DOM Problems

[kendalk08]

This post is for those struggling to figure out why there Drop Down
Menus and other scripts are not working using th DOM.

There are slight DOM problems with ONMOUSEOVER and ONMOUSEOUT events
of parent and child elements. When the child element fires its
ONMOUSEOVER event it also fires the ONMMOUSEOUT event. When this
happens you get a canceling of script (Like using timers for
instance). Because of this you have to check to make sure you are
still in the parent element to keep its ONMOUSEOUT event from firing.

For more information on this topic view: http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/1606.

To view a site that is using this script go here:
http://www.nwtechonline.com/~kendalk...ls/index2.html.
To view the non-working site with almost the same script go here:
http://www.nwtechonline.com/~kendalk...ls/index2.html.

Kendal Knabe

[David Mark]

On Dec 10, 11:08 am, kendalk08 <[e-mail]:

[snip]

>
To view a site that is using this script go here:http://www.nwtechonline.com/~kendalk...ls/index2.html.

It is worth noting that your primary navigation interface is unusable
without a mouse. It also breaks completely when scripting is
disabled. You might as well have used CSS menus.

[Randy Webb]

David Mark said the following on 12/10/2007 11:16 AM:

On Dec 10, 11:08 am, kendalk08 <[e-mail]:

[snip]

>To view a site that is using this script go here:http://www.nwtechonline.com/~kendalk...ls/index2.html.

It is worth noting that your primary navigation interface is unusable
without a mouse.

It is unusable without a pointing device. A mouse isn't the only
pointing device available.

It also breaks completely when scripting is disabled.

People who disable scripting (after they figure out how) remind me of
Netscape 4 users.

You might as well have used CSS menus.

Yeah, we know you can't disable CSS, right?

--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/index.html
Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/

[kendalk08]

On Dec 10, 10:51 am, Randy Webb <[e-mail]:

David Mark said the following on 12/10/2007 11:16 AM:

On Dec 10, 11:08 am, kendalk08 <[e-mail]:

[snip]

To view a site that is using this script go here:http://www.nwtechonline.com/~kendalk...ls/index2.html.

It is worth noting that your primary navigation interface is unusable
without a mouse.

It is unusable without a pointing device. A mouse isn't the only
pointing device available.

It also breaks completely when scripting is disabled.

People who disable scripting (after they figure out how) remind me of
Netscape 4 users.

You might as well have used CSS menus.

Yeah, we know you can't disable CSS, right?

--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind
comp.lang.javascript FAQ -http://jibbering.com/faq/index.html
Javascript Best Practices -http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/

I know of the limitations of this effect. My menu is not in the
question. This was just a post to help those struggling with the same
issue I was The DOM, because I have seen several places that that was
the issue.

[Randy Webb]

kendalk08 said the following on 12/10/2007 11:58 AM:

On Dec 10, 10:51 am, Randy Webb <[e-mail]:

>David Mark said the following on 12/10/2007 11:16 AM:

>>On Dec 10, 11:08 am, kendalk08 <[e-mail]:
[snip]
To view a site that is using this script go here:http://www.nwtechonline.com/~kendalk...ls/index2.html.
It is worth noting that your primary navigation interface is unusable
without a mouse.

It is unusable without a pointing device. A mouse isn't the only
pointing device available.

>>It also breaks completely when scripting is disabled.

People who disable scripting (after they figure out how) remind me of
Netscape 4 users.

>>You might as well have used CSS menus.

Yeah, we know you can't disable CSS, right?

<snip>

I know of the limitations of this effect.

I didn't say anything about that.

My menu is not in the question.

Anything you post is open to be discussed.

This was just a post to help those struggling with the same
issue I was The DOM, because I have seen several places that that was
the issue.

Perhaps you wanted to reply to David and not me as David is the one that
mentioned your script, not me.

--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/index.html
Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/

[David Mark]

On Dec 10, 11:51 am, Randy Webb <[e-mail]:

David Mark said the following on 12/10/2007 11:16 AM:

On Dec 10, 11:08 am, kendalk08 <[e-mail]:

[snip]

To view a site that is using this script go here:http://www.nwtechonline.com/~kendalk...ls/index2.html.

It is worth noting that your primary navigation interface is unusable
without a mouse.

It is unusable without a pointing device. A mouse isn't the only
pointing device available.

Right.

>

It also breaks completely when scripting is disabled.

People who disable scripting (after they figure out how) remind me of
Netscape 4 users.

Some people don't have a choice and some agents don't feature
scripting at all.

>

You might as well have used CSS menus.

Yeah, we know you can't disable CSS, right?

I am not advocating CSS-only menus. But when CSS is disabled, the
links used to make up the menus should still work. So it would be
slightly better than the OP's current approach, where disabling JS
results in dead links.

[kendalk08]

On Dec 10, 11:03 am, Randy Webb <[e-mail]:

kendalk08 said the following on 12/10/2007 11:58 AM:

On Dec 10, 10:51 am, Randy Webb <[e-mail]:

David Mark said the following on 12/10/2007 11:16 AM:

>On Dec 10, 11:08 am, kendalk08 <[e-mail]:
[snip]
To view a site that is using this script go here:http://www.nwtechonline.com/~kendalk...ls/index2.html.
It is worth noting that your primary navigation interface is unusable
without a mouse.
It is unusable without a pointing device. A mouse isn't the only
pointing device available.

>It also breaks completely when scripting is disabled.
People who disable scripting (after they figure out how) remind me of
Netscape 4 users.

>You might as well have used CSS menus.
Yeah, we know you can't disable CSS, right?

<snip>

I know of the limitations of this effect.

I didn't say anything about that.

My menu is not in the question.

Anything you post is open to be discussed.

This was just a post to help those struggling with the same
issue I was The DOM, because I have seen several places that that was
the issue.

Perhaps you wanted to reply to David and not me as David is the one that
mentioned your script, not me.

--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind
comp.lang.javascript FAQ -http://jibbering.com/faq/index.html
Javascript Best Practices -http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/

Sorry about that. I didn't mean for that message to be for you. I
would use a css menu except that someone that doesn't know anything
about HTML, Javascript, etc. can not change the menu. In Javascript i
can make it simple for someone that doesn't know coding to change the
menu. The original menu I worked off of is http://www.alvaschools.com/.
It is also Javascript.

[David Mark]

On Dec 10, 11:58 am, kendalk08 <[e-mail]:
[snip]

>
I know of the limitations of this effect. My menu is not in the

You apparently replied to the wrong post.

question. This was just a post to help those struggling with the same

I would say your menu script is highly questionable, which is why I
mentioned its design issues.

[David Mark]

kendalk08 wrote:
[snip]

>
Sorry about that. I didn't mean for that message to be for you. I
would use a css menu except that someone that doesn't know anything
about HTML, Javascript, etc. can not change the menu. In Javascript i

It seems to me that you wouldn't have to know JS to update the content
of an HTML page. As far as CSS menus go, you wouldn't have to do
anything but update the markup. Someone who is unable to update HTML
markup is probably not the best candidate to work on your pages.

can make it simple for someone that doesn't know coding to change the
menu. The original menu I worked off of is http://www.alvaschools.com/.
It is also Javascript.

When you turn off JavaScript, the entire menu disappears and is
replaced by the message: "Your browser does not support script."
That's what users of aural (or text-based) browsers will first hear
(or see) on entering your page. Furthermore, keyboard users cannot
navigate your site, even with JavaScript. Suffice to say that
whomever was responsible for the original menu did not know what they
were doing. It follows that you shouldn't have replicated their
effort. You would have been better off using the example I gave you
in the previous thread about your menus.

[Randy Webb]

kendalk08 said the following on 12/10/2007 12:10 PM:

<snip>

I would use a css menu except that someone that doesn't know anything
about HTML, Javascript, etc. can not change the menu.

The thought of someone modifying Javascript code that doesn't know
anything about Javascript and/or HTML is a worrisome thought. Especially
the code in the alvaschools site. Are they supposed to be able to know
what HighSubBgColor is supposed to do? The comment says:

Background color when mouse is over on subs

Hell, that confuses *me* and I know what it is.

Just curious, but what are BeforeStart, AfterBuild, BeforeFirstOpen and
AfterCloseAll supposed to be for? They don't do anything.

In Javascript i can make it simple for someone that doesn't know
coding to change the menu.

It is equally trivial to allow them to modify a CSS driven menu.
I would dare say it is a lot easier.

The original menu I worked off of is http://www.alvaschools.com/.
It is also Javascript.

I think that before you start trying to make things "easier" on the
editors, you should understand what it is that you are trying to make
"easier".

--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/index.html
Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/

[Randy Webb]

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn said the following on 12/11/2007 7:48 PM:

Randy Webb wrote:

>David Mark said the following on 12/10/2007 11:16 AM:

>>It also breaks completely when scripting is disabled.

People who disable scripting (after they figure out how) remind me of
Netscape 4 users.

I have said it before: people may not have the choice.

"People who disable scripting (after they figure out how)"

Now, people who "may not have the choice" won't be going and disabling
it on there own. That rules them out of my group of people.

IOW, they may not need to do anything to their user agent for it not to
support client-side scripting (fully).

Can you name a main stream browser that is script disabled by default?

That includes, but is not limited to, UAs that don't
provide the support in the first place.

If the UA doesn't provide it, then the user won't very well be disabling
it now would they? That must rule those people out of the group I was
referring to.

But, just to be fair, and try to satisfy your pedantic desires, let me
rephrase what I wrote:

"People who knowingly, and willingly, disable scripting (after they
figure out how), remind me of Netscape 4 users."

Now, all you have to do is get a simple decent grasp of what I think of
when I talk about "Netscape 4 users" and I doubt you do.

Simply put? You don't have a clue what I meant.

PointedEars

Fix your signature and you might gain a little credibility.

--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/index.html
Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/