446,376 Members | 1,566 Online
Need help? Post your question and get tips & solutions from a community of 446,376 IT Pros & Developers. It's quick & easy.

math problem

 P: n/a Hey, Expression: Math.floor(x * 100) / 100 x= 4.1 gives 4.09, why in gods name? While other values for x don't give a problem. Thx in advance Chiwa Jul 20 '05 #1
40 Replies

 P: n/a : Expression: : Math.floor(x * 100) / 100 : : x= 4.1 gives 4.09, why in gods name? Because browsers are not calculators (here = sign is "can be"). 4.1 = 4.100000000000 = 4.099999999999 = 4.100000000001 So: 4.1*100 = 410.0000000000 = 409.9999999999 So: Math.floor(x * 100) = 410 = 409 And so your answer can be 409. How more devisions, multiplications and roundings the bigger the margin to the exact calculation may grow. : While other values for x don't give a problem. No, you just did not find them ;-) Wouter Jul 20 '05 #2

 P: n/a : Expression: : Math.floor(x * 100) / 100 Try this: x.setPlaces(2); Wouter Jul 20 '05 #3

 P: n/a : Try this: : : x.setPlaces(2); See : http://www.mredkj.com/javascript/num...xample150.html Wouter Jul 20 '05 #4

 P: n/a DJ WIce wrote: : Try this: : : x.setPlaces(2); See : http://www.mredkj.com/javascript/num...xample150.html http://www.jibbering.com/faq/#FAQ4_7 Is a better reference for the OP -- Randy Chance Favors The Prepared Mind comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/ Jul 20 '05 #5

 P: n/a Chiwa wrote: Hey, Expression: Math.floor(x * 100) / 100 x= 4.1 gives 4.09, why in gods name? While other values for x don't give a problem. Thx in advance Chiwa Just so you know, this is not just a limitation of Javascript. Many other languages (C/C++ for instance) have this as an issue. That is because Real numbers (floating point numbers) are _ALWAYS_ approximations. When you do a measurement of your finger (for instance), and you measure exactly 1.25 inches... is that really correct? Or could it be 1.25000002343589 inches instead? Or 1.2500000034322349872342229? (You get the idea) For this reason (and others dealing with the complexity of floating point numbers), when a float (indescrete) is represented by binary data (descrete), you will have some goofiness... it is guaranteed. Because of this, most languages have methods for you to set the precision (the number of significant figures), where rounding will occur to the precision value you wish for. If you desire an exact floating point value, such as in something like money calculations, simply set your precisions. You can also work in values multiplied by (10*order)... For instance, \$10.47 can be worked with as integers... immagine 1,047 pennies :) You can convert it back by dividing or modding by (10*order) in integer form. I have had to use that method once when developing assembly code on an 8-bit processor. There was no float support, so I needed to work in values multiplied by (10*order), and then do some simple calculations to provide useful user information. Blah.... I wrote too much. Oh well, I hope it helps :) Brian Jul 20 '05 #6

 P: n/a "Chiwa" writes: Expression: Math.floor(x * 100) / 100 x= 4.1 gives 4.09, why in gods name? While other values for x don't give a problem. /L -- Lasse Reichstein Nielsen - lr*@hotpop.com DHTML Death Colors: 'Faith without judgement merely degrades the spirit divine.' Jul 20 '05 #7

 P: n/a On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 21:25:58 GMT, "Chiwa" wrote: Hey,Expression:Math.floor(x * 100) / 100x= 4.1 gives 4.09, why in gods name?While other values for x don't give a problem.Thx in advance After working on my order form code it appears that I noticed and solved this same problem long ago. What I do is to add 0.000001 to the value x before putting it through this same function, when this makes sure that the value is not below the true value before you run the calculation. Since this fraction is so small, then it would be rounded off anywhere, where you only have to watch out that your x value does not use this many decimal places. That of course is not a problem for money values, like what I use it for, with only two (or three with VAT) decimal places. There you go, perfect rounding results every time. Cardman http://www.cardman.com http://www.cardman.co.uk Jul 20 '05 #8

 P: n/a Cardman wrote: After working on my order form code it appears that I noticed and solved this same problem long ago. What I do is to add 0.000001 to the value x before putting it through this same function, when this makes sure that the value is not below the true value before you run the calculation. Since this fraction is so small, then it would be rounded off anywhere, where you only have to watch out that your x value does not use this many decimal places. That of course is not a problem for money values, like what I use it for, with only two (or three with VAT) decimal places. There you go, perfect rounding results every time. Cardman http://www.cardman.com http://www.cardman.co.uk You have got to be careful with a solution like this, since it is just a hack, and can be confusing to maintainers in the future. You should really use precision mechanisms built into the language to solve the problem more elegantly. Brian Jul 20 '05 #9

 P: n/a On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 19:48:00 +0000, Cardman wrote: That of course is not a problem for money values, like what I use itfor, with only two (or three with VAT) decimal places.There you go, perfect rounding results every time. however it is not a legal solution for calculating VAT involving Euros say. Do it properly. Jim. -- comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/ Jul 20 '05 #10

 P: n/a > Expression: Math.floor(x * 100) / 100 x= 4.1 gives 4.09, why in gods name? While other values for x don't give a problem. JavaScript Numbers are 64-bit floating point as specified in IEEE 754. It is the same representation that Java calls Double. The scheme is intended to preserve as much precision as possible, but it has some significant weakness. For example, it is not able to exactly represent common fractions such as 1/10 or 1/100. It can at best approximate them. As you can see, with a single operation you begin accumulating noticeable error. Also, be aware that the associative law and distributive law do not apply. I think floating point is the wrong representation for numbers in most applications. However, it is extremely popular, and popularity is much more important these days than suitability or reliability. I recommend that in applications that require exactness (for example, when working with money) scale your values by a suitable factor (such as 100) so that all of your arithmetic will be on whole numbers, which are exact. http://www.crockford.com Jul 20 '05 #11

 P: n/a : You have got to be careful with a solution like this, since it is just a : hack, and can be confusing to maintainers in the future. You should : really use precision mechanisms built into the language to solve the : problem more elegantly. I think this: adding 0.0000001 and then use setPlaces(2); will only be the solution when one want to have the code work in Netscape 4. Exept that browser, a value of 4.1 will become 4.10 when directly used setPlaces(2) (according to precious referred page). Wouter : : Brian : : : Jul 20 '05 #12

 P: n/a : I think this: : adding 0.0000001 and then use setPlaces(2); : will only be the solution .. Sorry correction: The input is x. Make it a string. Then get the lastIndexOf(".") that string. If it's -1 -> add ".000" If it's string length-2 -> add "00" If it's string length-1 -> add "000" If it's string length -> add "000" Now parceFloat and setPlaces(2). Wouter Jul 20 '05 #13

 P: n/a : Now parceFloat and setPlaces(2). parseFloat.. sorry Jul 20 '05 #14

 P: n/a On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 20:12:20 GMT, ji*@jibbering.com (Jim Ley) wrote: On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 19:48:00 +0000, Cardman wrote:That of course is not a problem for money values, like what I use itfor, with only two (or three with VAT) decimal places.There you go, perfect rounding results every time.however it is not a legal solution for calculating VAT involving Eurossay. Do it properly. Except that the value is in Sterling when that calculation is done, where it is only converted to Euros following this. Even had I used a different method, then the Sterling value before Euro conversion would still be exactly the same. As I said the value is too small to ever effect the total. Cardman http://www.cardman.com http://www.cardman.co.uk Jul 20 '05 #15

 P: n/a : Cardman : http://www.cardman.com Advice: remove the translation link for Dutch. The page becomes none readable; it uses old words and a word by word translation to the wrong words. Welcome must be "Welkom" Not welkomsgroet that can never be the first wordt in a line, so why it's even chosen.. it's a very rare used word. And that's only the first word. For all Dutch people the original page will be way better and faster readable. I think this holds for most Systran translations. Even the tekst on their own page uses incorrect chosen words and bad grammar. (The Dutch flag link on http://www.systransoft.com/ results in: http://w4.systranlinks.com/trans?sys...stransoft.com/ ) "Perfectioneer voor e-mail" should be: geoptimaliseerd voor e-mail or: perfectioneer uw e-mails And ".. vertaalsoftware voor de dagelijkse meertalige behoeften van kleine ondernemingen." should be "behoefte" instead of "behoeften" and so on. Just to let you know. Wouter Jul 20 '05 #16

 P: n/a On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 23:24:13 +0100, "DJ WIce" wrote: I feel that I should start this reply with "Hej". :-] Advice: remove the translation link for Dutch. Oh? The page becomes none readable; it uses old words and a word by wordtranslation to the wrong words.Welcome must be "Welkom"Not welkomsgroet that can never be the first wordt in a line, so why it'seven chosen.. it's a very rare used word.And that's only the first word. For all Dutch people the original page willbe way better and faster readable. Well the problem is that I know how terrible machine translations are, but in most cases it is better than nothing. My pages have way too much text and change too often to consider real translations. So if you don't like the translation, then stick to the original English version. I think this holds for most Systran translations. Yes... Still, for those people who do not know English, then they really are better than nothing, even if they manage only a crude translation. I have been doubtful of the Systran translations for a long time, where maybe I should consider removing them. Even the tekst on their own page uses incorrect chosen words and badgrammar.(The Dutch flag link on http://www.systransoft.com/ results in:http://w4.systranlinks.com/trans?sys...stransoft.com/)"Perfectioneer voor e-mail"should be: geoptimaliseerd voor e-mailor: perfectioneer uw e-mailsAnd".. vertaalsoftware voor de dagelijkse meertalige behoeften van kleineondernemingen."should be "behoefte" instead of "behoeften" and so on. I see. Just to let you know. The problem is that there is no solution to make it better, but at least Babblefish is not too bad. Shame that they do not support Dutch, but there you go. Cardman http://www.cardman.com http://www.cardman.co.uk Jul 20 '05 #17

 P: n/a : So if you don't like the translation, then stick to the original : English version. What I was trying to tell you is that everyone in the Netherlands can read and speak English at such level that your machone translation will never be better readable than the English version. At 10 Dutch people will start learning English and they must to that till they are at least 16. Or let me tell give you an other argument; One has to be very high educated to understand the translated page (very high is above Univercity level in Dutch). : Yes... Still, for those people who do not know English.. There are no Dutch people who don't know English. If a Dutch person can use internet he will be able to read Engish. (remember that hacked software is mostly in English, so it's a must for Dutch people to learn Engish - joke). Wouter Jul 20 '05 #18

 P: n/a On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 00:01:10 +0100, "DJ WIce" wrote: : So if you don't like the translation, then stick to the original: English version.What I was trying to tell you is that everyone in the Netherlands can readand speak English at such level that your machone translation will never bebetter readable than the English version. At 10 Dutch people will startlearning English and they must to that till they are at least 16. Then it is odd how my Atlas says that the languages used there are Dutch and Frisian. Still, it does not mention English for Sweden either, when I know from my visit to Gothenburg that like everyone there speaks English. I think that they are trying to ignore the truth. Or let me tell give you an other argument;One has to be very high educated to understand the translated page (veryhigh is above Univercity level in Dutch). Ok, I get your point. There are no Dutch people who don't know English. Did anyone ever tell you that English is spreading too far around the region? :-] I blame TV myself, with all that Hollywood programming, where they even have the nerve to subtitle instead of dub. They should have done like the Germans and banned the English language. ;-] If a Dutch person can use internet he will be able to read Engish. (remember that hacked software is mostly in English, so it's a must forDutch people to learn Engish - joke). Does the words "Canal Digitaal" feature anywhere in the joke? Yes I have been watching your local TV stations for years. Cardman http://www.cardman.com http://www.cardman.co.uk Jul 20 '05 #19

 P: n/a : >There are no Dutch people who don't know English. : : Did anyone ever tell you that English is spreading too far around the : region? :-] Most Dutch do also speak/understand German and have a 3 to 6 years education in Frensh. It's our custom to try to speak the language of the countries we visit for holidays. : subtitle instead of dub. I dislike dubbing, some commercials are in dub, then I always zap to an other channel (we "only" have 32). : Does the words "Canal Digitaal" feature anywhere in the joke? Only the analoge encoded channals are easy to decode without a licence/decode formula. For the digital channels we usually have a friend via the internet who knows the codes for each month (because he works there) :-0 Wouter Jul 20 '05 #20

 P: n/a >>What I was trying to tell you is that everyone in the Netherlands can readand speak English at such level that your machone translation will never bebetter readable than the English version. At 10 Dutch people will startlearning English and they must to that till they are at least 16. Well, Wouter, not everyone. For Internet purposes though your statement below is completely valid. Then it is odd how my Atlas says that the languages used there are Dutch and Frisian. That is officially. Dutch and Frisian (the latter locally) can be used by the government for communication. In Holland, either Turkish or Maroc (er, what's that ending?) will be the second language in frequency. I guess. Still, it does not mention English for Sweden either, when I know from my visit to Gothenburg that like everyone there speaks English. I think that they are trying to ignore the truth.Or let me tell give you an other argument;One has to be very high educated to understand the translated page (veryhigh is above Univercity level in Dutch). Agree; given only the 'dutch' version of the page, I think I still would have failed to understand what it is about--let alone get the details. In fact, to understand a bit of that version requires *quite a lot* more English knowledge than the English original! There are no Dutch people who don't know English. Know? My son doesn't know English. But then again, he's only 4. ~ ~ ~ Did anyone ever tell you that English is spreading too far around the region? :-] Have you ever tried to speak English with Asian people? You should! I blame TV myself, with all that Hollywood programming, where they even have the nerve to subtitle instead of dub. They should have done like the Germans and banned the English language. ;-] Yeah, and keep synchronized sound tracks. Yulck. If a Dutch person can use internet he will be able to read Engish.(remember that hacked software is mostly in English, so it's a must forDutch people to learn Engish - joke). You call that a joke? I call it a chore! Software translation happens, but most often it helps to know the original terms to understand what the comments are about. Let alone the fact that English often takes up less space on screen, so texts in Dutch get trunca someti. I happen to have quite some customers where I'd better not use any english word in my software (I happen to be a developer ;-) ) because they don't get it then! As a matter of fact, I think I can come up with quite a few people for whom English is not a real option. In the case of defending arguments (or on emotional subjects) I prefer to use a neutral language. English suits me perfectly except when the other party is a native speaker. You probably wouldn't want to take on me in Dutch, would you? Cardman http://www.cardman.com http://www.cardman.co.uk -- Bas Cost Budde http://www.heuveltop.nl/BasCB Jul 20 '05 #21

 P: n/a : : Now parceFloat and setPlaces(2). Oeps.. http://www.mredkj.com/javascript/num...mat.html#tryit Seems that I read about an inplemented script.. But well it's free, so you can use it. Wouter Jul 20 '05 #22

 P: n/a : >>There are no Dutch people who don't know English. : Know? My son doesn't know English. But then again, he's only 4. ~ ~ ~ I hope he will know a bit when he's 8 :-) But I think he probable already knows some words ("Yes","No","Hello" or a line or some from the telly). : Have you ever tried to speak English with Asian people? You should! LOL. Yeah, and on the same level: I wander why the TU does ask them to come here to study, but then forgets to teach them on what side of the road they shuld ride with their new bike. On daily bases I see foreign studends expose their selfs in dangerous situations, riding on the leftside of the road when a card rides on the right side in oposite direction.. or even other bikes.. : As a matter of fact, I think I can come up with quite a few people for : whom English is not a real option. Hmm, well the "Discard" button makes manny people wander. But that's mostly because WP5.1 was Dutch and so was their windows. I think that sometimes people might be afrait for not understanding the machine and then getting blackouts. I'm mostly visual geared so I even get arround configurating some asian windows version. I do also see that for older people (or other people who till now did not work with computers) it's hard to distinguish differant windows programs. They all look alike. But if you put a child age of 4 behind a computer he mostly finds more options and works with a mouse the way you would not expect within hours. : In the case of defending arguments (or on emotional subjects) I prefer : to use a neutral language. English suits me perfectly except when the : other party is a native speaker. Yeah, I think that's the way it should be. One can express himself best in their native language. : You probably wouldn't want to take on : me in Dutch, would you? Me? np :-) Wouter Jul 20 '05 #23

 P: n/a Cardman wrote in message news:. .. On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 00:01:10 +0100, "DJ WIce" wrote:: So if you don't like the translation, then stick to the original: English version.What I was trying to tell you is that everyone in the Netherlands can readand speak English at such level that your machone translation will never bebetter readable than the English version. At 10 Dutch people will startlearning English and they must to that till they are at least 16. Then it is odd how my Atlas says that the languages used there are Dutch and Frisian. Still, it does not mention English for Sweden either, when I know from my visit to Gothenburg that like everyone there speaks English. Sorry man, but the dutch translation is really horrible! No one will be able to grasp what your site is about! Wait, I'll re-translate the first line for you: YOU: Welcome to my new web-site, which I hope you will like. SYSTRAN: Welkomstgroet voor mijn opkomend zwemvlies- terrein, wie MIJ hoop u zal zoals. RETRANSLATED: Welcomegreetings for my nascending flipper- terrain, who ME hope you will likewise. Well, the manual that came with my Taiwanese microwave seems like the 'Kings English' compared to this. My advise: junk it and ask a friendly dutchman to translate your page for you! Cardman http://www.cardman.com http://www.cardman.co.uk Groetjes, Wiesje Jul 20 '05 #24

 P: n/a DJ WIce wrote: : >>There are no Dutch people who don't know English. : Know? My son doesn't know English. But then again, he's only 4. ~ ~ ~ I hope he will know a bit when he's 8 :-) But I think he probable already knows some words ("Yes","No","Hello" or a line or some from the telly). Possibly. He's already near fluent in Esperanto. : Have you ever tried to speak English with Asian people? You should! LOL. Yeah, and on the same level: I wander why the TU does ask them to come here to study, but then forgets to teach them on what side of the road they shuld ride with their new bike. On daily bases I see foreign studends expose their selfs in dangerous situations, riding on the leftside of the road when a card rides on the right side in oposite direction.. or even other bikes.. Why? Is one required to keep right with a bicycle ? :-) -- Bas Cost Budde http://www.heuveltop.nl/BasCB Jul 20 '05 #25

 P: n/a wiesje janssen wrote: Sorry man, but the dutch translation is really horrible! No one will be able to grasp what your site is about! Wait, I'll re-translate the first line for you: YOU: Welcome to my new web-site, which I hope you will like. SYSTRAN: Welkomstgroet voor mijn opkomend zwemvlies- terrein, wie MIJ hoop u zal zoals. RETRANSLATED: Welcomegreetings for my nascending flipper- terrain, who ME hope you will likewise. [hopes], even Well, the manual that came with my Taiwanese microwave seems like the 'Kings English' compared to this. My advise: junk it and ask a friendly dutchman to translate your page for you!Cardmanhttp://www.cardman.comhttp://www.cardman.co.uk Groetjes, Wiesje -- Bas Cost Budde http://www.heuveltop.nl/BasCB Jul 20 '05 #26

 P: n/a Hey, was that Send I hit? How come my hands have grown so big? :-) Well, the manual that came with my Taiwanese microwave seems like the 'Kings English' compared to this. My advise: junk it and ask a friendly dutchman to translate your page for you! I would. -- Bas Cost Budde http://www.heuveltop.nl/BasCB Jul 20 '05 #27

 P: n/a JRS: In article <40****************@news.cis.dfn.de>, seen in news:comp.lang.javascript, Jim Ley posted at Mon, 2 Feb 2004 20:12:20 :-On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 19:48:00 +0000, Cardman wrote:That of course is not a problem for money values, like what I use itfor, with only two (or three with VAT) decimal places.There you go, perfect rounding results every time.however it is not a legal solution for calculating VAT involving Eurossay. Do it properly. If you have URLs leading to Euro arithmetic rules, it might be worth putting one in the FAQ; and I'd be pleased to put some in . -- © John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ??*@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v4.00 MIME. © Web - w. FAQish topics, links, acronyms Dates - miscdate.htm Year 2000 - date2000.htm Critical Dates - critdate.htm Euro computing - eurocash.htm UK Y2k mini-FAQ: y2k_mfaq.txt Don't Mail News Jul 20 '05 #28

 P: n/a JRS: In article , seen in news:comp.lang.javascript, Cardman posted at Mon, 2 Feb 2004 19:48:00 :-On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 21:25:58 GMT, "Chiwa" wrote: Math.floor(x * 100) / 100 What I do is to add 0.000001 to the value x before putting it throughthis same function, when this makes sure that the value is not belowthe true value before you run the calculation.Since this fraction is so small, then it would be rounded offanywhere, where you only have to watch out that your x value does notuse this many decimal places. One fundamental error is that Math.floor is being used where Math.round is needed. Another is that there is almost no intrinsic need to round numbers to a multiple of 0.01; the need is to convert a Number to a String with two decimal places. Read the FAQ. -- © John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v4.00 IE 4 © Jim Ley's FAQ for news:comp.lang.javascript jscr maths, dates, sources. TP/BP/Delphi/jscr/&c, FAQ items, links. Jul 20 '05 #29

 P: n/a On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 13:00:02 +0100, Bas Cost Budde wrote: Hey, was that Send I hit? How come my hands have grown so big? :-) Well, the manual that came with my Taiwanese microwave seems like the 'Kings English' compared to this. My advise: junk it and ask a friendly dutchman to translate your page for you!I would. Then there is the other 77 pages... My best idea for having a multiple language site would be to remove as much information as possible, including minimum item information with no real description except the photo, then to have this very compacted site translated into many languages as possible. The only real problem is when adding new items, but you can just learn the phrase "No Information Available" in all the languages. Having my current site translated, even for free, is a crazy idea, when other languages cannot be maintained for any real time, despite such promises. Yes I could well get rid of the Systran options, but then there would go most of the flags as well. Maybe one day I may actually do that multi-language shopping site, when a photo based selection gallery in lots of languages is not too hard. The only issue is that customers like shopping in their own country, which is a difficult one to solve. In fact one of my rival suppliers already does a system like that, where he is a little too successful. Cardman http://www.cardman.com http://www.cardman.co.uk Jul 20 '05 #30

 P: n/a Cardman wrote: I would. Then there is the other 77 pages... My best idea for having a multiple language site would be to remove as much information as possible, including minimum item information with no real description except the photo, then to have this very compacted site translated into many languages as possible. The only real problem is when adding new items, but you can just learn the phrase "No Information Available" in all the languages. LOL Having my current site translated, even for free, is a crazy idea, when other languages cannot be maintained for any real time, despite such promises. True. Yet it happens that especially Dutch (or, to be honest, germanic languages in general) needs manual assistance. Keep Systran. Please do. Just checked the German version--it can be read. But for the Dutch version, how much time/patience have you got? The offer stands. Translating into Dutch is not as much a problem for me as translating into English ;-) -- Bas Cost Budde http://www.heuveltop.nl/BasCB Jul 20 '05 #31

 P: n/a You know what? Relieve some of the strain on the translation machines by using shorter sentences. (Sorry, that is a bad example). An example: "To begin with then if this is your first visit then odds are that you came here because someone you know recommended you to visit" this is bound to cause trouble. "Is this your first visit? Possibly your friend has recommended this site to you" has a little more universal structure. Maybe it is not your style of writing; but you won't develop a style of writing in 8000 languages, would you? -- Bas Cost Budde http://www.heuveltop.nl/BasCB Jul 20 '05 #32

 P: n/a On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 12:34:58 +0000, Dr John Stockton wrote: One fundamental error is that Math.floor is being used where Math.roundis needed. The calculation is being done for VAT. Customs & Excise rules state that how the VAT value is rounded is the choice of the VAT registered company, but the system used must always be constant. Since I believe in giving that 1p to my customers instead of tax man, then that is why the Math.floor function is used. Another is that there is almost no intrinsic need to round numbers to amultiple of 0.01; the need is to convert a Number to a String with twodecimal places. The need is to display the correct answer, where that is being done string or no string. It is quite interesting when you examine this problem at the bit level, but why the used a rubbish fuzzy number system in the first place is a good question. Cardman http://www.cardman.com http://www.cardman.co.uk Jul 20 '05 #33

 P: n/a On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 23:17:17 +0100, Bas Cost Budde wrote: You know what? Relieve some of the strain on the translation machines byusing shorter sentences. (Sorry, that is a bad example).An example:"To begin with then if this is your first visit then odds are that youcame here because someone you know recommended you to visit"this is bound to cause trouble."Is this your first visit? Possibly your friend has recommended thissite to you"has a little more universal structure. Maybe it is not your style ofwriting; but you won't develop a style of writing in 8000 languages,would you? It is a case that people with multiple language skills can better understand the language construct or grammar. Others of us are still working on the one we have. Since that text of mine seems a bit doggy these days, then something like "Should this be your first visit to this site, then the odds are that someone told you to visit" would be better. Yes I could go and rewrite my entire site and improve the text, but I work on a gradual improvement system. So when I am doing some large work on a page, then I can review all the text on that page. Over the last three and a half years that Welcome page first got wrote, then about two years ago it got improved. I have been feeling for a long time that it needs another improvement. Cardman http://www.cardman.com http://www.cardman.co.uk Jul 20 '05 #34

 P: n/a On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 22:59:58 +0100, Bas Cost Budde wrote: Cardman wrote: Having my current site translated, even for free, is a crazy idea, when other languages cannot be maintained for any real time, despite such promises.True. Yet it happens that especially Dutch (or, to be honest, germaniclanguages in general) needs manual assistance. Keep Systran. Please do. Now you like it? Just checked the German version--it can be read. That is good news then, but are you sure that was not the Babblefish version of the German language? But for the Dutch version, how much time/patience have you got? Theoffer stands. Translating into Dutch is not as much a problem for me astranslating into English ;-) Should you really desire to translate my site into Dutch, then be my guest. As the worst case situation is that it just gets neglected if you get interested in other things. Just don't try translating the News page, when I tend to type a lot, where that News goes all the way back to 2000. The best way to do this is to just translate the paragraphs into a text file, where I can then paste these into the right sections on my HTML pages. Should you really want to translate all suitable pages, then there are about 38 pages excluding all the News ones. There are a few pages that are not easy to find, where I would have to point those out. The first job would be to translate the welcome page and the menu text. And since it is best to e-mail me to discuss this further, then you can do so at yourads at cardman.co.uk. Well, good luck, when the last attempt to translate my former site was back in 1998 to Svenska. For nostelga purproses, then I have put the Swedish version of my old site here... http://www.cardman.co.uk/esg/Svenska/ You can see that 9 pages were translated before he gave up, where I will keep that up for a few days before removing it again. Cardman http://www.cardman.com http://www.cardman.co.uk Jul 20 '05 #35

 P: n/a : I have been feeling : for a long time that it needs another improvement. Maybe, you can test serverside if one visits for the first time. You can check with script or serverside if one comes via google.. So you don't need to guess.. that bad. Then it shows more professional I think. And maybe just start to tell people what's the site about.. instead of guessing where they come from or how that they did find you. Maybe you want items to be clickable and then be added to a basket. PHP-Nuke is a free php/MySQL script to built a website that also has shopping script and can handle multiple languages. Wouter Jul 20 '05 #36

 P: n/a On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 02:24:42 +0000, Cardman wrote: Then it is odd how my Atlas says that the languages used there areDutch and Frisian. It probably tells you the official language of Eire is Gaelic too, I wouldn't bet on your chances of finding a speaker, let alone a speaker who doesn't also understand English. Jim. -- comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/ Jul 20 '05 #37

 P: n/a On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 12:55:38 GMT, ji*@jibbering.com (Jim Ley) wrote: On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 02:24:42 +0000, Cardman wrote:Then it is odd how my Atlas says that the languages used there areDutch and Frisian.It probably tells you the official language of Eire is Gaelic too, English followed by Irish Gaelic apparently. I wouldn't bet on your chances of finding a speaker, let alone aspeaker who doesn't also understand English. I believe the difference is that Ireland (Eire) has accepted the fact that English has assimilated the population, but they have not scrubbed off the former national language yet. The same thing happens in Wales to a lesser degree, when more people their speak English than Welsh. One reason could be the neighbouring English crossing the mountains into dragon country. It would be nice had it listed what a large percentage of the population can speak, instead of what the politicians desire the population to only speak. Cardman http://www.cardman.com http://www.cardman.co.uk Jul 20 '05 #38

 P: n/a Jim Ley wrote: [the atlas] probably tells you the official language of Eire is Gaelic too, I wouldn't bet on your chances of finding a speaker, let alone a speaker who doesn't also understand English. Maybe the oldest people? My atlas notes gaelic as regional (western parts) and diminishing in use. No notes about first or second language. -- Bas Cost Budde http://www.heuveltop.nl/BasCB Jul 20 '05 #39