Legal copy of ECMA-262 papers - clarification please

[VK]

I'm a bit confused about ECMAScript docs.

Can I legally change it format (say from .pdf to .html or .doc) or
publish it on my web-site?

ECMA provides a free of charge pdf version here:
<http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-262.htm>
but I don't see any "terms of use" (probably because I'm looking in a
wrong place).

From the other side ECMAScript specs registered as ISO/IEC 16262 in ISO

and provided for download for 224 Swiss Frank:
<http://www.iso.org/iso/en/CatalogueDetailPage.CatalogueDetail?CSNUMBER=33835 >

?

[VK]

I guess it answers on one of my questions:
<http://developer.mozilla.org/js/specs/ecma-262>

Still ISO issue is not clear. Is it a trap for free-copy unaware
visitors? Or there are some small legal twists I don't know of?

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

VK wrote:

Can I legally change it format (say from .pdf to .html or .doc) or
publish it on my web-site?
Probably not, and I don't understand why you need to. However, this is a
question better be asked in a newsgroup dealing with jurisdiction, not one
dealing with programming. IOW: Completely off-topic here.
ECMA provides a free of charge pdf version here:
<http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-262.htm>
And mozilla.org provides the most up-to-date version here:

<http://www.mozilla.org/js/language/>
but I don't see any "terms of use" (probably because I'm looking in a
wrong place).
,-<http://www.mozilla.org/js/language/E262-3.pdf>; pp. 191, 192
|
| Printed copies can be ordered from:
| ECMA
| 114 Rue du Rhône
| CH-1204 Geneva
| Switzerland
|
| Fax: [phone]
| Internet: do*******@ecma.ch
|
| Files can be downloaded from our FTP site, ftp.ecma.ch. This Standard is
| available from library ECMA-ST as a compacted, self-expanding file in
| MSWord 6.0 format (file E262-DOC.EXE) and as an Acrobat PDF file (file
| E262-PDF.PDF). File E262-EXP.TXT gives a short presentation of the
| Standard.
|
| Our web site, http://www.ecma.ch, gives full information on ECMA, ECMA
| activities, ECMA Standards and Technical Reports.
| _____
| ECMA
| 114 Rue du Rhône
| CH-1204 Geneva
| Switzerland
|
| This Standard ECMA-262 is available free of charge in printed form and
| as a file.
|
| See inside cover page for instructions

From the other side ECMAScript specs registered as ISO/IEC 16262 in ISO
and provided for download for 224 Swiss Frank:

<http://www.iso.org/iso/en/CatalogueDetailPage.CatalogueDetail?CSNUMBER=33835 >
?

That's the _paper_ version, the price probably including printing/copying
as well as general shipping costs.
PointedEars, IANAL

[Julian Turner]

VK wrote:

I guess it answers on one of my questions:
<http://developer.mozilla.org/js/specs/ecma-262>

Still ISO issue is not clear. Is it a trap for free-copy unaware
visitors? Or there are some small legal twists I don't know of?

The ECMA web site states:-

"Ecma Standards and Technical Reports are made available to all
interested persons or organizations, free of charge and copyright, in
printed form and, as files in Acrobat ® PDF format."

Julian

[VK]

> The ECMA web site states:-

"Ecma Standards and Technical Reports are made available to all
interested persons or organizations, free of charge and copyright, in
printed form and, as files in Acrobat ® PDF format."

Got it completely now with a help of some of my friends.

You can make any copies of ECMA docs, but your copy is not legally
valid in the meaning that you cannot reference to it as a definitive
proof. You should place a disclosure like one on
<http://developer.mozilla.org/js/specs/ecma-262> ("Should be correct,
but some errors still could happen, blah-blah-blah")

224 franks to ISO - it's the price for verified legal copy. You can
publish it (if HTML ordered) on your site and refer instead of ECMA
site if you want to, w/o any disclosures.

Thanks to all responses.

And yes, I guess it is somehow connected with this newsgroup.

[Michael Winter]

On 17/11/2005 15:29, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

VK wrote:

Can I legally change it format (say from .pdf to .html or .doc) or
publish it on my web-site?

[...] this is a question better be asked in a newsgroup dealing with
jurisdiction, not one dealing with programming. [...]

I'd have thought it was a question better addressed to ECMA, itself. It
would be the kind and courteous thing to do, at least.

ECMA provides a free of charge pdf version [...]

So? It's their publication, so they can distribute it as they see fit.
That doesn't necessarily mean you can do likewise.

That said, there is a statement in the overview of their standards[1]:

Ecma Standards and Technical Reports are made available to all
interested persons or organizations, free of charge and copyright,
in printed form and, as files in Acrobat ® PDF format.

The phrase, "free of [...] copyright" says, to me, public domain. Still,
it's not presented as an authoritative statement, so I'd ask.

[snip]

Mike
[1] <http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/index.html>

--
Michael Winter
Prefix subject with [News] before replying by e-mail.

[Julian Turner]

Michael Winter wrote:

[snip]

The phrase, "free of [...] copyright" says, to me, public domain. Still,
it's not presented as an authoritative statement, so I'd ask.

It certainly reads as an open statement, and is in fact the only
statement on the subject I could find on the web site, which IMO gives
it more authority. But I would agree about asking, at least for reuse
in a commercial context.

In particular, again IMO, one might have more confidence in freely
redistributing the spec as a whole in its original pdf form. However I
would be circumspect about adapting it or reproducing or reusing parts
of it in a commercial context, and at the very least would make sure
that any usage is clearly identified as an extract and again properly
attributed.

Julian

[VK]

I used ECMA's online form (no public e-mail provided)

Dear Sirs,

[ I'm writing you in the relation of ECMAScript specifications
(ECMA-262). Does your statement "Standards and Technical Reports are
made available to all interested persons or organizations, free of
charge and copyright" mean that I can freely convert the original PDF
version in another electronic form as well as include it in a
commercial product?

Best regards, ... ]

Wondering now if anyone answers :-)

[Paul Cooper]

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 16:29:23 +0100, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
<Po*********@web.de> wrote:

That's the _paper_ version, the price probably including printing/copying
as well as general shipping costs.
PointedEars, IANAL

I don't know the business model of ECMA, but I do know that ISO charge
for standards as a means of funding the standards activity. ISO
standards are copyright and may not be redistributed, unless
explicitly stated otherwise. This business model may not be tenable in
the future, as certain types of standards become tied to particular
databases - for example, a standard defining an XML schema (e.g. ISO
19126) is of little use if the schema is not freely accessible by
validation routines.

Paul