VC++ Express 2005 is so broken...

[John Gabriel]

lThe compiler output report is seldom correct:
Problems here involve not being able to generate an accurate compile report.
There are so many problems and I am not on Microsoft's payroll. Neither do
I
plan to help them fix such a buggy product.
The IDE closes down unexpectedly:
For no reason at all, the IDE aborts (shuts down); prompts for permission to
send an error report to Microsoft.
Debug windows:
There are problems with variables not being displayed because the compiler
'thinks' they are out of scope when they are not.

All in all, this *crappy* product will probably go to market (even though it
should be scrapped) because of the faithful efforts of people like you who
spend countless hours being frustrated and making Bill get richer.

John Gabriel

[Jochen Kalmbach [MVP]]

Hi John!

Had you ever installed an beta product before Beta 2 ?

You should remove all previous betas!
The best is to install beta products on an fresh-installed machine!
This is why it is called "beta"!

--
Greetings
Jochen

My blog about Win32 and .NET
http://blog.kalmbachnet.de/

[John Gabriel]

Hi Jochen,
Yes. Did you read my response in one of my earlier posts? I think not.
Now it is my turn to tell you: Go back and read it carefully.

I said: I did not have to uninstall anything because I reformatted my hard
drive. Does this ring a bell?

This is not even worthy of being called a 'beta'. It is not even close to an
'omega' product. It is pathetic how Microsoft can launch such a product and
expect the public (whom it does not pay) to quality control its product and
then have the audacity to turn round and sell it right back to those
organizations whose developers helped test it. No Jochen, I do not call this
a 'beta' version. I call it an absolute abortion!!

John Gabriel

"Jochen Kalmbach [MVP]" wrote:

Hi John!

Had you ever installed an beta product before Beta 2 ?

You should remove all previous betas!
This is why it is called "beta"!

--
Greetings
Jochen

My blog about Win32 and .NET
http://blog.kalmbachnet.de/

[Jochen Kalmbach [MVP]]

Hi John!

I said: I did not have to uninstall anything because I reformatted my hard
drive. Does this ring a bell?
Oh, now I remember...
Because you used not the same thread, it is hard for me to have all the
previous postings in my head :->
No Jochen, I do not call this
a 'beta' version. I call it an absolute abortion!!

I do not have any major problems with it.

--
Greetings
Jochen

My blog about Win32 and .NET
http://blog.kalmbachnet.de/

[Nishant Sivakumar]

I installed the full beta 2 and it's been quite okay for me. Beta 1 was
definitely slow and crash-prone. But Beta 2 has been quite decent :-) Almost
as good as VC++ 7.1 :-)

Maybe they use a different code base for the Express editions.

--
Regards,
Nish [VC++ MVP]
http://www.voidnish.com
http://blog.voidnish.com
"John Gabriel" <Jo*********@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:9E**********************************@microsof t.com...

lThe compiler output report is seldom correct:
Problems here involve not being able to generate an accurate compile
report.
There are so many problems and I am not on Microsoft's payroll. Neither
do
I
plan to help them fix such a buggy product.
The IDE closes down unexpectedly:
For no reason at all, the IDE aborts (shuts down); prompts for permission
to
send an error report to Microsoft.
Debug windows:
There are problems with variables not being displayed because the
compiler
'thinks' they are out of scope when they are not.

All in all, this *crappy* product will probably go to market (even though
it
should be scrapped) because of the faithful efforts of people like you who
spend countless hours being frustrated and making Bill get richer.

John Gabriel

[Carl Daniel [VC++ MVP]]

Nishant Sivakumar wrote:

I installed the full beta 2 and it's been quite okay for me. Beta 1
was definitely slow and crash-prone. But Beta 2 has been quite decent
:-) Almost as good as VC++ 7.1 :-)

Maybe they use a different code base for the Express editions.

The Express Edition IDE is a completely new (Version 0.0) product, from what
I understand.

-cd

[Tarek Madkour [MSFT]]

"Carl Daniel [VC++ MVP]"
<cp*****************************@mvps.org.nospam > wrote in
news:O1**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl:

Maybe they use a different code base for the Express editions.

The Express Edition IDE is a completely new (Version 0.0)
product, from what I understand.

Actually it's the same code base :) Express Edition is just a
different set of setup options and configuration files that disable
some features, enable others, and modify some UI look and feel.
There's very little code that's written "just for Express" for C++.

Thanks,
--
Tarek Madkour, Visual C++ Team
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights.

[Carl Daniel [VC++ MVP]]

Tarek Madkour [MSFT] wrote:

"Carl Daniel [VC++ MVP]"
<cp*****************************@mvps.org.nospam > wrote in
news:O1**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl:

Maybe they use a different code base for the Express editions.

The Express Edition IDE is a completely new (Version 0.0)
product, from what I understand.

Actually it's the same code base :) Express Edition is just a
different set of setup options and configuration files that disable
some features, enable others, and modify some UI look and feel.
There's very little code that's written "just for Express" for C++.

Good to hear. I suppose I'm going to have to install the express edition
one of these days :)

-cd

[John Gabriel]

Good luck Carl! And may the force be with you. I would be interested to know
if you run into the same problems I did. You may look at my posts and see if
you can't replicate some of the bugs I found. If MS comes up with a new
update of the Express Edition, I would like to know. Only problem is even
with a high speed connection, it still takes me 20-30 minutes to download
everything.

John gabriel

"Carl Daniel [VC++ MVP]" wrote:

Tarek Madkour [MSFT] wrote:

"Carl Daniel [VC++ MVP]"
<cp*****************************@mvps.org.nospam > wrote in
news:O1**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl:

Maybe they use a different code base for the Express editions.

The Express Edition IDE is a completely new (Version 0.0)
product, from what I understand.

Actually it's the same code base :) Express Edition is just a
different set of setup options and configuration files that disable
some features, enable others, and modify some UI look and feel.
There's very little code that's written "just for Express" for C++.

Good to hear. I suppose I'm going to have to install the express edition
one of these days :)

-cd

[Carl Daniel [VC++ MVP]]

John Gabriel wrote:

Good luck Carl! And may the force be with you. I would be interested
to know if you run into the same problems I did. You may look at my
posts and see if you can't replicate some of the bugs I found. If MS
comes up with a new update of the Express Edition, I would like to
know. Only problem is even with a high speed connection, it still
takes me 20-30 minutes to download everything.

OK, downloaded. It seems to work fine for me. I'll go through your posts
and see if I can repro any of the things you reported, but so far I'm not
seeing anything. I installed on a fresh install of Server 2003 SP1. I
think I recall you saying you installed on XP, but I can't find that quote
at the moment. In any case, the OS you installed on _shouldn't_ matter, but
you never know.

-cd

[Jochen Kalmbach [MVP]]

Hi Carl!

OK, downloaded. It seems to work fine for me. I'll go through your posts
and see if I can repro any of the things you reported, but so far I'm not
seeing anything. I installed on a fresh install of Server 2003 SP1. I
think I recall you saying you installed on XP, but I can't find that quote
at the moment. In any case, the OS you installed on _shouldn't_ matter, but
you never know.

I did the same on XP without any problems...
I also installed the PSDK and followed the instruction at
http://forums.microsoft.com/msdn/Sho...px?PostID=2995
and I can now build win32 apps without any problems.

--
Greetings
Jochen

My blog about Win32 and .NET
http://blog.kalmbachnet.de/

[John Gabriel]

Carl,
Yes, I am using XP HOME edition with all the service pack updates. The
errors
are there. I guess most users are not going to be running XP Home so maybe
this is why Microsoft has not picked up these bugs? I would not be
surprised at
this because Microsoft is known for this sort of thing. For example, they ship
XP Home without ISS or a web server. They do not apologize for this nor do
they provide any workaround. I am sick of being given the run-around
by having to quality-test incompetent and dysfunctional products.

Jochen reports that he can build applications just fine. I believe he does
not read my posts carefully. Here's what I said once again:

-) The Build output window which reports the build status often reports a
failure. However, simply rebuilding again reports a successful build without
any modifications to the code. What this boils down to is that one can never
be certain if a build report is 'telling the truth or not'.
It often complains about 'locked resources' when in fact no resources are
locked.

-) Just clicking on the IDE (by accident) caused the IDE to abort and
resulted in the
loss of some of the program files. When I restarted the Express Edition to
try and rebuild my project, a message appeared to the effect that I should
reboot my system in order for these lost files to be recovered. In true
microsoft tradition I rebooted but unfortunately the files could not be
recovered. Strangely enough, it was somehow still able to build an executable.

I could go on and on regarding managed/unmanaged code and other problems but
looking at the posts I can see I am not the only one who is finding problems.
The microsoft team know of all these problems and are probably having a good
laugh reading this.

John Gabriel

"Carl Daniel [VC++ MVP]" wrote:

John Gabriel wrote:

Good luck Carl! And may the force be with you. I would be interested
to know if you run into the same problems I did. You may look at my
posts and see if you can't replicate some of the bugs I found. If MS
comes up with a new update of the Express Edition, I would like to
know. Only problem is even with a high speed connection, it still
takes me 20-30 minutes to download everything.

OK, downloaded. It seems to work fine for me. I'll go through your posts
and see if I can repro any of the things you reported, but so far I'm not
seeing anything. I installed on a fresh install of Server 2003 SP1. I
think I recall you saying you installed on XP, but I can't find that quote
at the moment. In any case, the OS you installed on _shouldn't_ matter, but
you never know.

-cd

[Michael Ross]

I'm not sure you (John Gabriel) really understand the concept and purpose of
a BETA release. Would you prefer it if Microsoft never released any ALPHA or
BETA trials? That way, all testing would done in-house, increasing costs and
delaying release dates. Would you prefer it if the REAL people had no way of
giving feed back until the full version was released? That way it would be
very possible for Micro$oft to get the whole thing completely wrong. A BETA
by its very definition is not complete, this entire software package cost you
nothing except a certain amount download time. It is not easy to get
something as monumental as a complete programming package right without
outside user input. So please, in future, give advice as feedback and not
comments bordering on abusive. By the way, just in-case you were wandering I
think I feel similar feelings towards Micro$oft and Bill Gates as you do, so
don't think I am defending those monopolising, money guzzling, economic
tyrants! I am simply stating that I think your comments are a little nasty
and quite unhelpful to Microsoft in improving the product as you are not very
specific with your problems. Anyhow, I have babbled on for long enough now,
so I'm away to get stoned, See y'all later!