.NET compliants for users

I am trying to develop .NET programs because the development cycle is
multiple times faster.
But our clients complain that in order to use that, they have to install
..NET first and to do that they need to have administrator rights, so here
comes a lot of paperwork to get one of the IT's to come and install it for
them. (Company policy)

So I am beeing asked to drop .NET and start recreating the program avoiding
..NET and use MFC again.
This is not actually on my wishlist, since it takes 7 times more to do that
same thing.

Have other people problems with this too?

[Jay]

Tell the IT people to get off their behinds and install the framework
If they are paying you by the hour then they will soon reap the benefits

Jay

[Jay]

Tell the IT people to get off their behinds and install the framework
If they are paying you by the hour then they will soon reap the benefits

Jay

[Josip Medved]

> But our clients complain that in order to use that, they have to install

.NET first and to do that they need to have administrator rights, so here
comes a lot of paperwork to get one of the IT's to come and install it for
them. (Company policy)
Try to arrange meting with someone over IT's... it is not too difficult to
make .NET Framework minimal requirement on all machines. In all
companies I work for .NET Framework has same status like Service
Packs and Hot Fixes - MUST have. Just talk to the boss.
So I am beeing asked to drop .NET and start recreating the program avoiding .NET and use MFC again.
It sounds me like "Let's all drive bikes. We have too much paperwork if we
wish
to drive car."
This is not actually on my wishlist, since it takes 7 times more to do that same thing.

agree...

--

Pozdrav,
Josip Medved, MCSD
http://www.jmedved.com

[Josip Medved]

> But our clients complain that in order to use that, they have to install

.NET first and to do that they need to have administrator rights, so here
comes a lot of paperwork to get one of the IT's to come and install it for
them. (Company policy)
Try to arrange meting with someone over IT's... it is not too difficult to
make .NET Framework minimal requirement on all machines. In all
companies I work for .NET Framework has same status like Service
Packs and Hot Fixes - MUST have. Just talk to the boss.
So I am beeing asked to drop .NET and start recreating the program avoiding .NET and use MFC again.
It sounds me like "Let's all drive bikes. We have too much paperwork if we
wish
to drive car."
This is not actually on my wishlist, since it takes 7 times more to do that same thing.

agree...

--

Pozdrav,
Josip Medved, MCSD
http://www.jmedved.com

[Cor Ligthert]

> Tell the IT people to get off their behinds and install the framework.

If they are paying you by the hour then they will soon reap the benefits.

Very good said Jay

Cor

[Cor Ligthert]

> Tell the IT people to get off their behinds and install the framework.

If they are paying you by the hour then they will soon reap the benefits.

Very good said Jay

Cor

I am also IT, so I have been installing .net on all the machines preparing
for the flood of .NET programs coming oit.

Try to arrange meting with someone over IT's... it is not too difficult to
make .NET Framework minimal requirement on all machines. In all
companies I work for .NET Framework has same status like Service
Packs and Hot Fixes - MUST have. Just talk to the boss.

The big problem is that it is the boss of other companies we try to sell our
software too.
It is the IT form those companies that complain. And in my opinion they
should not, since it is redicilious simple to install.

So,do people here have good arguments that could convince these people to
start installing .NET on all machines default?
One good point would that XP SP2 contains the .NET framework default, but so
far it is not.

So I am beeing asked to drop .NET and start recreating the program
avoiding .NET and use MFC again.

It sounds me like "Let's all drive bikes. We have too much paperwork if we
wish to drive car."

Yes just like that. In reality this means that I will need 7 months to
redesign the proram in VC++ unmanaged code with mfc to recreate the same
program. :-(
I would prefer to add 7 times more functionality to this program in that
same time period.

I am also IT, so I have been installing .net on all the machines preparing
for the flood of .NET programs coming oit.

Try to arrange meting with someone over IT's... it is not too difficult to
make .NET Framework minimal requirement on all machines. In all
companies I work for .NET Framework has same status like Service
Packs and Hot Fixes - MUST have. Just talk to the boss.

The big problem is that it is the boss of other companies we try to sell our
software too.
It is the IT form those companies that complain. And in my opinion they
should not, since it is redicilious simple to install.

So,do people here have good arguments that could convince these people to
start installing .NET on all machines default?
One good point would that XP SP2 contains the .NET framework default, but so
far it is not.

So I am beeing asked to drop .NET and start recreating the program
avoiding .NET and use MFC again.

It sounds me like "Let's all drive bikes. We have too much paperwork if we
wish to drive car."

Yes just like that. In reality this means that I will need 7 months to
redesign the proram in VC++ unmanaged code with mfc to recreate the same
program. :-(
I would prefer to add 7 times more functionality to this program in that
same time period.

[Josip Medved]

> So,do people here have good arguments that could convince these people to

start installing .NET on all machines default?¸
only money... you can charge more for legacy (c++ or else) programs... it
worked
for me...
One good point would that XP SP2 contains the .NET framework default, but so far it is not.
I wait for that moment too...

It sounds me like "Let's all drive bikes. We have too much paperwork if we wish to drive car."

Yes just like that. In reality this means that I will need 7 months to
redesign the proram in VC++ unmanaged code with mfc to recreate the same
program. :-(

Get payed by hour...
Sad thing is that, if they have seen development speed with .NET, it will be
weird to them why it takes longer to make same program... :(

--

Pozdrav,
Josip Medved, MCSD
http://www.jmedved.com

[Josip Medved]

> So,do people here have good arguments that could convince these people to

start installing .NET on all machines default?¸
only money... you can charge more for legacy (c++ or else) programs... it
worked
for me...
One good point would that XP SP2 contains the .NET framework default, but so far it is not.
I wait for that moment too...

It sounds me like "Let's all drive bikes. We have too much paperwork if we wish to drive car."

Yes just like that. In reality this means that I will need 7 months to
redesign the proram in VC++ unmanaged code with mfc to recreate the same
program. :-(

Get payed by hour...
Sad thing is that, if they have seen development speed with .NET, it will be
weird to them why it takes longer to make same program... :(

--

Pozdrav,
Josip Medved, MCSD
http://www.jmedved.com

> > So,do people here have good arguments that could convince these people
to

start installing .NET on all machines default?¸
only money... you can charge more for legacy (c++ or else) programs... it
worked for me...

Sometimes I have the impression that people are afraid to start using
technology that is new, they prefer to stick with old technology since they
understand how it works. I actually know people that refuse to install this
..NET because it slows down their computer, but we all know now that this is
not the case.

Yes just like that. In reality this means that I will need 7 months to
redesign the proram in VC++ unmanaged code with mfc to recreate the same
program. :-(

Get payed by hour...
Sad thing is that, if they have seen development speed with .NET, it will

be weird to them why it takes longer to make same program... :(

I get payed by the hour. :-)
Typical for none-prorammers: If they see a button then they think everything
is working. ;-)

> > So,do people here have good arguments that could convince these people
to

start installing .NET on all machines default?¸
only money... you can charge more for legacy (c++ or else) programs... it
worked for me...

Sometimes I have the impression that people are afraid to start using
technology that is new, they prefer to stick with old technology since they
understand how it works. I actually know people that refuse to install this
..NET because it slows down their computer, but we all know now that this is
not the case.

Yes just like that. In reality this means that I will need 7 months to
redesign the proram in VC++ unmanaged code with mfc to recreate the same
program. :-(

Get payed by hour...
Sad thing is that, if they have seen development speed with .NET, it will

be weird to them why it takes longer to make same program... :(

I get payed by the hour. :-)
Typical for none-prorammers: If they see a button then they think everything
is working. ;-)

[Willy Denoyette [MVP]]

One great tool is to use IntelliMirror with Group policy in a secure domain
environment, this is designed to work with MS Installer , so to get the most
of it you need to deploy using MSI files.
Check Technet and MSDN for details.

Willy.

<Ol**********@skyscan.be> wrote in message
news:40***********************@news.skynet.be...

I am also IT, so I have been installing .net on all the machines preparing
for the flood of .NET programs coming oit.

Try to arrange meting with someone over IT's... it is not too difficult
to
make .NET Framework minimal requirement on all machines. In all
companies I work for .NET Framework has same status like Service
Packs and Hot Fixes - MUST have. Just talk to the boss.

The big problem is that it is the boss of other companies we try to sell
our
software too.
It is the IT form those companies that complain. And in my opinion they
should not, since it is redicilious simple to install.

So,do people here have good arguments that could convince these people to
start installing .NET on all machines default?
One good point would that XP SP2 contains the .NET framework default, but
so
far it is not.

> So I am beeing asked to drop .NET and start recreating the program
avoiding .NET and use MFC again.

It sounds me like "Let's all drive bikes. We have too much paperwork if
we
wish to drive car."

Yes just like that. In reality this means that I will need 7 months to
redesign the proram in VC++ unmanaged code with mfc to recreate the same
program. :-(
I would prefer to add 7 times more functionality to this program in that
same time period.

[Willy Denoyette [MVP]]

One great tool is to use IntelliMirror with Group policy in a secure domain
environment, this is designed to work with MS Installer , so to get the most
of it you need to deploy using MSI files.
Check Technet and MSDN for details.

Willy.

<Ol**********@skyscan.be> wrote in message
news:40***********************@news.skynet.be...

I am also IT, so I have been installing .net on all the machines preparing
for the flood of .NET programs coming oit.

Try to arrange meting with someone over IT's... it is not too difficult
to
make .NET Framework minimal requirement on all machines. In all
companies I work for .NET Framework has same status like Service
Packs and Hot Fixes - MUST have. Just talk to the boss.

The big problem is that it is the boss of other companies we try to sell
our
software too.
It is the IT form those companies that complain. And in my opinion they
should not, since it is redicilious simple to install.

So,do people here have good arguments that could convince these people to
start installing .NET on all machines default?
One good point would that XP SP2 contains the .NET framework default, but
so
far it is not.

> So I am beeing asked to drop .NET and start recreating the program
avoiding .NET and use MFC again.

It sounds me like "Let's all drive bikes. We have too much paperwork if
we
wish to drive car."

Yes just like that. In reality this means that I will need 7 months to
redesign the proram in VC++ unmanaged code with mfc to recreate the same
program. :-(
I would prefer to add 7 times more functionality to this program in that
same time period.

[Josip Medved]

> Sometimes I have the impression that people are afraid to start using

technology that is new, they prefer to stick with old technology since they understand how it works. I actually know people that refuse to install this

very true... :(

Get payed by hour...
Sad thing is that, if they have seen development speed with .NET, it

will be weird to them why it takes longer to make same program... :( I get payed by the hour. :-)
Typical for none-prorammers: If they see a button then they think everything is working. ;-)

what's your problem then... :) get rich! :)))

--

Pozdrav,
Josip Medved, MCSD
http://www.jmedved.com

[Josip Medved]

> Sometimes I have the impression that people are afraid to start using

technology that is new, they prefer to stick with old technology since they understand how it works. I actually know people that refuse to install this

very true... :(

Get payed by hour...
Sad thing is that, if they have seen development speed with .NET, it

will be weird to them why it takes longer to make same program... :( I get payed by the hour. :-)
Typical for none-prorammers: If they see a button then they think everything is working. ;-)

what's your problem then... :) get rich! :)))

--

Pozdrav,
Josip Medved, MCSD
http://www.jmedved.com

> > I get payed by the hour. :-)

what's your problem then... :) get rich! :)))

Not commercial enough, I am a nice guy that would do anything for free. :-)

> > I get payed by the hour. :-)

what's your problem then... :) get rich! :)))

Not commercial enough, I am a nice guy that would do anything for free. :-)

[Josip Medved]

> > what's your problem then... :) get rich! :)))

Not commercial enough, I am a nice guy that would do anything for free.

:-)

:))

don't ever say "anything for free"... it could be missinterpreted... :))

--

Pozdrav,
Josip Medved, MCSD
http://www.jmedved.com

[Josip Medved]

> > what's your problem then... :) get rich! :)))

Not commercial enough, I am a nice guy that would do anything for free.

:-)

:))

don't ever say "anything for free"... it could be missinterpreted... :))

--

Pozdrav,
Josip Medved, MCSD
http://www.jmedved.com

> > > what's your problem then... :) get rich! :)))

Not commercial enough, I am a nice guy that would do anything for free.

:-)

:))

don't ever say "anything for free"... it could be missinterpreted... :))

:-)

I meant that I reinvest everything I earn into learning new technology and
my girlfriend. :-)
I might not have a bunch of money on my account at the end of my life, but I
wil have had a very interesting life. :-)

These are exciting times! This .NET technology is going to speed up new
technology design in a fast away.
We are reaching Star Trek like technology. :-) (I saw some previews of
Longhorn)

> > > what's your problem then... :) get rich! :)))

Not commercial enough, I am a nice guy that would do anything for free.

:-)

:))

don't ever say "anything for free"... it could be missinterpreted... :))

:-)

I meant that I reinvest everything I earn into learning new technology and
my girlfriend. :-)
I might not have a bunch of money on my account at the end of my life, but I
wil have had a very interesting life. :-)

These are exciting times! This .NET technology is going to speed up new
technology design in a fast away.
We are reaching Star Trek like technology. :-) (I saw some previews of
Longhorn)

[Josip Medved]

> I meant that I reinvest everything I earn into learning new technology and

my girlfriend. :-)
I might not have a bunch of money on my account at the end of my life, but I wil have had a very interesting life. :-)
that I can agree since I live similar life... :)
We are reaching Star Trek like technology. :-) (I saw some previews of
Longhorn)

well, I am not too happy with it... I tried to install PDC on two machines
and
install crashed on both of them... next week i will sacrifice another
machine
to see how longhorn and whidbey go together... until then...

--

Pozdrav,
Josip Medved, MCSD
http://www.jmedved.com

[Josip Medved]

> I meant that I reinvest everything I earn into learning new technology and

my girlfriend. :-)
I might not have a bunch of money on my account at the end of my life, but I wil have had a very interesting life. :-)
that I can agree since I live similar life... :)
We are reaching Star Trek like technology. :-) (I saw some previews of
Longhorn)

well, I am not too happy with it... I tried to install PDC on two machines
and
install crashed on both of them... next week i will sacrifice another
machine
to see how longhorn and whidbey go together... until then...

--

Pozdrav,
Josip Medved, MCSD
http://www.jmedved.com

> > I meant that I reinvest everything I earn into learning new technology
and

my girlfriend. :-)
I might not have a bunch of money on my account at the end of my life, but

I

wil have had a very interesting life. :-)

that I can agree since I live similar life... :)

:-) And I don't drink beer but liters of coffee. :-)
We are reaching Star Trek like technology. :-) (I saw some previews of
Longhorn)

well, I am not too happy with it... I tried to install PDC on two machines
and install crashed on both of them... next week i will sacrifice another
machine to see how longhorn and whidbey go together... until then...

"sacrifixe". :-) Nice word. :-)
I installed XP SP2 last week, and did have installation problems, but they
got resolved and I am happy with it. :-)
I like the fact that Longhorn have the 3D graphics card as desktop. :-) 3D
buttons are rlally 3D. :-)

> > I meant that I reinvest everything I earn into learning new technology
and

my girlfriend. :-)
I might not have a bunch of money on my account at the end of my life, but

I

wil have had a very interesting life. :-)

that I can agree since I live similar life... :)

:-) And I don't drink beer but liters of coffee. :-)
We are reaching Star Trek like technology. :-) (I saw some previews of
Longhorn)

well, I am not too happy with it... I tried to install PDC on two machines
and install crashed on both of them... next week i will sacrifice another
machine to see how longhorn and whidbey go together... until then...

"sacrifixe". :-) Nice word. :-)
I installed XP SP2 last week, and did have installation problems, but they
got resolved and I am happy with it. :-)
I like the fact that Longhorn have the 3D graphics card as desktop. :-) 3D
buttons are rlally 3D. :-)

[Josip Medved]

> :-) And I don't drink beer but liters of coffee. :-)

shame... every programmer should drink beer... lot of it...
it comes handy when dealing with customers... :))

"sacrifixe". :-) Nice word. :-)

:))

--

Pozdrav,
Josip Medved, MCSD
http://www.jmedved.com

[Josip Medved]

> :-) And I don't drink beer but liters of coffee. :-)

shame... every programmer should drink beer... lot of it...
it comes handy when dealing with customers... :))

"sacrifixe". :-) Nice word. :-)

:))

--

Pozdrav,
Josip Medved, MCSD
http://www.jmedved.com

> > :-) And I don't drink beer but liters of coffee. :-)

shame... every programmer should drink beer... lot of it...
it comes handy when dealing with customers... :))

I prefer Polish Vodka or STroh Rhum of 80%. :-)

But so far no one on this newsgroup has solved my problem how to define a
strong named application that this public key inside the exe is allowed to
be trusted for opening Network files.
The current solution is through Control panel, administrative tools,... .NET
wzard.... But I want to have this done either by the program itself, during
installation or by adding a singel line to the app.exe.config file. The
permissions are set to all, but the policy must also be set.

I see tons of documents about security, policy,.... enough to read it for
the rest of my life, but somewhere hidden in these trillion lines of code
must be a simple sollutions.
It would be nice that if I XCopy the application to a new computer that this
application is automatic configured to access the network files too.

Can this be defined in applic.exe.conf? As some line:
Something like: 'NetworkZone=FullTrust' ????

Thanks. :-)

> But so far no one on this newsgroup has solved my problem how to define a

strong named application that this public key inside the exe is allowed to
be trusted for opening Network files.
The current solution is through Control panel, administrative tools,... ..NET wzard.... But I want to have this done either by the program itself, during installation or by adding a singel line to the app.exe.config file. The
permissions are set to all, but the policy must also be set.

I see tons of documents about security, policy,.... enough to read it for
the rest of my life, but somewhere hidden in these trillion lines of code
must be a simple sollutions.
It would be nice that if I XCopy the application to a new computer that this application is automatic configured to access the network files too.

Can this be defined in applic.exe.conf? As some line:
Something like: 'NetworkZone=FullTrust' ????

To add to my question: I already use:
[assembly:ZoneIdentityPermission(SecurityAction.Req uestMinimum,Zone=Security
Zone.NoZone)]

in my assembly.cs (C#) project.

Can I also add some line like
[assembly:ZoneIdentityPolicy(SecurityAction,LocalIn tranet=SecurityZone.FullT
rust)] or something like this?
or in the myapp.exe.cconfig file?

[Josip Medved]

> Can I also add some line like

[assembly:ZoneIdentityPolicy(SecurityAction,LocalIn tranet=SecurityZone.FullT rust)] or something like this?
or in the myapp.exe.cconfig file?

No, that would mean that any program can elevate its priviledges without
user
authorization...

--

Pozdrav,
Josip Medved, MCSD
http://www.jmedved.com

[Josip Medved]

> Can I also add some line like

[assembly:ZoneIdentityPolicy(SecurityAction,LocalIn tranet=SecurityZone.FullT rust)] or something like this?
or in the myapp.exe.cconfig file?

No, that would mean that any program can elevate its priviledges without
user
authorization...

--

Pozdrav,
Josip Medved, MCSD
http://www.jmedved.com

[Josip Medved]

> I prefer Polish Vodka or STroh Rhum of 80%. :-)

:)

Can this be defined in applic.exe.conf? As some line:
Something like: 'NetworkZone=FullTrust' ????

I don't think that there is a solution. AFAIK You MUST go
through proper procedure... if any other way was possible,
it would make a huge security problem since any program
could access everything...

--

Pozdrav,
Josip Medved, MCSD
http://www.jmedved.com

[Josip Medved]

> I prefer Polish Vodka or STroh Rhum of 80%. :-)

:)

Can this be defined in applic.exe.conf? As some line:
Something like: 'NetworkZone=FullTrust' ????

I don't think that there is a solution. AFAIK You MUST go
through proper procedure... if any other way was possible,
it would make a huge security problem since any program
could access everything...

--

Pozdrav,
Josip Medved, MCSD
http://www.jmedved.com

> > Can this be defined in applic.exe.conf? As some line:

Something like: 'NetworkZone=FullTrust' ????

I don't think that there is a solution. AFAIK You MUST go
through proper procedure... if any other way was possible,
it would make a huge security problem since any program
could access everything...

You are right about this, and I was afraid of that because of the security
risk, but I had to ask since you never now that there exist a miracle
solution.
This means educating the users how to do this. :-) In 1 year everybody
probably knows how to do this, but at this moment, not many computer users
know how to do this so they resist.

Choosing the right balans between security and ease of use is not always
easy.

[Josip Medved]

> This means educating the users how to do this. :-) In 1 year everybody

probably knows how to do this, but at this moment, not many computer users
know how to do this so they resist.

I think that biggest problem I had when going onto .NET platform was taking
some sence into users heads. They've heard that .NET has securitiy flaws,
they've heard that it is slow, they've heard that it will cause world to
collapse...
all heard and nothing proven... but, after some time, when they got used to
it, they are much easier to work with... they even know how to use .NET
Framework Wizards... :))

--

Pozdrav,
Josip Medved, MCSD
http://www.jmedved.com

> I think that biggest problem I had when going onto .NET platform was
taking

some sence into users heads. They've heard that .NET has securitiy flaws,
they've heard that it is slow, they've heard that it will cause world to
collapse...
The same problem here. Resistanse for the unknown.
I had it too, I was also convinced that it was like Java, or only for
Internet applications, for one year I avoided it.
But now that I know it, I am convinced that this is the future to go. It
makes programming a lot easier.
all heard and nothing proven... but, after some time, when they got used to it, they are much easier to work with... they even know how to use .NET
Framework Wizards... :))

..NET programs are far more user friendly!
And more and more people will like it when they are less vunerable for bugs,
virusses and worms. :-)

I remember those days that people didn't want to go to Windows 95. The
refused they didn't need it. :-)