RCP framework for .NET?

[Alex Shneyderman]

I am quite new to C# so if the question sounds a bit silly do not judge to
harshly.

I was wondering how does one develop enterprise-size rich clients in .NET?
Is there a framework to start with?

One can say .NET is the framework. I just can't see how any decent size
enterprise client can be developed in a reasonable amount of time. So my
guess is that there has to be some more abstract framework that would be
built on top of .NET.

For those who ever worked with PowerBuilder the analogy here would be PFC.
And for those who ever done anything with java analogy would be Eclipse. I
really can't better explain what exactly I am looking for, but to throw some
analogies.

So is there anything out there that can jump-start the development of the RC
application?

Thanks,
Alex.

[Sean Hederman]

I'm really struggling to understand what you're looking for Alex. You
mention PFC which is a UI library for Powerbuilder and seems to offer pretty
much the same sort of services as Windows Forms and System.Data. You also
mention Eclipse which is an IDE. You then ask for a more abstract set of
classes than .NET offers, but you don't indicate in what way the .NET
classes aren't abstract enough.

I'm also not sure what you mean by RCP, or RC? Could you explain those
acronyms and maybe I can get a clearer idea of what you're looking for.

"Alex Shneyderman" <Alex Sh*********@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:D5**********************************@microsof t.com...

I am quite new to C# so if the question sounds a bit silly do not judge to
harshly.

I was wondering how does one develop enterprise-size rich clients in .NET?
Is there a framework to start with?

One can say .NET is the framework. I just can't see how any decent size
enterprise client can be developed in a reasonable amount of time.
So my guess is that there has to be some more abstract framework that
would be
built on top of .NET.

For those who ever worked with PowerBuilder the analogy here would be PFC.
And for those who ever done anything with java analogy would be Eclipse. I
really can't better explain what exactly I am looking for, but to throw
some
analogies.

So is there anything out there that can jump-start the development of the
RC
application?

Thanks,
Alex.

[Alex Shneyderman]

I'm really struggling to understand what you're looking for Alex. You
mention PFC which is a UI library for Powerbuilder and seems to offer pretty
much the same sort of services as Windows Forms and System.Data. You also

you are not exactly accurate about PFC. PowerBuilder would be equivalent of
..NET. PFC was an abstract layer, much of whose functionality was, believe it
or not, non-visual. Well more than half that is for sure.

But let me try to be a bit more specific on my question. What both PFC and
Eclipse provide is the general kind of functionality. I will talk
Eclipse-wise since it is fresher in my memory. For example Eclipse has a
Workbench component that is pretty much non-visual component whose hole
purpose is to manage all there is to manage about RCP (Rich Client Platform)
-

- Keep track of open windows and serve as a general registry for who is
active who is open and who can be accessed.

- Keep information about the layout of a window (or as they call it Eclipse
perspective). This is basically controlling what views/editors (see below for
what they are) are open and where they are located. How to break up the
window.

- Provide view sites for views. Views are portions of the window that
display only certain aspect of the Model behind your system.

- Provide Editor sites - similar to views but allow to edit your model. It
can be a form or an editor in a real sense of the editor.

- Selection manager: if one object selected in view A and event has to be
propagated to view B because view B has to be updated, an event is being
propagted automatically to the view B all you have to do as developer
describe what to do in the event.

- Progress manager: you can enroll a trhead to be monitored and a progress
bar on the bottom allows: see progreess; cancel a job; get detailed window to
pop up.

- Status bar manager: similar to progress monitor .
- Theme management.
- Self update management.

It is hard to mention all of the functionality the eclipse provide and I am
not mentioning a lot of stuff here. Plugin structure of the system would be
the one I really need but I am not going to go into details about it.

As you can see there is really noting particular about IDE in the features I
just described above. As the matter of fact about a year and a half or so ago
it became so apparent to Eclipse community that they created a separate
project called Eclipse RCP (Rich Client Platform). The generic functionality
of Eclipse IDE was separated out and can be reused over and over without your
application being IDE.

So, sure I can develop all of this with crude components, but I was
wondering if there is anything like that already out there, that I can just
take, learn about and start being productive?

Thanks,
Alex.

[Alex Shneyderman]

Thanks for your interest, Sean!

I'm really struggling to understand what you're looking for Alex. You
mention PFC which is a UI library for Powerbuilder and seems to offer pretty
much the same sort of services as Windows Forms and System.Data. You also

you are not exactly accurate about PFC. PowerBuilder would be equivalent of
..NET. PFC was an abstract layer, much of whose functionality was believe it
or not non-visual, the functionality I am in serach of in .NET

But let me try to be a bit more specific on my question. What both PFC and
Eclipse provide is the general kind of functionality that is needed to build
rich client GUIs. I will talk Eclipse-wise since it is fresher in my memory.
For example one of the major Eclipse components is a Workbench, that is
pretty much non-visual component whose hole purpose is to manage all there is
to manage about RCP (Rich Client Platform) -

- Keep track of open windows and serve as a general registry for who is
active who is open and who can be accessed. (I guess MDI would fit the bill
in this aspect)

- Keep information about the layout of a window (or as they call it in
Eclipse perspective). This is basically controlling what views/editors (see
below for what they are) are open and where they are located. How to break up
the window.

- Provide view sites for views. Views are portions of the window that
display only certain aspect of the Model behind your system.

- Provide Editor sites - similar to views but allow to edit your model. It
can be a form or an editor in a real sense of the editor.

- Selection manager: if one object selected in view A and event has to be
propagated to view B because view B has to be updated, an event is being
propagted automatically to the view B all you have to do as developer
describe what to do in the event.

- Progress manager: you can enroll a trhead to be monitored and a progress
bar on the bottom allows: see progreess; cancel a job; get detailed window to
pop up.

- Status bar manager: similar to progress monitor .
- Theme management.
- Self update management.

It is hard to mention all of the functionality the eclipse provide and I am
not mentioning a lot of stuff here. Plugin structure of the system would be
the one I really need but I am not going to go into details about it.

As you can see there is really noting particular about IDE in the features I
just described above. As the matter of fact about a year and a half or so ago
it became so apparent to Eclipse community that they created a separate
project called Eclipse RCP (Rich Client Platform). The generic functionality
of Eclipse IDE was separated out and can be reused over and over without your
application being IDE.

So, sure I can develop all of this with crude components, but I was
wondering if there is anything like that already out there, that I can just
take, learn about and start being productive?

Thanks,
Alex.

[Sean Hederman]

Now I get it. Right, can I suggest you look at SharpDevelop? It's an OSS IDE
for .NET written in C#, and I believe they use many of the idioms you're
looking for.

"Alex Shneyderman" <Al*************@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:B4**********************************@microsof t.com...

Thanks for your interest, Sean!

I'm really struggling to understand what you're looking for Alex. You
mention PFC which is a UI library for Powerbuilder and seems to offer
pretty
much the same sort of services as Windows Forms and System.Data. You also

you are not exactly accurate about PFC. PowerBuilder would be equivalent
of
.NET. PFC was an abstract layer, much of whose functionality was believe
it
or not non-visual, the functionality I am in serach of in .NET

But let me try to be a bit more specific on my question. What both PFC and
Eclipse provide is the general kind of functionality that is needed to
build
rich client GUIs. I will talk Eclipse-wise since it is fresher in my
memory.
For example one of the major Eclipse components is a Workbench, that is
pretty much non-visual component whose hole purpose is to manage all there
is
to manage about RCP (Rich Client Platform) -

- Keep track of open windows and serve as a general registry for who is
active who is open and who can be accessed. (I guess MDI would fit the
bill
in this aspect)

- Keep information about the layout of a window (or as they call it in
Eclipse perspective). This is basically controlling what views/editors
(see
below for what they are) are open and where they are located. How to break
up
the window.

- Provide view sites for views. Views are portions of the window that
display only certain aspect of the Model behind your system.

- Provide Editor sites - similar to views but allow to edit your model. It
can be a form or an editor in a real sense of the editor.

- Selection manager: if one object selected in view A and event has to be
propagated to view B because view B has to be updated, an event is being
propagted automatically to the view B all you have to do as developer
describe what to do in the event.

- Progress manager: you can enroll a trhead to be monitored and a progress
bar on the bottom allows: see progreess; cancel a job; get detailed window
to
pop up.

- Status bar manager: similar to progress monitor .
- Theme management.
- Self update management.

It is hard to mention all of the functionality the eclipse provide and I
am
not mentioning a lot of stuff here. Plugin structure of the system would
be
the one I really need but I am not going to go into details about it.

As you can see there is really noting particular about IDE in the features
I
just described above. As the matter of fact about a year and a half or so
ago
it became so apparent to Eclipse community that they created a separate
project called Eclipse RCP (Rich Client Platform). The generic
functionality
of Eclipse IDE was separated out and can be reused over and over without
your
application being IDE.

So, sure I can develop all of this with crude components, but I was
wondering if there is anything like that already out there, that I can
just
take, learn about and start being productive?

Thanks,
Alex.

[Alex Shneyderman]

Now I get it. Right, can I suggest you look at SharpDevelop? It's an OSS IDE
for .NET written in C#, and I believe they use many of the idioms you're
looking for.

Thanks, Sean!
they even have a free book!!!
I will check them out.

Alex.