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Suggestions for tools, processes for new team

P: n/a

I'd like to get suggestions from some of the folks here
regarding tools and processes for a new, small development
team.

I'm starting a new job next week, and part of the fun is
being able to start fresh. It's a bit different than
what I've done in the past, in a smaller organization
than I'm used to.

Very small team; about 4 developers, 4 additional IT support
people, supporting and developing applications for a firm
of about 80 people. Firm is all-Microsoft, we will be working
in DotNet. They like web-based systems, as they want to offer
some functionality to associated organizations via the web.

Everything I've done with DotNet thus far has been just
me working alone. I've been using NUnit, looked at NAnt,
but that's about it for tools for DotNet. I'm also interested
in suggestions for CM systems, bug tracking and project
management tools.

I've used SourceSafe, of course, and CVS, and I've used PVCS
in years past, but as the organization is interested in
all-Microsoft, Win CVS may not be the best choice.

I'll be broaching the subject of Open-Source tools with them
in the near future.

Alternate suggestions, particularly those for DotNet, and what
might be reasonable alternatives to Open Source tools would
be appreciated. I'd like to have other options in case I
run into objections to some of the things I've used in the
past.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Ron Ruble

ra******@att.net
Jul 21 '05 #1
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10 Replies


P: n/a
Hi Ron,

First of all, I would like to confirm my understanding of your issue. From
your description, I understand that you need some suggestions on bug
tracking, project managedment and source control tools. If there is any
misunderstanding, please feel free to let me know.

Based on my experience, VSS is of course the best choice for your to do
source control. It can be integrated with VS.NET IDE perfectly. For bug
tracking and project management, you can try to use Bugzilla. Bugzilla is
server software designed to help you manage software development. For more
information, please check the following link.

http://www.bugzilla.org/

In the next version of .NET, there will be many tools like that integrated
in Visual Studio Team System. For more information, please check the
following link

http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/vs2005/teamsystem/

Kevin Yu
=======
"This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights."

Jul 21 '05 #2

P: n/a
"Kevin Yu [MSFT]" <v-****@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:k5*************@cpmsftngxa10.phx.gbl...
Hi Ron,

First of all, I would like to confirm my understanding of your issue. From
your description, I understand that you need some suggestions on bug
tracking, project managedment and source control tools. If there is any
misunderstanding, please feel free to let me know.

Based on my experience, VSS is of course the best choice for your to do
source control.


"Best choice"?

VSS doesn't use a database to store source control information, so it is
subject to data corruption. I strongly recommend that you use a product
which actually cares about your data. SourceGear Vault is the one I usually
recommend.

John Saunders
Jul 21 '05 #3

P: n/a
<"John Saunders" <johnwsaundersiii at hotmail.com>> wrote:
Based on my experience, VSS is of course the best choice for your to do
source control.


"Best choice"?

VSS doesn't use a database to store source control information, so it is
subject to data corruption. I strongly recommend that you use a product
which actually cares about your data. SourceGear Vault is the one I usually
recommend.


While I haven't used Vault, I'd second the idea of looking at products
other than VSS. Not only can VSS lose data, but it was never designed
as a proper client/server system - when accessing it over a VPN, it's
painfully slow.

For free solutions, have a look at Subversion and CVS.

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too
Jul 21 '05 #4

P: n/a
Jon Skeet [C# MVP] wrote:
<"John Saunders" <johnwsaundersiii at hotmail.com>> wrote:
Based on my experience, VSS is of course the best choice for your to do
source control.


"Best choice"?

VSS doesn't use a database to store source control information, so it is
subject to data corruption. I strongly recommend that you use a product
which actually cares about your data. SourceGear Vault is the one I usually
recommend.

While I haven't used Vault, I'd second the idea of looking at products
other than VSS. Not only can VSS lose data, but it was never designed
as a proper client/server system - when accessing it over a VPN, it's
painfully slow.


Without getting into the whole VSS issue, I am aware of and
agree about the possibility of data corruption in SourceSafe.

Most of that, of course, can be mitigated with good backups,
regularly running the Analyze utility, and archiving off old
data. Since it is a small team, I am not going to reject VSS
out of hand, but I would prefer to have other options.

I like CVS, heard good things about SubVersion. Any SubVersion
of CVS tips for DotNet? I know there are lots of goodies to
integrate CVS into various IDEs, but any tips would be
good, esp. re: SubVersion (I don't use integrated revision
control, but other people seem to like it).
Jul 21 '05 #5

P: n/a
John Saunders wrote:
"Kevin Yu [MSFT]" <v-****@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:k5*************@cpmsftngxa10.phx.gbl...
Hi Ron,

First of all, I would like to confirm my understanding of your issue. From
your description, I understand that you need some suggestions on bug
tracking, project managedment and source control tools. If there is any
misunderstanding, please feel free to let me know.

Based on my experience, VSS is of course the best choice for your to do
source control.

"Best choice"?

VSS doesn't use a database to store source control information, so it is
subject to data corruption. I strongly recommend that you use a product
which actually cares about your data. SourceGear Vault is the one I usually
recommend.

John Saunders


Good to know. Any specifics you like about Vault, esp. as
regards DotNet?
Jul 21 '05 #6

P: n/a
Kevin Yu [MSFT] wrote:
Hi Ron,

First of all, I would like to confirm my understanding of your issue. From
your description, I understand that you need some suggestions on bug
tracking, project managedment and source control tools. If there is any
misunderstanding, please feel free to let me know.

Based on my experience, VSS is of course the best choice for your to do
source control. It can be integrated with VS.NET IDE perfectly.
Others have commented on SourceSafe's limits. I don't hate
it*, but I'm not wedded to it. I don't care for integrating
an RCS into the IDE, but others like it.
For bug
tracking and project management, you can try to use Bugzilla. Bugzilla is
server software designed to help you manage software development. For more
information, please check the following link.

http://www.bugzilla.org/
Looked at it, never used it. Thanks.
In the next version of .NET, there will be many tools like that integrated
in Visual Studio Team System. For more information, please check the
following link

http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/vs2005/teamsystem/
I'll check it out, thanks.
Kevin Yu
=======
"This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights."


* Actually, I'm kind of fond of it. I first used SourceSafe
on a project after a project on which I fought with a couple
of teams of developers who absolutely would not use a revision
control system without being hammered on the head every day.

Constantly whining about the inconvenience.

By contrast, I have run into exactly 2 developers in the
last 10 years who failed to use SourceSafe. In both cases,
a little one on one coaching resolved the problem (one
developer had never used an RCS, and just needed training).

A great tool is no good if no one uses it, and I've been
in a lot of shops with great tools no one uses. SourceSafe,
in my experience, gets used. I'll use almost anything,
personally.
Jul 21 '05 #7

P: n/a
"Ron Ruble" <ra******@att.net> wrote in message
news:j1*******************@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
John Saunders wrote:
"Kevin Yu [MSFT]" <v-****@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:k5*************@cpmsftngxa10.phx.gbl...
Hi Ron,

First of all, I would like to confirm my understanding of your issue.
From
your description, I understand that you need some suggestions on bug
tracking, project managedment and source control tools. If there is any
misunderstanding, please feel free to let me know.

Based on my experience, VSS is of course the best choice for your to do
source control.

"Best choice"?

VSS doesn't use a database to store source control information, so it is
subject to data corruption. I strongly recommend that you use a product
which actually cares about your data. SourceGear Vault is the one I
usually recommend.

John Saunders


Good to know. Any specifics you like about Vault, esp. as
regards DotNet?


It integrates well with VS.NET, and it's from a company whose business has
been source control for years.

This is in comparison to VSS, which has hardly changed since version 6.0.
Notice the number of dialogs which can't resize to greater than 640x480?

BTW, I found that backups and running Analyze were not sufficient to prevent
data loss. We had several situations where names.dat was corrupted and could
not be recovered. We lost at least a day's work each time this happened, and
I finally became disgusted with a product which uses the term "SourceSafe
Database" to describe a bunch of files on a share somewhere.

John Saunders
Jul 21 '05 #8

P: n/a
Ron Ruble wrote:
Jon Skeet [C# MVP] wrote:
<"John Saunders" <johnwsaundersiii at hotmail.com>> wrote:
Based on my experience, VSS is of course the best choice for your to do
source control.

I have never had the "pleasure" of working with VSS, but several people
i know have. They pretty much all wish they never had though :)
I like CVS, heard good things about SubVersion. Any SubVersion
of CVS tips for DotNet? I know there are lots of goodies to
integrate CVS into various IDEs, but any tips would be
good, esp. re: SubVersion (I don't use integrated revision
control, but other people seem to like it).


<sales-mode>
I would definatly recommend SVN over CVS. I have migrated two companies
i've worked for from CVS to SVN, and both have been overjoyed at the result.

There is a plugin for SVN in VisualStudio: http://ankhsvn.tigris.org/,
i've tried it and it seems to work, although i practically always commit
changes to an entire pject at a time (it's very natural to do this in SVN).

The fabulous tortoisesvn (http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/) plugs into the
windows explorer (not iexplore, but the win32 shell), and provides a
rather nifty user-interface.

Many of the problematic issues of CVS have been resolved in SVN.
</sales-mode>

Really, don't go for CVS, pick SVN instead. The one thing that really
remains to make it a killer revision-control system is centrally
controlled environments is automatic support for repeated merges of
branches.
--
Helge
Jul 21 '05 #9

P: n/a
Helge Jensen wrote:
<ssip>
<sales-mode>
I would definatly recommend SVN over CVS. I have migrated two companies
i've worked for from CVS to SVN, and both have been overjoyed at the
result.

There is a plugin for SVN in VisualStudio: http://ankhsvn.tigris.org/,
i've tried it and it seems to work, although i practically always commit
changes to an entire pject at a time (it's very natural to do this in SVN).
Excellent; I'll check it out.
The fabulous tortoisesvn (http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/) plugs into the
windows explorer (not iexplore, but the win32 shell), and provides a
rather nifty user-interface.

Many of the problematic issues of CVS have been resolved in SVN.
</sales-mode>

Really, don't go for CVS, pick SVN instead. The one thing that really
remains to make it a killer revision-control system is centrally
controlled environments is automatic support for repeated merges of
branches.


This is the kind of thing I was hoping to get; personal
opinions backed up by some details.

Many thanks!
Jul 21 '05 #10

P: n/a
Hi Ron,

Thanks for sharing your experience with all the people here. If you have
any questions, please feel free to post them in the community.

Kevin Yu
=======
"This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights."

Jul 21 '05 #11

This discussion thread is closed

Replies have been disabled for this discussion.