is a database an application?

[BMM]

Hi. I have a dumb question. Is a database an application? And, in the
context of a data-driven web-enabled application, is the database still an
application? I have a project lead who says it is. In fact, he says that our
web application is a set of "distributed applications" because

* the database is an application, and
* clients connecting to our web app will connect with a web browser (an
application) and may put data pulled from the database into a spreadsheet
program like Excel (an application).

Thus, "distributed applications".

I realize that a database is an example of "application software" -- as
opposed to "system software". And that it is shrink-wrappable. (see def here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Databas...s_of_databases)

But in the context of a web app a database is most definitely /not/ an
application. It is a data store. And I know that a web app is one that has a
multi-tiered architecture... and that it has distributed application
/components/. But how can I convince the project lead (who believes he knows
everything about software because he has a degree in, um, orbital mechanics)
of this and prevent our specifications documents -- which are in the process
of being written -- from incorrectly referring to our web application as a
"set of applications".

Brian

[Cor Ligthert]

Hi BMM,

A database is definitly not an application. A simple textfile is a database.

To get good management around those data there are created applications
which by instance help you to access the data, that are database
applications.

You can by instance with Visual Studio Net, create an access database and
access that while using the classes from dotNet and Ado. However that is
impossible (in an efficient way) for SQL server because that has his own
mechanisme to access the data. So there is the SQL server Application to
manage and access the data however the database itself stays a database).

In other words a database application is an application and when you want to
deploy by instance SQL server, that should be when it is not reachable be
deployed as well.

A distributed application is not a program it is is a way of using the
program and the data, however what is in those words, now you are reading a
message, is that a distributed application?

I hope this helps?

Cor

[BMM]

"Nate Smith" <> wrote in message news:_r********************@net1plus.com...

the web browser is the application. the scripts or applets that
the webpage fires up are applications.

an application has to _do_ something,
not just sit there & look pretty.

Thanks Nate. But I think that an application has to have some standalone
capacity. In the case of a data-driven, web-enabled application, none of the
component parts (Javascript on the client side, business logic in the web
tier, and data access logic in the data tier) can operate independently of
the others -- thus they are application /components/.

Also, yes, a web browser is an application. But in the context of a
web-enabled application, it doesn't turn that web app into a "set of
distributed applications"... right?

Brian

[BMM]

"Cor Ligthert" <no**********@planet.nl> wrote in message
news:uJ**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...

A distributed application is not a program it is is a way of using the
program and the data, however what is in those words, now you are reading a message, is that a distributed application?

I hope this helps?

Hey Cor,

Don't know that I agree with you. A distributed application refers to a
single application (or program)... and that application has /components/
that are distributed across different logical tiers of a network
architecture.

Does that make sense?

Brian

[Cor Ligthert]

> > A distributed application is not a program it is is a way of using the

program and the data, however what is in those words, now you are

reading a

message, is that a distributed application?

I hope this helps?

Don't know that I agree with you. A distributed application refers to a
single application (or program)... and that application has /components/
that are distributed across different logical tiers of a network
architecture.

Does that make sense?

The word "distributed" gives for me no extra information in this context. It
is for me an empty word. You can than say that every application which uses
a server in always distributed. Giving the data by a SQL server can seen as
distribution, however for me than everything is a distributed application,
when it is not clearly a stand alone application.

I asked you about the newsmail, you can see that as distributed, you started
on your computer your newsreader, did give the command passing your
provider to read a message on a newsserver (which database can be very
distributed and therefore it is a distributed database) and around that
database is processing to give you the right message(s) back and in the end
of that process make it possible for you to read it in your newsreader.

Is it a distributed proces? did it add(proces) something to that message
special for you?

Here is a simple sample of a distributed application where processing can
have place on the server and on the client.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...alkthrough.asp

However this are again one of those abstracts from which I always think you
can go every way with it which fits you. In the information world they are
always changing in the best way for the commercial guys and girls.

Cor

[Silvio Bierman]

"BMM" <mo*****@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:s8******************@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...

Hi. I have a dumb question. Is a database an application? And, in the
context of a data-driven web-enabled application, is the database still an
application? I have a project lead who says it is. In fact, he says that our web application is a set of "distributed applications" because

* the database is an application, and
* clients connecting to our web app will connect with a web browser (an
application) and may put data pulled from the database into a spreadsheet
program like Excel (an application).

Thus, "distributed applications".

I realize that a database is an example of "application software" -- as
opposed to "system software". And that it is shrink-wrappable. (see def here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Databas...s_of_databases)

But in the context of a web app a database is most definitely /not/ an
application. It is a data store. And I know that a web app is one that has a multi-tiered architecture... and that it has distributed application
/components/. But how can I convince the project lead (who believes he knows everything about software because he has a degree in, um, orbital mechanics) of this and prevent our specifications documents -- which are in the process of being written -- from incorrectly referring to our web application as a
"set of applications".

Brian

A database could be seen as an application when you look at it from the
viewpoint of an (operating) system developer. For most developers, however,
a database is some form of core component that he uses in his applications.
I agree with you on that.

Unless something like applets or JS is used for substantial client-side
behaviour a web-app is not a distributed application. In fact it is closer
to a traditional terminal-based aplication. It is even less distributed than
a client/server app since all users are managed through a central
application instead of multiple client applications.

A distributed application contains multiple application level components
(not genereic system components like a database or a browser) running on
different host and using an application level communication protocol to
realise some cooperative application behaviour.

Silvio Bierman

[Eric Bardes]

In article <uJ**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>,
Cor Ligthert <no**********@planet.nl> wrote:

A database is definitly not an application. A simple textfile is a database.

It depends on if you define a database as a collection of information
or or if you define a database as the sophistcated application that
manages that collection.

Both view are valid, but often lead to "fun" discussions when two people
don't realize they don't even agree on definitions.

Eric

[Cor Ligthert]

Hi Eric,

It depends on if you define a database as a collection of information
or or if you define a database as the sophistcated application that
manages that collection.
Why did you not quote this in my text as well and did give comments on only
a part which had withouth the rest of the text no sense? This is a kind of
creative quoting in my opinion. When you quote you have to do or the whole
text or all things that are relevant for your answer.
In other words a database application is an application and when you want todeploy by instance SQL server, that should be when it is not reachable be
deployed as well.

With that I tried to show that there was a difference between a database
application and a database which has only "data" (for information you need
to process it).

To show you a kind of creative quoting what I could do with your text
It depends on if you define information or if you define a sophistcated

"fun" discussions

I did not shift any word, only let text out.

Cor