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Checking for daylight saving

 P: n/a I was investigating a function to determine whether daylight saving was being observed on a particular date (given the platform's regional settings) and came across a suggestion at merlyn.com to test the time zone offset on a variety of dates to see if it changes. Based on that, I developed the following checkDST() function which, as far as I can tell, should be sufficient. It checks either the date passed to it or the current date with 3 other dates, each 3 months further into the future. If any of their time zones differs from the epoch then either: true - daylight saving is being observed on the date, or false - daylight saving is observed but not on the date are returned. If no difference is found, undefined is returned. I explicitly return undefined as a matter of style rather than let the loop peter out and return undefined by default. Can anyone suggest whether the algorithm is appropriate and if my implementation is OK? It will fail if there are changes to time zone offsets that are not related to daylight saving, and if changes occur for a period of less than 3 months and fall within the dates tested. As far as I know, there isn't anywhere that does that, but they might be accommodated by an "acceptable range" test (say allow changes of up to 5 minutes) and checking for symmetry - if the time zone is different in x months time, check if it was also different (12 - x) months ago, and check if it differed by the same amount taking into consideration the acceptable range. function checkDST(d) { d = d || new Date(); var x = new Date(d); var dt = d.getTimezoneOffset(); var xt; for (var i=0; i<3; i++) { x.setMonth(x.getMonth() + 3) xt = x.getTimezoneOffset(); if (dt != xt) { return dt < xt; } } return undefined; } function showDST(){ var x = isDST(new Date()); var msg; if (x === true) { msg = 'Daylight saving is observed here ' + 'and is in force.'; } else if (x === false) { msg = 'Daylight saving is observed here, ' + 'but not at the moment.'; } else { msg = 'Daylight saving is not observed here at all.' } alert(x + ': ' + msg); } showDST(); -- Rob Dec 20 '07 #1
27 Replies

 P: n/a RobG said the following on 12/20/2007 1:27 AM: function checkDST(d) { function showDST(){ var x = isDST(new Date()); isDST is not defined. FF2.0 Object Expected. IE7. Long day today? -- Randy Chance Favors The Prepared Mind comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/index.html Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/ Dec 20 '07 #2

 P: n/a On Dec 20, 4:45 pm, Randy Webb function checkDST(d) { function showDST(){ var x = isDST(new Date()); That should of course be: var x = checkDST(new Date()); > isDST is not defined. FF2.0 Object Expected. IE7. Long day today? :-x bugger... I changed the name of the function just before posting - does it work for you? I can't mess with my regional settings for a little while yet, I'll test it more when I can. -- Rob Dec 20 '07 #3

 P: n/a RobG said the following on 12/20/2007 2:01 AM: On Dec 20, 4:45 pm, Randy Webb RobG said the following on 12/20/2007 1:27 AM: >>function checkDST(d) { >>function showDST(){ var x = isDST(new Date()); That should of course be: var x = checkDST(new Date()); I changed the name of the function. >isDST is not defined. FF2.0Object Expected. IE7.Long day today? :-x bugger... I changed the name of the function just before posting - does it work for you? I can't mess with my regional settings for a little while yet, I'll test it more when I can. I tested it for about 5 minutes fooling with the date on my computer. I never did change any time zone settings. I can only tell you that it got it right for my location. -- Randy Chance Favors The Prepared Mind comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/index.html Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/ Dec 20 '07 #4

 P: n/a Response to Randy Webb : I tested it for about 5 minutes fooling with the date on my computer. I never did change any time zone settings. I can only tell you that it got it right for my location. I don't suppose something like this would help? ....most likely not, but it came to mind. -- -Lost Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am kidding. No I am not. Dec 20 '07 #5

 P: n/a -Lost said the following on 12/20/2007 3:41 AM: Response to Randy Webb : >I tested it for about 5 minutes fooling with the date on mycomputer. I never did change any time zone settings. I can onlytell you that it got it right for my location. I don't suppose something like this would help? ...most likely not, but it came to mind. Not for what Rob is wanting to test. The only way to know if it is getting it correct in different time zones is to change the time zone settings. It is just as trivial to do that for testing as changing the time/date. I just didn't do it when I was testing. Right click the clock on the taskbar in Windows>Adjust Date and Time>Time Zone tab. Change it, apply it, test it, repeat. There is also a setting there for automatically changing the time for DST. With it unchecked, the test gives incorrect results for me when testing my own time zone. "undefined: Daylight saving is not observed here at all. " And that is in Eastern Standard Time Zone in the US. -- Randy Chance Favors The Prepared Mind comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/index.html Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/ Dec 20 '07 #6

 P: n/a Randy Webb wrote on 20 dec 2007 in comp.lang.javascript: Not for what Rob is wanting to test. The only way to know if it is getting it correct in different time zones is to change the time zone settings. It is just as trivial to do that for testing as changing the time/date. I just didn't do it when I was testing. Right click the clock on the taskbar in Windows>Adjust Date and Time>Time Zone tab. Change it, apply it, test it, repeat. There is also a setting there for automatically changing the time for DST. With it unchecked, the test gives incorrect results for me when testing my own time zone. "undefined: Daylight saving is not observed here at all. " And that is in Eastern Standard Time Zone in the US. This should work, IMHO: IE7 and Central European Time Zone tested. That such offset saves daylight is absolute nonsense, though it may save energy consumption. -- Evertjan. The Netherlands. (Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress) Dec 20 '07 #7

 P: n/a Evertjan. said the following on 12/20/2007 4:59 PM: Randy Webb wrote on 20 dec 2007 in comp.lang.javascript: >Not for what Rob is wanting to test. The only way to know if it isgetting it correct in different time zones is to change the time zonesettings. It is just as trivial to do that for testing as changing thetime/date. I just didn't do it when I was testing. Right click theclock on the taskbar in Windows>Adjust Date and Time>Time Zone tab.Change it, apply it, test it, repeat. There is also a setting therefor automatically changing the time for DST. With it unchecked, thetest gives incorrect results for me when testing my own time zone."undefined: Daylight saving is not observed here at all. "And that is in Eastern Standard Time Zone in the US. This should work, IMHO: IE7 and Central European Time Zone tested. It tells me I have a summertime offset in Northern hemisphere, but, it doesn't tell me whether I use Daylight Savings Time or not. No setting on the PC can either. Arizona, USA, is split on DST. Parts of the state use it and parts don't. Indiana was another state that just recently started using it. That such offset saves daylight is absolute nonsense, though it may save energy consumption. It doesn't "save daylight", it just changes the hours in the day when it is there. Personally, I wish they would just do away with the entire concept as it is a broken phenomenon now. -- Randy Chance Favors The Prepared Mind comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/index.html Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/ Dec 21 '07 #8

 P: n/a Response to Randy Webb : >That such offset saves daylight is absolute nonsense,though it may save energy consumption. It doesn't "save daylight", it just changes the hours in the day when it is there. Personally, I wish they would just do away with the entire concept as it is a broken phenomenon now. Same here. Halfway through the week (this past DST change) we kept wondering why no one updated their clocks and come to find out we were the dummies. Why in the world did Congress or whoever change that at the last moment anyway? -- -Lost Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am kidding. No I am not. Dec 21 '07 #9

 P: n/a Response to Randy Webb : You can get to it without going into the Control Panel but it changes it in the same place. Right click the clock on the Windows Taskbar>Adjust Date/Time. Or double-click. -- -Lost Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am kidding. No I am not. Dec 21 '07 #10

 P: n/a -Lost said the following on 12/20/2007 9:24 PM: Response to Randy Webb : >>That such offset saves daylight is absolute nonsense,though it may save energy consumption. It doesn't "save daylight", it just changes the hours in the daywhen it is there. Personally, I wish they would just do away withthe entire concept as it is a broken phenomenon now. Same here. Halfway through the week (this past DST change) we kept wondering why no one updated their clocks and come to find out we were the dummies. Why in the world did Congress or whoever change that at the last moment anyway?

 P: n/a Response to Randy Webb : >Why in the world did Congress or whoever change that at the lastmoment anyway?

 P: n/a Randy Webb wrote on 21 dec 2007 in comp.lang.javascript: -Lost said the following on 12/20/2007 9:24 PM: >Why in the world did Congress or whoever change that at the last momentanyway? What congress? Do you mean 'congress' in the sense of the Kamasutra and changing a stand of such congress at the last moment? Wouldn't that put you off, Lost?

 P: n/a Evertjan. said the following on 12/21/2007 3:43 AM: Randy Webb wrote on 21 dec 2007 in comp.lang.javascript: >-Lost said the following on 12/20/2007 9:24 PM: >>Why in the world did Congress or whoever change that at the last momentanyway? What congress? You have been reading too much JRS. Do you mean 'congress' in the sense of the Kamasutra and changing a stand of such congress at the last moment? Wouldn't that put you off, Lost? No, not Kamasutra, it was the World Congress of Politicians. >

 P: n/a Randy Webb wrote on 21 dec 2007 in comp.lang.javascript: It should. It has a setting to let Windows change the time for you. By law, in the USA, it always starts and ends on the same days every year, no matter what zone you are in in the USA, if you use it. That gives two nights that this offset is rippling though your continent, and must be terrible for large organisations like radio/tv. The European law switching at the same time across all timezones is slightly better. >Does the London local setting know about the "double summertime" ofWWII? No idea. In general, MS-windows zones surely cannot fill in the historical patchwork of summertime regions. points to an European viewpoint: Guess whose! -- Evertjan. The Netherlands. (Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress) Dec 21 '07 #15

 P: n/a In comp.lang.javascript message , Thu, 20 Dec 2007 14:15:01, Randy Webb Not for what Rob is wanting to test. The only way to know if it isgetting it correct in different time zones is to change the time zonesettings. But can one be certain, in Windows, that such a temporary change cannot possibly have a lasting adverse effect, such as but not limited to entries in calendar/diary software and limited-duration software that looks for time reversal or performing scheduled activity? It is just as trivial to do that for testing as changing thetime/date. I just didn't do it when I was testing. Right click theclock on the taskbar in Windows>Adjust Date and Time>Time Zone tab.Change it, apply it, test it, repeat. There is also a setting there forautomatically changing the time for DST. With it unchecked, the testgives incorrect results for me when testing my own time zone."undefined: Daylight saving is not observed here at all. "And that is in Eastern Standard Time Zone in the US. Well, if DST is turned off one must expect it not to be found. Obviously great care must be taken with the wording of such messages. -- (c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v6.05 IE 6. Web

 P: n/a Dr J R Stockton said the following on 12/21/2007 7:58 AM: In comp.lang.javascript message , Thu, 20 Dec 2007 14:15:01, Randy Webb Not for what Rob is wanting to test. The only way to know if it isgetting it correct in different time zones is to change the time zonesettings. But can one be certain, in Windows, that such a temporary change cannot possibly have a lasting adverse effect, such as but not limited to entries in calendar/diary software and limited-duration software that looks for time reversal or performing scheduled activity? Guess it would depend on how the software was doing the checks. I have never run into a problem temporarily changing my clock/TZ settings and then setting them back. But, I don't do anything but quick tests while they are changed. >It is just as trivial to do that for testing as changing thetime/date. I just didn't do it when I was testing. Right click theclock on the taskbar in Windows>Adjust Date and Time>Time Zone tab.Change it, apply it, test it, repeat. There is also a setting there forautomatically changing the time for DST. With it unchecked, the testgives incorrect results for me when testing my own time zone."undefined: Daylight saving is not observed here at all. "And that is in Eastern Standard Time Zone in the US. Well, if DST is turned off one must expect it not to be found. I didn't turn of DST, all I did was tell Windows not to automatically set my clock back. -- Randy Chance Favors The Prepared Mind comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/index.html Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/ Dec 21 '07 #17

 P: n/a Evertjan. wrote: Randy Webb wrote on 20 dec 2007 in comp.lang.javascript: >Not for what Rob is wanting to test. The only way to know if it isgetting it correct in different time zones is to change the time zonesettings.[snip] Ok - so you *do* all know this is a waste of time don't you? There is one and only one way to do it. You get the user to state explicitly what time zone they are in, then you check the *actual* date and time in that time zone (not the one on the PC - so you will need a remote time-server somewhere) and then you apply the rules in force in that specific time zone. And anyone who wants to do that in Javascript is completely insane! You have one - count them - *one* choice only. Find a way to ask the operating system and presume the operating system has the time zone details *and* rules set as the user wants them. Then check a remote time-server. Even then, it may not be correct because, of course, the user may choose to set his or her PC to - let's say - GMT because he likes to do amateur astronomy and it makes it easier. Dec 21 '07 #18

 P: n/a In comp.lang.javascript message , Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:49:47, Randy Webb -Lost said the following on 12/20/2007 9:24 PM: >Response to Randy Webb : >>>That such offset saves daylight is absolute nonsense,though it may save energy consumption.It doesn't "save daylight", it just changes the hours in the daywhen it is there. Personally, I wish they would just do away withthe entire concept as it is a broken phenomenon now. Same here. Halfway through the week (this past DST change) we keptwondering why no one updated their clocks and come to find out we werethe dummies. Why in the world did Congress or whoever change that at the lastmoment anyway? , where you can also find the exact words in a format similar to that of USG. Try putting congress daylight saving H.R.6 in an IE address bar and then using Go . Did you know that the next day on which a Congressional, but not a Presidential, election will be held in the USA will be (except maybe in Arizona and Hawaii) in Summer Time? -- (c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v6.05 IE 6. Web

 P: n/a In comp.lang.javascript message , Fri, 21 Dec 2007 05:22:22, Randy Webb Evertjan. said the following on 12/21/2007 3:33 AM: >Randy Webb wrote on 21 dec 2007 in comp.lang.javascript: >>>IE7 and Central European Time Zone tested.It tells me I have a summertime offset in Northern hemisphere, but, itdoesn't tell me whether I use Daylight Savings Time or not. No settingon the PC can either. Arizona, USA, is split on DST. Parts of thestate use it and parts don't. Indiana was another state that justrecently started using it. Do you mean if you are using summertime offset at present? No, whether the location I am in observes Daylight Savings Time. If youlook in Windows XP (not sure what other Win OS'es have it), in the Dateand Time Properties>Time Zone tab, there is an explicit setting forIndiana(East). That is because Indiana, USA did not use DST for a longtime. You won't find a setting for Arizona, USA, in that list. Yet,there are parts of Arizona that do, and parts that do not, use DaylightSavings Time. Yet, the Time Zone is the same whether they use it ornot. The OS has no way of knowing that. There is no way of telling the exact location, so in Arizona it cannot as supplied know whether the location has DST or not. That is why there's a checkbox in XP for turning it on & off. Windows, if MS does its job right (Win98 got it wrong) knows current UK Summer Time rules, and has checked the box in installation If I uncheck it, the machine will show UT (GMT) permanently, as it would if I set Reykjavik. >How would it be "even more terrible" if there were no such thing asDaylight Savings Time? >Does it know when this summertime concept started in each zone? It should. It does not; except that Vista can know of the most recent change, which *could* be when it was first used in a location (not a zone). Labrador and Chile are in the same time zone; but would use opposite Summer Time changes. It has a setting to let Windows change the time for you. By law, inthe USA, it always starts and ends on the same days every year, nomatter what zone you are in in the USA, if you use it. The same days? The dates vary, being 0-6 days before -03-14 &-11-07. They're (very probably) not even always the same ISO 8601 yyyy-Www-d (there will be 2 possible values for ww). >Does the London local setting know about the "double summertime" of WWII? It will not; and if it did Javascript would not be allowed to use that unless the system date was set back to WWII. -- (c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v6.05 IE 6. Web

 P: n/a In comp.lang.javascript message , Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:17:00, Evertjan. posted: >Randy Webb wrote on 21 dec 2007 in comp.lang.javascript: >It should. It has a setting to let Windows change the time for you. Bylaw, in the USA, it always starts and ends on the same days everyyear, no matter what zone you are in in the USA, if you use it. Canada is more liberal there; the provinces decide. AFAIK they've "always" used the US dates, but with some variation in time. >That gives two nights that this offset is rippling though your continent,and must be terrible for large organisations like radio/tv. AIUI, they have comparatively little of that sort of thing. However, the Russians, with 11(?) zones, know what to do; and likewise the Australians, if they ripple-change. There'll be problems when all of Russia joins the EU; either there'll be a break-in-system, or in Kamchatka they'll change clocks after Monday breakfast. -- (c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v6.05 MIME. Web " or "" (SonOfRFC1036) Dec 21 '07 #21

 P: n/a In comp.lang.javascript message , Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:59:05, Randy Webb Dr J R Stockton said the following on 12/20/2007 5:40 PM: >In comp.lang.javascript message , Wed, 19 Dec 2007 22:27:46, RobG>It checks either the date passed to it or the current date with 3other dates, each 3 months further into the future. Checking the date in question, and January 1st, and July 1st, shouldsuffice - unless someone does something silly with Summer Time. It doesn't take anything that naive to fool it. Simply telling my PCnot to change the time for me is enough to cause Rob's function to giveincorrect results. If you lie to your machine, you must be ready to receive lies back. Rob may need more subtle wording. >>Can anyone suggest whether the algorithm is appropriate and if myimplementation is OK? It will fail if there are changes to time zoneoffsets that are not related to daylight saving, and if changes occurfor a period of less than 3 months and fall within the dates tested. ISO/IEC 16262 requires that the CURRENT Summer Time rules areappliedfor ALL years. Most OSs only know one set of rules per location, butAIUI Vista knows up to 2 sets, and changes. US legislation, IIRC, changed the rules with effect from 2007-03-01(presumably local time; possibly DC time). Therefore, Randy et alshould have stopped running Javascript on pre-Vista PCs before2007-02-28 24:00 LCT, should have updated their systems, and notrestarted Javascript before 2007-03-01 00:00 LCT. What US legislation also does is make it a local decision as to whetherit is used or not. Witness Arizona in the USA. Yes, and that power did not change. I know of no US legislation on the date at which a location can change from one rule set to another, as (much of?) Indiana did. H.R.6 stipulated 2007-03-01, maybe without fullest consideration. >I don't know whether Vista does it right. Some systems, IIRC, using UNIX, get the OS to do date work thatJavascript ought to do; in that case, the wrong (by 16262) rules or zonemay be applied to non-current dates. I recall no provision for changing time zone at a location, otherthanby the Control Panel settings. You can get to it without going into the Control Panel but it changesit in the same place. Right click the clock on the WindowsTaskbar>Adjust Date/Time. Yes, but that's merely another route to the same settings. -- (c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v6.05 MIME. Web

 P: n/a Dr J R Stockton said the following on 12/21/2007 5:24 PM: In comp.lang.javascript message , Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:59:05, Randy Webb Dr J R Stockton said the following on 12/20/2007 5:40 PM: >>In comp.lang.javascript message , Wed, 19 Dec 2007 22:27:46, RobG>>It checks either the date passed to it or the current date with 3other dates, each 3 months further into the future. Checking the date in question, and January 1st, and July 1st, shouldsuffice - unless someone does something silly with Summer Time. It doesn't take anything that naive to fool it. Simply telling my PCnot to change the time for me is enough to cause Rob's function to giveincorrect results. If you lie to your machine, you must be ready to receive lies back. Rob may need more subtle wording. I didn't lie to my machine. I simply told it not to automatically change the time. I didn't tell it to ignore Daylight Savings Time. If the checkbox were labeled "Use Daylight Savings Time" then it would be more indicative of what the user wanted. I still wouldn't be lying to the machine though. -- Randy Chance Favors The Prepared Mind comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/index.html Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/ Dec 22 '07 #23

 P: n/a Dr J R Stockton wrote on 21 dec 2007 in comp.lang.javascript: >>That gives two nights that this offset is rippling though your continent,and must be terrible for large organisations like radio/tv. AIUI, they have comparatively little of that sort of thing. However, the Russians, with 11(?) zones, know what to do; and likewise the Australians, if they ripple-change. There'll be problems when all of Russia joins the EU; either there'll be a break-in-system, or in Kamchatka they'll change clocks after Monday breakfast. Not having to get out of bed is such cold places could be a bonus, someyears I did the same. What about Vladiwostok? -- Evertjan. The Netherlands. (Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress) Dec 22 '07 #24

 P: n/a In comp.lang.javascript message , Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:51:12, Randy Webb I didn't turn of DST, all I did was tell Windows not to automaticallyset my clock back. That is what the label said. It is not necessarily what it ought to have said. -- (c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v6.05 IE 6. Web

 P: n/a Dr J R Stockton said the following on 12/22/2007 12:27 PM: In comp.lang.javascript message , Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:51:12, Randy Webb I didn't turn of DST, all I did was tell Windows not to automaticallyset my clock back. That is what the label said. It is not necessarily what it ought to have said. And I agree with that. But, changing it is not lying to the machine. -- Randy Chance Favors The Prepared Mind comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/index.html Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/ Dec 22 '07 #26

 P: n/a Dr J R Stockton wrote on 22 dec 2007 in comp.lang.javascript: I occasionally, as you may have noticed, change pieces of my date code from local to UTC. I think, as you may have guessed, that JS Date()'s UTC support is a mess. It would have been better to have all methods have a attribute having them interact directly with the internal UTC date/time value of any Date() object. dateObj.getDate('UTC') in stead of dateObj.getUTCDate() etc. That way we could define functions, that would work both for local time as for UTC: function manipulateTimeDate(myDate,UTCorNot) { .....; .....; return myDate.getUTCDate(UTCorNot); }; var nrDate = manipulateTimeDate(thatDate); var UTCnrDate = manipulateTimeDate(thatDate,'UTC'); ==================================== btw, ever replied upon this in MS scripting 5.6? =========== dateObj.getVarDate() Remarks The required dateObj reference is a Date object. The getVarDate method is used when interacting with COM objects, ActiveX® objects or other objects that accept and return date values in VT_DATE format, such as Visual Basic and VBScript. The actual format is dependent on regional settings and should not be replied upon within JScript. ============ "replied upon" ?? MS-JS being unreplyable, MS seems to have a lot to answer for. -- Evertjan. The Netherlands. (Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress) Dec 23 '07 #27

 P: n/a In comp.lang.javascript message , Sun, 23 Dec 2007 08:51:54, Evertjan. posted: >Dr J R Stockton wrote on 22 dec 2007 in comp.lang.javascript: >I occasionally, as you may have noticed, change pieces of my date codefrom local to UTC. I think, as you may have guessed, that JS Date()'s UTC support is a mess.It would have been better to have all methods have a attributehaving them interact directly with the internal UTC date/time value ofany Date() object. Or maybe for every Date Object to have a property that made it work either in UTC or in LCT? >That way we could define functions,that would work both for local time as for UTC: Note that an algorithm correct for all LCT is correct for UTC (because sometimes LTC is UTC), but an algorithm correct for UTC is not necessarily correct for all LTC. >dateObj.getVarDate() I know it exists in IE6 & IE7, but I've never investigated what it is for. "replied upon" ?? Indeed - relied upon? Opera is 9.25. -- (c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v6.05 IE 6. Web