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My Very Strange Webhost, SBI! -- Opinions, Please

P: n/a

Friends, your opinions and advice, please:

I have a very simple JavaScript image-swap which works on my end but
when uploaded to my host at http://buildit.sitesell.com/sunnyside.html
does not work.

To rule out all possible factors, I made up a dummy page for an
index.html to upload, along the lines of <html><head><title></title></
head><body></body></html>.; the image-swap itself is your basic <img
src="blah.png" onMouseOver="bleh.gif" onMouseOut="blah.png">.

All file paths are correct; all image files have been uploaded; the
JavaScript itself, such as it is, is also correct.

That is to say, all very simple.

And still it doesn't work.

Now I contacted their customer/tech support, and only after three days
with the third rep was it acknowledged that I had a problem which they
ought to look into (at first they did the usual tech support thing
and, upon seeing the keyword "JavaScript" immediately disavowed any
responsibility for my situation, as if I was calling about third-party
software or something like that).

After another three days of not receiving my files that they asked me
to send, which I did via Yahoo!, they took a whole week to investigate
the matter

This is what I was told, in relevant part:

The issue is with how the absolute and relative links are
used, and our programmers have said (and tested) that
if you...

1. Upload a dummy file with all the images referenced
separately, i.e. in separate <img src ="..."tags

2. Make all the links absolute before uploading

....then what you want to achieve will be successful on
the live page.
Can someone parse that for me, please? I don't understand what's
being asked of me, exactly.

Am I really being asked to use absolute path-names? Couldn't that
prove very messy down the road should I decide to move files/pages
around??

And, moreover, how am I supposed to use separate <imgtags for the
two image files that are to be used for an image-swap?? How would the
browser know to link the two in the manner of an image-swap if
"distributed" over separate <imgtags??

And is it perhaps somehow too much for me to expect my webpages to
upload "as is" -- or is it not unusual for a webhost to have
particular requirements about how such things need to be?? SBI! is my
first webhost so I really don't know what industry standards would be.
Jun 27 '08 #1
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P: n/a
On 2008-05-08, Prisoner at War <pr*************@yahoo.comwrote:
>
Friends, your opinions and advice, please:

I have a very simple JavaScript image-swap which works on my end but
when uploaded to my host at http://buildit.sitesell.com/sunnyside.html
does not work.

To rule out all possible factors, I made up a dummy page for an
index.html to upload, along the lines of <html><head><title></title></
head><body></body></html>.; the image-swap itself is your basic <img
src="blah.png" onMouseOver="bleh.gif" onMouseOut="blah.png">.
Doesn't onmouseover etc. have to be a script, not just the name of
another image?

I've never heard of this technique before and can't find it in the HTML
spec.
All file paths are correct; all image files have been uploaded; the
JavaScript itself, such as it is, is also correct.

That is to say, all very simple.

And still it doesn't work.

Now I contacted their customer/tech support, and only after three days
with the third rep was it acknowledged that I had a problem which they
ought to look into (at first they did the usual tech support thing
and, upon seeing the keyword "JavaScript" immediately disavowed any
responsibility for my situation, as if I was calling about third-party
software or something like that).
It's not like the JavaScript is running on their server, so it shouldn't
make any difference to them.
After another three days of not receiving my files that they asked me
to send, which I did via Yahoo!, they took a whole week to investigate
the matter

This is what I was told, in relevant part:

The issue is with how the absolute and relative links are
used, and our programmers have said (and tested) that
if you...

1. Upload a dummy file with all the images referenced
separately, i.e. in separate <img src ="..."tags

2. Make all the links absolute before uploading

...then what you want to achieve will be successful on
the live page.
Can someone parse that for me, please? I don't understand what's
being asked of me, exactly.

Am I really being asked to use absolute path-names? Couldn't that
prove very messy down the road should I decide to move files/pages
around??
Yes. And if they're absolute, how are you supposed to know what the root
is?
And, moreover, how am I supposed to use separate <imgtags for the
two image files that are to be used for an image-swap?? How would the
browser know to link the two in the manner of an image-swap if
"distributed" over separate <imgtags??

And is it perhaps somehow too much for me to expect my webpages to
upload "as is" -- or is it not unusual for a webhost to have
particular requirements about how such things need to be?? SBI! is my
first webhost so I really don't know what industry standards would be.
I don't think things are supposed to be this difficult.
Jun 27 '08 #2

P: n/a
Prisoner at War wrote:
>
Friends, your opinions and advice, please:

I have a very simple JavaScript image-swap which works on my end but
when uploaded to my host at http://buildit.sitesell.com/sunnyside.html
does not work.

To rule out all possible factors, I made up a dummy page for an
index.html to upload, along the lines of <html><head><title></title></
head><body></body></html>.; the image-swap itself is your basic <img
src="blah.png" onMouseOver="bleh.gif" onMouseOut="blah.png">.

All file paths are correct; all image files have been uploaded; the
JavaScript itself, such as it is, is also correct.

That is to say, all very simple.

And still it doesn't work.

Now I contacted their customer/tech support, and only after three days
with the third rep was it acknowledged that I had a problem which they
ought to look into (at first they did the usual tech support thing
and, upon seeing the keyword "JavaScript" immediately disavowed any
responsibility for my situation, as if I was calling about third-party
software or something like that).

After another three days of not receiving my files that they asked me
to send, which I did via Yahoo!, they took a whole week to investigate
the matter

This is what I was told, in relevant part:

The issue is with how the absolute and relative links are
used, and our programmers have said (and tested) that
if you...

1. Upload a dummy file with all the images referenced
separately, i.e. in separate <img src ="..."tags

2. Make all the links absolute before uploading

...then what you want to achieve will be successful on
the live page.
Can someone parse that for me, please? I don't understand what's
being asked of me, exactly.

Am I really being asked to use absolute path-names? Couldn't that
prove very messy down the road should I decide to move files/pages
around??

And, moreover, how am I supposed to use separate <imgtags for the
two image files that are to be used for an image-swap?? How would the
browser know to link the two in the manner of an image-swap if
"distributed" over separate <imgtags??

And is it perhaps somehow too much for me to expect my webpages to
upload "as is" -- or is it not unusual for a webhost to have
particular requirements about how such things need to be?? SBI! is my
first webhost so I really don't know what industry standards would be.
The onmouseover and onmouseout parameters of the tag needs to refer to
a JavaScript function, or even a small JavaScript contained inside the
parameter text, not a reference to an image location.

How to achieve such an effect is described, among other places, here:
http://www.hypergurl.com/rolloverimage.html

--
Kim André Akerĝ
- ki******@NOSPAMbetadome.com
(remove NOSPAM to contact me directly)
Jun 27 '08 #3

P: n/a
On Thu, 8 May 2008 13:54:01 -0700 (PDT), Prisoner at War
<pr*************@yahoo.comwrote:
>
Friends, your opinions and advice, please:

I have a very simple JavaScript image-swap which works on my end but
when uploaded to my host at http://buildit.sitesell.com/sunnyside.html
does not work.

To rule out all possible factors, I made up a dummy page for an
index.html to upload, along the lines of <html><head><title></title></
head><body></body></html>.; the image-swap itself is your basic <img
src="blah.png" onMouseOver="bleh.gif" onMouseOut="blah.png">.

All file paths are correct; all image files have been uploaded; the
JavaScript itself, such as it is, is also correct.

That is to say, all very simple.

And still it doesn't work.

Now I contacted their customer/tech support, and only after three days
with the third rep was it acknowledged that I had a problem which they
ought to look into (at first they did the usual tech support thing
and, upon seeing the keyword "JavaScript" immediately disavowed any
responsibility for my situation, as if I was calling about third-party
software or something like that).

After another three days of not receiving my files that they asked me
to send, which I did via Yahoo!, they took a whole week to investigate
the matter

This is what I was told, in relevant part:

The issue is with how the absolute and relative links are
used, and our programmers have said (and tested) that
if you...

1. Upload a dummy file with all the images referenced
separately, i.e. in separate <img src ="..."tags

2. Make all the links absolute before uploading

...then what you want to achieve will be successful on
the live page.
Can someone parse that for me, please? I don't understand what's
being asked of me, exactly.

Am I really being asked to use absolute path-names? Couldn't that
prove very messy down the road should I decide to move files/pages
around??

And, moreover, how am I supposed to use separate <imgtags for the
two image files that are to be used for an image-swap?? How would the
browser know to link the two in the manner of an image-swap if
"distributed" over separate <imgtags??

And is it perhaps somehow too much for me to expect my webpages to
upload "as is" -- or is it not unusual for a webhost to have
particular requirements about how such things need to be?? SBI! is my
first webhost so I really don't know what industry standards would be.
bleh.gif would never be parsed as a valid function. By any scripting
engine.

<img src="blah.png" onMouseOver="this.src='bleh.gif';"
onMouseOut="this.src='blah.png';"will work.

Yet the support is plain clueless. Dump'em. Find yourself a real
hosting service - or host it yourself, all you need is static ip from
your 'net provider. Even plain XP can support up to 80 concurrent
connections - enough for an amateur site. Need more? Get
Linux/Apache for free, or eMule WinServer2003 - Bill Gates surely will
not go broke without your license fee.

NNN
Jun 27 '08 #4

P: n/a
no****@nowhere.net wrote:
On Thu, 8 May 2008 13:54:01 -0700 (PDT), Prisoner at War
<pr*************@yahoo.comwrote:
>Friends, your opinions and advice, please:

I have a very simple JavaScript image-swap which works on my end but
when uploaded to my host at http://buildit.sitesell.com/sunnyside.html
does not work.

To rule out all possible factors, I made up a dummy page for an
index.html to upload, along the lines of <html><head><title></title></
head><body></body></html>.; the image-swap itself is your basic <img
src="blah.png" onMouseOver="bleh.gif" onMouseOut="blah.png">.

All file paths are correct; all image files have been uploaded; the
JavaScript itself, such as it is, is also correct.

That is to say, all very simple.

And still it doesn't work.

Now I contacted their customer/tech support, and only after three days
with the third rep was it acknowledged that I had a problem which they
ought to look into (at first they did the usual tech support thing
and, upon seeing the keyword "JavaScript" immediately disavowed any
responsibility for my situation, as if I was calling about third-party
software or something like that).

After another three days of not receiving my files that they asked me
to send, which I did via Yahoo!, they took a whole week to investigate
the matter

This is what I was told, in relevant part:

The issue is with how the absolute and relative links are
used, and our programmers have said (and tested) that
if you...

1. Upload a dummy file with all the images referenced
separately, i.e. in separate <img src ="..."tags

2. Make all the links absolute before uploading

...then what you want to achieve will be successful on
the live page.
Can someone parse that for me, please? I don't understand what's
being asked of me, exactly.

Am I really being asked to use absolute path-names? Couldn't that
prove very messy down the road should I decide to move files/pages
around??

And, moreover, how am I supposed to use separate <imgtags for the
two image files that are to be used for an image-swap?? How would the
browser know to link the two in the manner of an image-swap if
"distributed" over separate <imgtags??

And is it perhaps somehow too much for me to expect my webpages to
upload "as is" -- or is it not unusual for a webhost to have
particular requirements about how such things need to be?? SBI! is my
first webhost so I really don't know what industry standards would be.

bleh.gif would never be parsed as a valid function. By any scripting
engine.

<img src="blah.png" onMouseOver="this.src='bleh.gif';"
onMouseOut="this.src='blah.png';"will work.

Yet the support is plain clueless. Dump'em. Find yourself a real
hosting service - or host it yourself, all you need is static ip from
your 'net provider. Even plain XP can support up to 80 concurrent
connections - enough for an amateur site. Need more? Get
Linux/Apache for free, or eMule WinServer2003 - Bill Gates surely will
not go broke without your license fee.

NNN
The hosting company's job is to keep servers running, not troubleshoot
our code. I would never expect a hosting company to be knowledgeable
about javascript or any other language.

And hosting it yourself is the worst thing you can do. What happens if
your phone line goes down? Your power goes out? Your server hangs
while you are at work - or worse yet, on vacation. Additionally, it may
be a violation of your ISP's TOS (and they may even have port 80 blocked
for incoming requests).

Plus you wouldn't get support for your javascript.

Hosting is a commodity. But don't expect the hosting company to do what
you're not paying for.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attglobal.net
==================

Jun 27 '08 #5

P: n/a
SAZ
In article <70e2516c-e4c7-455b-9cfe-ca3d4399c2f0
@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, pr*************@yahoo.com says...
>
Friends, your opinions and advice, please:

I have a very simple JavaScript image-swap which works on my end but
when uploaded to my host at http://buildit.sitesell.com/sunnyside.html
does not work.

To rule out all possible factors, I made up a dummy page for an
index.html to upload, along the lines of <html><head><title></title></
head><body></body></html>.; the image-swap itself is your basic <img
src="blah.png" onMouseOver="bleh.gif" onMouseOut="blah.png">.

All file paths are correct; all image files have been uploaded; the
JavaScript itself, such as it is, is also correct.

That is to say, all very simple.

And still it doesn't work.

Now I contacted their customer/tech support, and only after three days
with the third rep was it acknowledged that I had a problem which they
ought to look into (at first they did the usual tech support thing
and, upon seeing the keyword "JavaScript" immediately disavowed any
responsibility for my situation, as if I was calling about third-party
software or something like that).

After another three days of not receiving my files that they asked me
to send, which I did via Yahoo!, they took a whole week to investigate
the matter

This is what I was told, in relevant part:

The issue is with how the absolute and relative links are
used, and our programmers have said (and tested) that
if you...

1. Upload a dummy file with all the images referenced
separately, i.e. in separate <img src ="..."tags

2. Make all the links absolute before uploading

...then what you want to achieve will be successful on
the live page.
Can someone parse that for me, please? I don't understand what's
being asked of me, exactly.

Am I really being asked to use absolute path-names? Couldn't that
prove very messy down the road should I decide to move files/pages
around??

And, moreover, how am I supposed to use separate <imgtags for the
two image files that are to be used for an image-swap?? How would the
browser know to link the two in the manner of an image-swap if
"distributed" over separate <imgtags??

And is it perhaps somehow too much for me to expect my webpages to
upload "as is" -- or is it not unusual for a webhost to have
particular requirements about how such things need to be?? SBI! is my
first webhost so I really don't know what industry standards would be.
It's not uncommon for a Hosting Tech Dept to walk away from a script you
wrote, as it really isn't their problem - especially Javascript, which
is client-side. By responding at all, they were actually going above
and beyond what could reasonably be expected.
Jun 27 '08 #6

P: n/a
Ben C <sp******@spam.eggswrites:
On 2008-05-08, Prisoner at War <pr*************@yahoo.comwrote:
>>
Friends, your opinions and advice, please:

I have a very simple JavaScript image-swap which works on my end but
when uploaded to my host at http://buildit.sitesell.com/sunnyside.html
does not work.

To rule out all possible factors, I made up a dummy page for an
index.html to upload, along the lines of <html><head><title></title></
head><body></body></html>.; the image-swap itself is your basic <img
src="blah.png" onMouseOver="bleh.gif" onMouseOut="blah.png">.

Doesn't onmouseover etc. have to be a script, not just the name of
another image?
One could write a popup script that would scan the DOM in the domReady
event, and replace the image names with real event handler closures
that load the named images.

I'm doing a similar feature on a site I'm working on right now - I
include a script at the top of the page, and links that include a "rel"
attribute value are modified through the DOM to add an onClick event
that is handled by loading the target with AJAX and displaying it in a
popup div.

Since the pieces that make the page reliant on JavaScript are added by
a JavaScript event handler, on browsers that don't do JavaScript by
design or by user choice, the links will remain ordinary links. That
makes this technique a good way to build in a graceful fallback.

Perhaps Prisoner was using a script at one time that did this kind of
on the fly modification, and is now using one for which he needs to
insert a more traditional function call into the event attributes.
>Now I contacted their customer/tech support, and only after three days
with the third rep was it acknowledged that I had a problem which they
ought to look into (at first they did the usual tech support thing
and, upon seeing the keyword "JavaScript" immediately disavowed any
responsibility for my situation, as if I was calling about third-party
software or something like that).

It's not like the JavaScript is running on their server, so it shouldn't
make any difference to them.
This is a free hosting service, right? They could be inserting content,
like banner ads or something, in return for free hosting. I can well
imagine a banner ad with a mouseover script. And I can well imagine a
mouseover script being packaged this way. It needs JavaScript to
function anyway, so using JS to connect the event handlers is no
additional burden. It's certainly valid HTML. And it's a bit less
error prone; end users can use it who don't know a bit of JavaScript.

sherm--

--
My blog: http://shermspace.blogspot.com
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Jun 27 '08 #7

P: n/a
Jerry Stuckle <js*******@attglobal.netwrites:
The hosting company's job is to keep servers running, not troubleshoot
our code. I would never expect a hosting company to be knowledgeable
about javascript or any other language.
I couldn't agree more!

Of course, having worked the phones in a "full service" hosting provider
that *did* offer that kind of support, in the full swing of the boom of
the 90s, I'm kind of biased on the subject. :-)
And hosting it yourself is the worst thing you can do. What happens
if your phone line goes down? Your power goes out? Your server hangs
while you are at work - or worse yet, on vacation.
That depends. If it's a hobby site, the answer to those questions may
well be, who cares. I can fix it when I get back, the line gets fixed,
or whatever. Baby pictures don't really need five nines uptime.
Additionally, it
may be a violation of your ISP's TOS (and they may even have port 80
blocked for incoming requests).
I'd be far more concerned with that aspect of it that the reliability.

Also, many ISPs offer web space to their customers, many of them for
free.

sherm--

--
My blog: http://shermspace.blogspot.com
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Jun 27 '08 #8

P: n/a
no****@nowhere.net wrote:
On Thu, 8 May 2008 13:54:01 -0700 (PDT), Prisoner at War wrote:
<snip>
><img src="blah.png" onMouseOver="bleh.gif"
onMouseOut="blah.png">.
<snip>
bleh.gif would never be parsed as a valid function.
By any scripting engine.
<snip>

The values of intrinsic event attributes are not parsed as functions,
they are parsed as function bodies, and - bleh.gif - is a valid function
body. It is a single expression statement consisting of a dot notation
property accessor. Pointless, and unlikely to execute without error, but
still completely valid.

Richard.

Jun 27 '08 #9

P: n/a

Erratum:

I had neglected the "src" attribute in my post above (though not on
the actual webpage at issue)"

<img name="image" id="image" src=pic1.gif"
onMouseOver="document.getElementById('image').src= 'pic2.gif;'"
onMouseOut="document.getElementById('image').src=' pic1.gif;'" />
Jun 27 '08 #10

P: n/a
On May 8, 7:17 pm, Kim André Akerĝ <kiman...@NOSPAMbetadome.com>
wrote:
>

The onmouseover and onmouseout parameters of the tag needs to refer to
a JavaScript function, or even a small JavaScript contained inside the
parameter text, not a reference to an image location.
Okay, here's the actual <imgtag that was used:

<img name="image" id="image" src=pic1.gif"
onMouseOver="document.getElementById('image').src= 'pic2.gif;'"
onMouseOut="document.getElementById('image').src=' pic1.gif;'" />
Remember, it works perfectly on *my* end. If it were an issue of a
JavaScript error, it would not have worked.
How to achieve such an effect is described, among other places, here:http://www.hypergurl.com/rolloverimage.html
Well, sure, it's possible to do it that way, too, but it seems like an
extra step, calling up JavaScript from within the HTML tag for a
simple thing like an image-swap when using JavaScript in the HTML
right there would suffice also.
--
Kim André Akerĝ
- kiman...@NOSPAMbetadome.com
(remove NOSPAM to contact me directly)
Jun 27 '08 #11

P: n/a
On May 8, 8:33 pm, "nob...@nowhere.net" <mygarbage2...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>

bleh.gif would never be parsed as a valid function. By any scripting
engine.
Remember, I'd reported that it works on my end perfectly.
<img src="blah.png" onMouseOver="this.src='bleh.gif';"
onMouseOut="this.src='blah.png';"will work.
Okay, sorry, I was dabbling in a bit of my own short-hand notation
there; the actual HTML/JavaScript used was

<img name="image" id="image" src=pic1.gif"
onMouseOver="document.getElementById('image').src= 'pic2.gif;'"
onMouseOut="document.getElementById('image').src=' pic1.gif;'" />
Yet the support is plain clueless. Dump'em. Find yourself a real
hosting service - or host it yourself, all you need is static ip from
your 'net provider. Even plain XP can support up to 80 concurrent
connections - enough for an amateur site. Need more? Get
Linux/Apache for free, or eMule WinServer2003 - Bill Gates surely will
not go broke without your license fee.
Well, I do want to put a website before I delve into how to host one
myself -- if I'd ever even go that far, actually (it's interesting,
but I'd probably rather use the time to learn Photoshop or something,
you see).

Any webhosts you might recommend? For a newbie who's growing in
knowledge and ability, yet doesn't plan on progressing beyond some
"intermediate" level of expertise in general. I'm souring on SBI!
because of a number of reasons, this little image-swap weirdness being
one of them.
NNN
Jun 27 '08 #12

P: n/a
Jim
On May 9, 10:15*am, Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_...@yahoo.comwrote:
>
Sorry, I was dabbling in my own short-hand; the actual HTML/JavaScript
used is

<img name="image" id="image" src=pic1.gif"
onMouseOver="document.getElementById('image').src= 'pic2.gif;'"
onMouseOut="document.getElementById('image').src=' pic1.gif;'" />
Oh, my, Prisoner. You say this works on your computer? But..but..
all the TYPOS!!!

Can you tell the difference between what you have typed above and
this:

<img name="image" id="image" src="pic1.gif"
onMouseOver="document.getElementById('image').src= 'pic2.gif';"
onMouseOut="document.getElementById('image').src=' pic1.gif';" />

All quotes (double and single) are properly opened and closed, and the
semi-colons go *between* the the single/doubles. Now THIS code works
fine on my system.

Hope it helps!

Jim
Jun 27 '08 #13

P: n/a
Since no one has stated the obvious I'll give it a try...

Prisoner at War wrote:
Okay, here's the actual <imgtag that was used:

<img name="image" id="image" src=pic1.gif"
onMouseOver="document.getElementById('image').src= 'pic2.gif;'"
onMouseOut="document.getElementById('image').src=' pic1.gif;'" />
You have a syntax error there. You're setting src to 'pic2.gif;' and
back to 'pic1.gif;'. Notice the extra ";" - it doesn't belong there.

Perhaps you meant to write -
onmouseover="document.getElementById('image').src= 'pic2.gif';" - but you
may as well omit the ";" all together.

Better yet, use - onmouseover="this.src='pic2.gif'".
Remember, it works perfectly on *my* end. If it were an issue of a
JavaScript error, it would not have worked.
I find it very hard to believe that your code above could have worked in
any browser.

--
Joose Niemi
Jun 27 '08 #14

P: n/a
Prisoner at War <pr*************@yahoo.comwrites:
On May 8, 11:57 pm, Sherman Pendley <spamt...@dot-app.orgwrote:
>>
One could write a popup script that would scan the DOM in the domReady
event, and replace the image names with real event handler closures
that load the named images.

I'm doing a similar feature on a site I'm working on right now

Interesting project you're attempting there
I didn't say "attempting," I said "doing." :-)

I'm not trying to be snooty or anything, I understand that what I'm
talking about here would be hard for a newbie. I'm just saying, I'm not
a newbie, nor am I describing something I mean to attempt and hope will
work - I'm talking from experience about a working site.

sherm--

--
My blog: http://shermspace.blogspot.com
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Jun 27 '08 #15

P: n/a
On May 9, 12:36 pm, Sherman Pendley <spamt...@dot-app.orgwrote:
>

I'm not trying to be snooty or anything, I understand that what I'm
talking about here would be hard for a newbie. I'm just saying, I'm not
a newbie, nor am I describing something I mean to attempt and hope will
work - I'm talking from experience about a working site.
Ah, um, didn't mean "attempting" in a literal sense.

So who's your webhost??
sherm--

--
My blog:http://shermspace.blogspot.com
Cocoa programming in Perl:http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Jun 27 '08 #16

P: n/a
Prisoner at War <pr*************@yahoo.comwrites:
On May 9, 12:36 pm, Sherman Pendley <spamt...@dot-app.orgwrote:
>>

I'm not trying to be snooty or anything, I understand that what I'm
talking about here would be hard for a newbie. I'm just saying, I'm not
a newbie, nor am I describing something I mean to attempt and hope will
work - I'm talking from experience about a working site.

Ah, um, didn't mean "attempting" in a literal sense.
Sorry, I misunderstood.
So who's your webhost??
I use DreamHost - $120/year, more space and transfer than any ten sites of
mine will need, and FastCGI support. The latter is a very nice feature if
your vocabulary includes the words Rails or Catalyst, and it's unusual to
find at that price.

sherm--

--
My blog: http://shermspace.blogspot.com
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Jun 27 '08 #17

P: n/a
On Fri, 9 May 2008 07:21:01 -0700 (PDT), Prisoner at War
<pr*************@yahoo.comwrote:
>On May 8, 8:33 pm, "nob...@nowhere.net" <mygarbage2...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>>

bleh.gif would never be parsed as a valid function. By any scripting
engine.

Remember, I'd reported that it works on my end perfectly.
><img src="blah.png" onMouseOver="this.src='bleh.gif';"
onMouseOut="this.src='blah.png';"will work.

Okay, sorry, I was dabbling in a bit of my own short-hand notation
there; the actual HTML/JavaScript used was

<img name="image" id="image" src=pic1.gif"
onMouseOver="document.getElementById('image').src ='pic2.gif;'"
onMouseOut="document.getElementById('image').src= 'pic1.gif;'" />
>Yet the support is plain clueless. Dump'em. Find yourself a real
hosting service - or host it yourself, all you need is static ip from
your 'net provider. Even plain XP can support up to 80 concurrent
connections - enough for an amateur site. Need more? Get
Linux/Apache for free, or eMule WinServer2003 - Bill Gates surely will
not go broke without your license fee.

Well, I do want to put a website before I delve into how to host one
myself -- if I'd ever even go that far, actually (it's interesting,
but I'd probably rather use the time to learn Photoshop or something,
you see).

Any webhosts you might recommend? For a newbie who's growing in
knowledge and ability, yet doesn't plan on progressing beyond some
"intermediate" level of expertise in general. I'm souring on SBI!
because of a number of reasons, this little image-swap weirdness being
one of them.
Dunno... The sites I worked on are mostly hosted on corporate
intranets. The only one open to Internet was also hosted by a big
corp - that was their online ordering system. And I still have not
found time to put together my own private site.

NNN

Jun 27 '08 #18

P: n/a
On Fri, 9 May 2008 22:00:25 -0700 (PDT), Prisoner at War put finger to
keyboard and typed:
>On May 9, 5:41 pm, SAZ <saz1...@nospamexcite.comwrote:
>>

The vast majority of these sites are over 500,000 in Alexa. Frankly,
I'm shocked they're even advertising these numbers and actimg like it's
something special.

Huh? I'm talking about http://results.sitesell.com/sunnyside.html --
like half are *under* 500K Alexa...now my sense is that you can't make
much money until you're 100K Alexa (and no "financial independence"
without ranking below ~45K).
That may be true if your only income is from advertising, although it
depends on what you mean by "much money" - I've helped create an
ad-supported website which is currently ranked around 500,000 by Alexa
and generates around $250 a month in Google Adsense earnings. That's
not a huge amount, but it covers the costs of hosting it with plenty
to spare and it's a useful second income for the owner (who isn't me,
by the way; this isn't one of my sites that I've mentioned in other
posts to this group).

It's certainly not true if you're selling an actual product or
service. I've worked on a site which has an Alexa ranking in the
300,000 range that earns enough to support several full-time employees
and a bunch of contractors.

Mark
--
Miscellaneous remarks at http://Mark.Goodge.co.uk
"Look at the stars; look how they shine for you"
Jun 27 '08 #19

P: n/a
Sherman Pendley wrote:
Prisoner at War <pr*************@yahoo.comwrites:
>On May 9, 12:36 pm, Sherman Pendley <spamt...@dot-app.orgwrote:
>>I'm not trying to be snooty or anything, I understand that what I'm
talking about here would be hard for a newbie. I'm just saying, I'm not
a newbie, nor am I describing something I mean to attempt and hope will
work - I'm talking from experience about a working site.
Ah, um, didn't mean "attempting" in a literal sense.

Sorry, I misunderstood.
>So who's your webhost??

I use DreamHost - $120/year, more space and transfer than any ten sites of
mine will need, and FastCGI support. The latter is a very nice feature if
your vocabulary includes the words Rails or Catalyst, and it's unusual to
find at that price.
You are *off-topic* in comp.lang.javascript and
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html. Will you please
stop this mindless crossposting without Followup-To.
F'up2 misc.consumers

PointedEars
--
realism: HTML 4.01 Strict
evangelism: XHTML 1.0 Strict
madness: XHTML 1.1 as application/xhtml+xml
-- Bjoern Hoehrmann
Jun 27 '08 #20

P: n/a
Mark Goodge wrote:
On Fri, 9 May 2008 22:00:25 -0700 (PDT), Prisoner at War put finger to
keyboard and typed:
>On May 9, 5:41 pm, SAZ <saz1...@nospamexcite.comwrote:
>>The vast majority of these sites are over 500,000 in Alexa. Frankly,
I'm shocked they're even advertising these numbers and actimg like it's
something special.
Huh? I'm talking about http://results.sitesell.com/sunnyside.html --
like half are *under* 500K Alexa...now my sense is that you can't make
much money until you're 100K Alexa (and no "financial independence"
without ranking below ~45K).

That may be true if your only income is from advertising, although it
depends on what you mean by "much money" - I've helped create an
ad-supported website which is currently ranked around 500,000 by Alexa
and generates around $250 a month in Google Adsense earnings. That's
not a huge amount, but it covers the costs of hosting it with plenty
to spare and it's a useful second income for the owner (who isn't me,
by the way; this isn't one of my sites that I've mentioned in other
posts to this group).

It's certainly not true if you're selling an actual product or
service. I've worked on a site which has an Alexa ranking in the
300,000 range that earns enough to support several full-time employees
and a bunch of contractors.
This has nothing to do with ECMAScript implementations or HTML. Go away.
F'up2 misc.consumers

PointedEars
--
var bugRiddenCrashPronePieceOfJunk = (
navigator.userAgent.indexOf('MSIE 5') != -1
&& navigator.userAgent.indexOf('Mac') != -1
) // Plone, register_function.js:16
Jun 27 '08 #21

P: n/a
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <Po*********@web.dewrites:
Sherman Pendley wrote:
>Prisoner at War <pr*************@yahoo.comwrites:
>>On May 9, 12:36 pm, Sherman Pendley <spamt...@dot-app.orgwrote:
I'm not trying to be snooty or anything, I understand that what I'm
talking about here would be hard for a newbie. I'm just saying, I'm not
a newbie, nor am I describing something I mean to attempt and hope will
work - I'm talking from experience about a working site.
Ah, um, didn't mean "attempting" in a literal sense.

Sorry, I misunderstood.
>>So who's your webhost??

I use DreamHost - $120/year, more space and transfer than any ten sites of
mine will need, and FastCGI support. The latter is a very nice feature if
your vocabulary includes the words Rails or Catalyst, and it's unusual to
find at that price.

You are *off-topic* in comp.lang.javascript and
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html. Will you please
stop this mindless crossposting without Followup-To.
If you'd asked nicely, I might have.
F'up2 misc.consumers
Stuff it. I know how to operate my news reader.

sherm--

--
My blog: http://shermspace.blogspot.com
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Jun 27 '08 #22

P: n/a
Sherman Pendley wrote:
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <Po*********@web.dewrites:
>Sherman Pendley wrote:
>>Prisoner at War <pr*************@yahoo.comwrites:
On May 9, 12:36 pm, Sherman Pendley <spamt...@dot-app.orgwrote:
I'm not trying to be snooty or anything, I understand that what I'm
talking about here would be hard for a newbie. I'm just saying, I'm not
a newbie, nor am I describing something I mean to attempt and hope will
work - I'm talking from experience about a working site.
Ah, um, didn't mean "attempting" in a literal sense.
Sorry, I misunderstood.

So who's your webhost??
I use DreamHost - $120/year, more space and transfer than any ten sites of
mine will need, and FastCGI support. The latter is a very nice feature if
your vocabulary includes the words Rails or Catalyst, and it's unusual to
find at that price.
You are *off-topic* in comp.lang.javascript and
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html. Will you please
stop this mindless crossposting without Followup-To.

If you'd asked nicely, I might have.
No, you wouldn't. For I asked nicely already, and you did not.
>F'up2 misc.consumers

Stuff it. I know how to operate my news reader.
So much for your capabilities regarding courtesy towards other people.
Score adjusted, F'up2 poster

PointedEars
--
Anyone who slaps a 'this page is best viewed with Browser X' label on
a Web page appears to be yearning for the bad old days, before the Web,
when you had very little chance of reading a document written on another
computer, another word processor, or another network. -- Tim Berners-Lee
Jun 27 '08 #23

P: n/a
On 05/09/08 07:08 am, Prisoner at War wrote:
>
Okay, here's the actual <imgtag that was used:

<img name="image" id="image" src=pic1.gif"
onMouseOver="document.getElementById('image').src= 'pic2.gif;'"
onMouseOut="document.getElementById('image').src=' pic1.gif;'" />
You have images named <pic2.gif;and <pic1.gif;>? (Note the semicolon.)

--
jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
(Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)
Jun 27 '08 #24

P: n/a
On 05/10/08 07:29 pm, Prisoner at War wrote:
>
Here's the test page set up for SBI! to diagnose my problem:

http://www.ego-management.org/test.html

This weekend, they tell me that image-swaps require absolute path
names to preview right....
It works fine here. Seamonkey v1.1.9. (After I turned JS on.)

--
jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
(Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)
Jun 27 '08 #25

P: n/a
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <Po*********@web.dewrites:
No, you wouldn't. For I asked nicely already, and you did not.
Calling someone "mindless" is not nice.
Score adjusted, F'up2 poster
Would you like some cheese with that whine?

sherm--

--
My blog: http://shermspace.blogspot.com
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Jun 27 '08 #26

P: n/a
On May 11, 1:43 am, Jim Moe <jmm-list.AXSPA...@sohnen-moe.comwrote:
On 05/10/08 07:29 pm, Prisoner at War wrote:
Here's the test page set up for SBI! to diagnose my problem:
http://www.ego-management.org/test.html
This weekend, they tell me that image-swaps require absolute path
names to preview right....

It works fine here. Seamonkey v1.1.9. (After I turned JS on.)

--
jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
(Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)
Yep, it works fine *now* -- now that an absolute file path was
specified in the first "src" attribute of the <imgtag (curiously,
the image-swap src attributes remain in relative file path format).

*That* was the problem.

A problem for which at first they denied any responsibility.

Which now seems to never have occurred to anyone else in all the years
since their founding in 1997, as there is no documentation on this
issue: indeed, their specific instructions about uploading webpages is
to use relative file path names!

SBI! is feeling extremely awkward at this point. It's just one weird
situation after another...nothing mission-critical, of course, but a
series of them has me wondering "what next??"
Jun 27 '08 #27

P: n/a
On May 11, 2:49 am, Chaddy2222 <spamlovermailbox-
sicur...@yahoo.com.auwrote:
>

You only need to read back through the older posts from this and other
NG's to get an idea of some of the larger hosts.
Yeah, but nothing like timely information! Perhaps policies have
since changed, etc. -- I myself was all bullish on SBI! only last
month, but then a series of weird incidents like this little image-
swap mystery has given me an "awkward feeling" towards them....
Mind you ServerGrade
only do support by email so you may or may not like that. I don't mind
that as it is easier then getting support on the phone.
I prefer e-mail since everything's in writing and I can't be accused
of miscommunication -- though, of course, communication is a two-way
street, and if someone just isn't paying attention then it doesn't
even matter much that I put things in writing; they will still
misinterpret it!
I also have a
reasonable grounding on what I need to do to get a site set-up so I
like having my site always online.
Also ServerGrade linit the amount of sites on their servers, my server
has 34 sites on it. Other hosts such as Yahoo place up to 300 or more
sites on the one server.
Yeah, looks like I'm going to have to google up some how-to-choose-a-
webhost guides...in the meantime, please continue to share any new
thoughts you may have on the matter. I was hoping to learn with SBI!
but it's turning out to be like having to drop a college course 'cause
the professor has a strange and possibly unhelpful pedagogy and
instead of learning I'm dealing with weird minutiae....
--
Regards Chad.http://freewebdesignonline.org

Jun 27 '08 #28

P: n/a
Jerry Stuckle <js*******@attglobal.netwrites:
At least they're trying to help - even though it isn't their job. The
fact they even gave you their best guess answer is more than most
hosting companies will do.
I think you've missed a key difference here. They're not just bare hosting.
He publishes his pages through a CMS they've written, that "optimizes" his
pages for search engines. They're modifying his pages, and he's asking them
about the JS they're adding - do you still think they're not obliged to
answer him?

sherm--

--
My blog: http://shermspace.blogspot.com
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Jun 27 '08 #29

P: n/a
Sherman Pendley wrote:
Jerry Stuckle <js*******@attglobal.netwrites:
>At least they're trying to help - even though it isn't their job. The
fact they even gave you their best guess answer is more than most
hosting companies will do.

I think you've missed a key difference here. They're not just bare hosting.
He publishes his pages through a CMS they've written, that "optimizes" his
pages for search engines. They're modifying his pages, and he's asking them
about the JS they're adding - do you still think they're not obliged to
answer him?

sherm--
Nope. Nothing I've seen indicates they are changing the javascript.
And if they were, he could easily look at it in his browser source.

Rather, he's blowing smoke in a vain attempt to cover his incompetence.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attglobal.net
==================

Jun 27 '08 #30

P: n/a
In article <m1************@dot-app.org>,
Sherman Pendley <sp******@dot-app.orgwrote:
>
Hate to say it, but - spend some money. What you need is just plain old
advertising, not search engine tweaks. The job of the search engines is
simply to ensure that someone who knows your brand (a unique keyword)
can easily find information about it (your site). Getting the word out
about your brand isn't a search engine's job.

I would advise talking to the other end of Google, and buying some Adwords.
That's where you'll want to use broad terms - Adwords uses the same key-
word database, and they'll put your ads on sites that match the keywords
you supply, so more generic terms will reach more people.
A friend of mine has told me that his website hits and sales go up in
direct proportion to the amount of he spends at Google.

--
dorayme
Jun 27 '08 #31

P: n/a
On May 11, 3:53 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.netwrote:
>

That's what you don't get. IT IS ALL ABOUT JAVASCRIPT! Your javascript
IS NOT FINE.
Huh??? What was wrong with my JavaScript??

Here, take a look at it: http://www.ego-management.org/test.html and
tell me what's wrong with

<img name="dog" id="dog" src="image-files/awww4.png"
onmouseover="document.getElementById('dog').src='i mage-files/
awww.gif';" onmouseout="document.getElementById('dog').src='im age-
files/awww4.png';">
You are asking them to do this.
I don't know how you say that. I'm not asking them about code that
doesn't work -- "gee, can you help me with this code, I'm trying to
get it to do 'x' and it keeps doing 'y'" -- I'm asking them why **code
that works** on my end **doesn't on theirs** even though **all
necessary files** have been uploaded.

I just don't understand how you keep insisting that I'm asking for
programming help when most emphatically I am not. It's like you buy a
car and when you get home it stops working and the dealership tells
you, "sorry, we don't give driving lessons"...total non sequitur....
Which is JAVASCRIPT.
NO -- it's not about the JavaScript, it's about their servers not
seeing a relative file path when an image-swap is attempted. The
issue is how their server handles relative and absolute file paths.
It's got nothing to do with JavaScript.

Honestly, are you one of them SBI! Rapid Response Group cyber-
militiamen? They send those people around rebutting negative SBI!
reviews, and you're just insisting on "JavaScript" when **even SBI!**
now admits it's not about "JavaScript" but "just how SBI! works"....
The only programming bug is between your hears.
That's "ears" -- or did your mother not upload the firmware update?
The problem is NOT with them.
Ah, despite their stipulation that absolute path names must be used in
the case of an image-swap, but *only* in the case of an image-swap,
the problem is "not with them."

Wow, who's your webhost, BTW? Wouldn't happen to be SBI! would it?

I'm new to all this so maybe it's very common or at least not unusual
for webhosts to demand that perfectly valid code be tweaked a little
to work on their servers -- I don't know -- but that's the only case
where "the problem [would not be] with them"....
That's right. Troubleshooting your code IS NOT THEIR JOB.
But I'm not asking them to troubleshoot my code. Why do you insist on
continuing to grossly misrepresent the situation?
Not if it's out of gas, it isn't.
But it's not out of gas. The tires aren't flat. And it isn't upside
down at the bottom of a thousand-foot cliff.
But a more accurate comparison. If your car doesn't run, it it the
responsibility of the lot where you parked your car to tell you why it
isn't running?
Yes, that's why they have lemon laws.

You know, I used to be amazed that this country, with its car culture,
could have gone through *decades* without any lemon laws...until now,
when I consider that people like you for some reason think consumers
have very limited rights.
No. It's their job to paint the lines, fill the
potholes and plow the snow in the winter - so you have a place to park.

That's a MUCH better comparison.
Ah, yes, sarcasm...the response of the intellectually lazy.
Which means you got someone sympathetic with you.
Ah, I see: when they tried to ignore me, they were well within their
rights. Now that they acknowledge my problem, they're doing me a
favor.

Reminds me a bit of people who like to say "all glory be to God" but
claim that war and famine and disease are not the responsibility of an
all-loving all-powerful all-knowing God.

Honestly, are you from the SBI! Rapid Response Group, sent by the
company to rebut me? 'Cause you're not doing a good job of it, man.
Yea, it seems it's hard for you to behave intelligently.
Ah, you with your ad hominem attacks is the epitome of evolutionary
success, whereas my questions about a service I paid $300 for that
can't even handle a standard image-swap is my behaving
unintelligently....

Jerry Stuckle, I don't know why you feel so antagonistic towards me,
but you are totally wrong in your behavior and your logic.
Not at all. I think they acted mostly appropriately - at least until
the third rep.
Jerry, it doesn't matter what you think at this point -- you've
demonstrated that you're just not a reasonable person.
Fine. Just don't come back here whining about more problems. Quire
frankly, no one here gives a damn.
Which is why you've taken the time to make a fool out of yourself,
showing everyone how illogical and ill-behaved you are over something
that has nothing to do with you.
Absolute paths are generally the best way to go when referencing images.
Their instructions specifically stated to use *relative* paths. But
of course you choose to ignore that, while blaming me for being
puzzled over their system.
But you've already proven you're too thick-headed to understand that.
Too thick-headed?? I'm not the one angry over nothing like you,
Jerry.
--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstuck...@attglobal.net
==================
Jun 27 '08 #32

P: n/a

<img name="dog" id="dog" src="http://www.ego-management.org/image-
files/awww4.png" alt="moo" title="meow"
onmouseover="document.getElementById('dog').src='i mage-files/
awww.gif';" onmouseout="document.getElementById('dog').src='im age-
files/awww4.png';">

They used an absolute file path in the first src attribute. Somehow
that got it to work (http://www.ego-management.org/test.html) --
though the other two src attributes remain relative, as I'd had them
originally.

Just what is your problem, Jerry Stuckle? Why do you insist on
proving yourself a liar??

Come on, come out with -- are you an SBI! affiliate? Work for them?
Or just another SBI! cult-member, with their Rapid Response Group of
cyber-militiamen?? I'm serious. You have a personal animus here
that's way beyond the facts at hand.

You have an ulterior motive in using personal attacks against me over
-- what, a customer service issue!
On May 11, 3:54 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.netwrote:
>

Nope. Nothing I've seen indicates they are changing the javascript.
And if they were, he could easily look at it in his browser source.

Rather, he's blowing smoke in a vain attempt to cover his incompetence.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstuck...@attglobal.net
==================
Jun 27 '08 #33

P: n/a
On May 11, 6:32 pm, dorayme <doraymeRidT...@optusnet.com.auwrote:
>

A friend of mine has told me that his website hits and sales go up in
direct proportion to the amount of he spends at Google.
Hmmm, you wouldn't suppose that "saintly" google somehow favors its
clients, would you?? Many on the SBI! private forums have reported
being indexed by google almost right away once they signed on with
google Adsense.
--
dorayme
Jun 27 '08 #34

P: n/a
On May 11, 1:21 pm, Sherman Pendley <spamt...@dot-app.orgwrote:
>

I think you've missed a key difference here. They're not just bare hosting.
He publishes his pages through a CMS they've written, that "optimizes" his
pages for search engines. They're modifying his pages, and he's asking them
about the JS they're adding - do you still think they're not obliged to
answer him?
More to the point: they didn't add to my JavaScript until I brought
the image-swap mystery to their attention.

Indeed, this almost certainly has nothing to do with JavaScript, it
now turns out! It's about how their servers "see" a file when that
file is used as part of an image-swap...apparently, when called as an
image-swap, image files must use absolute paths or else the server
doesn't see them. Sounds like a programming bug to me, but they don't
want to declare it one -- and thus assume responsibility for a minor
matter, so it's simply up to me to deal with how they are.

My only fear is that down the road there should be many more little
oddities like this...already they don't allow me to use .ani or .cur
files, which are the only formats which MSIE 7 would utilize for
custom cursor graphics...no idea why, but they don't and that's that.

Not only do they sound like any other company out there with that kind
of an attitude, but they are in fact somewhat less than other webhosts
in having bizarre little oddities like this image-swap business.

I'm very sad to leave them, as they had been such an interesting
resource for me -- yes, *resource* -- but I really don't want to deal
with any more weird little "surprises" down the road, so I'm going to
cancel my subscription...I hope there aren't any weird surprises with
that as well! Though I shouldn't be too surprised if there were...I
can't find any cancellation info on their website! I'm going to have
to ask customer/tech support again....
sherm--

--
My blog:http://shermspace.blogspot.com
Cocoa programming in Perl:http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Jun 27 '08 #35

P: n/a
In article
<6f**********************************@25g2000hsx.g ooglegroups.com>,
Prisoner at War <pr*************@yahoo.comwrote:
On May 11, 6:32 pm, dorayme <doraymeRidT...@optusnet.com.auwrote:


A friend of mine has told me that his website hits and sales go up in
direct proportion to the amount of he spends at Google.

Hmmm, you wouldn't suppose that "saintly" google somehow favors its
clients, would you?? Many on the SBI! private forums have reported
being indexed by google almost right away once they signed on with
google Adsense.
Know nothing about it, I just relay what I was told by a very successful
businessman who maintains his own website (Joomla based and boy o boy
does it break at larger font-sizes... sssshhhh! I know, it is not
Joomla's fault.)

Me, I just like to make client websites with good and truthful content,
clear words and leave it to the gods... but I suppose I should look to
this ranking business more...

One severe character here could not fathom it when I suggested once that
not all websites are in this race, that great bookmarking and search
engine findability are not everyone's priorities.

--
dorayme
Jun 27 '08 #36

P: n/a


Prisoner at War wrote:
On May 11, 2:49 am, Chaddy2222 <spamlovermailbox-
sicur...@yahoo.com.auwrote:


You only need to read back through the older posts from this and other
NG's to get an idea of some of the larger hosts.

Yeah, but nothing like timely information! Perhaps policies have
since changed, etc. -- I myself was all bullish on SBI! only last
month, but then a series of weird incidents like this little image-
swap mystery has given me an "awkward feeling" towards them....
Mind you ServerGrade
only do support by email so you may or may not like that. I don't mind
that as it is easier then getting support on the phone.

I prefer e-mail since everything's in writing and I can't be accused
of miscommunication -- though, of course, communication is a two-way
street, and if someone just isn't paying attention then it doesn't
even matter much that I put things in writing; they will still
misinterpret it!
I also have a
reasonable grounding on what I need to do to get a site set-up so I
like having my site always online.
Also ServerGrade linit the amount of sites on their servers, my server
has 34 sites on it. Other hosts such as Yahoo place up to 300 or more
sites on the one server.

Yeah, looks like I'm going to have to google up some how-to-choose-a-
webhost guides...in the meantime, please continue to share any new
thoughts you may have on the matter. I was hoping to learn with SBI!
but it's turning out to be like having to drop a college course 'cause
the professor has a strange and possibly unhelpful pedagogy and
instead of learning I'm dealing with weird minutiae....
Well as for ServerGrade. Just try them out. Have a look through the
site if you have not done so already though.
But as for learning you might not be able to learn much from the web
host because as Jerry said it is not the Job of the host to teach you
this stuff. You need to learn from sites such as http://www.htmldog.com
or even better buy a book.
But you can also read the large amount of stuff the is on sites such
as http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com
--
Regards Chad. http://freewebdesignonline.org
Jun 27 '08 #37

P: n/a
On 9 May, 15:47, Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_...@yahoo.comwrote:
This is one aspect of human nature I'm afraid I shall never
understand. I say "A" and even go on to specifically say that I'm not
saying "B" and still people will say that I'm saying "B"!! =(
It's because you're saying B, and you only _think_ that you're saying
A

Ditch this hosting company. Although do it gracefully, because they
even talked to you about an issue that no hosting company with any
sense would even answer the phone over - _YOUR_ script bugs.

Secondly, find a basic HTML tutorial ("Head First HTML with CSS &
XHTML", as a recommendation), or else contract out the development
work. I doubt you can afford to waste "three days" or whatever over
simple beginner's errors like this one.
Jun 27 '08 #38

P: n/a
Prisoner at War wrote:
On May 11, 3:53 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.netwrote:
>>
That's what you don't get. IT IS ALL ABOUT JAVASCRIPT! Your javascript
IS NOT FINE.

Huh??? What was wrong with my JavaScript??

Here, take a look at it: http://www.ego-management.org/test.html and
tell me what's wrong with

<img name="dog" id="dog" src="image-files/awww4.png"
onmouseover="document.getElementById('dog').src='i mage-files/
awww.gif';" onmouseout="document.getElementById('dog').src='im age-
files/awww4.png';">
>You are asking them to do this.

I don't know how you say that. I'm not asking them about code that
doesn't work -- "gee, can you help me with this code, I'm trying to
get it to do 'x' and it keeps doing 'y'" -- I'm asking them why **code
that works** on my end **doesn't on theirs** even though **all
necessary files** have been uploaded.

I just don't understand how you keep insisting that I'm asking for
programming help when most emphatically I am not. It's like you buy a
car and when you get home it stops working and the dealership tells
you, "sorry, we don't give driving lessons"...total non sequitur....
>Which is JAVASCRIPT.

NO -- it's not about the JavaScript, it's about their servers not
seeing a relative file path when an image-swap is attempted. The
issue is how their server handles relative and absolute file paths.
It's got nothing to do with JavaScript.

Honestly, are you one of them SBI! Rapid Response Group cyber-
militiamen? They send those people around rebutting negative SBI!
reviews, and you're just insisting on "JavaScript" when **even SBI!**
now admits it's not about "JavaScript" but "just how SBI! works"....
>The only programming bug is between your hears.

That's "ears" -- or did your mother not upload the firmware update?
>The problem is NOT with them.

Ah, despite their stipulation that absolute path names must be used in
the case of an image-swap, but *only* in the case of an image-swap,
the problem is "not with them."

Wow, who's your webhost, BTW? Wouldn't happen to be SBI! would it?

I'm new to all this so maybe it's very common or at least not unusual
for webhosts to demand that perfectly valid code be tweaked a little
to work on their servers -- I don't know -- but that's the only case
where "the problem [would not be] with them"....
>That's right. Troubleshooting your code IS NOT THEIR JOB.

But I'm not asking them to troubleshoot my code. Why do you insist on
continuing to grossly misrepresent the situation?
>Not if it's out of gas, it isn't.

But it's not out of gas. The tires aren't flat. And it isn't upside
down at the bottom of a thousand-foot cliff.
>But a more accurate comparison. If your car doesn't run, it it the
responsibility of the lot where you parked your car to tell you why it
isn't running?

Yes, that's why they have lemon laws.

You know, I used to be amazed that this country, with its car culture,
could have gone through *decades* without any lemon laws...until now,
when I consider that people like you for some reason think consumers
have very limited rights.
> No. It's their job to paint the lines, fill the
potholes and plow the snow in the winter - so you have a place to park.

That's a MUCH better comparison.

Ah, yes, sarcasm...the response of the intellectually lazy.
>Which means you got someone sympathetic with you.

Ah, I see: when they tried to ignore me, they were well within their
rights. Now that they acknowledge my problem, they're doing me a
favor.

Reminds me a bit of people who like to say "all glory be to God" but
claim that war and famine and disease are not the responsibility of an
all-loving all-powerful all-knowing God.

Honestly, are you from the SBI! Rapid Response Group, sent by the
company to rebut me? 'Cause you're not doing a good job of it, man.
>Yea, it seems it's hard for you to behave intelligently.

Ah, you with your ad hominem attacks is the epitome of evolutionary
success, whereas my questions about a service I paid $300 for that
can't even handle a standard image-swap is my behaving
unintelligently....

Jerry Stuckle, I don't know why you feel so antagonistic towards me,
but you are totally wrong in your behavior and your logic.
>Not at all. I think they acted mostly appropriately - at least until
the third rep.

Jerry, it doesn't matter what you think at this point -- you've
demonstrated that you're just not a reasonable person.
>Fine. Just don't come back here whining about more problems. Quire
frankly, no one here gives a damn.

Which is why you've taken the time to make a fool out of yourself,
showing everyone how illogical and ill-behaved you are over something
that has nothing to do with you.
>Absolute paths are generally the best way to go when referencing images.

Their instructions specifically stated to use *relative* paths. But
of course you choose to ignore that, while blaming me for being
puzzled over their system.
>But you've already proven you're too thick-headed to understand that.

Too thick-headed?? I'm not the one angry over nothing like you,
Jerry.
>--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstuck...@attglobal.net
==================

I suggest you find another line of work. You are obviously too dense to
understand what it takes to be a web developer.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attglobal.net
==================

Jun 27 '08 #39

P: n/a
Prisoner at War wrote:
<img name="dog" id="dog" src="http://www.ego-management.org/image-
files/awww4.png" alt="moo" title="meow"
onmouseover="document.getElementById('dog').src='i mage-files/
awww.gif';" onmouseout="document.getElementById('dog').src='im age-
files/awww4.png';">

They used an absolute file path in the first src attribute. Somehow
that got it to work (http://www.ego-management.org/test.html) --
though the other two src attributes remain relative, as I'd had them
originally.

Just what is your problem, Jerry Stuckle? Why do you insist on
proving yourself a liar??

Come on, come out with -- are you an SBI! affiliate? Work for them?
Or just another SBI! cult-member, with their Rapid Response Group of
cyber-militiamen?? I'm serious. You have a personal animus here
that's way beyond the facts at hand.

You have an ulterior motive in using personal attacks against me over
-- what, a customer service issue!
On May 11, 3:54 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.netwrote:
>>
Nope. Nothing I've seen indicates they are changing the javascript.
And if they were, he could easily look at it in his browser source.

Rather, he's blowing smoke in a vain attempt to cover his incompetence.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstuck...@attglobal.net
==================

I have never even heard of SBI! until you came on board. But you are
obviously too dense to understand simple English. I'm not the only one
who has told you what you're expecting is not their job.

I suggest you find another line of work.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attglobal.net
==================

Jun 27 '08 #40

P: n/a
Prisoner at War wrote:
On May 11, 1:21 pm, Sherman Pendley <spamt...@dot-app.orgwrote:
>>
I think you've missed a key difference here. They're not just bare hosting.
He publishes his pages through a CMS they've written, that "optimizes" his
pages for search engines. They're modifying his pages, and he's asking them
about the JS they're adding - do you still think they're not obliged to
answer him?

More to the point: they didn't add to my JavaScript until I brought
the image-swap mystery to their attention.

Indeed, this almost certainly has nothing to do with JavaScript, it
now turns out! It's about how their servers "see" a file when that
file is used as part of an image-swap...apparently, when called as an
image-swap, image files must use absolute paths or else the server
doesn't see them. Sounds like a programming bug to me, but they don't
want to declare it one -- and thus assume responsibility for a minor
matter, so it's simply up to me to deal with how they are.

My only fear is that down the road there should be many more little
oddities like this...already they don't allow me to use .ani or .cur
files, which are the only formats which MSIE 7 would utilize for
custom cursor graphics...no idea why, but they don't and that's that.

Not only do they sound like any other company out there with that kind
of an attitude, but they are in fact somewhat less than other webhosts
in having bizarre little oddities like this image-swap business.

I'm very sad to leave them, as they had been such an interesting
resource for me -- yes, *resource* -- but I really don't want to deal
with any more weird little "surprises" down the road, so I'm going to
cancel my subscription...I hope there aren't any weird surprises with
that as well! Though I shouldn't be too surprised if there were...I
can't find any cancellation info on their website! I'm going to have
to ask customer/tech support again....
>sherm--

--
My blog:http://shermspace.blogspot.com
Cocoa programming in Perl:http://camelbones.sourceforge.net

No, it's all about how you can't understand basic programming.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attglobal.net
==================

Jun 27 '08 #41

P: n/a
On 11 May, 03:29, Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_...@yahoo.comwrote:
http://www.ego-management.org/test.html
The rollover image file is 100k, which isn't small.

Now AFAICS, this works, but not well. It does roll-over, but it takes
a long time about doing so. So I think your problem could be as simple
as poor response from their server, coupled with a fairly large image.

First of all, rollovers look naff. If you want a site that looks like
1997, just go over the top with cutesy rollovers.

In terms of getting them to work, then do it with CSS (in general).
This works. It generally works better than JavaScript too. You'll have
to use <aall over the place to keep IE happy, and you can't do it
for foreground images, so it won't print well either.

If you do it with JS, then pre-load the rollover images when the page
is loaded. That way the user doesn't have to wait when they first roll-
over.
Jun 27 '08 #42

P: n/a
On May 12, 4:23 am, Chaddy2222 <spamlovermailbox-
sicur...@yahoo.com.auwrote:
>

Well as for ServerGrade. Just try them out. Have a look through the
site if you have not done so already though.
But as for learning you might not be able to learn much from the web
host because as Jerry said it is not the Job of the host to teach you
this stuff.
Jerry has no idea what he's talking about. I wasn't asking for help
with JavaScript; I was asking why they didn't seem to support
JavaScript since the code worked on my end but not on theirs. Big
difference, but for some reason the distinction remains lost on him.

As for my "learning with SBI!" comment, learning indeed is what SBI!
purports to do; as a matter of fact, one of their sales pages lists
colleges and universities using them for e-commerce instruction,
fairly famous places like the University of Arizona and even The
Citadel!
You need to learn from sites such ashttp://www.htmldog.com
or even better buy a book.
But you can also read the large amount of stuff the is on sites such
ashttp://www.webpagesthatsuck.com
LOL, yeah, I came across that last one! But thanks for the refs; yes,
I was hoping that SBI! would be a "centralized place" where I could
learn this stuff (not necessarily "all" of it but a lot, certainly --
and I suppose I have, though I should have liked more), but it looks
like it's back to just googling the web and tickling the library
books!
--
Regards Chad.http://freewebdesignonline.org
Jun 27 '08 #43

P: n/a

Just admit that you were angry over nothing, Jerry. Just admit that
you're wrong. As a matter of fact, take an anger-management course
before you decide to make a fool out of yourself again.

Usenet is not a pissing contest. If you can't help, don't hinder,
either.
On May 12, 12:50 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.netwrote:
>

I suggest you find another line of work. You are obviously too dense to
understand what it takes to be a web developer.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstuck...@attglobal.net
==================
Jun 27 '08 #44

P: n/a

Neither am I the only one to tell you that I'm not expecting
programming help from them. I'm asking why a script that runs on my
end doesn't on theirs, when all necessary files have been uploaded.

I'm sorry you can't comprehend the distinction, but then again you
seem to have no notion of "responsibility" either -- such as, your
responsibility to behave responsibly and not engage in silly ad
hominem diatribe.

I would wonder what you enjoy so much about insulting someone in the
midst of a customer service issue, but it's clear now that your
neurosis speaks for itself.
On May 12, 12:51 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.netwrote:
>

I have never even heard of SBI! until you came on board. But you are
obviously too dense to understand simple English. I'm not the only one
who has told you what you're expecting is not their job.

I suggest you find another line of work.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstuck...@attglobal.net
==================
Jun 27 '08 #45

P: n/a

For all your accusations of an error in my simple image-swap code,
you've yet to point out exactly what the problem was, despite repeated
challenges to do so.

On May 12, 12:52 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attglobal.netwrote:
>

No, it's all about how you can't understand basic programming.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstuck...@attglobal.net
==================
Jun 27 '08 #46

P: n/a
Prisoner at War wrote:
On May 12, 4:23 am, Chaddy2222 <spamlovermailbox-
sicur...@yahoo.com.auwrote:
>>
Well as for ServerGrade. Just try them out. Have a look through the
site if you have not done so already though.
But as for learning you might not be able to learn much from the web
host because as Jerry said it is not the Job of the host to teach you
this stuff.

Jerry has no idea what he's talking about. I wasn't asking for help
with JavaScript; I was asking why they didn't seem to support
JavaScript since the code worked on my end but not on theirs. Big
difference, but for some reason the distinction remains lost on him.
If it is client-side JavaScript the webserver has nothing to do with it,
other than properly server the content type for external JS files.
Client-side JavaScript is processed within the browser. Your JavaScript
problems have nothing to do with your hosting company.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
Jun 27 '08 #47

P: n/a
On May 12, 11:53 am, Andy Dingley <ding...@codesmiths.comwrote:
>

It's because you're saying B, and you only _think_ that you're saying
A
Well, how was I saying "A," then?

From the get-go I've said that my code works perfectly on my end. Yet
it doesn't on theirs. Is it asking them for "programming help" if
perfect programming doesn't work with them? Or is it not, as I keep
saying, simply asking them why they don't support standard code?

And as it turns out, they say the issue is having to use an absolute
path name when attempting an image-swap. That's got nothing to do
with "programming" at all. For some reason, their CMS just won't
accept relative file paths when an image-swap is involved.

Now that's a figgin' **B*U*G** but human nature loves to blame the
victim and so there's the tendency to blame my "programming" -- even
though it's got nothing to do with programming, but simply how their
CMS sees files!
Ditch this hosting company. Although do it gracefully, because they
even talked to you about an issue that no hosting company with any
sense would even answer the phone over - _YOUR_ script bugs.
Repeating a lie doesn't make it true -- though, yes, it's worked for
Goebbels and Stalin and Madison Avenue.

Now where's my script bugs, please? No one's pointed it out in all
this time. It's another curious property of human nature that people
should be so eager to cast blame but cannot be bothered to point out
what the alleged error is supposed to be.
Secondly, find a basic HTML tutorial ("Head First HTML with CSS &
XHTML", as a recommendation),
Already got it! Very nice book, I really dig it -- though curiously
it's in color whereas the later-issued "Head First JavaScript"
isn't....
or else contract out the development
work. I doubt you can afford to waste "three days" or whatever over
simple beginner's errors like this one.
Yeah, and what was that "simple beginner's error," exactly?

Why do you people keep saying there's an error and yet can't be
bothered to point it out??

Jun 27 '08 #48

P: n/a
On May 12, 1:43 pm, Andy Dingley <ding...@codesmiths.comwrote:
>

The rollover image file is 100k, which isn't small.
You know, I was wondering about that...with DSL and whatnot these
days, what's the general consensus on file sizes? How much ought a
single webpage to weigh? (Say, in terms of text-to-kilobyte
proportions or some-such.) How big should "minor" graphics be? How
small should "main" pictures be? Etc.
Now AFAICS, this works, but not well. It does roll-over, but it takes
a long time about doing so.
Well, I could preload the image -- but test.html was created
specifically to eliminate all other possible factors (you see it's a
very simple <html><head><title></title></head><body><img /></body></
htmlof a page).
So I think your problem could be as simple
as poor response from their server, coupled with a fairly large image.
Hmmm, their server choking over a 100K image??

Actually, I don't know if you've been following the other posts in
this thread, but I've announced several times now that their tech
support has finally resolved the problem: they need the first scr
attribute in the <imgof an image-swap to be in *absolute* file path
format!!

Strange as that is, they themselves did not know this (it took 'em two
weeks to diagnose, after all) -- as if I'm the only one since the
company's founding in 1997 to have ever attempted an image-swap?!?!?
First of all, rollovers look naff. If you want a site that looks like
1997, just go over the top with cutesy rollovers.
I know, I know...but it's not over-the-top, really it's not. I know
they have a bad rep worse than plaid suits, but hey...the thing about
fashion is that it's always changing -- and coming around again.
Visit that domain again next year and you won't mind it too much on
that account!
In terms of getting them to work, then do it with CSS (in general).
Yeah, I just saw that on like page 200-something of Simon Collison's
book. Cool! But his particular technique requires a bit of work in
an image editor first, to make sure the image is set up right to
effect a purely CSS image-swap....
This works. It generally works better than JavaScript too. You'll have
to use <aall over the place to keep IE happy, and you can't do it
for foreground images, so it won't print well either.
Hmm, sounds like you have another CSS image-swap technique in mind
than what Simon Collison's book details??
If you do it with JS, then pre-load the rollover images when the page
is loaded. That way the user doesn't have to wait when they first roll-
over.
Yes, I'll be preloading it for sure. Again, just wanted to simplify
things for tech support to diagnose.
Jun 27 '08 #49

P: n/a
On Mon, 12 May 2008 13:53:24 -0700 (PDT), Prisoner at War
<pr*************@yahoo.comwrote:
I've announced several times now that their tech
support has finally resolved the problem: they need the first scr
attribute in the <imgof an image-swap to be in *absolute* file path
format!!
Announce it again, it'll still be wrong.

That is _not_ the problem, The amount of perverse mis-configuration
they'd have to do to achieve this is beyond a host dumb enough to get
involved in fixing users' content for them.
Jun 27 '08 #50

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