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What Language to Learn ?

P: n/a
Hello ,

I want your opinion about this .
In order to say it clearly , I think I have to describe it in long sentences .

I could consider myself as Intermediate/Advance Access Developer ;
Intermediate/Advanced Database designer .

Because of the requirements , I must create Web Application . Access Pages
is not suitable for that so I think about learning VB Net / ASP Net . I am
learning it for just about 2 months . with just little background on that
thing , could I say that :

A. ASP net is for web server application .
B. ASP net and VB script is not good enough for Client scripting on html .
I really need both capabilities of the language .

I ended up wasting 3 days for investigating other options . It crossed my
mind to learn Python / Ironphyton . I found in one article that Dot Net is
not "Dynamic Progamming" which meant that variables must be declared before
they are used .

But Learning is serious Investment. Before spending two or more years
learning new languages , I must be sure which are more suitable for :

A. Web programming with server side and client side capabilities .
B. Web progamming for database application .

Please , I need your expert opinion on this .



--
Hermawih
Oct 30 '05 #1
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8 Replies


P: n/a

"Hermawih" <he******@newsgroup.nospam> wrote in message
news:75**********************************@microsof t.com...
Hello ,

I want your opinion about this .
In order to say it clearly , I think I have to describe it in long
sentences .

I could consider myself as Intermediate/Advance Access Developer ;
Intermediate/Advanced Database designer .

Because of the requirements , I must create Web Application . Access Pages
is not suitable for that so I think about learning VB Net / ASP Net . I
am
learning it for just about 2 months . with just little background on that
thing , could I say that :

A. ASP net is for web server application .
B. ASP net and VB script is not good enough for Client scripting on html .
I really need both capabilities of the language .

I ended up wasting 3 days for investigating other options . It crossed my
mind to learn Python / Ironphyton . I found in one article that Dot Net
is
not "Dynamic Progamming" which meant that variables must be declared
before
they are used .

But Learning is serious Investment. Before spending two or more years
learning new languages , I must be sure which are more suitable for :

A. Web programming with server side and client side capabilities .
B. Web progamming for database application .

Please , I need your expert opinion on this .


I'm not much of a web developer, but I'd say VB.NET, Java, Javascript, and
PHP should be the languages to target. PHP is the simpliest in my
experiance, and will do the job for simple applications.

The platforms you want to target is important. VB.NET isn't all that
worthwhile if you are targeting *nix servers, but I hear ASP.NET is a little
easier to deal with than Javas system.

You aren't going to get a single language for coding both serverside and
clientside systems. Browsers only support a small number of langauges,
javascript mostly. Serverside languages are generally broader, either
designed for easier use (templating languages like PHP) or more sure and
flexible programming(statically typed, compiler checkd languages like VB.NET
and Java).
Oct 30 '05 #2

P: n/a
Thanks Daniel .

For me with background of VBA , ASP.Net with VB.Net language is easier to
learn than JAVA . For web server Application , I am convinced that ASP.Net
with VB.Net is the correct choice - at least for me .

The thought of learning Javascript for client scripting scared me . One
Language is hard enough to learn .

--
Hermawih
"Daniel O'Connell [C# MVP]" wrote:

"Hermawih" <he******@newsgroup.nospam> wrote in message
news:75**********************************@microsof t.com...
Hello ,

I want your opinion about this .
In order to say it clearly , I think I have to describe it in long
sentences .

I could consider myself as Intermediate/Advance Access Developer ;
Intermediate/Advanced Database designer .

Because of the requirements , I must create Web Application . Access Pages
is not suitable for that so I think about learning VB Net / ASP Net . I
am
learning it for just about 2 months . with just little background on that
thing , could I say that :

A. ASP net is for web server application .
B. ASP net and VB script is not good enough for Client scripting on html .
I really need both capabilities of the language .

I ended up wasting 3 days for investigating other options . It crossed my
mind to learn Python / Ironphyton . I found in one article that Dot Net
is
not "Dynamic Progamming" which meant that variables must be declared
before
they are used .

But Learning is serious Investment. Before spending two or more years
learning new languages , I must be sure which are more suitable for :

A. Web programming with server side and client side capabilities .
B. Web progamming for database application .

Please , I need your expert opinion on this .


I'm not much of a web developer, but I'd say VB.NET, Java, Javascript, and
PHP should be the languages to target. PHP is the simpliest in my
experiance, and will do the job for simple applications.

The platforms you want to target is important. VB.NET isn't all that
worthwhile if you are targeting *nix servers, but I hear ASP.NET is a little
easier to deal with than Javas system.

You aren't going to get a single language for coding both serverside and
clientside systems. Browsers only support a small number of langauges,
javascript mostly. Serverside languages are generally broader, either
designed for easier use (templating languages like PHP) or more sure and
flexible programming(statically typed, compiler checkd languages like VB.NET
and Java).

Oct 30 '05 #3

P: n/a
All competent web developers must master JavaScript for client-side
development.
Javascript derives from the legacy syntax and grammar of C.
Furthermore, the current trend in web development is significantly dependent
on the use of JavaScript to enable a rich user interface the equivalent or
near equivalent to that of Windows applications. The manifestation of this
trend is called A(synchronous) JA(vascript) X(ML) with Microsoft's libraries
called Atlas all of which used to be simply referred to as remote
scripting.; issuing calls to the server which returns data to the user
interface resulting in possible changes to the user interface without a
noticeable 'post back' page flash. Just like a Windows application in this
sense.

I have postulated that this current trend will not dissapate and will in
fact impose increasing demands on the VB.NET developers who will be under
pressure to develop a high quality user interface that their peers who have
mastered legacy C syntax and grammar can and will produce in less time with
a higher quality result. On that basis I contend VB as a syntax and a
grammar will be 'killed off gently' so to speak for all but the most
competent of VB developers who can cope with mastering two sets of syntax
and grammar while producing masterful results.

Throw CSS and standardized web semantics into the discussion and we now have
what has been aptly called Web 2.0. Thus, my opinion is the legacy C
languages are overtaking VB syntax whic I believe will erode the legacy of
VB syntax and grammar if not kill it completely in the years to come. Time
will tell.

Thus, while VB.NET promises many benefits and can be said to produce the
same results as any other CTS compliant language if you want to really
master ASP.NET web development it seems to make more sense to learn C# which
I contend offers more efficiency in the context I have illiterated. Yes
VB.NET offers RAD features but to what end when you can't hack the client?
That's why I really consider those who say "both C# and VB.NET are
equivalently the same and one should learn what one is most comfortable
with" equates to a shallow consideration that has not considered the big
picture.

The big picture also includes the end of the era when somebody 'designed'
the page layout and threw it over the wall to a developer who wrote the
code. Nowadays, web developers are becoming ÜberGeeks (alt-0220) who have
developed a mastery of the entire process.

In this regard of the "which language" question I have been espousing what I
call a 341 philosophy.

When you learn [C# | JavaScript] you learn "three languages for the price of
one" You learn JavaScript, C# and Java all of which share the same syntax
and grammar with major differences only in the .NET and J2EE frameworks.
This strategy can only help make a person a better developer with extensive
skills that allow the developer to understand if not migrate to other
platforms where Java is the dominant language. The growing use of XML Web
Services in the enterprise demands .NET developers understand how to
collaborate with Java developers. Share code? No problem I can read and
understand your Java and we can talk dude :-)

Contemporary web developers also need to master SQL Server as JET is fading
away into the past. The current and forward looking strategy is the
recommended use of SQL Server Express 2005 on the desktop which scales up to
SQL Server 2005 with little to no relearning. I don't know much about the
forms interface Access provides in the context of the newer SQL strategies.

The only thing I can say in favor of VB.NET is it still appears in the
majority of employment listings. I attribute this to 'monkey see monkey do'
and the ignorance of corporate management which assumes the value of the
past can be replicated into the future. Thus, if you aspire to remain a
cubicle monkey you may decide it best to stick with VB syntax and grammar
anyway That would mean you will still face the rigorous demands of mastering
client-side web development at your expense when surrounded by the monkeys
in the workplace who do not understand that things change, things have
changed, and the future is one which is best considered using a language
derived from C for all of the reasons I have cited.

So either way you look at it you were right in assuming a year or two of
transition. I am moving into my second year coming from an ASP background
with the steepest part of the curve rooted in learning OOP as it is applied
to the .NET Framework. Its no picnic but I am loving every minute of it.
<%= Clinton Gallagher
METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://metromilwaukee.com/
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/


"Hermawih" <he******@newsgroup.nospam> wrote in message
news:53**********************************@microsof t.com...
Thanks Daniel .

For me with background of VBA , ASP.Net with VB.Net language is easier to
learn than JAVA . For web server Application , I am convinced that
ASP.Net
with VB.Net is the correct choice - at least for me .

The thought of learning Javascript for client scripting scared me . One
Language is hard enough to learn .

--
Hermawih
"Daniel O'Connell [C# MVP]" wrote:

"Hermawih" <he******@newsgroup.nospam> wrote in message
news:75**********************************@microsof t.com...
> Hello ,
>
> I want your opinion about this .
> In order to say it clearly , I think I have to describe it in long
> sentences .
>
> I could consider myself as Intermediate/Advance Access Developer ;
> Intermediate/Advanced Database designer .
>
> Because of the requirements , I must create Web Application . Access
> Pages
> is not suitable for that so I think about learning VB Net / ASP Net .
> I
> am
> learning it for just about 2 months . with just little background on
> that
> thing , could I say that :
>
> A. ASP net is for web server application .
> B. ASP net and VB script is not good enough for Client scripting on
> html .
> I really need both capabilities of the language .
>
> I ended up wasting 3 days for investigating other options . It crossed
> my
> mind to learn Python / Ironphyton . I found in one article that Dot
> Net
> is
> not "Dynamic Progamming" which meant that variables must be declared
> before
> they are used .
>
> But Learning is serious Investment. Before spending two or more years
> learning new languages , I must be sure which are more suitable for :
>
> A. Web programming with server side and client side capabilities .
> B. Web progamming for database application .
>
> Please , I need your expert opinion on this .


I'm not much of a web developer, but I'd say VB.NET, Java, Javascript,
and
PHP should be the languages to target. PHP is the simpliest in my
experiance, and will do the job for simple applications.

The platforms you want to target is important. VB.NET isn't all that
worthwhile if you are targeting *nix servers, but I hear ASP.NET is a
little
easier to deal with than Javas system.

You aren't going to get a single language for coding both serverside and
clientside systems. Browsers only support a small number of langauges,
javascript mostly. Serverside languages are generally broader, either
designed for easier use (templating languages like PHP) or more sure and
flexible programming(statically typed, compiler checkd languages like
VB.NET
and Java).

Oct 31 '05 #4

P: n/a
Hi Hermawih,
If you want to develop client-side application, I think it's necessary for
you to master script technology. Since you are familiar with VB syntax, I
recommend you to study VB script. I think it's easier for you and hope you
will make process. : )

If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to let me know. I
am standing by to help you. Thanks!

Best Regards,

Terry Fei[MSFT]
Microsoft Community Support
Get Secure! www.microsoft.com/security
(This posting is provided "AS IS", with no warranties, and confers no
rights.)
Oct 31 '05 #5

P: n/a
> Because of the requirements , I must create Web Application . Access Pages
is not suitable for that so I think about learning VB Net / ASP Net . I
am
learning it for just about 2 months . with just little background on that
thing , could I say that :

A. ASP net is for web server application .
ASP.Net is not a language. It is a part of the platform. You can use C#,
VB.Net, J#, P#, or any of a dozen other .Net compliant languages with
ASP.Net.
B. ASP net and VB script is not good enough for Client scripting on html .
I really need both capabilities of the language .
Both capabilities of what language?

You are talking about two different platforms: the server and the client
(browser). The browsers don't recognize a wide array of langauges. You
will have to learn JavaScript to do client side coding well. That really
isn't optional.

I ended up wasting 3 days for investigating other options . It crossed my
mind to learn Python / Ironphyton .
Neither run on the browser. You can use Python instead of VB.Net, but don't
expect a lot of support for Intranet apps that way. If the app runs inside
the corporate Intranet, then IIS outnumbers Unix environments by very
substantial numbers.
I found in one article that Dot Net is
not "Dynamic Progamming" which meant that variables must be declared
before
they are used .
This is true on a language by language basis. This restriction is placed by
the compilers, not by the .Net platform per se. For example, in P#, you do
not have to declare variables.

But Learning is serious Investment. Before spending two or more years
learning new languages , I must be sure which are more suitable for :

A. Web programming with server side and client side capabilities .
Two languages: C# on server side and Javascript on client side
B. Web progamming for database application .


Literally dozens of .Net languages. My personal preferences fall to C# and
VB.Net (about equally).

Hope this helps.
--
--- Nick Malik [Microsoft]
MCSD, CFPS, Certified Scrummaster
http://blogs.msdn.com/nickmalik

Disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this forum are my own, and not
representative of my employer.
I do not answer questions on behalf of my employer. I'm just a
programmer helping programmers.
--
Oct 31 '05 #6

P: n/a
Hermawith

With a web communicatieve application (not only a shopwindow). What ASPNET
and ASP in fact are, you have two things to process.

The way the question and the answers are showed on the client side.
The processing of the question to give an answer on the server side.

This is called "client side" programming and "server side" programming.

On the client side you can use scripting and applets, plugins whatever you
name them.

There are two scripting languages that are in use and will work:
Javascript in a lot of dialects however most work in the latest versions
of the browsers.
VBscript hardly used anymore in modern applications.

The applets that are in use are most made in Java or as ActiveX.

For the first you need in the client side a piece of Sun software, that you
should download extra if you are using the latest versions of IE.

With ActiveX is done so much wrong, that only very known ActiveX components
are still accepted on client side.

On serverside you have a lot of tastes.

If it is Microsoft than it can be Classic ASP which has on the serverside
the same vbscript as earlier mentioned and therefore sometimes that as well
on the client side.

If it is ASPNET the serverside can be accessed by scripting programs or by
build DLL's.
For both, can be used a managed program language. Mostly will that be VBNet
or C#.

Because of the fact that VBNet looks a lot as the code used in classic ASP
can that be handy when going step by step. If it is direct there are no
advantages what language you choose.

In my opinion is in ASPNet still VBNet mostly used when I see the samples on
Internet, however that can be a personal idee.

Beside that are there of course as well not "Microsoft" Server Side
solution. They are already mentioned in this message thread by others who
know for sure more than me from those.

I hope this helps,

Cor

Oct 31 '05 #7

P: n/a

Thank you .
I copied all the answers to my notepad and need to think about that .
--
Hermawih
"Hermawih" wrote:
Hello ,

I want your opinion about this .
In order to say it clearly , I think I have to describe it in long sentences .

I could consider myself as Intermediate/Advance Access Developer ;
Intermediate/Advanced Database designer .

Because of the requirements , I must create Web Application . Access Pages
is not suitable for that so I think about learning VB Net / ASP Net . I am
learning it for just about 2 months . with just little background on that
thing , could I say that :

A. ASP net is for web server application .
B. ASP net and VB script is not good enough for Client scripting on html .
I really need both capabilities of the language .

I ended up wasting 3 days for investigating other options . It crossed my
mind to learn Python / Ironphyton . I found in one article that Dot Net is
not "Dynamic Progamming" which meant that variables must be declared before
they are used .

But Learning is serious Investment. Before spending two or more years
learning new languages , I must be sure which are more suitable for :

A. Web programming with server side and client side capabilities .
B. Web progamming for database application .

Please , I need your expert opinion on this .



--
Hermawih

Oct 31 '05 #8

P: n/a
That's terrible advice Terry. The only place VBScript is useful is an
Intranet where IE is the only browser being used because no other browsers
will parse VBScript. Furthermore, VBScript is crippled in comparsion to
JavaScript and Microsoft's variant they call JScript.
<%= Clinton Gallagher
METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://metromilwaukee.com/
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
""Terry Fei[MSFT]"" <v-******@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:fh****************@TK2MSFTNGXA01.phx.gbl...
Hi Hermawih,
If you want to develop client-side application, I think it's necessary for
you to master script technology. Since you are familiar with VB syntax, I
recommend you to study VB script. I think it's easier for you and hope you
will make process. : )

If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to let me know. I
am standing by to help you. Thanks!

Best Regards,

Terry Fei[MSFT]
Microsoft Community Support
Get Secure! www.microsoft.com/security
(This posting is provided "AS IS", with no warranties, and confers no
rights.)

Oct 31 '05 #9

This discussion thread is closed

Replies have been disabled for this discussion.