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Why choose SQL Express over Access?

ljh
Why would you choose SQL Express (which requires an installed application to
work) over the simplicity of an Access database which has no dependencies?

May 30 '06
74 3820
ljh
Yep....but that defeats the whole ease-of-use thing that a no-install
solution like SQLite or SQL\e provides.

Especially when you have a hosted web-app.....SQL\e would be perfect for
that. Nothing to "install" (i.e. register) on the hosts servers.

It's just that MS wants you to pay to do a decent web-app. IMHO, it helps
them control competition somewhat (at least from the little guys) to thier
web-centric offerings. What other reasons could thier be to specifically
disable it under any IIS process? Greed?

As far as I can see....if you're small and have a great idea, MS SQL is
probably NOT the thing to use (at least SQLite is easier to deploy and has
greater capacity than SQL\e or SQL\x).

"William Stacey [MVP]" <wi************ @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:uy******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP04.phx.gbl...
| It doesn't look like they'll let us use it to power webservices under IIS
| though.

Couldn't you use SQL Express for that?

May 31 '06 #21
ljh

"William Stacey [MVP]" <wi************ @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:eE******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP03.phx.gbl...
| Got confirmation from MS that they're deliberately breaking compatability
| with SQL\e running under IIS - they call it "soft-blocking".

Not sure how they would do that other then via license. I mean a sql
query
is not going to look any different coming from asp.net page or from your
own
host?
Not sure.....that's the word I got back from Steve Lasker when I emailed him
earlier today.

| Sounds all fluffy and sweet....but what it means is that you won't be
able
| to use SQL\e to easily deploy webservices (actually you can;t use it to
| deploy them at all - easy or not).

Again, I think you should at least be able to use SQL Express and it is
free. IMHO, that product is a sweet and generous gift from MS.


It is....for machines where you can install anything you want. For ASP.Net
hosted webservers, it sucks.
May 31 '06 #22
ljh wrote:
I'm trying it out. But, I can't even get it to create an empty db so that
I can use the VS.Net 2005 tools to create the tables, columns, etc.

I type "sqlite3 test.db" at the C:\ prompt (where I have a copy of
sqlite3.exe. Then, I type ".exit" and look for the empyt db....but there is
nothing there.

Any suggestions?


Just use the example C# code on the site:

http://adodotnetsqlite.sourceforge.net/

Click on "Documentat ion & Examples" and then click on "C# SourceCode
Example". I just copied-n-pasted the code into a Console App project
and ran it and the DB was created for me. The DB is created in the same
folder as your compiled exe. So if you do a debug build look in the
Debug folder.

Sqlite is very nice, very fast, and supports most of SQL92, databases up
to 2 terabytes, BLOBs and a lot more all either a 250KB dll or the
reduced featur 150KB dll. Best of all is that it is Open Source. No
restrictions on usage. SQL Server is great for a full DB. However, for
anything less, MS just doesn't have a good offering IMO. I don't want
to deal with proprietary restrictions on where/how I can include a
database file with my app.

Give Sqlite a shot, I think you will be pretty happy with it.

The steps to do a quick test console app:

Download Sqlite. Get version 3 without the TCL bindings:
http://www.sqlite.org/download.html

Download the ADO.Net data provider named Finisar.SQLite. Note, this
comes with a dll version of sqlite, however I use the version from the
official site listed above.
http://adodotnetsqlite.sourceforge.net/

Copy the sqlite dll to your system path, C:\windows or c:\windows\syst em32.

Create a new C# Console Application. Add a reference to the SQLite.Net
dll that you downloaded.

Now you can copy-n-paste the example code in your Main() method from here:
http://adodotnetsqlite.sourceforge.n...rp_example.php

Happy hacking!

Jim
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
There's no place like 127.0.0.1
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
JimD
Central FL, USA, Earth, Sol
May 31 '06 #23
JimD wrote:

<snip>

I forgot to mention about the connection string in the example. The
connection string is:

Data Source=database .db;Version=3;N ew=True;Compres s=True;

The New=True token says to create a new database. So every time you run
the test program, you are creating a new database, overwriting the old.
You probably don't want to do that with a real application. So you
would only use the New=True in a connection string when you want to
create a database for the first time. After that, you can either remove
New=True or change it to New=False.
Jim
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
There's no place like 127.0.0.1
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
JimD
Central FL, USA, Earth, Sol
May 31 '06 #24
ljh
I was looking at the site () and came across "Version 1.0.14 of the SQLite
..Net Data Provider for ADO.NET 2.0/VS 2005 is out and includes design-time
support. You can now create databases, design queries, and drag-and-drop
tables to create typed datasets within Visual Studio 2005. "

Is this capability still in there? I didn't see any examples of this. If
SQLite is as easy to use as this quote seems to make it (i.e. as easy to use
in the ide as SQL Express) we may just have a winner here.
"JimD" <Ji*@keeliegirl .dyndns.org> wrote in message
news:yu******** *********@torna do.tampabay.rr. com...
JimD wrote:

<snip>

I forgot to mention about the connection string in the example. The
connection string is:

Data Source=database .db;Version=3;N ew=True;Compres s=True;

The New=True token says to create a new database. So every time you run
the test program, you are creating a new database, overwriting the old.
You probably don't want to do that with a real application. So you
would only use the New=True in a connection string when you want to
create a database for the first time. After that, you can either remove
New=True or change it to New=False.
Jim
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
There's no place like 127.0.0.1
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
JimD
Central FL, USA, Earth, Sol

May 31 '06 #25
ljh
oops! forgot the link to the page where I saw the quote......

http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=489095

"ljh" <So**@where.els e> wrote in message
news:7e******** ***********@big news3.bellsouth .net...
I was looking at the site () and came across "Version 1.0.14 of the SQLite
.Net Data Provider for ADO.NET 2.0/VS 2005 is out and includes design-time
support. You can now create databases, design queries, and drag-and-drop
tables to create typed datasets within Visual Studio 2005. "

Is this capability still in there? I didn't see any examples of this. If
SQLite is as easy to use as this quote seems to make it (i.e. as easy to
use in the ide as SQL Express) we may just have a winner here.
"JimD" <Ji*@keeliegirl .dyndns.org> wrote in message
news:yu******** *********@torna do.tampabay.rr. com...
JimD wrote:

<snip>

I forgot to mention about the connection string in the example. The
connection string is:

Data Source=database .db;Version=3;N ew=True;Compres s=True;

The New=True token says to create a new database. So every time you run
the test program, you are creating a new database, overwriting the old.
You probably don't want to do that with a real application. So you
would only use the New=True in a connection string when you want to
create a database for the first time. After that, you can either remove
New=True or change it to New=False.
Jim
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
There's no place like 127.0.0.1
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
JimD
Central FL, USA, Earth, Sol


May 31 '06 #26
Okay .. why does SQL express suck? It doesn't suck .. !!! It runs on a full
fledged SQL engine, sure deployment is a pain, but migrating to a fullblown
SQL Server is relatively painless.
Also, can you elaborate -
| Got confirmation from MS that they're deliberately breaking
compatabili ty
| with SQL\e running under IIS - they call it "soft-blocking".


?

- Sahil Malik
http://www.winsmarts.com
http://blah.winsmarts.com


"ljh" <So**@where.els e> wrote in message
news:mo******** ***********@big news3.bellsouth .net...
"William Stacey [MVP]" <wi************ @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:eE******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP03.phx.gbl...
| Got confirmation from MS that they're deliberately breaking
compatabili ty
| with SQL\e running under IIS - they call it "soft-blocking".

Not sure how they would do that other then via license. I mean a sql
query
is not going to look any different coming from asp.net page or from your
own
host?


Not sure.....that's the word I got back from Steve Lasker when I emailed
him earlier today.

| Sounds all fluffy and sweet....but what it means is that you won't be
able
| to use SQL\e to easily deploy webservices (actually you can;t use it to
| deploy them at all - easy or not).

Again, I think you should at least be able to use SQL Express and it is
free. IMHO, that product is a sweet and generous gift from MS.


It is....for machines where you can install anything you want. For
ASP.Net hosted webservers, it sucks.

May 31 '06 #27
Ljh,
Why would you choose SQL Express (which requires an installed application
to work) over the simplicity of an Access database which has no
dependencies?


I see not much reasons why you cannot use better the Jet Engine over SQL
Express, if you want:

That every user can remove the database file at any time he wants
That your data is processed relatively slow
That you cannot use it as an InterNet database withouth webservice or
other webpart
To tell the path at deployment time
Create extra program parts for as the user wants to relocate his
database
Not much security of the data.
To deploy an empty database (wich is great if a user reinstalls and
overwrites his exising database)

Just my thought,

Cor
May 31 '06 #28
Ah SQL Express can be used with an IIS web site. SQL Everywhere cannot. It's
not designed to do so but SQL Express (still free) is.
Microsoft has done more for small business than any company I know. It now
offers three versions of its database technology for free. SQL Everywhere,
SQL Express and SQL Express Advanced Services that includes the Reporting
Services engine as well as Full Text Search.

If you just want to bash Microsoft, find some other forum.

--
_______________ _______________ ______
William (Bill) Vaughn
Author, Mentor, Consultant
Microsoft MVP
INETA Speaker
www.betav.com/blog/billva
www.betav.com
Please reply only to the newsgroup so that others can benefit.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
_______________ _______________ ____

"ljh" <So**@where.els e> wrote in message
news:_J******** ***********@big news3.bellsouth .net...
Awesome!

It doesn't look like they'll let us use it to power webservices under IIS
though.

That would suck. Allowing its use under IIS would make hosted web
development so much easier!

It would let small companies with big ideas give those ideas a shot at
succeeding without spending several thousand dollars for SQL Server.

But, I don't think MS is all that interested in helping small businesses
grow. And, that's too bad. Doing so would actually fatten the bottom
line at MS as the little businesses need more MS licenses and maybe a
"grown up" version of SQL Server.

If they did, who knows, it might even unseat MySQL as the web db king.

Thanks for the great link!

"William Stacey [MVP]" <wi************ @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Od******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP03.phx.gbl. ..
Another option for you may be SQL Everywhere. I think will be released
this
summer. 1.4mb with 7 dlls.
http://blogs.msdn.com/stevelasker/ar...whereInfo.aspx

--
William Stacey [MVP]

"ljh" <So**@where.els e> wrote in message
news:Dm******** ***********@big news3.bellsouth .net...
|I mean that you can use Access databases simply by including the .mdb
files
| with your application, whereas using SQL Server Express requires that
you
| install SQL Server Express and have it running in the backgound.
|
| In the event that I use SQL Server Express and need to redistribute it
with
| my app, is there a silent install available?
|
| <ja**********@g mail.com> wrote in message
| news:11******** **************@ u72g2000cwu.goo glegroups.com.. .
| > Well, I'm not sure what you mean by "requires an installed
application
| > to work". I just downloaded it, ran the setup & it worked. And,
since
| > your reluctance to do that is the *ONLY* requirement you specify for
| > your database needs, it's really hard to answer your question.
| >
| > So, the advantages of SQLExpress over Access, as I see them.
| > 1) It's free.
| > 2) It's directly compatible with Sql Server.
| >
|
|


May 31 '06 #29
ljh
The fact that you can't control SQL Express (due to the fact that you
usually don't control the HOSTED servers) and that you could get more data
into SQL Everywhere (or SQLite for that matter) simply by using the
available disk space than you do with most hosted website's db plans (which
will include hosted SQL Express servers) sucks!

The fact that MS has an edition of Mobile SQL that they are making available
for everything except IIS use sucks!

The fact that Micrsoft added code to SQL Everywhere to PREVENT it from being
used in an IIS process sucks! What about that don't you get?

Microsoft again makes a valiant run downfield with the ball.....only to stop
and sit on the 1 yard line.
"Sahil Malik [MVP C#]" <co************ *****@nospam.co m> wrote in message
news:Or******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP03.phx.gbl...
Okay .. why does SQL express suck? It doesn't suck .. !!! It runs on a
full fledged SQL engine, sure deployment is a pain, but migrating to a
fullblown SQL Server is relatively painless.
Also, can you elaborate -
| Got confirmation from MS that they're deliberately breaking
compatabilit y
| with SQL\e running under IIS - they call it "soft-blocking".

?

- Sahil Malik
http://www.winsmarts.com
http://blah.winsmarts.com


"ljh" <So**@where.els e> wrote in message
news:mo******** ***********@big news3.bellsouth .net...

"William Stacey [MVP]" <wi************ @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:eE******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP03.phx.gbl...
| Got confirmation from MS that they're deliberately breaking
compatabilit y
| with SQL\e running under IIS - they call it "soft-blocking".

Not sure how they would do that other then via license. I mean a sql
query
is not going to look any different coming from asp.net page or from your
own
host?


Not sure.....that's the word I got back from Steve Lasker when I emailed
him earlier today.

| Sounds all fluffy and sweet....but what it means is that you won't be
able
| to use SQL\e to easily deploy webservices (actually you can;t use it
to
| deploy them at all - easy or not).

Again, I think you should at least be able to use SQL Express and it is
free. IMHO, that product is a sweet and generous gift from MS.


It is....for machines where you can install anything you want. For
ASP.Net hosted webservers, it sucks.


May 31 '06 #30

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