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Reset checkbutton problem

P: n/a
Hi.
I noticed that <input type="reset"actually don't enable checkbutton
which are checked by default after they have been disabled by
javascript. It's a bug?
Jan 16 '08 #1
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16 Replies


P: n/a
Giovanni D'Ascola ha scritto:
Hi.
I noticed that <input type="reset"actually don't enable checkbutton
which are checked by default after they have been disabled by
javascript. It's a bug?
The browser is Mozilla Firefox.
Jan 16 '08 #2

P: n/a
On Jan 16, 2:20 pm, Giovanni D'Ascola <giovanni.dasc...@gmail.cm>
wrote:
Giovanni D'Ascola ha scritto:Hi.
I noticed that <input type="reset"actually don't enable checkbutton
which are checked by default after they have been disabled by
javascript. It's a bug?

The browser is Mozilla Firefox.
This behaviour is exhibited by IE6 too... Both are NOT reseting the
value of disabled attribute.
Jan 16 '08 #3

P: n/a
On Jan 16, 9:10*am, Giovanni D'Ascola <giovanni.dasc...@gmail.cm>
wrote:
But an <input type="text"in the same form is enabled by the reset
button after it has been disabled by javascript. Why?
Are you sure? You must have an error somewhere. Can you post some of
the code or a link?
Jan 16 '08 #4

P: n/a
On Jan 16, 10:07*am, GArlington <garling...@tiscali.co.ukwrote:
On Jan 16, 2:20 pm, Giovanni D'Ascola <giovanni.dasc...@gmail.cm>
wrote:
Giovanni D'Ascola ha scritto:Hi.
I noticed that <input type="reset"actually don't enable checkbutton
which are checked by default after they have been disabled by
javascript. It's a bug?
The browser is Mozilla Firefox.

This behaviour is exhibited by IE6 too... Both are NOT reseting the
value of disabled attribute.
Another good reason to forget about reset buttons. They are worse
than useless.
Jan 16 '08 #5

P: n/a
Giovanni D'Ascola wrote:
Doug Gunnoe ha scritto:
>[...] Giovanni D'Ascola [...] wrote:
>>But an <input type="text"in the same form is enabled by the reset
button after it has been disabled by javascript. Why?
Are you sure? You must have an error somewhere. Can you post some of
the code or a link?
Yes, i'm sure: the reset button enables <input type="text"but not
<input type="checkbox">

The html code:
[...]
And now the *legible* variant, please.
PointedEars
Jan 16 '08 #6

P: n/a
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn ha scritto:
Giovanni D'Ascola wrote:
>Doug Gunnoe ha scritto:
>>[...] Giovanni D'Ascola [...] wrote:
But an <input type="text"in the same form is enabled by the reset
button after it has been disabled by javascript. Why?
Are you sure? You must have an error somewhere. Can you post some of
the code or a link?
Yes, i'm sure: the reset button enables <input type="text"but not
<input type="checkbox">

The html code:
[...]

And now the *legible* variant, please.
PointedEars
I think Mozilla Thunderbird will never show you a legible variant. Sorry.
Jan 16 '08 #7

P: n/a
Giovanni D'Ascola wrote:
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn ha scritto:
>Giovanni D'Ascola wrote:
>>Doug Gunnoe ha scritto:
[...] Giovanni D'Ascola [...] wrote:
But an <input type="text"in the same form is enabled by the reset
button after it has been disabled by javascript. Why?
Are you sure? You must have an error somewhere. Can you post some of
the code or a link?
Yes, i'm sure: the reset button enables <input type="text"but not
<input type="checkbox">

The html code:
[...]
And now the *legible* variant, please.
[...]
I think Mozilla Thunderbird will never show you a legible variant. Sorry.
Are you kidding? My newsreader works just fine, thank you. If you used
spaces for indentation instead of tabs, as recommended, it could also
display the source code properly, among several other newsreaders.
PointedEars, shaking his head
--
Prototype.js was written by people who don't know javascript for people
who don't know javascript. People who don't know javascript are not
the best source of advice on designing systems that use javascript.
-- Richard Cornford, cljs, <f8*******************@news.demon.co.uk>
Jan 16 '08 #8

P: n/a
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn said the following on 1/16/2008 1:51 PM:

<snip>
PointedEars, shaking his head
Don't shake it too hard, what little is in there might roll out.

--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/index.html
Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/
Jan 16 '08 #9

P: n/a
On Jan 17, 4:00 am, David Mark <dmark.cins...@gmail.comwrote:
On Jan 16, 10:07 am, GArlington <garling...@tiscali.co.ukwrote:
On Jan 16, 2:20 pm, Giovanni D'Ascola <giovanni.dasc...@gmail.cm>
wrote:
Giovanni D'Ascola ha scritto:Hi.
I noticed that <input type="reset"actually don't enable checkbutton
which are checked by default after they have been disabled by
javascript. It's a bug?
The browser is Mozilla Firefox.
This behaviour is exhibited by IE6 too... Both are NOT reseting the
value of disabled attribute.

Another good reason to forget about reset buttons. They are worse
than useless.
I don't think so - most forms should have a reset button, perhaps
labelled "Cancel", unless there is a very good reason not to have one.

If a script messes around with a form so that the reset button no
longer works correctly, that is the fault of the script, not the reset
button. It is quite reasonable for the OP to want to maintain a
consistent operation of the reset button.
--
Rob
Jan 16 '08 #10

P: n/a
RobG wrote:
On Jan 17, 4:00 am, David Mark <dmark.cins...@gmail.comwrote:
>On Jan 16, 10:07 am, GArlington <garling...@tiscali.co.ukwrote:
>>On Jan 16, 2:20 pm, Giovanni D'Ascola <giovanni.dasc...@gmail.cm>
wrote:
Giovanni D'Ascola ha scritto:Hi.
I noticed that <input type="reset"actually don't enable checkbutton
which are checked by default after they have been disabled by
javascript. It's a bug?
The browser is Mozilla Firefox.
This behaviour is exhibited by IE6 too... Both are NOT reseting the
value of disabled attribute.
Another good reason to forget about reset buttons. They are worse
than useless.

I don't think so - most forms should have a reset button, perhaps
labelled "Cancel", unless there is a very good reason not to have one.
Would this suffice? http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20000416.html
PointedEars
--
realism: HTML 4.01 Strict
evangelism: XHTML 1.0 Strict
madness: XHTML 1.1 as application/xhtml+xml
-- Bjoern Hoehrmann
Jan 16 '08 #11

P: n/a
On Jan 16, 6:17*pm, RobG <rg...@iinet.net.auwrote:
On Jan 17, 4:00 am, David Mark <dmark.cins...@gmail.comwrote:


On Jan 16, 10:07 am, GArlington <garling...@tiscali.co.ukwrote:
On Jan 16, 2:20 pm, Giovanni D'Ascola <giovanni.dasc...@gmail.cm>
wrote:
Giovanni D'Ascola ha scritto:Hi.
I noticed that <input type="reset"actually don't enable checkbutton
which are checked by default after they have been disabled by
javascript. It's a bug?
The browser is Mozilla Firefox.
This behaviour is exhibited by IE6 too... Both are NOT reseting the
value of disabled attribute.
Another good reason to forget about reset buttons. *They are worse
than useless.

I don't think so - most forms should have a reset button, perhaps
Why? Of all of the dialogs I have ever designed (or seen for that
matter), I can't think of one that had a reset button.
labelled "Cancel", unless there is a very good reason not to have one.
Not Cancel. A cancel button is typically used to redirect back to the
page that initiated the dialog (or hide it if it was displayed via
Ajax.) I think Reset is the only option, unless the form is always
initially empty, in which case Clear would be appropriate.
>
If a script messes around with a form so that the reset button no
longer works correctly, that is the fault of the script, not the reset
It is the fault of browser developers if it fails to reset values of
disabled elements, though I don't think that a reset button should
have any effect on their disabled states (oddly enough it seems it
affects only some types of inputs.) If you must have a reset and you
dynamically disable elements, then you have to have a click handler on
the button to adjust the states accordingly.
button. *It is quite reasonable for the OP to want to maintain a
consistent operation of the reset button.
Certainly. The question is whether the application really needs a
reset button, especially considering the headaches that go along with
one.
Jan 16 '08 #12

P: n/a
On Jan 17, 9:26 am, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedE...@web.de>
wrote:
RobG wrote:
On Jan 17, 4:00 am, David Mark <dmark.cins...@gmail.comwrote:
On Jan 16, 10:07 am, GArlington <garling...@tiscali.co.ukwrote:
On Jan 16, 2:20 pm, Giovanni D'Ascola <giovanni.dasc...@gmail.cm>
wrote:
Giovanni D'Ascola ha scritto:Hi.
I noticed that <input type="reset"actually don't enable checkbutton
which are checked by default after they have been disabled by
javascript. It's a bug?
The browser is Mozilla Firefox.
This behaviour is exhibited by IE6 too... Both are NOT reseting the
value of disabled attribute.
Another good reason to forget about reset buttons. They are worse
than useless.
I don't think so - most forms should have a reset button, perhaps
labelled "Cancel", unless there is a very good reason not to have one.

Would this suffice? http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20000416.html
No.

That is one person's opinion and is based on a number of spurious
assertions from a particular point of view. Why should I take any
notice of someone who states "The Web is not an application
environment". Tell that to Google, Facebook, eBay, Amazon, et al.

The article is based on rhetorical questions like:

"Reset clears away the user's input on a Web form, but why would
people want to do that?"

Perhaps because that is what users want to do? It is then suggested
that the back button should be used to reset a form - how wonderfully
intuitive - and that scripted undo buttons should be used for all user
input.

I think the author has a particular view of forms on the web that is
inconsistent with how they are actually used, and that his suggested
improvements are actually backward steps that make life more difficult
for users and consistent behaviour more problematic.
--
Rob
Jan 16 '08 #13

P: n/a
RobG wrote:
On Jan 17, 9:26 am, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedE...@web.de>
wrote:
>RobG wrote:
>>On Jan 17, 4:00 am, David Mark <dmark.cins...@gmail.comwrote:
On Jan 16, 10:07 am, GArlington <garling...@tiscali.co.ukwrote:
On Jan 16, 2:20 pm, Giovanni D'Ascola <giovanni.dasc...@gmail.cm>
wrote:
>Giovanni D'Ascola ha scritto:Hi.
>>I noticed that <input type="reset"actually don't enable checkbutton
>>which are checked by default after they have been disabled by
>>javascript. It's a bug?
>The browser is Mozilla Firefox.
This behaviour is exhibited by IE6 too... Both are NOT reseting the
value of disabled attribute.
Another good reason to forget about reset buttons. They are worse
than useless.
I don't think so - most forms should have a reset button, perhaps
labelled "Cancel", unless there is a very good reason not to have one.
Would this suffice? http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20000416.html

No.

That is one person's opinion and is based on a number of spurious
assertions from a particular point of view. [...]
You might want to check the background of the author before making *your*
spurious assertions. Jakob Nielsen certainly is not just anyone.
PointedEars
--
Prototype.js was written by people who don't know javascript for people
who don't know javascript. People who don't know javascript are not
the best source of advice on designing systems that use javascript.
-- Richard Cornford, cljs, <f8*******************@news.demon.co.uk>
Jan 17 '08 #14

P: n/a
David Mark ha scritto:
On Jan 16, 6:17 pm, RobG <rg...@iinet.net.auwrote:
>On Jan 17, 4:00 am, David Mark <dmark.cins...@gmail.comwrote:


>>On Jan 16, 10:07 am, GArlington <garling...@tiscali.co.ukwrote:
On Jan 16, 2:20 pm, Giovanni D'Ascola <giovanni.dasc...@gmail.cm>
wrote:
Giovanni D'Ascola ha scritto:Hi.
>I noticed that <input type="reset"actually don't enable checkbutton
>which are checked by default after they have been disabled by
>javascript. It's a bug?
The browser is Mozilla Firefox.
This behaviour is exhibited by IE6 too... Both are NOT reseting the
value of disabled attribute.
Another good reason to forget about reset buttons. They are worse
than useless.
I don't think so - most forms should have a reset button, perhaps

Why? Of all of the dialogs I have ever designed (or seen for that
matter), I can't think of one that had a reset button.
>labelled "Cancel", unless there is a very good reason not to have one.

Not Cancel. A cancel button is typically used to redirect back to the
page that initiated the dialog (or hide it if it was displayed via
Ajax.) I think Reset is the only option, unless the form is always
initially empty, in which case Clear would be appropriate.
>If a script messes around with a form so that the reset button no
longer works correctly, that is the fault of the script, not the reset

It is the fault of browser developers if it fails to reset values of
disabled elements, though I don't think that a reset button should
have any effect on their disabled states (oddly enough it seems it
affects only some types of inputs.) If you must have a reset and you
dynamically disable elements, then you have to have a click handler on
the button to adjust the states accordingly.
>button. It is quite reasonable for the OP to want to maintain a
consistent operation of the reset button.

Certainly. The question is whether the application really needs a
reset button, especially considering the headaches that go along with
one.
The reset button, imho, is useful when a form is filled with a large
number of default values. If you modify them, then you can restore them
simply by clicking on the reset button.
Jan 17 '08 #15

P: n/a
On Jan 17, 10:01 am, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedE...@web.de>
wrote:
RobG wrote:
On Jan 17, 9:26 am, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedE...@web.de>
wrote:
RobG wrote:
On Jan 17, 4:00 am, David Mark <dmark.cins...@gmail.comwrote:
On Jan 16, 10:07 am, GArlington <garling...@tiscali.co.ukwrote:
On Jan 16, 2:20 pm, Giovanni D'Ascola <giovanni.dasc...@gmail.cm>
wrote:
Giovanni D'Ascola ha scritto:Hi.
>I noticed that <input type="reset"actually don't enable checkbutton
>which are checked by default after they have been disabled by
>javascript. It's a bug?
The browser is Mozilla Firefox.
This behaviour is exhibited by IE6 too... Both are NOT reseting the
value of disabled attribute.
Another good reason to forget about reset buttons. They are worse
than useless.
I don't think so - most forms should have a reset button, perhaps
labelled "Cancel", unless there is a very good reason not to have one.
Would this suffice? http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20000416.html
No.
That is one person's opinion and is based on a number of spurious
assertions from a particular point of view. [...]

You might want to check the background of the author before making *your*
spurious assertions. Jakob Nielsen certainly is not just anyone.
He certainly isn't, but for the article to be taken at anything other
than face value, references need to be provided where assertions are
made.

Statements like:

"The Web is characterized by frequent movement between pages and users
rarely encounter the same form twice."

indicate that Jakob's context is a general user on the web, but there
are many other contexts - e.g. business applications (regardless of
whether it is web-based or not). In that case, users frequently visit
the same form - some will nearly always have data already in them and
others only sometimes. It is not reasonable to characterise the
entire gamut of user interface design from a single perspective.

If you wish to use Jakob's work to support your case (which is quite
reasonable) you should find an article written in an appropriate
context, or make your own arguments based on references to his work.
--
Rob
Jan 17 '08 #16

P: n/a
On Jan 16, 7:08*pm, Giovanni D'Ascola <giovanni.dasc...@gmail.cm>
wrote:
David Mark ha scritto:
On Jan 16, 6:17 pm, RobG <rg...@iinet.net.auwrote:
On Jan 17, 4:00 am, David Mark <dmark.cins...@gmail.comwrote:
>On Jan 16, 10:07 am, GArlington <garling...@tiscali.co.ukwrote:
On Jan 16, 2:20 pm, Giovanni D'Ascola <giovanni.dasc...@gmail.cm>
wrote:
Giovanni D'Ascola ha scritto:Hi.
I noticed that <input type="reset"actually don't enable checkbutton
which are checked by default after they have been disabled by
javascript. It's a bug?
The browser is Mozilla Firefox.
This behaviour is exhibited by IE6 too... Both are NOT reseting the
value of disabled attribute.
Another good reason to forget about reset buttons. *They are worse
than useless.
I don't think so - most forms should have a reset button, perhaps
Why? *Of all of the dialogs I have ever designed (or seen for that
matter), I can't think of one that had a reset button.
labelled "Cancel", unless there is a very good reason not to have one.
Not Cancel. *A cancel button is typically used to redirect back to the
page that initiated the dialog (or hide it if it was displayed via
Ajax.) *I think Reset is the only option, unless the form is always
initially empty, in which case Clear would be appropriate.
If a script messes around with a form so that the reset button no
longer works correctly, that is the fault of the script, not the reset
It is the fault of browser developers if it fails to reset values of
disabled elements, though I don't think that a reset button should
have any effect on their disabled states (oddly enough it seems it
affects only some types of inputs.) *If you must have a reset and you
dynamically disable elements, then you have to have a click handler on
the button to adjust the states accordingly.
button. *It is quite reasonable for the OP to want to maintain a
consistent operation of the reset button.
Certainly. *The question is whether the application really needs a
reset button, especially considering the headaches that go along with
one.

The reset button, imho, is useful when a form is filled with a large
number of default values. If you modify them, then you can restore them
simply by clicking on the reset button.
What would be the point of that? If it is a form that edits
previously entered data, then it would reset to whatever was entered
by the user during the last editing session. It is a sort of
primitive (and destructive) undo.

For entering new data, it is clearly worthless.
Jan 17 '08 #17

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