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VS 2003 Very Slow

P: n/a
Hi,

I have a form containing a lot of various forms objects (about 120-150). It
takes about 10 minutes for the solution to load (only one project). If I
modify the corresponding .h file and return to the [Design] tab the IDE
become unresponsive to about 5-10 minutes again. For example, if I double
click on a label, the .h code window appears with the corresponding event
handling function for 'Click'. If I delete that function and then return to
the [Deisgn] tab, it takes, and I just tested this, 12 minutes before VS2003
IDE becomes reponsive again and actually shows the Design window. Its obvious
that when I deleted the event hanlding function, VS2003 needed to remove the
corresponding '.. new System::EventHandler ..' line located in the
InitializeComponent() routine, but why it is taking sooo long?

Am I doing something wrong?
Nov 17 '05 #1
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21 Replies


P: n/a
"=?Utf-8?B?U3RldmU=?=" <St***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
news:A0**********************************@microsof t.com:
I have a form containing a lot of various forms objects (about
120-150). It takes about 10 minutes for the solution to load (only one
project). If I modify the corresponding .h file and return to the
[Design] tab the IDE become unresponsive to about 5-10 minutes again.


Please check: http://support.microsoft.com/?id=832138 . It has a
solution for your problem.

Thanks,
--
Tarek Madkour, Visual C++ Team
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights.
Nov 17 '05 #2

P: n/a
Steve wrote:
Hi,

I have a form containing a lot of various forms objects (about 120-150). It
takes about 10 minutes for the solution to load (only one project). If I
modify the corresponding .h file and return to the [Design] tab the IDE
become unresponsive to about 5-10 minutes again. For example, if I double
click on a label, the .h code window appears with the corresponding event
handling function for 'Click'. If I delete that function and then return to
the [Deisgn] tab, it takes, and I just tested this, 12 minutes before VS2003
IDE becomes reponsive again and actually shows the Design window. Its obvious
that when I deleted the event hanlding function, VS2003 needed to remove the
corresponding '.. new System::EventHandler ..' line located in the
InitializeComponent() routine, but why it is taking sooo long?

Am I doing something wrong?


Hi Steve,

Call product support services. We ahve a QFE available that fixs this
issue in all the cases we have seen. You can only get that QFE by
calling product support. The incident is free.

Ronald Laeremans
Visual C++ team
Nov 17 '05 #3

P: n/a
> Please check: http://support.microsoft.com/?id=832138 . It has a
solution for your problem.

Thanks,
--
Tarek Madkour, Visual C++ Team
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights.


Tarek,

Thank you for the link. However, it states that I must call Microsoft
Product Support Services in order to obtain the fix, and I do not have the
version of Vcpkg.dll that is listed on the Hot Fix page.

It lists:
7.10.3337.0

I have:
7.10.3077.0

Without the correct or later version, it does not seem as if I can get the
hot fix without paying the $245 dollars for a support call. "In special
cases, charges that are ordinarily incurred for support calls may be canceled
if a Microsoft Support Professional determines that a specific update will
resolve your problem. The usual support costs will apply to additional
support questions and issues that do not qualify for the specific update in
question. The English version of this hotfix has the file attributes (or
later) that are listed in the following table."

It makes no sense for me to pay $250 dollars to fix Microsoft's mistake! How
else can I resolve this issue, or, how can I be guaranteed that I will not be
charged?

Thanks.
Nov 17 '05 #4

P: n/a
"=?Utf-8?B?U3RldmU=?=" <St***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
news:CD**********************************@microsof t.com:
It makes no sense for me to pay $250 dollars to fix Microsoft's
mistake! How else can I resolve this issue, or, how can I be
guaranteed that I will not be charged?


Microsoft Support will never charge you if you call with an issue that
is turns out to be a real bug. In this case, we are positive that this
is a real bug. We also have a fix for it. You can call support without
any worries of them charging you for this incident.

Thanks,
--
Tarek Madkour, Visual C++ Team
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights.
Nov 17 '05 #5

P: n/a
Thanks. On hold now....
Nov 17 '05 #6

P: n/a
Steve wrote:
Please check: http://support.microsoft.com/?id=832138 . It has a
solution for your problem.

Thanks,
--
Tarek Madkour, Visual C++ Team
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights.

Tarek,

Thank you for the link. However, it states that I must call Microsoft
Product Support Services in order to obtain the fix, and I do not have the
version of Vcpkg.dll that is listed on the Hot Fix page.

It lists:
7.10.3337.0

I have:
7.10.3077.0

Without the correct or later version, it does not seem as if I can get the
hot fix without paying the $245 dollars for a support call. "In special
cases, charges that are ordinarily incurred for support calls may be canceled
if a Microsoft Support Professional determines that a specific update will
resolve your problem. The usual support costs will apply to additional
support questions and issues that do not qualify for the specific update in
question. The English version of this hotfix has the file attributes (or
later) that are listed in the following table."

It makes no sense for me to pay $250 dollars to fix Microsoft's mistake! How
else can I resolve this issue, or, how can I be guaranteed that I will not be
charged?

Thanks.


Hi Steve,

You have my personal guarantee that you will not be charged or the
charge will be reversed (if the call is only about this issue). If you
have issues on that with the support engineer you are talking to you can
refer them to me (my alias is the obvious unmangling of my posting alias
here). But that has _never_ been neccesary yet in a large number of
customers who have called to get this and other QFEs. We have a really
great support team that goes out of their way to help our customers. And
I do know most of them personally.

Ronald Laeremans
Group Program Manager
Visual C++ team
Nov 17 '05 #7

P: n/a
Yes, there was no problem getting the hot fix. Sorry for being a little
paranoid, I'll be more trusting next time!

The lag is now down to about 45 seconds. Should this be considered "normal"
overhead for a form with a large number of objects on it? If so does VS2005
attempt to speed this up?

Thank you for your help.
Nov 17 '05 #8

P: n/a
"=?Utf-8?B?U3RldmU=?=" <St***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
news:B7**********************************@microsof t.com:
The lag is now down to about 45 seconds. Should this be considered
"normal" overhead for a form with a large number of objects on it? If
so does VS2005 attempt to speed this up?


We've improved it a little in VS2005. We're currently also evaluating
whether we need to do more work in that area before we ship.

Thanks,
--
Tarek Madkour, Visual C++ Team
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights.
Nov 17 '05 #9

P: n/a
maybe this is a silly question, but if the bugfix is available for free, why
isn't it available publicly?
wouldn't it be more sensible to let people download it without having to
call support?

Bruno.

"Ronald Laeremans [MSFT]" <ro*****@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:O5**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
Steve wrote:
Hi,

I have a form containing a lot of various forms objects (about 120-150).
It takes about 10 minutes for the solution to load (only one project). If
I modify the corresponding .h file and return to the [Design] tab the IDE
become unresponsive to about 5-10 minutes again. For example, if I double
click on a label, the .h code window appears with the corresponding event
handling function for 'Click'. If I delete that function and then return
to the [Deisgn] tab, it takes, and I just tested this, 12 minutes before
VS2003 IDE becomes reponsive again and actually shows the Design window.
Its obvious that when I deleted the event hanlding function, VS2003
needed to remove the corresponding '.. new System::EventHandler ..' line
located in the InitializeComponent() routine, but why it is taking sooo
long?

Am I doing something wrong?


Hi Steve,

Call product support services. We ahve a QFE available that fixs this
issue in all the cases we have seen. You can only get that QFE by calling
product support. The incident is free.

Ronald Laeremans
Visual C++ team

Nov 17 '05 #10

P: n/a
"Bruno van Dooren" <mi******@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:OH**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl:
maybe this is a silly question, but if the bugfix is available for
free, why isn't it available publicly?
wouldn't it be more sensible to let people download it without having
to call support?


Because the fix for this bug did not pass all the required automated
tests to make it a publicly available bug fix. Normally all bug fixes
that we make publicly available need to pass a certain level of quality
which this fix could not meet (for lots of technical reasons). As a
result, we recommend that people only download this fix if they are
experiencing the exact problem that is described, otherwise it will
cause them more harm than good.

I hope this helps explaining things a little :)

Thanks,
--
Tarek Madkour, Visual C++ Team
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights.
Nov 17 '05 #11

P: n/a
Thanks for the answer. it makes sense to do it like that.

this brings me to another question however: why doesn't microsoft release
any service packs anymore for VS? with VS6 there were regular updates, and i
am sure that you guys solves a lot of bugs since VS 2003 was released.
heaven knows that intellisense alone could use some fixing...
VS 2003 is out for 2 years and still no service pack.

Bruno.
"Tarek Madkour [MSFT]" <ta****@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:Xn*****************************@207.46.248.16 ...
"Bruno van Dooren" <mi******@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:OH**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl:
maybe this is a silly question, but if the bugfix is available for
free, why isn't it available publicly?
wouldn't it be more sensible to let people download it without having
to call support?


Because the fix for this bug did not pass all the required automated
tests to make it a publicly available bug fix. Normally all bug fixes
that we make publicly available need to pass a certain level of quality
which this fix could not meet (for lots of technical reasons). As a
result, we recommend that people only download this fix if they are
experiencing the exact problem that is described, otherwise it will
cause them more harm than good.

I hope this helps explaining things a little :)

Thanks,
--
Tarek Madkour, Visual C++ Team
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights.

Nov 17 '05 #12

P: n/a

"Bruno van Dooren" <mi******@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:es**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Thanks for the answer. it makes sense to do it like that.

this brings me to another question however: why doesn't microsoft
release any service packs anymore for VS? with VS6 there were regular
updates, and i am sure that you guys solves a lot of bugs since VS
2003 was released.
heaven knows that intellisense alone could use some fixing...
VS 2003 is out for 2 years and still no service pack.

Bruno.


They have obviously been too busy working on other products.

" Microsoft Delays Visual Studio 2005 Beta 2 "
http://www.pcworld.com/resource/arti...RSS,RSS,00.asp
Bo Persson
Nov 17 '05 #13

P: n/a
"Bruno van Dooren" <mi******@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:es**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl:
this brings me to another question however: why doesn't microsoft
release any service packs anymore for VS? with VS6 there were regular
updates, and i am sure that you guys solves a lot of bugs since VS
2003 was released. heaven knows that intellisense alone could use some
fixing... VS 2003 is out for 2 years and still no service pack.


VS2002 service pack is out already. We're also working on VS2003 service
pack right now.

I agree with you that two years feels like a long time to go without
service packs. But that's an issue that I neither control nor am aware
of all aspects of, so I'd rather not try to justify it, speculate or
comment about it :) Maybe someone else who knows more about it would :)

Thanks,
--
Tarek Madkour, Visual C++ Team
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights.
Nov 17 '05 #14

P: n/a

"Tarek Madkour [MSFT]" <ta****@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:Xn*****************************@207.46.248.16 ...
"Bruno van Dooren" <mi******@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:es**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl: VS2002 service pack is out already. We're also working on VS2003 service
pack right now.


Does MS usually provide information as to what is
addressed in the service pack?

Do we get it as an auto update or something?

Nov 17 '05 #15

P: n/a
"Duane Hebert" <sp**@flarn2.com> wrote in
news:uU**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl:
Does MS usually provide information as to what is
addressed in the service pack?
Yes. See this for an example:
http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;837234
Do we get it as an auto update or something?


Not for Visual Studio service packs :( In VS2005, the start page will
include a notification area for such important pieces of information.

Thanks,
--
Tarek Madkour, Visual C++ Team
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights.
Nov 17 '05 #16

P: n/a

"Tarek Madkour [MSFT]" <ta****@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:Xn*****************************@207.46.248.16 ...
Yes. See this for an example:
http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;837234
Do we get it as an auto update or something?


Not for Visual Studio service packs :( In VS2005, the start page will
include a notification area for such important pieces of information.


We've just been using MSVC for the last year or so, so
I didn't know how this worked. Coming from Borland land, it's nice
to have a list of bugs addressed. As for notification of the patch,
I imagine that it will be posted here when it's released.

Thanks.
Nov 17 '05 #17

P: n/a
"Duane Hebert" <sp**@flarn2.com> wrote in
news:Op**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl:
We've just been using MSVC for the last year or so, so
I didn't know how this worked. Coming from Borland land, it's
nice to have a list of bugs addressed. As for notification of
the patch, I imagine that it will be posted here when it's
released.


You'll find it very useful to develop the reflex of checking
http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc regularly.

All the cool articles, whitepapers, updates, etc. get advertised
there.

Thanks,
--
Tarek Madkour, Visual C++ Team
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights.
Nov 17 '05 #18

P: n/a
> You'll find it very useful to develop the reflex of checking
http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc regularly.

All the cool articles, whitepapers, updates, etc. get advertised
there.


Thanks.
Nov 17 '05 #19

P: n/a
Hi Ronald,

Thanks for your responses! I do have a concern of my own though (please
don't read the following as an attack, its more of a concern). The policy
reads:

""In special cases, charges that are ordinarily incurred for support calls
may be canceled
if a Microsoft Support Professional determines that a specific update will
resolve your problem."

My concerns are as follows. First, you have to call to find out if you
'qualify' for the special case, so you must BET $250 your problem can be
solved for free. Second, it specifically says you are only qualified if a
'SPECIFIC update' (meaning one that ALREADY exists) will solve your problem.
This implies to me if you find a NEW problem you still pay $250 for the
provilege of telling MS about their mistake. And third, does this mean you
will only help people who have CREDIT CARDS with $250 in their account?

It is just a cop out for MS (or any company) to respond something like
'well, we get so many calls we would have to charge more for the product if
we didn't charge for customer support'. Well, you can also reduce such costs
by making BUG-FREE SOFTWARE!!! But paying for customer support makes us pay
for the privilege of de-bugging your software. Finally, the policy says 'MAY
be canceled'. Why does a MS Support Specialist get to determine this, seeing
as how such a person is hardly a neutral party? How would you like it if the
customer got to determine if he MAY pay for customer service according to
his 'support specialists' (ie., himself?). Oh, that doesn't sound good to
you? Neither does a MS employee deciding if a customer is going to have to
pay MS. You need a neutral party here...

I think if MS is going to CHARGE for customer support, they should have to
PAY people who find new bugs (say, $5000?)! What, that doesn't sound
reasonable from MS's point of view? Neither does paying for customer support
from a CUSTOMER'S point of view. After all, if we have to pay when we
mistakenly call you up with a problem that happens to be not be general bug,
why shouldn't MS have to pay for mistakenly putting a bug in their software?
You guys are aware most people will go DAYS of trying to solve such a bug
themselves before finally coming to the conclusion it might be an MS bug,
right? Who compensates such a person for this time, as if it truly does
result in the discovery of a new bug? I'm sure you pay for internal QA, so
why do you charge for external QA? In such a case MS is responsible for the
person's down time (which can be VERY costly to such a person), and it does
result in MS having a better product if a bug is truly revealed. So $5000 is
almost cheap...

I have always felt charging ANYTHING for customer support is dangerous and
bad business. It actually rewards companies for their mistakes, and thereby
makes it (sub-consciously) 'better' to actually have bugs!

At the VERY LEAST MS should set up a page to report bugs without having to
use a phone! When a customer reports a potential bug in your software he
shouldn't have to pay for a phone call (I only use a cellular phone like
many others so the 'free' aspect to the 800 line is of no help) or wait on
the phone to talk to someone.

And when do the charges for calling paid custom support get billed? BEFORE
or AFTER the phone call? If its BILL first and ask questions later, then I
believe it would be stupid to report a bug to MS that one finds in their
software (since there might be a charge of $250 if there isn't already a fix
for it, and there might be a charge even if there IS a fix for it), which
harms MS and me and everybody else. And heaven help the good samaritan who
tries to report something that turns out to not be a bug...

My 2 cents...

[==Peteroid==]

PS - I think the fact this thread exists at all is evidence that this
'paranoia' in regards to calling MS Customer Support is an issue that needs
to be dealt with...

"Ronald Laeremans [MSFT]" <ro*****@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:Od**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Steve wrote:
Please check: http://support.microsoft.com/?id=832138 . It has a solution
for your problem.

Thanks,
--
Tarek Madkour, Visual C++ Team
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.

Tarek,

Thank you for the link. However, it states that I must call Microsoft
Product Support Services in order to obtain the fix, and I do not have
the version of Vcpkg.dll that is listed on the Hot Fix page.

It lists:
7.10.3337.0

I have:
7.10.3077.0

Without the correct or later version, it does not seem as if I can get
the hot fix without paying the $245 dollars for a support call. "In
special cases, charges that are ordinarily incurred for support calls may
be canceled if a Microsoft Support Professional determines that a
specific update will resolve your problem. The usual support costs will
apply to additional support questions and issues that do not qualify for
the specific update in question. The English version of this hotfix has
the file attributes (or later) that are listed in the following table."

It makes no sense for me to pay $250 dollars to fix Microsoft's mistake!
How else can I resolve this issue, or, how can I be guaranteed that I
will not be charged? Thanks.


Hi Steve,

You have my personal guarantee that you will not be charged or the charge
will be reversed (if the call is only about this issue). If you have
issues on that with the support engineer you are talking to you can refer
them to me (my alias is the obvious unmangling of my posting alias here).
But that has _never_ been neccesary yet in a large number of customers who
have called to get this and other QFEs. We have a really great support
team that goes out of their way to help our customers. And I do know most
of them personally.

Ronald Laeremans
Group Program Manager
Visual C++ team

Nov 17 '05 #20

P: n/a
Good points - I can only agree with you. The prospect of being charged
will deter many people from reporting what they think are bugs. On the
other hand, it deters many who would be wasting the time and resources
of PSS by having them sort out problems that could be done by reading
the available documentation.

In practice I suspect that MS will not charge for *any* real bugs, and
if it is a real bug they can be very responsive (for a large
organisation) in getting you a bug fix if it's a blocking issue that
you can't easily workaround.

I like the idea of a reward payment for reporting a bug - let's say it
has to be one that's not publicly documented by MS in the online
Knowledge Base - to make it a realistic goal. ;)

Dave
--
MVP VC++ FAQ: http://www.mvps.org/vcfaq
Nov 17 '05 #21

P: n/a
Peteroid wrote:
Hi Ronald,

Thanks for your responses! I do have a concern of my own though (please
don't read the following as an attack, its more of a concern). The policy
reads:

""In special cases, charges that are ordinarily incurred for support calls
may be canceled
if a Microsoft Support Professional determines that a specific update will
resolve your problem."

My concerns are as follows. First, you have to call to find out if you
'qualify' for the special case, so you must BET $250 your problem can be
solved for free. Second, it specifically says you are only qualified if a
'SPECIFIC update' (meaning one that ALREADY exists) will solve your problem.
This implies to me if you find a NEW problem you still pay $250 for the
provilege of telling MS about their mistake. And third, does this mean you
will only help people who have CREDIT CARDS with $250 in their account? No, will normally not be charged when reporting a bug. The "normally"
part is there if a bug tht is unrelated to an issue the call is about
gets discovered or if customers raise several issues of which just one
is a bug and the others are unrelated. It normally does mean you need to
give a credit card with $250 available or have incidents available
(which come with various ways of getting the product, including MSDN
Universal").

It is just a cop out for MS (or any company) to respond something like
'well, we get so many calls we would have to charge more for the product if
we didn't charge for customer support'. Well, you can also reduce such costs
by making BUG-FREE SOFTWARE!!! But paying for customer support makes us pay
for the privilege of de-bugging your software. Finally, the policy says 'MAY
be canceled'. Why does a MS Support Specialist get to determine this, seeing
as how such a person is hardly a neutral party? How would you like it if the
customer got to determine if he MAY pay for customer service according to
his 'support specialists' (ie., himself?). Oh, that doesn't sound good to
you? Neither does a MS employee deciding if a customer is going to have to
pay MS. You need a neutral party here... I don't want to sound defensive here, but please do look at what your
actual experience is rather than at what the policy states; that policy
is both there for legal reasons (and similar if not more customer
friendly than the one most of our competitors use) and to act as a
somewhat of a filter to make sure a small set of customers does not
simply call product support to avoid spending 20 minutes reading the
documentation or searching for available information. The support
engineers in any case I have been involved with go out of their way to
make sure the customer is satisfied.
I think if MS is going to CHARGE for customer support, they should have to
PAY people who find new bugs (say, $5000?)! What, that doesn't sound
reasonable from MS's point of view? Neither does paying for customer support
from a CUSTOMER'S point of view. After all, if we have to pay when we
mistakenly call you up with a problem that happens to be not be general bug,
why shouldn't MS have to pay for mistakenly putting a bug in their software?
You guys are aware most people will go DAYS of trying to solve such a bug
themselves before finally coming to the conclusion it might be an MS bug,
right? Who compensates such a person for this time, as if it truly does
result in the discovery of a new bug? I'm sure you pay for internal QA, so
why do you charge for external QA? In such a case MS is responsible for the
person's down time (which can be VERY costly to such a person), and it does
result in MS having a better product if a bug is truly revealed. So $5000 is
almost cheap...

I have always felt charging ANYTHING for customer support is dangerous and
bad business. It actually rewards companies for their mistakes, and thereby
makes it (sub-consciously) 'better' to actually have bugs! And that is why we charge just a fraction of the cost of actually
providing the support. Many of the calls that customers do pay for
result in 10 to as much as 50 (and in some cases even more) hours of
work by support engineers; many of these end up being due to are very
hard to repro bugs in customer code.
At the VERY LEAST MS should set up a page to report bugs without having to
use a phone! When a customer reports a potential bug in your software he
shouldn't have to pay for a phone call (I only use a cellular phone like
many others so the 'free' aspect to the 800 line is of no help) or wait on
the phone to talk to someone. We do, there is a web option for support (the same cost structure and
guideliens on when charges will be waived apply) and there is the MSDN
feedback center for reporting bugs (without engaging support and
completely free with no strings attached, but mostly used to fix bugs in
alphas and betas or in a future release, this mechanism does not give
you the ability to request a QFE fix).

And when do the charges for calling paid custom support get billed? BEFORE
or AFTER the phone call? If its BILL first and ask questions later, then I
believe it would be stupid to report a bug to MS that one finds in their
software (since there might be a charge of $250 if there isn't already a fix
for it, and there might be a charge even if there IS a fix for it), which
harms MS and me and everybody else. And heaven help the good samaritan who
tries to report something that turns out to not be a bug...

My 2 cents...

[==Peteroid==]

PS - I think the fact this thread exists at all is evidence that this
'paranoia' in regards to calling MS Customer Support is an issue that needs
to be dealt with...

I agree.
Nov 17 '05 #22

This discussion thread is closed

Replies have been disabled for this discussion.