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c# is a good way to learn c


After working in c# for a year, the only conclusion I can come to is
that I wish I knew c.

All I need is Linux, the gnu c compiler and I can do anything.

Web services are just open sockets hooked up to interfaces.

The Gtk is more than enough gui.

Jul 21 '05
354 15641
Olaf Baeyens poked his little head through the XP firewall and said:
Ahhh, you must be using a Microsoft compiler. Horrible error messages.
Many of them not comprehensible. Small errors yielding a tome of error
messages.

You want to see error messages that actually help you find the one true
error? Check out gcc/g++.
CBuilder is as bad as Visual C++.


What is CBuilder? If you mean C++ Builder by Borland, I disagree. It is
even worse than Visual C++ (unless you use only the compiler and stick to
true C++ without those stupid Borland extensions.)
It is very rewarding if you want to impress your fellow C/C++ programmers
with your knowledge.

But it is not very rewarding if you have a deadline and must add new
features because they forgot to tell me. And I have to explain to the
customer that adding this one stupid button will take a few weeks.
Oh, come off it. In gtk+, for example, that would be the work of a few
minutes, not a few weeks.
C/C++ in it's current state just misses all the necessary building blocks
needed to have something functional in a day or 2. (compared to C#)


Bullshit, pure and simple. Absolute bullshit. Although C# might be more
protective of fresh new coders who don't yet value their craft.

--
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
When all you have is Microsoft software, everything looks like Windows.
Jul 21 '05 #21
Sean Hederman poked his little head through the XP firewall and said:
"Linønut" <"=?iso-8859-1?Q?lin=F8nut?= "@bone.com> wrote in message
news:vc******** ************@co mcast.com...
[Snip]
The Linux kernel is nothing but C, for example. Bare gtk+ is nothing but
C. Yet, from this apparently barren ground, you get a sea of software.


Yes but the Linux kernel is also based on a 40-year old architecture, so I
suppose writing it in a 33-year old programming language makes a certain
sick kind of sense...


You MVPs sure are a bunch of know-nothings, aren't you?
The thing is that C has it's place, but it's certainly not every place. If
you were to tell me that I should write business solutions using C, I'd
have to ask what you were smoking.


Now, at last, a glimmer of sense. C isn't for everything, of course. Even
C++ isn't for everything. You probably want, say, Visual COBOL.
(I'm a C++ fanboy, by the way.)


For me it depends on how recently I used it. Memory has a way of fading
the frustration ;D


Odd. I found C to be a breath of fresh air after having to endure the
limitations of the old-style Pascal. I've found C++ to be a renewed breath
of fresh air, with some incredible support libraries, whether open source or
closed source.

I'm not tied to one company's view of what a language should be.

At this stage in my career, C++ is easy.

I'm sure C# has some merit, but with C/C++ making it easy for me to code
cross-platform, I don't feel any compelling need to look at C#. I'll wait
until someone has a project that demands I use it.

--
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
When all you have is Microsoft software, everything looks like Windows.
Jul 21 '05 #22
Olaf Baeyens poked his little head through the XP firewall and said:
> Thats a good idea. Learn C and make sure that you keep on using 20 year old > technologies. The job-market is too full anyway.
And now you know why being called an MVP is absolutely, totally useless.

What does this guy think? That Win32 is coded in C#?


Actually he is right, not to delve too deep into C. He is not referring
to C++!


Nor was I. Win32 is not C++, it is C.
The problem is that if you learn C first then you will have to unlearn
that way of thinking and this is very hard to do. But learn C++/C# first
and then it is much easier to see why C is outdated and hard to keep up
with if your code library gets big and you do not have to unlearn.
Sure, I agree.
A programmer coming form school should not take too much effort in
outdated languages, because by the time he has a job the new languages
will be far more in demand than the older ones. Unless you want to
specialize in a niche to keep outdated software running. The C population
is getting a lot of grey heir, and are preparing for their pension. ;-)
They are litteraly dying out. :-)


However, since I learned C first, and, while doing so, took great care to
develop pretty good habits in that language, C++ turned out to be a natural
progression for me.

As for being old, we'll come back to laugh at you for using C# when C++0x is
available, and you're a doddering old man like myself.

--
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
When all you have is Microsoft software, everything looks like Windows.
Jul 21 '05 #23
C# and Java are for those opportunist wimps (those who did not major in
CS or did a 3 month VB course in Brooklyn) who are just happy to jump on
to the Dot Com craze. They are the reason why the commercial software
industry is loaded with inefficient bad code. I have more respect for
COBOL programmer than this bunch of gold-diggers. They would be the one
to jump ship if Microsoft or Sun comes up with the next-big-heap-of-junk.
Linønut wrote:
Sean Hederman poked his little head through the XP firewall and said:

"Linønut" <"=?iso-8859-1?Q?lin=F8nut?= "@bone.com> wrote in message
news:vc****** **************@ comcast.com...
[Snip]


The Linux kernel is nothing but C, for example. Bare gtk+ is nothing but
C. Yet, from this apparently barren ground, you get a sea of software.


Yes but the Linux kernel is also based on a 40-year old architecture, so I
suppose writing it in a 33-year old programming language makes a certain
sick kind of sense...

You MVPs sure are a bunch of know-nothings, aren't you?

The thing is that C has it's place, but it's certainly not every place. If
you were to tell me that I should write business solutions using C, I'd
have to ask what you were smoking.

Now, at last, a glimmer of sense. C isn't for everything, of course. Even
C++ isn't for everything. You probably want, say, Visual COBOL.

(I'm a C++ fanboy, by the way.)


For me it depends on how recently I used it. Memory has a way of fading
the frustration ;D

Odd. I found C to be a breath of fresh air after having to endure the
limitations of the old-style Pascal. I've found C++ to be a renewed breath
of fresh air, with some incredible support libraries, whether open source or
closed source.

I'm not tied to one company's view of what a language should be.

At this stage in my career, C++ is easy.

I'm sure C# has some merit, but with C/C++ making it easy for me to code
cross-platform, I don't feel any compelling need to look at C#. I'll wait
until someone has a project that demands I use it.

Jul 21 '05 #24
Joe Cole wrote:
C# and Java are for those opportunist wimps (those who did not major in
CS or did a 3 month VB course in Brooklyn) who are just happy to jump on
to the Dot Com craze. They are the reason why the commercial software
industry is loaded with inefficient bad code. I have more respect for
COBOL programmer than this bunch of gold-diggers. They would be the one
to jump ship if Microsoft or Sun comes up with the next-big-heap-of-junk.
That's my sentiments exactly!

Most IT processing could be done with greater speed and efficiency and
use far less money and resources if it were done with efficient c code.

Linønut wrote:
Sean Hederman poked his little head through the XP firewall and said:

"Linønut" <"=?iso-8859-1?Q?lin=F8nut?= "@bone.com> wrote in message
news:vc******** ************@co mcast.com...
[Snip]

The Linux kernel is nothing but C, for example. Bare gtk+ is
nothing but
C. Yet, from this apparently barren ground, you get a sea of software.
Yes but the Linux kernel is also based on a 40-year old architecture,
so I
suppose writing it in a 33-year old programming language makes a certain
sick kind of sense...


You MVPs sure are a bunch of know-nothings, aren't you?

The thing is that C has it's place, but it's certainly not every
place. If
you were to tell me that I should write business solutions using C, I'd
have to ask what you were smoking.


Now, at last, a glimmer of sense. C isn't for everything, of course.
Even
C++ isn't for everything. You probably want, say, Visual COBOL.

(I'm a C++ fanboy, by the way.)
For me it depends on how recently I used it. Memory has a way of fading
the frustration ;D


Odd. I found C to be a breath of fresh air after having to endure the
limitations of the old-style Pascal. I've found C++ to be a renewed
breath
of fresh air, with some incredible support libraries, whether open
source or
closed source.

I'm not tied to one company's view of what a language should be.

At this stage in my career, C++ is easy.

I'm sure C# has some merit, but with C/C++ making it easy for me to code
cross-platform, I don't feel any compelling need to look at C#. I'll
wait
until someone has a project that demands I use it.

Jul 21 '05 #25
In article <MY************ ********@comcas t.com>, Linønut wrote:
Tom Shelton poked his little head through the XP firewall and said:
Hmm... C# allows you do direct memory manipulation (a.k.a pointers).
There are definately places where you wouldn't want to use C#, for
example device drivers, but for most line of buisness applications C# is
a much more superior choice.
That would be extremely difficult to prove.


3 Words - Time To Market.
If I ever have to get some
significant experience with C#, I'll get back to you with my feelings on it.


Ok - but I doubt you ever will...

By the way, lets play name that language - what language was the
following code block written in (borrowed from MSDN):

public void MakeGreyUnsafeF aster ()
{
Point size = PixelSize;
LockBitmap();

for (int y = 0; y < size.Y; y++)
{
PixelData* pPixel = PixelAt(0, y);
for (int x = 0; x < size.X; x++)
{
byte value =
(byte) ((pPixel->red + pPixel->green + pPixel->blue) / 3);
pPixel->red = value;
pPixel->green = value;
pPixel->blue = value;
pPixel++;
}
}
UnlockBitmap();
}

Yep - that's C#. And what the! It's using pointers!

--
Tom Shelton
Jul 21 '05 #26
Didn't know there was that much difference.
Thanks for the info. Was going to study C, but now I'll go to C#.
S Barringer

Jul 21 '05 #27
Top-posting sig-quoting, "Bob Powell [MVP]"
<bob@_spamkille r_bobpowell.net > wrote:
Thats a good idea. Learn C and make sure that you keep on using 20 year old
technologies.
C is over 30 years old. It's Microsoft's versions of Windows that are
20 years old.
The job-market is too full anyway.


Instead of a dime a dozen, we'll be able to purchase MVPs for 8 or 9
cents a dozen! They're still overpriced.
Jul 21 '05 #28
On Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:50:27 +0200, "Sean Hederman"
<em*******@codi ngsanity.blogsp ot.com> wrote in message
<<d3**********@ ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> >:
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527>

The thing is that C has it's place, but it's certainly not every place. If
you were to tell me that I should write business solutions using C, I'd have
to ask what you were smoking.


The thing is that nnybody, except those who are sick, will take
technical advice from an Outlook Express user. The thing is that OE
has no place, and certainly no place at all. I have to ask what you
are drinking.
Jul 21 '05 #29
"Joe Cole" <jo**@nyc.rr.co m> wrote in message
news:42******** **************@ unlimited.newsh osting.com...
C# and Java are for those opportunist wimps (those who did not major in CS
or did a 3 month VB course in Brooklyn)
Actually, I did major in CS.
who are just happy to jump on to the Dot Com craze.
I thought the Dot Com craze was a joke, no sound business model. Similar to
why I'm leery of OSS, I just don't grok the long-term business model. I am
however intellectually honest enough to admit that I might be wrong.
They are the reason why the commercial software industry is loaded with
inefficient bad code.
A bad programmer is bad no matter what tool they use. Getting all high and
mighty based on the fact that you use a specific language makes as much
sense as saying that you're brighter than Tsiolovsky because you can speak
English.
I have more respect for COBOL programmer than this bunch of gold-diggers.
They would be the one to jump ship if Microsoft or Sun comes up with the
next-big-heap-of-junk.
Damn right I would! I use the best tool for the job, and don't get tied into
some religious close-minded denial of all other possibilities. Somebody
comes out with a tool that lets me write the programs my customers want and
that's better than my current tools, of course I'd switch. I'd be an idiot
not to.

Here's a hint, sticking with a constant strategy despite changing conditions
is bad idea in nature, in life, and in programming.
Linønut wrote:
Sean Hederman poked his little head through the XP firewall and said:

"Linønut" <"=?iso-8859-1?Q?lin=F8nut?= "@bone.com> wrote in message
news:vc***** *************** @comcast.com...
[Snip]


The Linux kernel is nothing but C, for example. Bare gtk+ is nothing
but
C. Yet, from this apparently barren ground, you get a sea of software.

Yes but the Linux kernel is also based on a 40-year old architecture, so
I
suppose writing it in a 33-year old programming language makes a certain
sick kind of sense...

You MVPs sure are a bunch of know-nothings, aren't you?

The thing is that C has it's place, but it's certainly not every place.
If
you were to tell me that I should write business solutions using C, I'd
have to ask what you were smoking.

Now, at last, a glimmer of sense. C isn't for everything, of course.
Even
C++ isn't for everything. You probably want, say, Visual COBOL.

(I'm a C++ fanboy, by the way.)

For me it depends on how recently I used it. Memory has a way of fading
the frustration ;D

Odd. I found C to be a breath of fresh air after having to endure the
limitations of the old-style Pascal. I've found C++ to be a renewed
breath
of fresh air, with some incredible support libraries, whether open source
or
closed source.

I'm not tied to one company's view of what a language should be.

At this stage in my career, C++ is easy.

I'm sure C# has some merit, but with C/C++ making it easy for me to code
cross-platform, I don't feel any compelling need to look at C#. I'll
wait
until someone has a project that demands I use it.

Jul 21 '05 #30

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