Some general questions on C++ .Net, and Form Design in Particular

[Steven O.]

I am basically a hobbyist programmer, at the moment doing a little
work experimenting with some AI stuff. I learned C++, and then tried
to teach myself MFC using MS Visual C++ 6.0. I swore off of MFC,
which was a nightmare, and have been playing with Borlands C++
Builder. In C++ Builder, creating forms and other GUI elements is
much simpler than MFC, very similar to Visual Basic.

In the store yesterday, I was looking at the C++ .Net package. On the
back, it still mentioned MFC (boo!), but it also claimed that the .Net
environment has a user-friendly forms builder. My question: How
friendly, and how good?

What I'd be looking for is something like the Visual Basic technology:
You select a new form, there's your form on screen. You have a
palette of widgets (text boxes, scroll boxes, buttons, check boxes,
etc.), and you can drag them to the form and place them easily. For
any widget (I forget the formal, technical term), VB provided a list
of both properties you could set, and also all the functions that
could be called for that widget. If you've used it, I'm really
wasting bandwidth here, you know how easy it is. My question, then,
essential, is whether creating display forms in Microsoft's C++ .Net
environment is just as easy as doing so, or very nearly as easy as
doing so, in Visual Basic? I want to be able to focus on underlying
algorithms, and have my GUI display design be EASY.

Another question: Will programs written and compiled under .Net run
on Win2K (which I have on my computer) and Win 98/95?

Also, are there any rude surprises I might want to know about in
advance before venturing into the .Net world?

Thanks in advance for all replies.

Steve O.

Standard Antiflame Disclaimer: Please don't flame me. I may actually *be* an idiot, but even idiots have feelings.

[lewi]

Note: Haven't used Visual Basic or C++ Builder...

to teach myself MFC using MS Visual C++ 6.0. I swore off of MFC,
which was a nightmare, and have been playing with Borlands C++ Creating MFC dlg is really simple for just using the dlg the app wizard
builds for dlg app then you just have and add some controls, set their
properties, add handlers and do some touch up coding...
In the store yesterday, I was looking at the C++ .Net package. On the
back, it still mentioned MFC (boo!), but it also claimed that the .Net
environment has a user-friendly forms builder. My question: How
friendly, and how good?

VS .NET dlg editor for an Unmanaged C++ is more organized than in VS 6.0 and
MFC has only a few changes. Now Managed C++ is different cause you get to
tap into the power of the .NET framework(MFC isn't the native framework for
Managed C++) which is total different from MFC, however there is no dlg
editor for Managed C++ app so all dlg(and windows - all windows are truely
considered forms in the .NET framework) are create by code...

With C# you can go back to using a form editor and VS .NET will build the
code(like the code you need to use for Managed C++ but coded in C#) for you.
Also .NET framework not MFC is the native framework...

[Scott McPhillips [MVP]]

Steven O. wrote:

I am basically a hobbyist programmer,

I have seen this post about 10 times and places. Would you please learn
how to cross post instead of multipost? Have you seen any of the
answers you got?

--
Scott McPhillips [VC++ MVP]

[Steven O.]

There are some problems with the news server I use (Verizon), and
sometimes it's hard to tell if there were replies but Verizon is not
getting them -- or if no one replied. So I wind up posting multiple
places.

Try to ignore it, it's not the end of the world.

On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 22:14:04 -0500, "Scott McPhillips [MVP]"
<sc******@mvps.org.nowhere> wrote:

Steven O. wrote:

I am basically a hobbyist programmer,

I have seen this post about 10 times and places. Would you please learn
how to cross post instead of multipost? Have you seen any of the
answers you got?

Standard Antiflame Disclaimer: Please don't flame me. I may actually *be* an idiot, but even idiots have feelings.

[Steven O.]

Actually, I should add another reason why I posted so many times: I
*have* read some of the answers, and some of them are not very clear!
I work as a technical writer, and I know many techie-type people do
their best to communicate, but tend to make a lot of assumptions. At
least a few answers have been totally obscure, using condensed
verbiage and acronyms. Other replies have been along the lines of:
"What's so hard about building a GUI with MFC!? Just... <37 steps
follow> ... and you're done (with placing your first control on the
form)!"

I exagerate slightly, for fun -- and I really do appreciate that
people have tried to answer -- but so far I have yet to get a really
clear answer, something which reads like:

(a) "Yes, creating a GUI with Microsoft's C++ .Net is truly just as
simple, or very nearly as simple, as creating a GUI with Visual
Basic." or...

(b) "No, creating a GUI with MS's C++ .Net is substantially more
involved than in Visual Basic. You have more control over what you
are doing, but the price is a real leaning curve to get up to speed."

Of course, maybe it's my fault, maybe I should post my questions as
multiple choice. In any event, I'm just trying to find out if I
should plunk down significant money to switch from Borland to .Net,
and you'll forgive me (or not) if I'm persistent about getting a clear
answer.

Steve O.

On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 22:14:04 -0500, "Scott McPhillips [MVP]"
<sc******@mvps.org.nowhere> wrote:

Steven O. wrote:

I am basically a hobbyist programmer,

I have seen this post about 10 times and places. Would you please learn
how to cross post instead of multipost? Have you seen any of the
answers you got?

Standard Antiflame Disclaimer: Please don't flame me. I may actually *be* an idiot, but even idiots have feelings.

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

Steven O. <Steven@OpZZREMOVE_ALL_Zs_AND_ALL_BETWEEN_ZZComm.c om> wrote:

There are some problems with the news server I use (Verizon), and
sometimes it's hard to tell if there were replies but Verizon is not
getting them -- or if no one replied. So I wind up posting multiple
places.
I suggest you look into either changing news provider then or use
groups.google.com - the latter is a great resource.
Actually, I should add another reason why I posted so many times: I
*have* read some of the answers, and some of them are not very clear!

I would suggest that it's worth asking for further clarification in
that case, rather than asking the same question again.

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

[Hendrik Schober]

Steven O. <Steven@OpZZREMOVE_ALL_Zs_AND_ALL_BETWEEN_ZZComm.c om> wrote:

There are some problems with the news server I use (Verizon) [...]
So use msnews.microsoft.com for MS newsgroups.
sometimes it's hard to tell if there were replies but Verizon is not
getting them -- or if no one replied. So I wind up posting multiple
places.
He said you should be cross-posting, instead
of multiposting. That means, you should post
to all newsgroups at once, not to each one
individually.
I suppose Forte Agent supports that?
Try to ignore it, it's not the end of the world.
There's pretty high traffic on some of these
groups. The only way to effectively ignore
your postings would be to put you the kill
file.
However, that would make you loose potential
answers.
[...]

Schobi

--
Sp******@gmx.de is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers org

"And why should I know better by now/When I'm old enough not to?"
Beth Orton

[Tom Dacon]

(a) "Yes, creating a GUI with Microsoft's C++ .Net is truly just as
simple, or very nearly as simple, as creating a GUI with Visual
Basic." or...

That do it for you?
Tom Dacon
Dacon Software Consulting

"Steven O." <Steven@OpZZREMOVE_ALL_Zs_AND_ALL_BETWEEN_ZZComm.c om> wrote in
message news:3e********************************@4ax.com...

Actually, I should add another reason why I posted so many times: I
*have* read some of the answers, and some of them are not very clear!
I work as a technical writer, and I know many techie-type people do
their best to communicate, but tend to make a lot of assumptions. At
least a few answers have been totally obscure, using condensed
verbiage and acronyms. Other replies have been along the lines of:
"What's so hard about building a GUI with MFC!? Just... <37 steps
follow> ... and you're done (with placing your first control on the
form)!"

I exagerate slightly, for fun -- and I really do appreciate that
people have tried to answer -- but so far I have yet to get a really
clear answer, something which reads like:

(a) "Yes, creating a GUI with Microsoft's C++ .Net is truly just as
simple, or very nearly as simple, as creating a GUI with Visual
Basic." or...

(b) "No, creating a GUI with MS's C++ .Net is substantially more
involved than in Visual Basic. You have more control over what you
are doing, but the price is a real leaning curve to get up to speed."

Of course, maybe it's my fault, maybe I should post my questions as
multiple choice. In any event, I'm just trying to find out if I
should plunk down significant money to switch from Borland to .Net,
and you'll forgive me (or not) if I'm persistent about getting a clear
answer.

Steve O.

On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 22:14:04 -0500, "Scott McPhillips [MVP]"
<sc******@mvps.org.nowhere> wrote:

Steven O. wrote:

I am basically a hobbyist programmer,

I have seen this post about 10 times and places. Would you please learn
how to cross post instead of multipost? Have you seen any of the
answers you got?

Standard Antiflame Disclaimer: Please don't flame me. I may actually

*be* an idiot, but even idiots have feelings.