

Hi Everyone

Thanks for your replies and thanks to everyone for making such an
interesting discussion.

After working very hard to get my Computer Science degree and
investing my own hard earnt money heavily in MSDN subscriptions and
programming books etc just to keep my skills up to date, I began to
wonder if it had all been worthwhile now that the forthcoming ASP.Net
2.0 (Whidbey) seems to be abstracting much of the techniques that I
had learnt to "hand code".

For instance, I was particularly pleased with my implementation of
Roles Based Forms Authentication that I had mastered in C# but now I
understand that it will all be wasted now that this functionality will
be covered by the new Membership classes.

I fully understand that by definition, IT is a constantly evolving
industry but it does make me worry that the very systems that we use
to improve business efficiency could one day make the role of the
qualified developer redundant.

Maybe this is what Microsoft are working towards or maybe I'm just a
Luddite.

What are your thoughts ?

[Nick Malik [Microsoft]]

Hi FAR,

This is too easy, and perhaps a cheap shot, but:

After working very hard to get my Computer Science degree and
investing my own hard earnt money heavily in MSDN subscriptions and
perhaps you should invest in a few grammar lessons as well.
I began to
wonder if it had all been worthwhile now that the forthcoming ASP.Net
2.0 (Whidbey) seems to be abstracting much of the techniques that I
had learnt to "hand code".
oh, gosh, did we forget to tell you? Everything you learn is obsolete in
three years.
What an oversight! Quick, let's find someone who will refund all that money
you spent on your education.

Look, if you wanted to study something that would be applicable 20 years
from now, you really should have picked art history (no offense to art
historians intended). I mean, think about it. Every field changes. Some
more quickly than others, but I'm hard pressed to imagine a field that
doesn't change. (Even art history).

Silliness aside, the principles of computing change rather slowly. I wrote
a blog LAST WEEK that refers to topic in compiler theory that I learned, in
college, in 1982. Your education won't go to waste.

That said, some schmuck or another has been paying me to have fun, writing
software, for 24 years and counting. I'm still amazed that I can have so
much fun doing something that I get paid for... and as I look back on the
last 24 years, I cannot pinpoint a single two year period where I used the
same skills at the beginning of the two year period as I was using at the
end. No exceptions.
it does make me worry that the very systems that we use
to improve business efficiency could one day make the role of the
qualified developer redundant.

Wouldn't that be great! Wow! I'd love to fire all the "qualified
developers" and just keep the architects and designers around to design
solutions and "ping" they'd come into existence... complete with design bugs
and misconceptions about the requirements :-).

Ha!

The languages change, but the problems remain, because the problems aren't
in the language... they are in the people. And, one thing that doesn't
change: us.

Programmers of tomorrow won't do the same things as programmers of today.
There may be different titles, and different roles, and different
expectations, but there will ALWAYS be problem solvers who use technology
and mathematics and logic to craft solutions to problems that are so nuts,
only a human being could have originated them.

And you and I will be there to solve those problems.

So don't fret about Whidbey. If I were you, I'd fret about my grammar first
:-).

--
--- Nick Malik [Microsoft]
MCSD, CFPS, Certified Scrummaster
http://blogs.msdn.com/nickmalik

Disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this forum are my own, and not
representative of my employer.
I do not answer questions on behalf of my employer. I'm just a
programmer helping programmers.
--

[The Man With The Golden Gun]

basecamp wrote:

go for your MCP in c# or get your MCAD its gotta be the best way
forward

Try walking into Linux shop with the MCAD and count the seconds before they
start laughing.

--
"You see, in this world there are two types of people, my friend:
those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
-C. Eastwood, G,B&U

[Daniel O'Connell [C# MVP]]

"The Man With The Golden Gun" <ro***@moore.bond.007> wrote in message
news:k8*******************@newsread1.news.pas.eart hlink.net...

basecamp wrote:

go for your MCP in c# or get your MCAD its gotta be the best way
forward

Try walking into Linux shop with the MCAD and count the seconds before
they
start laughing.

That is, if you can actually enter a linux shop without laughing, ;).

[basecamp]

well the argument reigns for those who jump in with both feet then ask
questions after. My reply was for the guy who had spent his money then
had a problem justifying it!!. If he wants to work with windows then i
offered what would be his best track. But you insult my intelligence, i may
dig but i tend to dig
up people who have used loaded guns and paid the price. Perhaps my version
of the english language is different from yours ( probably because i am
english ).
I never mentioned what system or what qualifications i have.
I write for both windows and yes LINUX a superb server system but as a
desktop
( not for the masses just yet ). So i guess my gun is loaded, just had to
point in the
right direction eh!

"The Man With The Golden Gun" wrote:

basecamp wrote:

go for your MCP in c# or get your MCAD its gotta be the best way
forward

Try walking into Linux shop with the MCAD and count the seconds before they
start laughing.

--
"You see, in this world there are two types of people, my friend:
those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
-C. Eastwood, G,B&U

[nev]

Why should anyone with an MCAD go into a Linux shop and make a mention of it??
That comment is as good as a gun with no bullets in it;)

"The Man With The Golden Gun" wrote:

Try walking into Linux shop with the MCAD and count the seconds before they
start laughing.

[Eric]

The Man With The Golden Gun wrote:

Try walking into Linux shop with the MCAD and count the seconds
before they start laughing.

But they'll repect you much more if you're wearing a Microsoft
tee-shirt!