I've heard from various sources that Microsoft recommends dropping Hungarian
notation for .NET development but am unable to explicitly find this
recommendation or their reasons for doing so. Does anyone know if it is
true... or merely urban myth?
15  1810  http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en...guidelines.asp
"BillyTheKid" <nf*@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:uj**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... I've heard from various sources that Microsoft recommends dropping
Hungarian notation for .NET development but am unable to explicitly find this
recommendation or their reasons for doing so. Does anyone know if it is
true... or merely urban myth?
Billy,
Yes they have dropped it.
For the new recommendations see: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...Guidelines.asp http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...Guidelines.asp
For private fields, I will use Hungarian on control names. Seeing as they
are private this doesn't really matter.
I don't have a reference to why, however it has been rehashed in the
microsoft.public.dotnet newsgroups enough that searching http://groups.google.com should turn up something.
Hope this helps
Jay
"BillyTheKid" <nf*@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:uj**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... I've heard from various sources that Microsoft recommends dropping
Hungarian notation for .NET development but am unable to explicitly find this
recommendation or their reasons for doing so. Does anyone know if it is
true... or merely urban myth?
I see that it isn't in there, but it is not explicity called out as to why.
Perhaps it would be helpful to the debate if Microsoft took a more
definitive stance and explained thier reasonong.
"Jay B. Harlow [MVP - Outlook]" <Ja********@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... Billy,
Yes they have dropped it.
For the new recommendations see:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...Guidelines.asp
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...Guidelines.asp
For private fields, I will use Hungarian on control names. Seeing as they
are private this doesn't really matter.
I don't have a reference to why, however it has been rehashed in the
microsoft.public.dotnet newsgroups enough that searching
http://groups.google.com should turn up something.
Hope this helps
Jay
"BillyTheKid" <nf*@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:uj**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... I've heard from various sources that Microsoft recommends dropping
Hungarian notation for .NET development but am unable to explicitly find this
recommendation or their reasons for doing so. Does anyone know if it is
true... or merely urban myth?
Billy,
Like I said this has hashed & rehashed and turned upside down, sliced,
diced, purée, minced, mashed, ... Till the cows came home and got feed up
and left ;-)
If you need debate material, search the microsoft.public.dotnet newsgroups
at http://groups.google.com should turn up enough why.
There may actually be articles on MSDN as to the why, I just do not have
links handy. I get this vague idea that Dr Gui and or MSDN Magazine covered
the why on different occasions.
Hope this helps
Jay
"BillyTheKid" <nf*@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... I see that it isn't in there, but it is not explicity called out as to
why. Perhaps it would be helpful to the debate if Microsoft took a more
definitive stance and explained thier reasonong.
"Jay B. Harlow [MVP - Outlook]" <Ja********@email.msn.com> wrote in
message news:%2****************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... Billy,
Yes they have dropped it.
For the new recommendations see: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...Guidelines.asp
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...Guidelines.asp
For private fields, I will use Hungarian on control names. Seeing as
they are private this doesn't really matter.
I don't have a reference to why, however it has been rehashed in the
microsoft.public.dotnet newsgroups enough that searching
http://groups.google.com should turn up something.
Hope this helps
Jay
"BillyTheKid" <nf*@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:uj**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... I've heard from various sources that Microsoft recommends dropping
Hungarian notation for .NET development but am unable to explicitly find this
recommendation or their reasons for doing so. Does anyone know if it
is true... or merely urban myth?
Yes, but it makes no sense to do so.
MSFT has added capabilities so you can see the data type, etc., but real
programmers know that it is often necessary to print out code and look at
the code away from a terminal.
-- http://www.standards.com/; See Howard Kaikow's web site.
"BillyTheKid" <nf*@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:uj**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... I've heard from various sources that Microsoft recommends dropping
Hungarian notation for .NET development but am unable to explicitly find this
recommendation or their reasons for doing so. Does anyone know if it is
true... or merely urban myth?
> MSFT has added capabilities so you can see the data type, etc., but real programmers know that it is often necessary to print out code and look at
the code away from a terminal.
I'm surprised that you say that. I can't remember the last time I printed
out code for any reason, let alone to look at it away from the m/c.
Do people still do that?
Charles
"Howard Kaikow" <ka****@standards.com> wrote in message
news:Ox**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... Yes, but it makes no sense to do so.
--
http://www.standards.com/; See Howard Kaikow's web site.
"BillyTheKid" <nf*@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:uj**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... I've heard from various sources that Microsoft recommends dropping
Hungarian notation for .NET development but am unable to explicitly find this
recommendation or their reasons for doing so. Does anyone know if it is
true... or merely urban myth?
The real problem I have with it is that over time as the code needs to
change you might end up with a var name like intNumber actually being a long
type.
Changing var names is a pain...
Working with ones that have not been changed but need to be is even worse.
"Charles Law" <bl**@thingummy.com> wrote in message
news:ub**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... MSFT has added capabilities so you can see the data type, etc., but real
programmers know that it is often necessary to print out code and look
at the code away from a terminal.
I'm surprised that you say that. I can't remember the last time I printed
out code for any reason, let alone to look at it away from the m/c.
Do people still do that?
Charles
"Howard Kaikow" <ka****@standards.com> wrote in message
news:Ox**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... Yes, but it makes no sense to do so.
--
http://www.standards.com/; See Howard Kaikow's web site.
"BillyTheKid" <nf*@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:uj**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... I've heard from various sources that Microsoft recommends dropping
Hungarian notation for .NET development but am unable to explicitly find this
recommendation or their reasons for doing so. Does anyone know if it
is true... or merely urban myth?
Howard Kaikow <ka****@standards.com> wrote: Yes, but it makes no sense to do so.
MSFT has added capabilities so you can see the data type, etc., but real
programmers know that it is often necessary to print out code and look at
the code away from a terminal.
I agree with Charles on this - how often do you actually do that?
--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com> http://www.pobox.com/~skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too
"Howard Kaikow" <ka****@standards.com> wrote in message
news:Ox**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... Yes, but it makes no sense to do so.
MSFT has added capabilities so you can see the data type, etc., but real
programmers know that it is often necessary to print out code and look at
the code away from a terminal.
The last time since I remember commercial programming I have printed code
out only occasionally to grasp some complex algo (and hungarian would not
have helped there), And I have only printed larger parts ONCE - to but them
into a binder and present them to a customer as "offical code turnover
event".
I have never really considered looking at code outside of the IDE somethign
"real programmers" do.
--
Regards
Thomas Tomiczek
THONA Software & Consulting Ltd.
(Microsoft MVP C#/.NET)
Often.
-- http://www.standards.com/; See Howard Kaikow's web site.
"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <sk***@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:MP************************@msnews.microsoft.c om... Howard Kaikow <ka****@standards.com> wrote: Yes, but it makes no sense to do so.
MSFT has added capabilities so you can see the data type, etc., but real
programmers know that it is often necessary to print out code and look
at the code away from a terminal.
I agree with Charles on this - how often do you actually do that?
--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too
Howard Kaikow <ka****@standards.com> wrote: Often.
Why, out of interest? It does sound (given the other responses here) as
if you're in the minority here - and conventions can always be tweaked
if you're in special circumstances (such as being in a position where
you often need to do something that other people only do very rarely).
--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com> http://www.pobox.com/~skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too
How are code reviews done then? Or, do "real programmers" not need them?
Bob Lehmann
"Thomas Tomicek [MVP]" <t.********@thona-consulting.com> wrote in message
news:OV**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... "Howard Kaikow" <ka****@standards.com> wrote in message
news:Ox**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... Yes, but it makes no sense to do so.
MSFT has added capabilities so you can see the data type, etc., but real
programmers know that it is often necessary to print out code and look
at the code away from a terminal.
The last time since I remember commercial programming I have printed code
out only occasionally to grasp some complex algo (and hungarian would not
have helped there), And I have only printed larger parts ONCE - to but
them into a binder and present them to a customer as "offical code turnover
event".
I have never really considered looking at code outside of the IDE
somethign "real programmers" do.
--
Regards
Thomas Tomiczek
THONA Software & Consulting Ltd.
(Microsoft MVP C#/.NET)
What's wrong with performing them via an IDE? Quite a bit more convenient,
particularly wrt to tracking down dependencies, than printed code...
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... How are code reviews done then? Or, do "real programmers" not need them?
Bob Lehmann
"Thomas Tomicek [MVP]" <t.********@thona-consulting.com> wrote in message
news:OV**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... "Howard Kaikow" <ka****@standards.com> wrote in message
news:Ox**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... Yes, but it makes no sense to do so.
MSFT has added capabilities so you can see the data type, etc., but
real programmers know that it is often necessary to print out code and
look at the code away from a terminal.
The last time since I remember commercial programming I have printed
code out only occasionally to grasp some complex algo (and hungarian would
not have helped there), And I have only printed larger parts ONCE - to but
them into a binder and present them to a customer as "offical code turnover
event".
I have never really considered looking at code outside of the IDE
somethign "real programmers" do.
--
Regards
Thomas Tomiczek
THONA Software & Consulting Ltd.
(Microsoft MVP C#/.NET)
Are code reviews really necessary?
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... How are code reviews done then? Or, do "real programmers" not need them?
Bob Lehmann
"Thomas Tomicek [MVP]" <t.********@thona-consulting.com> wrote in message
news:OV**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... "Howard Kaikow" <ka****@standards.com> wrote in message
news:Ox**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... Yes, but it makes no sense to do so.
MSFT has added capabilities so you can see the data type, etc., but
real programmers know that it is often necessary to print out code and
look at the code away from a terminal.
The last time since I remember commercial programming I have printed
code out only occasionally to grasp some complex algo (and hungarian would
not have helped there), And I have only printed larger parts ONCE - to but
them into a binder and present them to a customer as "offical code turnover
event".
I have never really considered looking at code outside of the IDE
somethign "real programmers" do.
--
Regards
Thomas Tomiczek
THONA Software & Consulting Ltd.
(Microsoft MVP C#/.NET)
Billy,
Unless you are running a "Code Critic", yes!
How else do you enforce adherence to standards & maintain a certain
consistency in your teams code?
Also, I view code reviews as an opportunity for both the reviewer & the
developer to learn about new techniques.
Hope this helps
Jay
"BillyM" <nf*@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:u4**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... Are code reviews really necessary?
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... How are code reviews done then? Or, do "real programmers" not need them?
Bob Lehmann
"Thomas Tomicek [MVP]" <t.********@thona-consulting.com> wrote in
message news:OV**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... "Howard Kaikow" <ka****@standards.com> wrote in message
news:Ox**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Yes, but it makes no sense to do so.
>
> MSFT has added capabilities so you can see the data type, etc., but
real > programmers know that it is often necessary to print out code and look at > the code away from a terminal.
The last time since I remember commercial programming I have printed
code out only occasionally to grasp some complex algo (and hungarian would not have helped there), And I have only printed larger parts ONCE - to but
them into a binder and present them to a customer as "offical code turnover
event".
I have never really considered looking at code outside of the IDE
somethign "real programmers" do.
--
Regards
Thomas Tomiczek
THONA Software & Consulting Ltd.
(Microsoft MVP C#/.NET)
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