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In need of .NET advocacy

Hello people,

The following is not a troll but a serious request.

I found myself in a position where I have to present a Pro/Con list to management and architects in our company with regard to developing new products (specifically - desktop products) in C#/.NET instead of the usual C++/COM that we do.

Since I am not an experienced .NET developer by any definition, I don't have a good grip on the "Pro" part.

The argument that I hear most extols the virtues of the garbage collection in .NET.
Frankly, I am not really convinced by it myself because I started since consistently using smart pointers and RAII, I did not have to worry about deallocations. I also feel that the lack of deterministic destructors is a big drawback that makes managing non-memory resources cumbersome.

Therefore I ask the community to provide me with reasons that could persuade me, and the people I will present them to, that switching would be beneficial to the company (they would be mostly interested in lowering risks, increasing productivity and saving money).

Both links and prose are welcome.
Best regards,
Alex.
--
Please replace myrealbox with alexoren to reply by email.

Jul 21 '05
55 3937
Cor,

Whew! Thanks, I really appreciate the compliment.

BTW, my email address can be found here:
http://www.codingsanity.com/email.jpg.

Sean

"Cor Ligthert" <no************ @planet.nl> wrote in message
news:eB******** *****@TK2MSFTNG P10.phx.gbl...
Sean,

Very nice post. I find this one of the best on this ever asked
question.with the exception from that not expliciet question to respond to
your mail address, let us all benefit from this kind of discussions.
(Although in my opinion there is not much to ask anymore when we see your
message).

:-)

Cor

Jul 21 '05 #11
And what about Fortran? According to the following references, Fortran was
born well before Algol:
http://www.math.grin.edu/~rebelsky/C...utline.02.html
http://www.scriptol.org/dates.htm

S. L.

"Cor Ligthert" <no************ @planet.nl> wrote in message
news:uu******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP15.phx.gbl...
Patrick,
At least if you build something
with C++, you know that you'll always be able to compile it and always
be able to find support.

In a kind of same way is this said in past from the universal language
Algol as well.

Beside Cobol are there not much program languages with a longer lifetime
than 30 years.

Cor

Jul 21 '05 #12
"Patrick A" <pw*******@gmai l.com> wrote in message
news:11******** **************@ z14g2000cwz.goo glegroups.com.. .
Except when M$ drops support for .Net, like they are doing with VB6,
you'll be screwed, just like the millions of people/companies that have
invested billions in building VB apps.
And who didn't bother using the great Upgrade Wizard provided with .NET.
Also, note that when VB6 support ends, you'll still be able to write VB6
apps and sell them, and they'll work. MS just won't be providing free tech
support on it.
You'll have to either migrate
your code to the next great M$ platform or else just try to plod on
with no support or upgrades from M$. At least if you build something
with C++, you know that you'll always be able to compile it and always
be able to find support.


By this logic we shouldn't buy anything. Where do you think I can get free
support for my Nokia 2110? Or my parents Datsun 1200 (1980's model)? How
about getting support for my Betamax video player, or my LP record player?
The fact is that you can still get support for those things, it'll just cost
you more. VB6 is the same.

Keep in mind that VB6 was about providing RAD to developers, and .NET
continues that tradition. I'll say that I believe I'd spend less time
writing an app in VB6, and then rewriting it in VB.NET from the ground up
than I would writing it in C++ once. So, a longer term language but at the
cost of productivity and profits. I'm not in that sector of the industry
where solutions have to last 10+years, so for me, C++ makes no sense.
Jul 21 '05 #13
> Except when M$ drops support for .Net, like they are doing with VB6,
you'll be screwed, just like the millions of people/companies that have
invested billions in building VB apps. You'll have to either migrate
your code to the next great M$ platform or else just try to plod on
with no support or upgrades from M$. At least if you build something
with C++, you know that you'll always be able to compile it and always
be able to find support.

If you think like that, then we would probably still be stuck with Windows
3.1 now and no Internet.
Programming languages must evolve since the programs they must create
becomes more and more complex.
Using managed C++ using .NET framework I gain a 3 fold speed of development,
while creating more secure code an far more user friendly.

I realize that the VB6 people have a hard time since it is a step backwards
in functionality, but the Visual studio 2005 coming out in de summer, will
have a much better solution and ease of use for VB programmers. You will
still have a transition, but it will become much easier.

Regarding support and experience, since .NET programs look alike in any
programming language except for small syntax differencs, you will gain a lot
more experience from other developers that program in different languages.
The only limiting factor would be the none-case sensitivity, but if C# and
C++ programmers write .NET assemblies (dll's similar like OCX) you simply
can use them if you want. So your search for usefull components increases
treefold with the components designed for the managed C++ and C# + your
normal VB.NET components .

See many advantages over VB 6, it is really worth the transition!

--
http://www.skyscan.be
Jul 21 '05 #14
no one is stopping you from sticking with VB6. Support is still there...
it's just not free. There's a BIG difference.

Those C++ language compilers you are comparing with... will you be paying
for support there too?

I was once a Luddite too, but no more. Sometimes progress really is better.

--
--- Nick Malik [Microsoft]
MCSD, CFPS, Certified Scrummaster
http://blogs.msdn.com/nickmalik

Disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this forum are my own, and not
representative of my employer.
I do not answer questions on behalf of my employer. I'm just a
programmer helping programmers.
--
"Patrick A" <pw*******@gmai l.com> wrote in message
news:11******** **************@ z14g2000cwz.goo glegroups.com.. .
Except when M$ drops support for .Net, like they are doing with VB6,
you'll be screwed, just like the millions of people/companies that have
invested billions in building VB apps. You'll have to either migrate
your code to the next great M$ platform or else just try to plod on
with no support or upgrades from M$. At least if you build something
with C++, you know that you'll always be able to compile it and always
be able to find support.

Jul 21 '05 #15
Thank you very much for your replies, they (especially Sean's Olaf's and Nick's) were very informative!

First, a minor nit picking:

Sean Hederman> There is a pattern called IDisposable that allows you your deterministic clean-up.

Not really, as it depends on the user of the object to manually call Dispose() at the appropriate time.
I had this problem with Java and it is the same in C#.
I hope that C++/CLI would solve it in an elegant way (i.e., allowing destructors in managed objects).
Now, to the bulk of the answers.

The comments mentioned several advantages:

1) Productivity increase.

Is it possible to get some "official" data from a company?
It is one thing to say "Joe Sixpack claimed on m.p.d.g that he experienced a productivity increase of 64.7% since switching to .NET" and quite a different thing to point people to the site of a commercial (preferably well known) company stating the same.

Also, it would be interesting to break down the productivity increase.
Did the savings come from an easier transformation of the design to code? Faster coding? Less bugs to fix? More efficient tracking of the said bugs? More understandable code? Something else? Did all activities (analysis/design, coding, QA, refactoring, support) benefit equally?

2) Security.

Again, real-world examples will be appreciated.

3) Portability and interoperabilit y.

I don't see any advantage over using C++ with platform-independent library (like Qt, ACE, WxWidgets, etc.)

4) "Future".

Not really an issue in this particular case because future platforms will still support COM and native execution.
As somebody mentioned, the availability of newer Maximas did not cause older Datsuns to stop working.

5) Framework.

Can anyone comment what parts of the framework proved to be "lifesavers " compare to the "old way"?

6) RAD features.

MFC had them, no?

7) Programmer availability.

I guess that if a lot of VB6 coders are "forced" to switch to VB.NET then the market of .NET developers will get a big boost.
However, no offence intended but VB6 did little to promote good programming practices and a good number of VB6 coders should not be let anywhere near a product.

My own (admittedly biased) perception is that top developers would achieve better results given the power and flexibility of C++ but the average developer will do better with managed code.

8) Stuff that nobody commented on (yet)

Reflection, 3rd party tools (NUnit, etc.), ...
Best regards,
Alex.
--
Please replace myrealbox with alexoren to reply by email.

Jul 21 '05 #16
Alex,

With all those good answers in this threads, which answers that are in my
opinion more than you could expect from a newsgroup. I can only get this
opinion. This starting message in your question is false.
The following is not a troll but a serious request.


Just my thought,

Cor
Jul 21 '05 #17
>Now, to the bulk of the answers.
Very tough questions now, you want proof. ;-)
I can only give you the programers point of view.
1) Productivity increase.
I cannot give real data, but look at it this way:
Currently I am still forced to use unmanaged C++ because users have still
the big scare to install the .NET framework.
But I can speed up the unmanaged C++ cycle by creating prototype C# programs
to test out ideas and functionality because the C# compiler is lightning
fast.
This way I know the pitfalls that I will encounter, I can use NUnit for
tesing stuff and then I port that C# code to C++ and still have more time
left than I would have created the program in unmanaged C++ directly. I had
to find a good way to emulate delegates/events and use properties in
unmanaged C++, but now the C++ programs are equivalent of the .NET way of
doing. Also the C++ programs are actually a stripped down version of the C#
programs that have far more functionality otherwise I would never reach a
delivery date. But at least the C++ programs are ready to be extended for
the future.
2) Security.
Again, real-world examples will be appreciated.

If you go to http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/keyword/
Here you fins all known bugs of almost anything software related.
APS.NET uses the .NET frameowrd, ASP uses the old ways.

Use keyword "asp.net" (.NET way) and I get 5 bug reports:

16-02-2005: Microsoft ASP.NET Unicode Character Conversion Multiple
Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities
06-10-2004: Microsoft ASP.NET URI Canonicalizatio n Unauthorized Web Access
Vulnerability
06-05-2004: Microsoft ASP.NET Malformed HTTP Request Information Disclosure
Vulnerability
08-09-2003: Microsoft ASP.NET Request Validation Null Byte Filter Bypass
Vulnerability
06-06-2002: Microsoft ASP.NET StateServer Cookie Handling Buffer Overflow
Vulnerability

Use the keyword "ASP" (none .NET way) and you get a zillion of bugs.
6) RAD features.

MFC had them, no?
Not really, it was a first trial to make it RAD, but they failed miserably
because the MFC classes are created in the none-Object way of thinking.
It was nothing more that a set of classes that acts as wrapper around
windows functions. You had a very hard time to extend and reuse the objects.
The framework was built in the wrong way.

Another thing about MFC is that every class behaves differently. So many
execptions in how to use dialog box controls that are in a lot of cases not
compatible with each other.
Which is perfectly normal because since MFC is a set of class wrappers
around Windows and Windows have been extended with all different new
technologies.

Creating a user interface is an adventure on it's own.
Look at the differences in using menu items and popup menu's. Completely
different ways of implementing.

At the same time, Delphi came out with the pure Object oriented way of
thinking. This was in 1995 or something like that.
Every component have almost the same properties with predictable names. If
you understand one control, then you probably understood the other control
too.

Maybe it is of no suprise but the guy that developed the Delphi framework,
happens to be the same guy that was in the design phase of the .NET.
I don't know the details about this, but it is striking how close Delphi and
..NET are related.

Look I don't say that MFC is really that bad, it was a good idea in those
times to implement it like that, but the Delphi/.NET way appears to be the
better choice since it is designed from scratch in such a way that is can be
extended. It looks like that MFC is designed to have the highest performance
in speed while the .NET way is to the easiest way of extending and creating
programs.
7) Programmer availability.

I guess that if a lot of VB6 coders are "forced" to switch to VB.NET then the market of .NET developers will get a big boost.However, no offence intended but VB6 did little to promote good programming practices and a good number of VB6 coders should not be let anywhere near a product.
This is a something that I do not wish to discuss. ;-)
But the hord of VB.NET programmers will somehow make the users install the
..NET framework which is very good news. :-)
My own (admittedly biased) perception is that top developers would achieve better results given the powerand flexibility of C++ but the average developer will do better with managed code. I have to agree on that. But to programmers are expensive and in short
supply.
And what do you do when they leave the company or maybe get sick? Who is
able to take over that code?
Top programmers tend to create unreadable code for other developers. Mostly
because they use techniques that the common people have no clue of what they
are doing.
8) Stuff that nobody commented on (yet)

Reflection, 3rd party tools (NUnit, etc.), ...

I love NUnit!!
Testing code have never been so easy when you starts to have a huge library
and you must change something in that library you can test very fast if it
breaks something else.

Another issuse, if you program in C# and have a syntax error, then your
incorrect code gets underlined, so you can find the problems faster. Also
you maybe get a few errors while C++ tends zo give you a kazilion errors all
trying to point you in the wrong direction.
In my opinion choosing for the .NET or not is like a action of faith. Only
history will tell if it was a good choice or not.
But right now I personally would gamble on .NET.

--
http://www.skyscan.be
Jul 21 '05 #18
Hi Alex,
Thank you very much for your replies, they (especially Sean's Olaf's and
Nick's) were very informative!<<
Glad to be of help
1) Productivity increase.<<
Developers have been arguing about how to measure developer productivity for
years. If you notice from my signature, I am a CFPS. That is a Certified
Function Point Specialist. In other words, I am trained and certified
measure developer productivitiy. Most of my data is private and
proprietary. I can tell you this: when translating from function points to
estimates, we use "normalized " numbers to determine the expected
productivity of a developer against a particular feature set. We are very
happy with the productivity of C#. C++ is considered one of the "average"
languages. These are not guesses. They are measurements. (And no, I
cannot share the numbers). You can get public numbers from
http://www.spr.com
Did the savings come from an easier transformation of the design to code?
Faster coding? Less bugs to fix? More efficient tracking of the said
bugs? More understandable code? Something else? Did all activities
(analysis/design, coding, QA, refactoring, support) benefit equally?<<
The reasons "why" vary from person to person, mostly because each person
finds a different reason for the productivity gains of .Net. Besides, why
do you care? If its more productive, its more productive. It's a little
like asking "Why does Broccoli taste better than Asparagus?" You'll get an
argument and no answers. Note that 2.0 (Whidbey) adds a LOT of useful
features, including a unit testing framework very similar to NUnit.

2) Security.

There have only been a handful of security issues reported against .NET, and
all have been fixed in current service packs. Not so for COM over the
years. . (Public info was provided by another poster).

3) Portability and interoperabilit y.

I never raised this as an advantage of .Net. I simply stated the error of
using this as a cost factor over .Net because it is not cheaper to use a
different compiler (with paid support or no support).

4) "Future".
Not really an issue in this particular case because future platforms will
still support COM and native execution.<<
I thought you were pulling this stuff together for managers and executives.
Now I'm beginning to wonder. Is Cor right?

"Future of the language" affects the availability of developers. These
issues are CLOSELY tied together.

If your company is doing custom software development, even just for internal
apps, this matters a LOT. Ask all those organizations stuck with miles of
Powerbuilder code and no developers around to maintain it, and no way to add
the new features that the business wants, or change the business rules to
keep up with changes in law, policy, or business practices. This is an
EXPENSIVE place to be.

I know of a government agency with a mission critical app written in
SmallTalk, and no way to extend it. It's a nice app, but they needed
integration features, and SmallTalk doesn't give you anything "out of the
box" like .Net (and even VB6) does. Their last remaining SmallTalk
developer doesn't understand integration.

This story is repeated in thousands of companies and agencies, with systems
written in dozens of languages. With the aging of the COBOL population,
this fate will soon befall the estimated billions of lines of COBOL code. I
used to support an app in Simula. Talk about "hard to fix!" Simula is a
wonderful language that no one remembers. I even added one to the pile:
many years ago, I wrote a very useful app for Linguistics research... in
SNOBOL. I dare you to find a professional SNOBOL programmer, for any price.

Availability of developers matters. Over time, it will matter to C++. The
trend has already started, and historically, this trend is a freight train
that cannot be stopped.

5) Framework.
Can anyone comment what parts of the framework proved to be "lifesavers "
compare to the "old way"?<<
All of it. The structure of the framework is totally different than a set
of wrapper classes around a set of wrapper classes around an API. (COM on
MFC on Win32). You can do things in 20 lines of code in C# that would
require hundreds in C++, and that story is repeated many times.

Are you familiar with Design Patterns? If not, read this to get you
started: http://blogs.msdn.com/nickmalik/arch...21/328727.aspx

6) RAD features.MFC had them, no?<< You are kidding, right?
7) Programmer availability.
I guess that if a lot of VB6 coders are "forced" to switch to VB.NET then
the market of .NET developers will get a big boost.<< Now, you are being prejudiced. I know many excellent programmers in the VB
ranks, and some pretty lousy ones in the C++ ranks.
My own (admittedly biased) perception is that top developers would achieve
better results given the power and flexibility of C++ but the average
developer will do better with managed code.<<
Your statement is naieve. *All* developers will achieve better results
using C# over unmanaged code because you can focus on the business problem
and not the details of the technology. Also, _your_ projects will have
average developers on them, if not now, then later during maintenance. This
is a fact of life. Average developers outnumber top developers about 20 to
1 in my experience.

No one creates an IDE for top developers, or a language, or a framework.
These tools are there for average developers to increase their productivity
because a 1% increase in productivity applied to 95% of the workforce is far
better for overall cost savings than a 25% increase applied to 5% of the
workforce. Company executives get this, and if you want to be able to speak
with them with a coherent message, you need to learn it too.
Reflection, 3rd party tools (NUnit, etc.), ...<<


I commented on third party tools and open source platforms in my previous
post.

I've seen many postings from Java users who were impressed with the
Reflection capabilities of .Net. Personally, I think that reflection is
probably a tad bit over-discussed because it is a 'cool' feature, but for
those applications where it is the right answer (quite a few, actually), it
is absolutely mission-critical, and this capability simply wasn't available
in C++.
--
--- Nick Malik [Microsoft]
MCSD, CFPS, Certified Scrummaster
http://blogs.msdn.com/nickmalik

Disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this forum are my own, and not
representative of my employer.
I do not answer questions on behalf of my employer. I'm just a
programmer helping programmers.


Jul 21 '05 #19
"Alex" <re******@myrea lbox.com> wrote in message
news:3b******** *****@individua l.net...
Thank you very much for your replies, they (especially Sean's Olaf's and
Nick's) were very informative!

First, a minor nit picking:

Sean Hederman> There is a pattern called IDisposable that allows you your
deterministic clean-up.

Not really, as it depends on the user of the object to manually call
Dispose() at the appropriate time.
I had this problem with Java and it is the same in C#.
Whether it's manually called or not does not impact it's determinism. A
naked pointer in C++ has deterministic clean-up, but you have to call delete
to get it. If you want smart pointer equivalence, wrap the reference in a
using block.
I hope that C++/CLI would solve it in an elegant way (i.e., allowing
destructors in managed objects).
It does. C++/CLI supports deterministic cleanup via ~ClassName.
Now, to the bulk of the answers.

The comments mentioned several advantages:

1) Productivity increase.

Is it possible to get some "official" data from a company?
It is one thing to say "Joe Sixpack claimed on m.p.d.g that he experienced
a productivity increase of 64.7% since switching to .NET" and quite a
different thing to point people to the site of a commercial (preferably
well known) company stating the same.
Does Microsoft count? ;-)
Also, it would be interesting to break down the productivity increase.
Did the savings come from an easier transformation of the design to code?
Yes, much easier.
Faster coding?
The tools help you with coding if that's what you mean. Also C++ to C# meant
a cleaner syntax with less gotchas and ambiguities.
Less bugs to fix?
Yep. No swallowed error conditions via unchecked HRESULT's. No dangling
pointers, no buffer overruns, no memory leaks.
More efficient tracking of the said bugs?
Nope. Generally one uses third-party tools for that.
More understandable code?
Yes, C# is much easier to read than C++.
Something else?
One coherent set of libraries.
Did all activities (analysis/design, coding, QA, refactoring, support)
benefit equally?
No, Id say coding was helped the most by the tool, and the Framework also
assisted A&D, coding and QA a bit.
2) Security.
Again, real-world examples will be appreciated.
Code Access Security and no buffer overruns are the biggies here.
3) Portability and interoperabilit y.
I don't see any advantage over using C++ with platform-independent library
(like Qt, ACE, WxWidgets, etc.)
Read the posts. Sure, you can do it in C++, but C++ is a pain to develop for
in comparison.
4) "Future".

Not really an issue in this particular case because future platforms will
still support COM and native execution.
As somebody mentioned, the availability of newer Maximas did not cause
older Datsuns to stop working.
No, but do you really *want* to drive an old Datsun?
5) Framework.
Can anyone comment what parts of the framework proved to be "lifesavers "
compare to the "old way"?
Reflection, unified type system, single string class (happiness), Remoting.
6) RAD features.
MFC had them, no?
No. I suggest you write a simple MFC windows app, and then do the same in
Windows Forms. Chalk and cheese.
7) Programmer availability.
I guess that if a lot of VB6 coders are "forced" to switch to VB.NET then
the market of .NET developers will get a big boost.
However, no offence intended but VB6 did little to promote good programming
practices and a good number of VB6 coders should not be let anywhere near a
product.

Agreed, but then I also believe that large numbers of C++ coders should be
similarly constrained. Also, you seem to be suffering from a fairly common
misapprehension that .NET is basically C# & VB.NET. You can also code .NET
using
C++, either ANSI C++ (using Managed C++ Extensions), or the much easier to
read C++/CLI.
My own (admittedly biased) perception is that top developers would achieve
better results given the power and flexibility of C++ but the average
developer will >do better with managed code.
Disagree completely:
http://codingsanity.blogspot.com/200...about-net.html. I
love this attitude by dyed-in-the-wool C++ devs that C++ is somehow "better"
than other languages. It's not. It's just a language. It does some things
better, and some things worse than other languages. I don't understand how
you can come up with the idea that top developers won't achieve better
results by using better tools. For writing most applications today, .NET is
a far better tool than most C++ implementations . In the few areas where it's
not, fine use C++. Premature optimization is a mistake no matter what the
context, and developing 100% in C++ because of the 1% (or less) where you
really need it is a clear case of premature optimization.

Alex, I'm struggling to understand something. You asked for pro/cons to
persuade others and then flat out admitted that you're biased against what
you're supposedly championing. Your statements appear designed to assert
that C++ is better than .NET/C#. I'm struggling to reconcile this with your
assertion that you're not a troll, and it seems I'm not alone.
8) Stuff that nobody commented on (yet)
Reflection, 3rd party tools (NUnit, etc.), ...
Best regards,
Alex.
--
Please replace myrealbox with alexoren to reply by email.


Jul 21 '05 #20

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ONU (Optical Network Unit) is one of the key components for providing high-speed Internet services. Its primary function is to act as an endpoint device located at the user's premises. However, people are often confused as to whether an ONU can Work As a Router. In this blog post, weíll explore What is ONU, What Is Router, ONU & Routerís main usage, and What is the difference between ONU and Router. Letís take a closer look ! Part I. Meaning of...
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8761
by: Hystou | last post by:
Most computers default to English, but sometimes we require a different language, especially when relocating. Forgot to request a specific language before your computer shipped? No problem! You can effortlessly switch the default language on Windows 10 without reinstalling. I'll walk you through it. First, let's disable language synchronization. With a Microsoft account, language settings sync across devices. To prevent any complications,...
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Oralloy
by: Oralloy | last post by:
Hello folks, I am unable to find appropriate documentation on the type promotion of bit-fields when using the generalised comparison operator "<=>". The problem is that using the GNU compilers, it seems that the internal comparison operator "<=>" tries to promote arguments from unsigned to signed. This is as boiled down as I can make it. Here is my compilation command: g++-12 -std=c++20 -Wnarrowing bit_field.cpp Here is the code in...
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9280
jinu1996
by: jinu1996 | last post by:
In today's digital age, having a compelling online presence is paramount for businesses aiming to thrive in a competitive landscape. At the heart of this digital strategy lies an intricately woven tapestry of website design and digital marketing. It's not merely about having a website; it's about crafting an immersive digital experience that captivates audiences and drives business growth. The Art of Business Website Design Your website is...
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9200
by: Hystou | last post by:
Overview: Windows 11 and 10 have less user interface control over operating system update behaviour than previous versions of Windows. In Windows 11 and 10, there is no way to turn off the Windows Update option using the Control Panel or Settings app; it automatically checks for updates and installs any it finds, whether you like it or not. For most users, this new feature is actually very convenient. If you want to control the update process,...
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tracyyun
by: tracyyun | last post by:
Dear forum friends, With the development of smart home technology, a variety of wireless communication protocols have appeared on the market, such as Zigbee, Z-Wave, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, etc. Each protocol has its own unique characteristics and advantages, but as a user who is planning to build a smart home system, I am a bit confused by the choice of these technologies. I'm particularly interested in Zigbee because I've heard it does some...
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6016
by: conductexam | last post by:
I have .net C# application in which I am extracting data from word file and save it in database particularly. To store word all data as it is I am converting the whole word file firstly in HTML and then checking html paragraph one by one. At the time of converting from word file to html my equations which are in the word document file was convert into image. Globals.ThisAddIn.Application.ActiveDocument.Select();...
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muto222
by: muto222 | last post by:
How can i add a mobile payment intergratation into php mysql website.
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bsmnconsultancy
by: bsmnconsultancy | last post by:
In today's digital era, a well-designed website is crucial for businesses looking to succeed. Whether you're a small business owner or a large corporation in Toronto, having a strong online presence can significantly impact your brand's success. BSMN Consultancy, a leader in Website Development in Toronto offers valuable insights into creating effective websites that not only look great but also perform exceptionally well. In this comprehensive...

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