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If .net and j2ee are so great...

43

how come m$Office isn't written in .net?

how come Open Office isn't written in j2ee?

how come dbms systems aren't written in either?

how come browsers aren't written in either?

how come RealPlayer, MediaPlayer and all applications
that need speed are written in c++ ? (except for
LimeWire, which is a piece of shit ).

how come Linux and all Linux applications are written
in c/c++ ?

--
http://geeks4dean.com Dean '04
Linux - Where the Beat, Meet the Elite

Jul 19 '05 #1
124 4983
43
Roedy Green:
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 05:22:49 GMT, 43 <ja*****@earthl ink.net> wrote or
quoted :
how come m$Office isn't written in .net?

how come Open Office isn't written in j2ee?


Because these are both server side technologies. Editing a document
is a solitary activity. It works best with instantaneous response to
each keystroke.


they are not 'server side'

web services are 'server side'

windows client and console applications are client side.

java applications and applets are both client side.

net beans can be either. rmi means strong clients and servers.

bottom line .net/j2ee can't write the p2p applications
that are going to dominate the next 10 years.

--
http://geeks4dean.com Dean '04
Linux - Where the Beat, Meet the Elite

Jul 19 '05 #2

"Roedy Green" <ro***@mindprod .com> wrote in message
news:hm******** *************** *********@4ax.c om...
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 05:22:49 GMT, 43 <ja*****@earthl ink.net> wrote or
quoted :
how come m$Office isn't written in .net?

how come Open Office isn't written in j2ee?


Because these are both server side technologies. Editing a document
is a solitary activity. It works best with instantaneous response to
each keystroke.


Actually,there is a good chunk of Office 2003 in .NET and it will
be moving to completely .NET switfly like most if not all MS products.

Windows 2003 Server depends heavily on the .NET Framework (whack your
c:\windows\asse mbly folder in Safe Mode and reboot and check the
Event Viewer).

I recall hearing a statistic that in Longhorn, large chunks of the
Win32 API are being moved to managed code. The API will go from
something
like 5x,xxx functions to 8,xxx functions with the difference existing
in new OO .NET assemblies.

Most of the new server products coming out require the Framework to
be installed. They are either entirely written in .NET (CMS, BizTalk),
or
partially (Commerce Server), or have strong ties (Win2K3 Server,
Exchange 2003, etc)

-c
Jul 19 '05 #3

"43" <ja*****@earthl ink.net> wrote in message
news:pa******** *************** *****@earthlink .net...
Roedy Green:
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 05:22:49 GMT, 43 <ja*****@earthl ink.net> wrote or quoted :
how come m$Office isn't written in .net?

how come Open Office isn't written in j2ee?


Because these are both server side technologies. Editing a document
is a solitary activity. It works best with instantaneous response to each keystroke.


they are not 'server side'

web services are 'server side'

windows client and console applications are client side.

java applications and applets are both client side.

net beans can be either. rmi means strong clients and servers.

bottom line .net/j2ee can't write the p2p applications
that are going to dominate the next 10 years.


..NET certainly can. I don't know about Java/J2EE, I won't comment
in that regard, but .NET certainly can.

In fact, MS Research has a rather large P2P project implemented
in the .NET Framework and it's pretty impressive.

-c
Jul 19 '05 #4
In comp.lang.java. advocacy 43 <ja*****@earthl ink.net> wrote:
: 43 <ja*****@earthl ink.net> wrote or quoted :

:>>how come m$Office isn't written in .net?
:>>
:>>how come Open Office isn't written in j2ee?
:>
:> Because these are both server side technologies. Editing a document
:> is a solitary activity. It works best with instantaneous response to
:> each keystroke.

: they are not 'server side'

J2EE is - as much as, say PHP is.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ ti*@tt1.org
Jul 19 '05 #5
..Not is not a technology but a marketing crap (AKA markitecture).
Converting M$Office to the .Not environment is easy... just start market
it as M$Office.Not
43 wrote:
how come m$Office isn't written in .net?

how come Open Office isn't written in j2ee?

how come dbms systems aren't written in either?

how come browsers aren't written in either?

how come RealPlayer, MediaPlayer and all applications
that need speed are written in c++ ? (except for
LimeWire, which is a piece of shit ).

how come Linux and all Linux applications are written
in c/c++ ?


Jul 19 '05 #6
Look what Moshe Sayag wrote in article <bi**********@n ew-usenet.uk.sun.c om>,
on Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:24:33 +0200
.Not is not a technology but a marketing crap (AKA markitecture).
Converting M$Office to the .Not environment is easy... just start market
it as M$Office.Not
43 wrote:
how come m$Office isn't written in .net?

how come Open Office isn't written in j2ee?


You show your lack of knowledge, .Net is a fully developed technology
designed by the best. C# for example is a programmers dream lang.
--
Thanks
Mark Marsella
Jul 19 '05 #7
mlw
43 wrote:

how come m$Office isn't written in .net?
I bet parts of it will be in the near future, but M$ office is so slow aqnd
disgusting that it doesn't make a difference. It will be crap, but people
will still get it on their systems and still have to pay for it.
how come Open Office isn't written in j2ee?
Because Java, and languages like it, including .NET, are interpreted
environments. They may play tricks with JITs "just in time" compilers, but
make no mistake, it is an interpreted environment.

C/C++ are not interpreted, they are compiled to machine code. Sure there are
a few theoretical examples of how a "JIT" enabled language may be able to
be faster than a compiled one, but for the most part both .NET and Java
have a huge amount of overhead and enforce an object model and programming
model that is very inefficient.

Say what you will, a well written C/C++ program will always be faster and
use less memory than a well written Java/.NET program because there is less
overhead.
how come dbms systems aren't written in either?
Similarly, a DBMS is a complex animal. Most DBMS designs require very
carefull control over memory, disk access, arrays, data types, etc. Items
in a database have to be as efficient as possible. A byte or two or eight,
dedicated to the programming language, would cause the system to choose a
disk based algorithm over a memory based one. At that point, you just lost
to your competitor.
how come browsers aren't written in either?
Anyone remember the "HotJava" browser? It was junk.
how come RealPlayer, MediaPlayer and all applications
that need speed are written in c++ ? (except for
LimeWire, which is a piece of shit ). Actually, I like LimeWire
how come Linux and all Linux applications are written
in c/c++ ?


Because all the systems come with these compilers, you have to get Java
elsewhere (usually)

Hey, Java and .NET, like VisualBasic and COBOL, are high level languages
intended for inexperienced developers or business applications. As such,
they are fine for things like LimeWire, Instant Message clients, and
perhaps some business logic stuff.

If you are going to write a system which needs 24x7 uptime, uses memory
extensively, needs to be fast, or needs to be efficient, those environments
just will not cut it. The VMs are huge to begin with and you have no real
control over memory or the specifics of your process. The only alternative
is C/C++.

Jul 19 '05 #8
mlw
Mark Marsella wrote:
Look what Moshe Sayag wrote in article
<bi**********@n ew-usenet.uk.sun.c om>, on Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:24:33 +0200
.Not is not a technology but a marketing crap (AKA markitecture).
Converting M$Office to the .Not environment is easy... just start market
it as M$Office.Not
43 wrote:
> how come m$Office isn't written in .net?
>
> how come Open Office isn't written in j2ee?
>


You show your lack of knowledge, .Net is a fully developed technology
designed by the best. C# for example is a programmers dream lang.


Having programmed and designed software and hardware for over 20 years, I
can honestly say .NET is a dreadful language and environment. Not only is
it a virtual copy of Java with just enough syntactic differences to be
annoying, its so much like Java that it is not usable for non-trivial
applications.

Interpreted languages will *NEVER* be sufficient for hard core performance
or 24x7x365 reliability. For these types of applications, you need serious
control over every aspect of the application, which these system do not
provide.
Jul 19 '05 #9
mlw <ml*@nospam.n o> wrote:

: Having programmed and designed software and hardware for over 20 years, I
: can honestly say .NET is a dreadful language and environment. Not only is
: it a virtual copy of Java with just enough syntactic differences to be
: annoying, its so much like Java that it is not usable for non-trivial
: applications.

: Interpreted languages will *NEVER* be sufficient for hard core performance
: or 24x7x365 reliability. [...]

You may have a long track record - but if you think Java and .NET are
interpreted... I reckon you are probably in need of a refresher course.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ ti*@tt1.org
Jul 19 '05 #10

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