Defeating pop-up stoppers please?

[Bill]

Hello Programmers,
I am looking for either Java Script (OR HTML etc)
to DEFEAT Pop-up Stoppers

e.g It will bring up a window that will
LOOK like a Pop-up
FEEL like a Pop-up
Allow a name and e-mail entry
BUT is not affected by Popup Stopper, PopUp Killer etc

Bill

[djkraz]

Wow, finally somebody that wants to help! APPLAUSE!

Our window is not an advertisement , but does need to be
loaded in a popup window.
Without talking about the 20 or 30 per cent which have disabled JS ...

Is it that many?

I am not apposed to keeping it in the same window, as long as it's an
elegent solution. The problem is making it the size that the creator
of the window intended it to be, as not to distort the content. If
you don't mind, look at some of the examples on
http://www.amplifytheweb.com/examples2.html and maybe you'll see what
I mean. Our software allows any user to create pages like you see in
the examples, then share those pages with anyone. Those users will
then expect that there pages will look the same when other people view
them. I don't think there is any way of doing what we are doing
without using JS, so I guess there really isn't a solution for people
that have js disabled.

However, we
have had a lot of complaints about our page "not working" when in fact
it's a popup blocker blocking us.
1) Realize your page working without JS
that's to say : every pages folow themselves in same window
2) add some JS to get some dynamism if you want
JS must not be used as a router, a bypass would allways be present.
(if you want to be compatible with most of persons).

I don't know if it will ever be possible for our stuff to work without
js. If you believe otherwise, please do tell.
3) for popups add a test function about their state (opened or not ?)
if popup not opened, opening the page in main window is the alone soluce
I hope that those who unaccept popups would accept to activate
their back-button (and that they know it exists! )
I think I finally have this part of it working, however I heard that
the test will not work with some popup blockers. I don't know if this
is true or not.
4) Add a note about clever popups killers (kill only auto popups).

Always remember that when we are creating web sites, that we
are not creating them for ourselves, but the majority of the web
users.
That's to say : maxi 60 to 70 % of users

Well, if 20 to 30% of users have js disabled, then that would be a
good target for me.

Thanks,
Blocked & Frustrated

The frustration only ocures by (bad ?) uses of users

Mostly frustrated by people that are posting not to help but to amuse
themselves.

Thanks again for trying to help, it is greatly appreciated!

[Michael Winter]

dj****@REMOVE.THIS.msn.com wrote on 12 Dec 2003 at Fri, 12 Dec
2003 21:01:41 GMT:

Ivan Marsh wrote:

Speaking of closed minded. I like your "If you don't agree with
me you're wrong" attitude. (typical developer)
If you would have read my message, you would have noticed that
the "don't agree" comment was referring to the fact that we are
developing for the majority of users, and not for ourselves!

You don't seem to realise that you don't write for the majority of
users, you write for Internet users. This covers a wide range of
people, with different preferences, viewing habits, and abilities.
Your goal as a web developer is to make your site navigatable for
anyone who might visit it. Most technologies, including Flash,
JavaScript (and DOM), CSS, even images, should be considered
optional. If your site can't function without them, then you've
failed as a designer and a developer. By all means use them whenever
necessary (or desirable), but allow for fall-back approaches if the
user can't, or doesn't want to, use them.
So, are you saying that you don't care what your users
think?????
You seem to be the one not caring for your users.

One simple solution: Don't do it in a popup.

That sounds more like a statement than a solution...

If you don't use pop-ups, you don't get these problems. Sounds like a
solution to me.
Currently I don't resize the browser, but would have to if I
didn't use a popup. The whole point is to make what you see in
the browser just like what the user with the actual software
created.
No, the whole point is to deliver your content to the user. If you
have to do something that the user doesn't want you to do (or
prevents you from doing), you've failed to do that.
I'm not trying to change the way user's operate.

No, not permanently, but you are forcing them to do things that they
might not otherwise do. You cannot argue this point. I, as a user,
disable (unprompted) pop-ups by choice. You seem to be saying that in
order to use your website, I have to use your pop-ups. In order to
use your pop-ups, I have to disable my blocker, just for you. I can
guarantee that that would never happen in a million years. I will not
be alone in this decision, so you'll have already lost some of your
potential audience.

Mike

--
Michael Winter
M.******@blueyonder.co.invalid (replace ".invalid" with ".uk")

[djkraz]

> You don't seem to realise that you don't write for the majority of

users, you write for Internet users. This covers a wide range of
people, with different preferences, viewing habits, and abilities.
Your goal as a web developer is to make your site navigatable for
anyone who might visit it. Most technologies, including Flash,
JavaScript (and DOM), CSS, even images, should be considered
optional. If your site can't function without them, then you've
failed as a designer and a developer. By all means use them whenever
necessary (or desirable), but allow for fall-back approaches if the
user can't, or doesn't want to, use them.
Look at the examples, and tell me what would be a reasonable fallback.
Like I said before, I am open to suggestions, as long as they are
reasonable. Unfortunetly, I don't think it will be possible to make
it work for non javascript users.
You seem to be the one not caring for your users.
Do you think I would be posting here if I didn't??
If you don't use pop-ups, you don't get these problems. Sounds like a
solution to me.
Once again, not a solution. Somebody said possibly use an iframe,
that sounds like a possible solution versus just saying "don't use
popup's"...
No, the whole point is to deliver your content to the user. If you
have to do something that the user doesn't want you to do (or
prevents you from doing), you've failed to do that.
If you haven't figured it out yet, it's not my content.. It's content
created by users of our software. You can't tell me that if you
created something and you wanted to send it to your friend that you
would want them to see it totally different then what you intended it
to be.
No, not permanently, but you are forcing them to do things that they
might not otherwise do. You cannot argue this point. I, as a user,
disable (unprompted) pop-ups by choice. You seem to be saying that in
order to use your website, I have to use your pop-ups. In order to
use your pop-ups, I have to disable my blocker, just for you. I can
guarantee that that would never happen in a million years. I will not
be alone in this decision, so you'll have already lost some of your
potential audience.

No, our site does not use popups. The popups are used to view content
created by users of our software.
What do you mean by "unprompted"? If you mean that if you click a
link and it gen's a popup you allow it, then I don't get why you are
arguing with me as that senario is not a problem for me. It's the
people that install something that has a popup blocker whether they no
it or not, and it in turn block's all popup's. We have had a lot of
people try to view one of these windows that have absolutely no idea
that they even have a popup blocker let alone how to allow certain
sites. Unfortunely a lot of popup blockers do block all popup's, not
just ones that are launched onload and onunload... It seems to me
that for users like this, I will have to make the page load within the
parent window, then resize that window. I really didn't want to
resize browsers as that is just as annoying as a popup, however nobody
has come up with a better solution. Would anybody get upset if a page
automatically made your window maximized or as big as the screen
allows? The content window get's scaled proportionatly to fit within
the window, but if your browser is half the size of your screen, why
scale it so small right? We only scale down, so it would never be
bigger than the creator wanted it to be but it must be as close to the
intended size as possible which would mean making non-maximized
browser windows bigger when the content is larger than the existing
window.
Does anybody have a problem with this?

[Fabian]

dj****@REMOVE.THIS.msn.com hu kiteb:

If you haven't figured it out yet, it's not my content.. It's content
created by users of our software.

This is like www.alltheonlineadvertsyoucouldwant.com defending
themselves by saying those adverts arent theirs, they are merely created
by their customers.
--
--
Fabian
Visit my website often and for long periods!
http://www.lajzar.co.uk