Beginner Programmers

[Jay]

I am an instructor at a technical college. My task is to bring the
ciriculum up to .NET. I would like some suggestions on what class to teach
to beginner programmers as the first class. We are currently teaching C++
console mode (functional based). We then move into object oriented based
(still in console mode). We still want to stay in console mode, but would
it be advantageous to change the language to C#.

Thank You for any input in this area.

[William DePalo [MVP VC++]]

"Jay" <ja**********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%PpWb.24128$EW.4669@okepread02...

I am an instructor at a technical college. My task is to bring the
ciriculum up to .NET. I would like some suggestions on what class to teach to beginner programmers as the first class. We are currently teaching C++
console mode (functional based). We then move into object oriented based
(still in console mode). We still want to stay in console mode, but would
it be advantageous to change the language to C#.

My pals here may not talk to me again, but if your focus is .Net and only
..Net, I'd start them with C#.

Managed C++ shines in its ability to straddle the fence, to be a little bit
native and a little bit managed in the same application or even in the same
module. It's syntax now is a bit unwieldy (some would say downright ugly)
and it is likely to change "soon". It will get better but, for now, I think
C# is a better managed language.

Regards,
Will

[William DePalo [MVP VC++]]

"Geoff Hilyard" <an*******@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:DE**********************************@microsof t.com...

C#, i'm told, is also a pretty much dead program, with
MS already comming up with a replacement as we speak.
I haven't read about this, but then again, I haven't been
looking either (I use VB.net for anything that could possibly
use C#).

Do you have a cite for that?

Regards,
Will

[Jay]

In the sample code that I've seen, I've noticed that C# and VB.NET are
almost line for line. Do they compile to ML the same? And then do they
compile down to native the same?

If any of these answers are yes, then why C#. Are there some things that C#
can do that VB can not?

Thank You!

"William DePalo [MVP VC++]" <wi***********@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:uH**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

"Jay" <ja**********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%PpWb.24128$EW.4669@okepread02...

I am an instructor at a technical college. My task is to bring the
ciriculum up to .NET. I would like some suggestions on what class to teach

to beginner programmers as the first class. We are currently teaching C++ console mode (functional based). We then move into object oriented based (still in console mode). We still want to stay in console mode, but would it be advantageous to change the language to C#.

My pals here may not talk to me again, but if your focus is .Net and only
.Net, I'd start them with C#.

Managed C++ shines in its ability to straddle the fence, to be a little

bit native and a little bit managed in the same application or even in the same module. It's syntax now is a bit unwieldy (some would say downright ugly)
and it is likely to change "soon". It will get better but, for now, I think C# is a better managed language.

Regards,
Will

[Jay]

What do you mean by System::Windows::Form (without the forms designer)?
What type of application would you write without using the form designer?

"Geoff Hilyard" <an*******@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:DE**********************************@microsof t.com...

Comming from a farily newbie programmer..

I would actually recommend using Forms (C++.net has forms) first. I been part time programming for 3 years now, and I have still to write a consol
program. This shop also hasn't wrote a consol base program at all in its 5
years of existance.
As for what class to start with, I started with System::Windows::Form (w/o the forms designer). Everything your students do in windows will use this
as a GUI. With the forms designer, the students can easily experiment and
create something and see results right away.
C#, i'm told, is also a pretty much dead program, with MS already comming up with a replacement as we speak. I haven't read about this, but then
again, I haven't been looking either (I use VB.net for anything that could
possibly use C#).

Just my 2 cents

GE

[William DePalo [MVP VC++]]

"Jay" <ja**********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7eAWb.25465$EW.22454@okepread02...

In the sample code that I've seen, I've noticed that
C# and VB.NET are almost line for line. Do they
compile to ML the same?
They all use compile to MSIL. But not all of the languages don't expose the
full set of .Net features. I can't quote you chapter and verse but I think,
for example, that VB.Net may lack unsigned types that the other languages
have had for a while. There is a fair amount of prejudice on my part here,
too. While C++, Java, JScript and C# are all different languages I'm
comfortable with all of them because they all remind me at times of my old
fave C. VB on the other hand is another kettle of fish entirely.
And then do they compile down to native the same?
I'm not the right guy to ask, but as I understand it, it is the runtime that
JIT compiles the MSIL, so that's a yes.
If any of these answers are yes, then why C#.
Are there some things that C#
can do that VB can not?

Technical bigotry. :-) But it just appears to me that C# is _the_ .Net
language, for now.

Regards,
Will

[Geoff Hilyard]

The first IDE for .net didn't have a forms designer in C++. Only C# and VB.net. It really sucked, but I learned how alot of things worked. I wouldn't recommend doing it this way, however

I personally wouldn't right anything for the consol. If I want user interaction, it should be a form. If there is no user interaction, then I would make it a DLL

As for the replacement to C#, I'll have to look. It was mentioned a while ago (to me, anyway), and I can't remember it being brought up again. We have several people around here that really lots of magazines and the like, and I read none. If I post something, I've found something. If not, somebody was wrong (and I apologize for it)

GE