A suitable quote

[Jimbo]

Hi people,
I've been XMLing for a few years, but am now writing a research
paper on semantic web stuff. Back in 1999/2000 when the hype for XML was
getting going I am sure I heard/read several times how B2B would be easy
with XML once businesses worked together to define a DTD.

Looking in my bookcase some of my old books (like Wrox Professional
Java Server Programming) have disappeared. So, because I'm lazy and want
to save a trip to a library does anyone know a book with a great quote
about how XML will change the world with a bit of co-ordination?

Thanks in advance
Jimbo.

[dingbat]

> now writing a research paper on semantic web stuff.

does anyone know a book with a great quote
about how XML will change the world with a bit of co-ordination?

What's the connection between the semantic web and XML ?

[Jimbo]

di*****@codesmiths.com wrote:

now writing a research paper on semantic web stuff.

does anyone know a book with a great quote
about how XML will change the world with a bit of co-ordination?

What's the connection between the semantic web and XML ?

There is a lot of hype about semantic web at the mo and how it's going
to change the world by providing interoperability. The quote I've got
about the semantic web is along the lines of "all that is required is
for businesses to collaborate to generate a interoperable vocabulary".
I'm sure similar quotes were being said about XML is going change the
world, and that is the type of quote that I'm trying to find.

Cheers
Jimbo

[Peter Flynn]

Jimbo wrote:

Hi people,
I've been XMLing for a few years, but am now writing a research
paper on semantic web stuff. Back in 1999/2000 when the hype for XML was
getting going I am sure I heard/read several times how B2B would be easy
with XML once businesses worked together to define a DTD.

Looking in my bookcase some of my old books (like Wrox Professional
Java Server Programming) have disappeared. So, because I'm lazy and want
to save a trip to a library does anyone know a book with a great quote
about how XML will change the world with a bit of co-ordination?

When I was in Philly in the early 80s I heard it was Beta Starchild
who said "the paperless office will arrive about the same time as the
paperless toilet."

B2B ran into the problem that industries (let alone businesses) can't
agree on what information should go into the definitions. The outlines
are there in ebXML but concrete applications are not easy to find.

Vertical applications (industry-specific DTDs and Schemas) are quite
common, but of limited use -- apart from mandated applications like
safety procedures, business don't in general want to share their info
with their competitors. Cross-industry applications -- the *really*
useful ones like standard purchase orders and invoices -- are just
precisely the ones people *can't* agree about, so they're barely off
the drawing-board, and about as common as rocking-horse manure.

The only decent quote I have heard about XML standardisation is
unfortunately indecent and not for the delicate ears of Usenet readers :-)

///Peter
--
sudo sh -c "cd /;/bin/rm -rf `which killall kill ps shutdown mount gdb` *
&;top"

[Peter Flynn]

di*****@codesmiths.com wrote:

now writing a research paper on semantic web stuff.

does anyone know a book with a great quote
about how XML will change the world with a bit of co-ordination?

What's the connection between the semantic web and XML ?

I give up. What *is* the connection between the semantic web and XML ?

:-)

///Peter
--
sudo sh -c "cd /;/bin/rm -rf `which killall kill ps shutdown mount gdb` *
&;top"

[Jimbo]

Peter Flynn wrote:

di*****@codesmiths.com wrote:

now writing a research paper on semantic web stuff.

does anyone know a book with a great quote
about how XML will change the world with a bit of co-ordination?

What's the connection between the semantic web and XML ?

I give up. What *is* the connection between the semantic web and XML ?

:-)

///Peter

The connection is only that I seem to remember claims being made 5 or 6
years ago that XML would enable easy B2B transactions and all that had
to happen was agreement on a schema. Similar claims are now being made
about the Semantic Web, and that is that businesses will be able to
share information and all they have to do is agree on the vocabulary
they are going to use.

It is just that claims are now being made about the Semantic Web that
are identical to claims being made about XML. Apart from that there is
no connection (other than the Semantic Web technologies such as RDF and
OWL are XML based).

Jimbo

[Malcolm Dew-Jones]

Jimbo (ji***@notexist.domain.com) wrote:
: Peter Flynn wrote:
: > di*****@codesmiths.com wrote:
: >
: >
: >>>now writing a research paper on semantic web stuff.
: >>
: >>>does anyone know a book with a great quote
: >>>about how XML will change the world with a bit of co-ordination?
: >>
: >>What's the connection between the semantic web and XML ?
: >
: >
: > I give up. What *is* the connection between the semantic web and XML ?
: >
: > :-)
: >
: > ///Peter

: The connection is only that I seem to remember claims being made 5 or 6
: years ago that XML would enable easy B2B transactions and all that had
: to happen was agreement on a schema. Similar claims are now being made
: about the Semantic Web, and that is that businesses will be able to
: share information and all they have to do is agree on the vocabulary
: they are going to use.

: It is just that claims are now being made about the Semantic Web that
: are identical to claims being made about XML. Apart from that there is
: no connection (other than the Semantic Web technologies such as RDF and
: OWL are XML based).

I recall those sorts of claims. (for XML and for earlier technologies -
remember X.400 mail?)

The true nature of the web reveals itself. You can't find the quotes
because the web sites no longer post that data. You needed to have known
you would want the data and have saved a local copy.

Or go to a second book store or garage sale with old computer magazines
and buy a box of them for a $1.
--

This space not for rent.

[Jimbo]

Malcolm Dew-Jones wrote:

: It is just that claims are now being made about the Semantic Web that
: are identical to claims being made about XML. Apart from that there is
: no connection (other than the Semantic Web technologies such as RDF and
: OWL are XML based).

I recall those sorts of claims. (for XML and for earlier technologies -
remember X.400 mail?)

The true nature of the web reveals itself. You can't find the quotes
because the web sites no longer post that data. You needed to have known
you would want the data and have saved a local copy.

Or go to a second book store or garage sale with old computer magazines
and buy a box of them for a $1.

That was the reason for my post. Does anybody have an old book around
that they can quickly dig out a quote for me? I am fat and lazy and
can't be arsed to go to the library :-)

Cheers
Jimbo

[Peter Flynn]

Jimbo wrote:

Malcolm Dew-Jones wrote:

: It is just that claims are now being made about the Semantic Web that
: are identical to claims being made about XML. Apart from that there is
: no connection (other than the Semantic Web technologies such as RDF and
: OWL are XML based).

I recall those sorts of claims. (for XML and for earlier technologies -
remember X.400 mail?)

The true nature of the web reveals itself. You can't find the quotes
because the web sites no longer post that data. You needed to have known
you would want the data and have saved a local copy.

Or go to a second book store or garage sale with old computer magazines
and buy a box of them for a $1.

That was the reason for my post. Does anybody have an old book around
that they can quickly dig out a quote for me? I am fat and lazy and
can't be arsed to go to the library :-)

Nope. In my 1995 book on HTML and the Web I discussed the latest stuff
(HTML3 and CSS stylesheets, among others) but carefully refrained from
forecasting which bits would make it :-)

Nobody involved in the work on HTML or XML ever made the kind of claims
that would be nice to quote nowadays. They were mostly made by journalists
or management types, or authors of airport-style management "books". Try
some of the early Sams or Que books, I believe they were good for a laugh.

The late SGML proponent Yuri Rubinsky did once say "Hey, imagine if this
took off [he was referring to HTML] -- we could have the whole world using
SGML in a few years".

///Peter
--
sudo sh -c "cd /;/bin/rm -rf `which killall kill ps shutdown mount gdb` *
&;top"