Signed-signed xml-doc and xsd

[Jon G]

Hi,
I´m a bit of a newbie when it comes to xml but here goes:

I am using the SignedXml-class to construct a signed xmldoc which in turn
contains 1 or more signed xml-doc which creates the following structure
(edited of course):

<Signature xmlns:xd="Whatever">
<Object Id="A uri">
<Signature>
<Object Id="Another uri">My data</Object>
</Signature>
</Object>
</Signature>

My problem occurrs when try to use xsd.exe to create a schema for this. I
get the following error message:
- The table (Signature) cannot be the child table of itself in nested
relations

However if I remove the outer Object-tags (generated by SignedXml.AddObject)
it creates a schema without a problem.

1. Does anybody have a simple explanation for this?
2. Is there a way to remove the object tags and move the Id-attribute to the
next line (using XmlDocument,SignedXml or any other class)
3. I´m guessing that xsd.exe performs some sort of check if the xml is
valid. Is this xml considered to be valid?

Thanks in advance
Jon

[Christoph Schittko [MVP]]

Jon,

1. Does anybody have a simple explanation for this?
XSD has problems with Xml formats where an element can be nested within
itself. In your case you have an <Object> element inside another <Object>
element.
2. Is there a way to remove the object tags and move the Id-attribute to
the
next line (using XmlDocument,SignedXml or any other class)
I am note quite sure what you are trying to accomplish. Can you explain?
3. I´m guessing that xsd.exe performs some sort of check if the xml is
valid. Is this xml considered to be valid?

Yes it is valid. It's only xsd.exe that doesn't like what you are doing.

Is the schema really as simple as you posted or is it rather complex and
creating it by hand is not really an option?

Also, have you tried the schema inference tool [0]?

HTH,
Christoph Schittko
[MVP XML .NET]

[0] http://apps.gotdotnet.com/xmltools/xsdinference/

[Christoph Schittko [MVP]]

Jon,

1. Does anybody have a simple explanation for this?
XSD has problems with Xml formats where an element can be nested within
itself. In your case you have an <Object> element inside another <Object>
element.
2. Is there a way to remove the object tags and move the Id-attribute to
the
next line (using XmlDocument,SignedXml or any other class)
I am note quite sure what you are trying to accomplish. Can you explain?
3. I´m guessing that xsd.exe performs some sort of check if the xml is
valid. Is this xml considered to be valid?

Yes it is valid. It's only xsd.exe that doesn't like what you are doing.

Is the schema really as simple as you posted or is it rather complex and
creating it by hand is not really an option?

Also, have you tried the schema inference tool [0]?

HTH,
Christoph Schittko
[MVP XML .NET]

[0] http://apps.gotdotnet.com/xmltools/xsdinference/

[Jon G]

Thanks for your answer Christoph.

2. I found a page discussing SignedXml
(http://www.mcse.ms/archive105-2003-12-171469.html) where I found the
following info:

"Note, if the application wishes to exclude the <Object> tags from the
digest
calculation the Reference must identify the actual data object (easy for XML
documents) or a transform must be used to remove the Object tags (likely
where the data object is non-XML)"

Since the object-tags were the problem I just wanted to remove them from the
signature using the FCL and not editing the structure myself. But since I
now know that my xml is valid, this is not an issue anymore.

The schema is a bit more complex than the one that I posted (I simply
excluded everything that didn´t xsd.exe accepted), but I going to make an
attempt at creating it myself.

Thanks
-Jon
"Christoph Schittko [MVP]" <ch********************@austin.rr.com> skrev i
meddelandet news:um**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...

Jon,

1. Does anybody have a simple explanation for this?

XSD has problems with Xml formats where an element can be nested within
itself. In your case you have an <Object> element inside another <Object>
element.

2. Is there a way to remove the object tags and move the Id-attribute to
the
next line (using XmlDocument,SignedXml or any other class)

I am note quite sure what you are trying to accomplish. Can you explain?

3. I´m guessing that xsd.exe performs some sort of check if the xml is
valid. Is this xml considered to be valid?

Yes it is valid. It's only xsd.exe that doesn't like what you are doing.

Is the schema really as simple as you posted or is it rather complex and
creating it by hand is not really an option?

Also, have you tried the schema inference tool [0]?

HTH,
Christoph Schittko
[MVP XML .NET]

[0] http://apps.gotdotnet.com/xmltools/xsdinference/

[Jon G]

Thanks for your answer Christoph.

2. I found a page discussing SignedXml
(http://www.mcse.ms/archive105-2003-12-171469.html) where I found the
following info:

"Note, if the application wishes to exclude the <Object> tags from the
digest
calculation the Reference must identify the actual data object (easy for XML
documents) or a transform must be used to remove the Object tags (likely
where the data object is non-XML)"

Since the object-tags were the problem I just wanted to remove them from the
signature using the FCL and not editing the structure myself. But since I
now know that my xml is valid, this is not an issue anymore.

The schema is a bit more complex than the one that I posted (I simply
excluded everything that didn´t xsd.exe accepted), but I going to make an
attempt at creating it myself.

Thanks
-Jon
"Christoph Schittko [MVP]" <ch********************@austin.rr.com> skrev i
meddelandet news:um**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...

Jon,

1. Does anybody have a simple explanation for this?

XSD has problems with Xml formats where an element can be nested within
itself. In your case you have an <Object> element inside another <Object>
element.

2. Is there a way to remove the object tags and move the Id-attribute to
the
next line (using XmlDocument,SignedXml or any other class)

I am note quite sure what you are trying to accomplish. Can you explain?

3. I´m guessing that xsd.exe performs some sort of check if the xml is
valid. Is this xml considered to be valid?

Yes it is valid. It's only xsd.exe that doesn't like what you are doing.

Is the schema really as simple as you posted or is it rather complex and
creating it by hand is not really an option?

Also, have you tried the schema inference tool [0]?

HTH,
Christoph Schittko
[MVP XML .NET]

[0] http://apps.gotdotnet.com/xmltools/xsdinference/

[Christoph Schittko [MVP]]

Jon,

I'm still not quite sure what you needed xsd.exe for, but it sounds like you
got your problem solved.

I hope I could help
--
Christoph Schittko [MVP]
Software Architect, .NET Mentor
"Jon G" <no****@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...

Thanks for your answer Christoph.

2. I found a page discussing SignedXml
(http://www.mcse.ms/archive105-2003-12-171469.html) where I found the
following info:

"Note, if the application wishes to exclude the <Object> tags from the
digest
calculation the Reference must identify the actual data object (easy for
XML
documents) or a transform must be used to remove the Object tags (likely
where the data object is non-XML)"

Since the object-tags were the problem I just wanted to remove them from
the
signature using the FCL and not editing the structure myself. But since I
now know that my xml is valid, this is not an issue anymore.

The schema is a bit more complex than the one that I posted (I simply
excluded everything that didn´t xsd.exe accepted), but I going to make an
attempt at creating it myself.

Thanks
-Jon
"Christoph Schittko [MVP]" <ch********************@austin.rr.com> skrev i
meddelandet news:um**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...

Jon,

>
> 1. Does anybody have a simple explanation for this?

XSD has problems with Xml formats where an element can be nested within
itself. In your case you have an <Object> element inside another <Object>
element.

> 2. Is there a way to remove the object tags and move the Id-attribute
> to
> the
> next line (using XmlDocument,SignedXml or any other class)

I am note quite sure what you are trying to accomplish. Can you explain?

> 3. I´m guessing that xsd.exe performs some sort of check if the xml is
> valid. Is this xml considered to be valid?

Yes it is valid. It's only xsd.exe that doesn't like what you are doing.

Is the schema really as simple as you posted or is it rather complex and
creating it by hand is not really an option?

Also, have you tried the schema inference tool [0]?

HTH,
Christoph Schittko
[MVP XML .NET]

[0] http://apps.gotdotnet.com/xmltools/xsdinference/

[Christoph Schittko [MVP]]

Jon,

I'm still not quite sure what you needed xsd.exe for, but it sounds like you
got your problem solved.

I hope I could help
--
Christoph Schittko [MVP]
Software Architect, .NET Mentor
"Jon G" <no****@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...

Thanks for your answer Christoph.

2. I found a page discussing SignedXml
(http://www.mcse.ms/archive105-2003-12-171469.html) where I found the
following info:

"Note, if the application wishes to exclude the <Object> tags from the
digest
calculation the Reference must identify the actual data object (easy for
XML
documents) or a transform must be used to remove the Object tags (likely
where the data object is non-XML)"

Since the object-tags were the problem I just wanted to remove them from
the
signature using the FCL and not editing the structure myself. But since I
now know that my xml is valid, this is not an issue anymore.

The schema is a bit more complex than the one that I posted (I simply
excluded everything that didn´t xsd.exe accepted), but I going to make an
attempt at creating it myself.

Thanks
-Jon
"Christoph Schittko [MVP]" <ch********************@austin.rr.com> skrev i
meddelandet news:um**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...

Jon,

>
> 1. Does anybody have a simple explanation for this?

XSD has problems with Xml formats where an element can be nested within
itself. In your case you have an <Object> element inside another <Object>
element.

> 2. Is there a way to remove the object tags and move the Id-attribute
> to
> the
> next line (using XmlDocument,SignedXml or any other class)

I am note quite sure what you are trying to accomplish. Can you explain?

> 3. I´m guessing that xsd.exe performs some sort of check if the xml is
> valid. Is this xml considered to be valid?

Yes it is valid. It's only xsd.exe that doesn't like what you are doing.

Is the schema really as simple as you posted or is it rather complex and
creating it by hand is not really an option?

Also, have you tried the schema inference tool [0]?

HTH,
Christoph Schittko
[MVP XML .NET]

[0] http://apps.gotdotnet.com/xmltools/xsdinference/